Yeah it "dates" to 80's and that has nothing do with touchscreens. You cannot patent a hand gesture obviously.
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Samsung's 'Infringe First and Stall as Long as Possible' Strategies Are Nothing New
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Yeah it "dates" to 80's and that has nothing do with touchscreens. You cannot patent a hand gesture obviously.
You gotta love the people that think they can prove prior art on a patent when all they read is a shorthand title given by the media.
There's nothing sad about it. That's totally allowed. And most certainly this is not a situation where people have to support Apple and Samsung on 50% of all Apple vs Samsung arguments. You can support Apple on 5% of all arguments, and Samsung on 95% of all arguments, or vice versa. If two people are arguing all the time, one of them can be actually correct 95% of the time.
If you want to show bias, you can do it another way. Just look at the posters frequency to post in situations where one of the companies is "proven" to be wrong/right. If one poster is supporting a company where it's proven to be right, but does not do it for the other company, then the poster is biased.
But as long as there's no proof for any side, you can take sides and that's just the posters prerogative.
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Before Samsung had anything worth buying, Compaq used to to make a device called iPaq (released on April 2000) running Microsoft Pocket PC OS. That device definitely had copy/paste and also could play videos and stream videos and if it had an integrated phone it would support MMS (on or before 2005).
Also, the discussion here is about Samsung, not Android.
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They are not capable of that, it doesn't fit their business model.
Scroll down multi touch screen with pinch to zoom . Oh yeah it wasnt a smartphone some innovation .
And again apple claims it copies to way of working not the exact tech .
Apple copied just like samsung .
Sorry, I thought you were referring to Apple in that first paragraph.
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Perhaps you should actually read my comment before implying I don't believe the allegations to be true.
The entire argument against samsung is they ripped of the gestures that make the iphone work , yet those gestures have been around and used in electronic products before apple used it .
Apple saw this and implemented it on tech they didnt even make , sorry i can see the innovation that can be patented here . Its silly to say because its a capacative screen its any different .
I have a distinct feeling that if the shoe was on YOUR foot (i.e. Samesung was stealing an idea that you had spent years developing) you might feel different about the "everyone steals so it's no biggie" attitude.
How many judgements has Samsung won (of consequence?)?. Why is that? Is it because they have found a loophole of sorts (pointed out by this article) wherein they can steal and basically get away with it? For that I actually applaud them. If it's cheaper to settle out of court than do your own R&D, you wouldn't be crazy to do so (even if it would make you scummy). They have obviously chosen that route, and it is what it is.
The difference is, instead of being on the DEfensive, Apple is on the OFFensive. That's a big difference in public perception of who the "thief" is.
I agree wholeheartedly that no one is "innocent", but that doesn't mean that certain parties aren't FAR more guilty than others. Just because Apple didn't invent the phone (sorry) doesn't mean you can deny that prior to the iPhone the "smartphone" industry in general was stagnant and largely dominated by *gasp* BlackBerry. There were VERY few Samesung phones in the wild in 2007. Until they started copying the iPhone.
So assign blame however you want, but Samesung is most definitely guilty of ip theft. And even if we agree that "everyone does it", they do MORE of it, and articles like this prove that point.
Anyone that argues the first Galaxy wasn't a BLATANT copy of the iPhone has zero credibility in any argument going forward. You can still like the new Galaxy phones (I do too...) but that point, the point that they all derive from an outright attempt to steal a phone almost in its entirety, is inarguable.
It is what it is. No fanboy crazyness required.
How many judgements has Samsung won (of consequence?)?. Why is that? Is it because they have found a loophole of sorts (pointed out by this article) wherein they can steal and basically get away with it? For that I actually applaud them. If it's cheaper to settle out of court than do your own R&D, you wouldn't be crazy to do so (even if it would make you scummy). They have obviously chosen that route, and it is what it is.
The difference is, instead of being on the DEfensive, Apple is on the OFFensive. That's a big difference in public perception of who the "thief" is.
I agree wholeheartedly that no one is "innocent", but that doesn't mean that certain parties aren't FAR more guilty than others. Just because Apple didn't invent the phone (sorry) doesn't mean you can deny that prior to the iPhone the "smartphone" industry in general was stagnant and largely dominated by *gasp* BlackBerry. There were VERY few Samesung phones in the wild in 2007. Until they started copying the iPhone.
So assign blame however you want, but Samesung is most definitely guilty of ip theft. And even if we agree that "everyone does it", they do MORE of it, and articles like this prove that point.
Anyone that argues the first Galaxy wasn't a BLATANT copy of the iPhone has zero credibility in any argument going forward. You can still like the new Galaxy phones (I do too...) but that point, the point that they all derive from an outright attempt to steal a phone almost in its entirety, is inarguable.
It is what it is. No fanboy crazyness required.
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Exactly my point. Samsung is a great company when it fulfills Apple's needs and my own wants via Apple. It can sound a bit hypocritical, can't it? But you knew that already.
as well as being designed and built in Britain and exported back to Japan...and the rest of the world.
No, that's not the entire argument. It's just an oversimplified argument that you find easier to dismiss.
Probably because you didn't read or understand the patent claims. Apple did not patent pinch to zoom on a capacitive screen.
Which was later decided by the same judge that it was without prejudice. $1 is a fair rate considering Motorola wanted to charge 2.25% per device which came out to $12/device. That's 12x the amount Motorola charges others for the same patents.
In a separate case, Motorola's vs Microsoft, it was found Moto's SEP in question was only valued at a few cents.
So you think $12/device is fair? Apple was willing to pay a fair rate, but Motorola went ahead with an injunction against Apple anyway, which resulted into the European Commission threatening Motorola with a fine.
Samsung tried to pull the same BS and was threatened with a fine too. They crawled back to the cave from which they came and avoided the fine by promising a 5 year period of no litigation based on SEP.
It's Motorola and Samsung that's trying to stifle competition by abusing their SEPs , not Apple.
So Scruff, are you this much interested to know who provided the brushes and paint when you buy a drawing? Or where does the baker get the flour for the bread you eat? My guess is Apple have paid every $ for any Samsung parts so really this argument is a bit old. Samsung is not doing Apple any more favour Apple then what it is getting.
Looks like most people here never used Android. My wife has an iPhone and I found it too locked for my use.
- With the iPhone I don't have filesystem access, I can't move files easily to external media like I do with my Note N7000 by just plugging a cheap "on-the-go" USB cable. I can't even create folders and organize my libraries following MY criteria and not the App's criterion.
- Swype-like keyboards. I can type very fast with my phone, something I can't do with the iPhone's small screen and its dumb virtual keyboard.
- My browsing experience is pretty nice with a big screen and a lot of browser options, including Firefox, Chrome, Opera and the native one which is very good.
- This big 5" phone fits comfortably in 90% of my standard, classic jeans pockets. Only in the more austere, higher waistband ones, it doesn't fit very well but I can carry it anyway. I don't see any reason for not having a phone which allows me living without a tablet while it gives me an almost-tablet experience every time.
In short, all of this whinning sounds like pure and empty fanboyism. I love the design of Mac products (I'm not so in love with the retina Macbook, though, but until then I only had a very good experience), but the truth is, there is not a big winner in the smartphone market. I can enumerate several advantages of having a Samsung Galaxy phone over the iPhone, and you'll probably counter-argument with iPhone advantages, but this shows there isn't a clearly winner in this market.
- With the iPhone I don't have filesystem access, I can't move files easily to external media like I do with my Note N7000 by just plugging a cheap "on-the-go" USB cable. I can't even create folders and organize my libraries following MY criteria and not the App's criterion.
- Swype-like keyboards. I can type very fast with my phone, something I can't do with the iPhone's small screen and its dumb virtual keyboard.
- My browsing experience is pretty nice with a big screen and a lot of browser options, including Firefox, Chrome, Opera and the native one which is very good.
- This big 5" phone fits comfortably in 90% of my standard, classic jeans pockets. Only in the more austere, higher waistband ones, it doesn't fit very well but I can carry it anyway. I don't see any reason for not having a phone which allows me living without a tablet while it gives me an almost-tablet experience every time.
In short, all of this whinning sounds like pure and empty fanboyism. I love the design of Mac products (I'm not so in love with the retina Macbook, though, but until then I only had a very good experience), but the truth is, there is not a big winner in the smartphone market. I can enumerate several advantages of having a Samsung Galaxy phone over the iPhone, and you'll probably counter-argument with iPhone advantages, but this shows there isn't a clearly winner in this market.
Oh boy....this is sure to incite calm, rational discussion
I hope eventually it will result in calm, rational discussion about "look and feel" patents, and their cousins- things like "a method for turning a finger gesture into something happening on a screen".
One way is to get rid of "look and feel" and focus on actual technology.
Apple is using the system, and Samsung is abusing it and getting away with it. But, the net result is that smaller players can't compete.
Agree 100%. The system needs to be fixed. But, Apple is using the system-- it is up to "us" to modify the system into something rational, so that it is objectively clear whether or not an "invention" has actually been used/copied.
Me too.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and always has been. To imitate is not to steal. Patents exist to encourage people to spend their time and money inventing new technologies. Using the patent system to try to stop imitation is patent abuse, IMHO.
Thank you for rehashing a bunch of old and tired arguments about why you prefer Android in a thread in which they have little or no relevance. It's just what this thread needed!
I have a distinct feeling that if the shoe was on YOUR foot (i.e. Samesung was stealing an idea that you had spent years developing) you might feel different about the "everyone steals so it's no biggie" attitude.
How many judgements has Samsung won (of consequence?)?. Why is that? Is it because they have found a loophole of sorts (pointed out by this article) wherein they can steal and basically get away with it? For that I actually applaud them. If it's cheaper to settle out of court than do your own R&D, you wouldn't be crazy to do so (even if it would make you scummy). They have obviously chosen that route, and it is what it is.
The difference is, instead of being on the DEfensive, Apple is on the OFFensive. That's a big difference in public perception of who the "thief" is.
I agree wholeheartedly that no one is "innocent", but that doesn't mean that certain parties aren't FAR more guilty than others. Just because Apple didn't invent the phone (sorry) doesn't mean you can deny that prior to the iPhone the "smartphone" industry in general was stagnant and largely dominated by *gasp* BlackBerry. There were VERY few Samesung phones in the wild in 2007. Until they started copying the iPhone.
So assign blame however you want, but Samesung is most definitely guilty of ip theft. And even if we agree that "everyone does it", they do MORE of it, and articles like this prove that point.
Anyone that argues the first Galaxy wasn't a BLATANT copy of the iPhone has zero credibility in any argument going forward. You can still like the new Galaxy phones (I do too...) but that point, the point that they all derive from an outright attempt to steal a phone almost in its entirety, is inarguable.
It is what it is. No fanboy crazyness required.
So "they do MORE of it". Could it be because they simply do (as in "produce") way more than everybody else? Take Apple. With their line of all of a 5 products they don't need to steal much, don't they? And for these products (laptop, desktop, phone, tablet and MP3 player) it looks like Apple actually got sued for infrindgement more than Samsung was (and Samsung was sued mostly by Apple). Weird, right?
You are just not getting the point. Of course there is a lot of copying going on. Different features and design elements become popular and are mimicked. Some fundamental technology becomes a standard. However, what this article and many people defending this law suit have been saying is that Samsung has made it their entire strategy to outright clone popular products as their way of gaining entry to a new market.
There was NOTHING like the iPhone before it came out and Samsung as they have done many times before to other companies in other markets outright stole the entire design. Based on the pattern, they clearly do this as a strategy with the idea that they draw out the legal battles and expect their cost in the end to be worth the market share they gain. Once again, it worked and for those who understand what is going on here it is despicable. You can hate Apple and still understand why they are right here.
If I was truly against what the other company represented, yes I would find alternatives. If I am truly against slave labor, I won't buy those companies products. Of course Apple has paid Samsung, it has nothing to do with favors. Several users have made the statement that they won't buy any Samsung products and many have stated they hope they go out of business. But boy, I love my Apple products with those Samsung components. If you don't see the hypocrisy there, so be it. My posts haven't been in defense of Samsung, I was replying to a specif post.