Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Patents hinder innovation, it is something that really needs reformed as whole. Apple hardly invents anything, but rather they put existing hardware together in ways that provides what they believe is a seamless user experience. Apple pretty much needs patents to survive because the only thing they have that's unique is their software and some small bits of specialty hardware that make up their devices.

Samsung saw the emerging market apple helped build and built a business model around it. It happens every day in other markets.

Whether its scummy or not doesn't really matter, it's business and if theres money to be made some one will make it.
 
I didn't say it wasn't allowed, I said it was sad. And it is. A person should base their arguments on who is right and who is wrong, not whether or not their favorite company is on one side or the other.

And that's exactly what everyone is doing, most of the time. Please realise that most discussions about Apple vs Samsung are completely based on opinions and there's no proof for either side being right or wrong.

----------

Scroll down multi touch screen with pinch to zoom . Oh yeah it wasnt a smartphone some innovation .

And again apple claims it copies to way of working not the exact tech .

Apple copied just like samsung .

The first video of an actual pinch to zoom comes in the 2006 TED talk, which is much much later than Fingerworks actually implementing it, which Apple bought in 2005.

Don't forget that the videos can date further back than 2007 as long as they don't precede Fingerworks.
 
- With the iPhone I don't have filesystem access, I can't move files easily to external media like I do with my Note N7000 by just plugging a cheap "on-the-go" USB cable. I can't even create folders and organize my libraries following MY criteria and not the App's criterion.

USB Cables to get to the filesystem works just fine, you just need a 3rd party app to help you do it, Apple doesn't support it. As for the Folders, you sure can, you just drag them together and change the name to anything you want.

- Swype-like keyboards. I can type very fast with my phone, something I can't do with the iPhone's small screen and its dumb virtual keyboard.
Swype is patented; so either they have to buy the rights to use it, or steal it. Neither are really in their best interest.

- My browsing experience is pretty nice with a big screen and a lot of browser options, including Firefox, Chrome, Opera and the native one which is very good.
Lots of browers now on iPhone. Bigger screens coming.

- This big 5" phone fits comfortably in 90% of my standard, classic jeans pockets. Only in the more austere, higher waistband ones, it doesn't fit very well but I can carry it anyway. I don't see any reason for not having a phone which allows me living without a tablet while it gives me an almost-tablet experience every time.
Ok, bigger screen, it's coming.

In short, all of this whinning sounds like pure and empty fanboyism. I love the design of Mac products (I'm not so in love with the retina Macbook, though, but until then I only had a very good experience), but the truth is, there is not a big winner in the smartphone market. I can enumerate several advantages of having a Samsung Galaxy phone over the iPhone, and you'll probably counter-argument with iPhone advantages, but this shows there isn't a clearly winner in this market.
Don't care what anyone uses either, use whatever makes you happy is my motto. But don't spread fud. Only thing you can say is you want a bigger screen. Ok, the market for a bigger screen seems to be there and Apple appears to be addressing it. They do so when they feel there is a market for it; previously there wasn't a huge one otherwise they would have gone for it. If nothing, Apple is REALLY good at giving a product that gives easy to use features for MOST people; not necessarily one for "everyone".
 
If I was truly against what the other company represented, yes I would find alternatives. If I am truly against slave labor, I won't buy those companies products. Of course Apple has paid Samsung, it has nothing to do with favors. Several users have made the statement that they won't buy any Samsung products and many have stated they hope they go out of business. But boy, I love my Apple products with those Samsung components. If you don't see the hypocrisy there, so be it. My posts haven't been in defense of Samsung, I was replying to a specif post. :)

I don't find anything wrong about this. If Samsung went out of business, Apple would simply change vendors. Samsung isn't the only vendor that can manufacture SSD's or displays. So you can at the same time hope that Samsung goes out of business (I don't since I own Samsung branded gadgets and like them) and like how much the stuff they manufacture helps build your favourite Apple product.

So there's no hypocrisy there.

Also you can say you are against slave labor and still buy and use computers made by the same companies that use slave labor, because you have to. There's no living in the modern world without owning a phone or a computer. Computers are not luxury goods that you can choose to buy or not.

On the other hand, if you say you are against blood diamonds, and then actually buy a diamond, that makes you a hypocrite.
 
Now look who is making accusations without knowing a person. I must say that I know quite a bit about the products that I purchase. It's actually a point of pride for me that stay in the loop as much as possible to make sure that I'm not buying from unethical companies. I was quite critical of Apple when the whole Foxconn issue was happening, and I feel quite satisfied with the steps that they have taken to monitor and audit their manufacturing partners, as well as newer initiatives to provide environmental reports, build green facilities, and more.

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with what this guy purchased. I agree that many people are unaware of where their products come from, and that is a shame. As I said, I try my best to research everything that I purchase, but I'm not perfect. My hope is that the broader population would take interest in researching what these companies are doing. My comment about ethics was based on the fact that he doesn't seem to care as long as the end product is great—consequences be damned—and I believe that pretty well qualifies him as lacking in the ethics department. One of my biggest pet peeves are people who willfully choose to be ignorant—especially when so much information is available freely online and only takes mere seconds to search for.

As for my signature, I see that you're fairly new to this site. That's ok, and welcome. We discuss technology here, among a variety of other topics. But mainly technology and specifically Apple technology. In my signature I have listed a sampling of the technology that I use in my daily life as a web, app, and print designer and photographer. I use said technology to provide income for my family. In my field it is important to stay aware of new technology or risk becoming irrelevant. What would you have me place there instead? Stats about how much money I've donated to charity, or how many people I've personally helped over the course of my life? That is a rather weak argument that my signature on a tech forum dictates my priorities in life. Lots of people on here list their gear, especially back in the old days when the primary discussion was Macs (I lurked here going back to 2003-04 before finally creating an account because I had some inside information to share about the original iPhone launch). Having a signature that contains the technology that I use provides context when I'm writing about certain issues on the forum, especially since I sometimes forget to list in my response what I have as it is often important to certain discussions. And honestly I only stuck the Xbox on there so that people wouldn't think I'm a total fanboy. I do enjoy other technology and I'm a little bit of a gamer. But if I'm following the logic of your response, I should list off everything I've accomplished in life instead to prove my worth or something? On an Apple website? That would be odd and frankly rather self-centered. I try to live a somewhat private life (I'm not on FB, for instance), especially when it comes to listing life accomplishments or good works. The whole "For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." mindset, you know? I'll keep my signature for now, thank you. Again, this is a technology site and I make a decent living using said technology. I don't define myself with my MacRumors account information.

Finally on to your last point. I know these big companies are out there to make money and don't care about my opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's capitalism. But when I see a company openly being unethical, I vote with my dollars and share my opinion on the matter with those who aren't educated on the matter. I'm well known by friends, family and coworkers as the guy they come to for tech advice when they are looking to purchase. I have my own small sphere of influence, and in turn those people have their own spheres of influence. I call it like I see it. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic that people will educate themselves—and not just on what companies are doing. I'm far more worried about what governments are doing to stifle freedom and other social issues. I spend a fraction of the time on here compared to the time I spend on other forums ranging from a variety of topics—politics, privacy issues, net neutrality, family, and others related to my trade such as photography and design.

In closing, Samsung doesn't hold a candle to the human rights abuses that go on around the world, but this isn't the proper forum to discuss such matters. The only reason I'm even bothering with this response is that it amazes me that people see an entity being openly unethical and think it's somehow OK. I'm of the mindset that if you give these guys (governments, corporations, etc) an inch they'll take a yard. Or sometimes a mile! Best to put our foot down once we see the offense happen so that we can remain a free, peaceful and respectable society. This applies to all ethics violations. Nobody caring is how things get out of control.

Nicely said. I do have to apologize however. I framed my response to elicit the exact reaction you gave. The point? No one likes to be judged unfairly. You didn't like me doing it to you and I'm pretty sure he didn't like it either. Neither was right, and again I apologize for my snap judgement. His priorities may not align with yours. Perhaps he cares more about some other issue. That doesn't make him unethical. Calling someone ethics into question goes far beyond the scope of consumer products. It goes to the heart of who they are as a person.
 
Patents hinder innovation

Some might disagree and say patents protect innovation. What motivation is there to create something new and release it to the public if someone else is going to just steal your idea (that they would probably never have thought of on their own ever) and make a ton of money off of it? The only thing small-time patent holders CAN do is sue. They can't compete with companies like Apple and Samsung, yet they often get labeled "patent trolls" right along with companies that buy them only to sue with them because they DARED to INVENT an idea and have Samsung just peruse through the patent files for new ideas to steal. I mean WTF is the point of a patent if it doesn't protect you from big companies trying to steal your ideas? This happened to the guy that invented delay windshield wipers. They just stole his idea, paid him NOTHING and went on their merry way. It took a LONG time for the courts to do something about it and in most cases, they probably do NOTHING because the person can't afford the litigation in court to begin with. Yeah, you're probably better off just letting your idea for the Warp Drive rot because if you tell anyone, you'll get ripped off sooner or later.

On the other side of the coin, there needs to be real limits to what can be patented. Software patents are insane. Just the opposite or regular patents, they are typically VAGUE, ABSTRACT ideas of a layout or flow diagram that covers almost anything imaginable. Being able to imagine a cell phone "working" like the TV watch thing in Dick Tracy is one thing. Being able to actually make it work is quite another! And that IMO is the difference between software patents and hardware patents. Actual computer code would be akin to a true hardware patent. But that's covered under copyright laws. But people say that's not enough since the idea is what matters. Yeah, but there are more than one way to skin a cat. There was a patent for the cotton gin, but IF someone could have made their own device that did the same thing but through a different METHOD, it would have been granted as well. After all, cotton was hand separated for the cotton gin was invented so the IDEA of WHAT the cotton gin did was not creative or inventive or anything of the sort. HOW the machine separated the cotton from the seed is what was patented. So instead of an iPhone layout that talks about "downloading information across a network" giving you patent control over EVER SINGLE CELL PHONE EVER MADE THEREAFTER, you would have to have a specific METHOD to do that (i.e. like Xmodem or Kermit or ZModem on the old modems to download; all separate methods to do the same thing!) That is the real problem with software patents and the like. It's also a problem if there's only one possible way to do something (i.e. patent contains using certain airwaves to transmit; well there's only so much bandwidth out there so that part shouldn't be covered).
 
I'm confused. What phone is the iPhone and what phone is the Galaxy S? :confused:

I'm confused. What phone is the iPhone and what phone is the Galaxy S? :confused:

The cheap looking one with big colored battery and Bluetooth icons at the top and dim looking icons seemly, poorly designed with the extra 2 buttons at the bottom of the phone. Yup, that one. IF you cant tell, you are exactly the customer Samsung is after!
 
Thank you for rehashing a bunch of old and tired arguments about why you prefer Android in a thread in which they have little or no relevance. It's just what this thread needed!

Yep, this thread need arguments saying that Samsung is always copying and Apple is always innovating.
 
Obviously they did it to bias any viewer. Here's an actual comparison of size and homescreens:

View attachment 471239

That image makes the same mistake as it's not the same model. It seems odd to point out the mistake in the previous image, then produce another image with another mistake, only this time shifting the bias in the other direction.
 
That image makes the same mistake as it's not the same model. It seems odd to point out the mistake in the previous image, then produce another image with another mistake, only this time shifting the bias in the other direction.

It is exactly the same Galaxy S model
 
Ah, yes, the 4 was bigger or smaller than the 3GS?

It has a different front panel that looks less similar to the 3GS. The point was if you are going to correct a photo because you think it is unfair, make sure the new version does not introduce a new bias.
 
Samsung was founded on reverse engineering Japanese electronics. They started with duplicating Sony Trinitron monitors back in the days. And here they are!

No it was founded on selling groceries... Get your facts straight.

----------

What exactly does this mean?

It does not make sense that Samsung copied the iPad to make the Samsung Galaxy Note.
 
I was asking about "stylus support", what makes it something besides a bullet point on a marketing sheet.

Have you ever tried a Samsung Note?

It's more than just a bullet point. It adds a lot of features. Not for me but for a lot of people, it's more than just a bullet point. No other consumer portable device integrates stylus support better than Galaxy Note products.
 
Some might disagree and say patents protect innovation. What motivation is there to create something new and release it to the public if someone else is going to just steal your idea (that they would probably never have thought of on their own ever) and make a ton of money off of it? The only thing small-time patent holders CAN do is sue. They can't compete with companies like Apple and Samsung, yet they often get labeled "patent trolls" right along with companies that buy them only to sue with them because they DARED to INVENT an idea and have Samsung just peruse through the patent files for new ideas to steal. I mean WTF is the point of a patent if it doesn't protect you from big companies trying to steal your ideas? This happened to the guy that invented delay windshield wipers. They just stole his idea, paid him NOTHING and went on their merry way. It took a LONG time for the courts to do something about it and in most cases, they probably do NOTHING because the person can't afford the litigation in court to begin with. Yeah, you're probably better off just letting your idea for the Warp Drive rot because if you tell anyone, you'll get ripped off sooner or later.

On the other side of the coin, there needs to be real limits to what can be patented. Software patents are insane. Just the opposite or regular patents, they are typically VAGUE, ABSTRACT ideas of a layout or flow diagram that covers almost anything imaginable. Being able to imagine a cell phone "working" like the TV watch thing in Dick Tracy is one thing. Being able to actually make it work is quite another! And that IMO is the difference between software patents and hardware patents. Actual computer code would be akin to a true hardware patent. But that's covered under copyright laws. But people say that's not enough since the idea is what matters. Yeah, but there are more than one way to skin a cat. There was a patent for the cotton gin, but IF someone could have made their own device that did the same thing but through a different METHOD, it would have been granted as well. After all, cotton was hand separated for the cotton gin was invented so the IDEA of WHAT the cotton gin did was not creative or inventive or anything of the sort. HOW the machine separated the cotton from the seed is what was patented. So instead of an iPhone layout that talks about "downloading information across a network" giving you patent control over EVER SINGLE CELL PHONE EVER MADE THEREAFTER, you would have to have a specific METHOD to do that (i.e. like Xmodem or Kermit or ZModem on the old modems to download; all separate methods to do the same thing!) That is the real problem with software patents and the like. It's also a problem if there's only one possible way to do something (i.e. patent contains using certain airwaves to transmit; well there's only so much bandwidth out there so that part shouldn't be covered).

If something is so easy to copy, it's good looking further if the object of protection deserves such protection. That is, copying a book or a DVD is pretty easy in comparison with the work involved on producing such intellectual material. However, "copying" a plastic rectangle or a GUI layout is pretty easy to design and to execute. For years the standard for websites is a menu at left and content at right or a menu on top with content immediately below. I can reproduce the same basic layout in less than an hour. It isn't innovative in any way nor this deserves any kind of intellectual property protection. If iPhone was really copied, Apple has tons of engineers capable of improving the product to the point of being even more competitive. It's a no-issue.

Lastly, which small players have legal advice for submitting and getting patents approved? Which small players have legal advice for sueing the big players? All this patent war looks like a monopoly strategy. Apple and Samsung are not in position to sue anyone, since they can change their strategies and build innovative stuff in a blink of an eye.
 
Last edited:
Home button?

What's the point of the home app on the Samsung home screen?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.