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Says the guy who doesn't think Samsung ripped off the iTunes logo for their music app.

You coined the "random crap" phrase. I didn't.

"And what Wells and Verne and Asimov and Kubrick and da Vinci came up with was nothing more than "random crap" to many of that time"

My point was that Steve Jobs and crew comes up with a lot of stuff that is "science fiction" of the time but somehow they are visionaries but you dismiss those that came before him. Ok. Got it.

So you're now claiming that Charles Babbage actually invented the iPhone and all Apple did was tweak his designs a bit?

What? Where did I say Charles Babbage invented the iPhone. I was saying that Siri was purchased by Apple and then Apple tweaked and integrated it into iOS...
 
The "idea" part is the easy part. The "implementing" is the challenge.

I can think up wild stuff all day long. Unfortunately that doesn't make me an "inventor."
it shows that this is not the case always

Yes. Different country. Different time. No documented evidence for the reason behind the patent denial.

An entertaining and interesting story, but it won't help Samsung. :p

(That said, Samsung lawyers are probably scanning Donald Duck comics as we speak.)
the dutch patent office confirmed the story. there is just no documentation from the time does not make the confirmation not true. i never said it would help samsung i just said it to counter your statements about sci fi and dreaming up inventions
 
What? Where did I say Charles Babbage invented the iPhone. I was saying that Siri was purchased by Apple and then Apple tweaked and integrated it into iOS...

You don't really need me to explain my post do you?

Renzatic got it, maybe read his post for a hint.
 
I would love to see a reference (sincerely) I don't see anything referenced via
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siri_(software)

Perhaps I'm recalling the details incorrectly. Did a lot of research on the subject last year, but seem to have forgotten a lot of it. I specifically recall Apple being involved early on with CALO, probably via Stanford. I recall someone on here posting how convenient it was for Apple to get started on the project, spin it off, let DARPA fund it's development, then buy it back later. But I'm having a hard time finding those references today.

There's a slim chance I'm completely wrong. ;). Most likely it was something more along the lines of former Apple employees being involved in a company that started the original tech. Gonna keep looking.

Lol, first talking about the case, then early smartphones, palm pilots and newtons, and while I was having dinner you guys went all the way back to Charles Babbage?!?!?!
 
Perhaps I'm recalling the details incorrectly. Did a lot of research on the subject last year, but seem to have forgotten a lot of it. I specifically recall Apple being involved early on with CALO, probably via Stanford. I recall someone on here posting how convenient it was for Apple to get started on the project, spin it off, let DARPA fund it's development, then buy it back later. But I'm having a hard time finding those references today.

There's a slim chance I'm completely wrong. ;). Most likely it was something more along the lines of former Apple employees being involved in a company that started the original tech. Gonna keep looking.

Lol, first talking about the case, then early smartphones, palm pilots and newtons, and while I was having dinner you guys went all the way back to Charles Babbage?!?!?!

Further - there was a reference to the big bang
 
Wow!

Damn Samsung you are FU**ED. This is so clearly just copying Apple. Every single thing that needs improved Samsung is using the iPhone as its "inspiration". It really is just pathetic. Like for real Samsung higher some real engineers and designers. Gotta love it though haha :apple:
 
Not 100% true. Apple was involved in starting the project that Siri evolved from. They spun it off, then bought it back later.

Nope, Apple didn't have anything to do with it. The government started the basic project that Siri came from. It was assigned to Stanford Research Institute (SRI), which is where the "SiRI" nickname arose.

If you manage to find the concept video you'll see Siri is a voice only version of a virtual assistant that Apple has slowly been marching towards for more than a decade. Given the humor and more personal touches to Siri, I'd its lineage is squarely based on Apple's previous concepts and not Android at all...

Siri's nowhere near as smart as that assistant yet. Siri reminds me more of the old Eliza program, but slightly better.

Says the guy who doesn't think Samsung ripped off the iTunes logo for their music app.

That's such an obvious icon that it shouldn't belong to anyone. Even Windows XP had a stock icon with a note over a CD disc.

The same goes for icons that people claim Apple ripped off, like that WiFi Sync name and icon from a Cydia app:

wifi_sync_icon.png

Sometimes a certain icon combination just makes sense. If you don't think that's true, then you'd have to attack Apple for "copying" as well.

Bringing up "conceptual thinking" and sci-fi fiction is a nice diversion but has no relevance to the case at hand, where we're dealing with actual products and actual trademarks and actual patents.

I recently pointed out that even SciFi props have Design Patents, and certainly the shows have trademarks. Also yes, TV show designs can count as prior art for those.

The judge rightly shot down Samsung's silly (and late) "2001: A Prior Art Odyssey" strategy.

Again, I recently noted that the judges (Koh and Magistrate Grewal) denied the "2001" and other references in expert witness papers only because Apple objected that they didn't know in time they would be used to try to invalidate their design patents. Otherwise they would've been valid attempts at prior art.

Here's the Samsung motion asking to keep those (search in it for "Space Odyssey") and other references, with their own claims that Apple did indeed know about the evidence in time. It was an appeal of this ruling that had thrown out many pieces of prior art referenced by both Samsung and Apple expert witnesses.
 
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My point was that Steve Jobs and crew comes up with a lot of stuff that is "science fiction" of the time but somehow they are visionaries but you dismiss those that came before him.

Steve Jobs and crew actually create devices you can buy and use.

Those other guys...not so much.

So which is the real visionary? The one who can think up something wild? Or the one who can make it happen?
 
Nope, Apple didn't have anything to do with it. The government started the basic project that Siri came from. It was assigned to Stanford Research Institute (SRI), which is where the "SiRI" nickname

I'm completely familiar with DARPA's funding of CALO, but I SWEAR I read about Apple or Jobs being involved in here early on, then walking away only to buy it later. This is really bugging me since I'm positive I read something about it somewhere. :mad:
 
and that is exactly what im doing looking at ALL the evidence not just one piece. Im not a fan of either apple or samsung and therefore have no personal feelings on either there both just multinational companies to me.
Yes jurors do evaluate but unlike you dont get to make a decision till they've heard and seen all the evidence
can you say the same that your not a fan of either company and haven't let personal feelings get in the way
You don't have to wait for all of the evidence. You are neither the judge or the jury and even if you were, wouldn't it be a complete waste of the jury's time if they had to ignore the evidence presented and then only review the evidence at the end? Why bother showing up for the trial? Why not just present the evidence in front of a camera, then do the edits and cuts based on sustained objections and then bring in the jury to view the final cut at the very end?

You are not being objective. You are ignoring the evidence presented so far because it looks damning against Samsung and you have a crush on that company.

You should take in each piece of evidence as it is presented without passing a final judgement, then review any evidence at the end as needed before rendering your final vote. That is how juries are supposed to work. The impartiality only exists at the start of the trial and the evidence is presented to "sway" you in one direction or the other through the course of the trial.
:rolleyes:
 
You don't have to wait for all of the evidence. You are neither the judge or the jury and even if you were, wouldn't it be a complete waste of the jury's time if they had to ignore the evidence presented and then only review the evidence at the end? Why bother showing up for the trial? Why not just present the evidence in front of a camera, then do the edits and cuts based on sustained objections and then bring in the jury to view the final cut at the very end?

You are not being objective. You are ignoring the evidence presented so far because it looks damning against Samsung and you have a crush on that company.

You should take in each piece of evidence as it is presented without passing a final judgement, then review any evidence at the end as needed before rendering your final vote. That is how juries are supposed to work. The impartiality only exists at the start of the trial and the evidence is presented to "sway" you in one direction or the other through the course of the trial.
:rolleyes:

I'm not the one ignoring evidence I'm waiting for more evidence. You said it yourself you take each piece of evidence without passing a final judgement till the end
Yet you haven't done that in fact if you were honest you'd decided before you'd seen a single piece of evidence.

To say I've a crush on Samsung is the best line yet gives you away totally, feel free to check my posts I'm neither for or against either company, again I wonder if you can say the same? Cos I refuse to jump to a conclusion before all the facts are out I'm not objective

By the way you first paragraph contradicts your last. The jury will listen to all the evidence as presented then make a decision after hearing it ALL, they maybe be swayed all over hence why they ain't asked for there decision till the end.
Look I get it you've picked your side you may own apple stock or work for them in some capacity thats fine just don't pretend your objective

By the end of the trial we may be in complete agreement the difference is I'll have have reached my conclusion objectively looking at everything presented you reached your decision before the trial began
 
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It seems that Samsung used a competitors product to improve what they thought that competitor did right and what they(Samsung) did wrong..

So when apple made the iPhone, they made it in a vacuum right? Then didn't pull up a windows phone or a blackberry or nokia and say "Gee here is the current market leaders smartphones, what can we do to improve upon it?":rolleyes:

This is rhetorical because we all know Apple didn't invent the iphone or iOS in a vacuum it used what was currently on the market to improve on different aspects of the "smartphone" WHILE STILL BORROWING some aspects of what they thought was a best practice used by other smartphone leaders.

Ironically enough, they one pulled half the picture with the first iPhone release, they made a touchscreen OS very user friendly. But even still, other market leaders at the time had far better OS "smartphone" features.

of course apple looked at it's competitors, however you said it correctly, they said to them selves: how can we make these products better?
Samsung said: Looks like we can't think ourselves how to make a better phone... so let's atleast make it as good as the competitors by exactly copying every button.
They should have rather said the following: the iPhone currently does this, ours does that, we like it to be better than the iPhone. how can we achieve that?
You can still compare yourself to the competition, but not by saying lets just copy their exact layout since apple already did all the testing on why it should look that way, and why those buttons have the size they do. So why do we need to repeat that process. That is exactly what apple is suing them about. They ended up with a mere copy of the iPhone without doing any of the work apple had to do to get to the current product.

This document supports that claim 100%
 
Steve Jobs and crew actually create devices you can buy and use.

Those other guys...not so much.

So which is the real visionary? The one who can think up something wild? Or the one who can make it happen?

Ignorance must be bliss.

Apple holds several patents for things they have never executed on. So do you or do you not believe those patents which have never been created are also not important or valuable?

If you don't think the people mentioned aren't real visionaries or that their contributions to society are important - there's really nothing left to say. You've discredited yourself. Again.
 
Siri's nowhere near as smart as that assistant yet. Siri reminds me more of the old Eliza program, but slightly better.

Anyone who owned a Sound Blaster card in the early 90s remembers :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Sbaitso

Really, research and development in this area is oooooooolllllddddd... (yes, I know Dr. Sbaitso didn't actually do anything and probably just parroted random phrases at you).

Dunno why we're even discussing this. No one has a "design patent" over the general idea of a voice assistant. It's totally off-topic and irrelevant to the document presented here.
 
If you want to do the pick-a-page-that-supports-your-opinion game, fine. But there's plenty of pages which seem to suggest the opposite of "do ... our own approach."

Page 131:
iPhone: "Light used for a three dimensionality; gives a luxurious feel. Curves are fluid to give a soft and comfortable feel."
i9000: "Menu icons lacking in three dimensional effect using light. icon edge curvature not fluid. Strong impression that iphone's icon concept was copied."
Directions for Improvement: "Insert effects of light for a softer, more luxurious icon implementation. Make the edge curve more smooth to erase the hard feel. Remove a feeling that the iPhone's menu icons are copied by differentiating design."

Contrast with a competitor:
Microsoft obviously does the opposite by using no light effects, even less color, and shape square edges.

Comment: Clearly there's different ways of making nice looking icons. Clearly their own engineer had a feeling that they're copying the iPhone. Obviously this warning went unheeded.

Page 128:
iPhone: "Screen rotates during transition when Keypad or Hide Keypad is tapped during calls."
i9000: "Screen switches without effects."
Directions for Improvement: "Add screen transition effects such as rotation/fly-in when operating each kind of option menu."

Comment:
There's a meaningful difference between simply "add a screen transition effect" and suggesting a transition where the first suggestion is exactly what the iPhone does. If I were thinking of transitions, the most obvious to me is actually a crossfade, not a rotation.

Page 117:
Their QA engineer says "Feels awkward since all icons have frames on background." Their QA engineer suggests that a solution would be "use the icons only."

Their QA engineer actually suggested that using the stock Android icons (where there's no square background) would have been easier and "a clean and uniform feel." What they actually did? Deliberately ignored the advice and pick the solution that looks more like the iPhone's icons.

Page 103:
Directions for Improvement: "Need improvements to enable one button access like the iPhone."

Comment: It's obvious to us now. But back then, if stuff like this was common sense, why wasn't it done in the first place?

Page 101:
Basically, i9000 hides scroll bar until touched. iPhone always shows it. We should show it.

Comment: Hiding and showing UI element took extra work to implement. It took a comparison with another product to figure out that the extra work done was a decrease in usability? Wouldn't something like this have been easy to figure out while designing?

I could not agree more with this.
Thanks for the work! :D
 
There will be no fatal blows, for either side in this case. It covers mostly old devices that are not on the market anymore. Heck, this document we're talking about is for the Samsung Galaxy S GT-i9000, the original model. It's not even being sold, being 2 generations old.

the captivate is being sold at telus at the superstrore in Nova Scotia. 149$ prepaid. talked lots of people into getting one instead of an ipod touch. amazing phone for audio much better then a touch in that regard. also good for kids. my 4 year old has one(got on ebay for 80 few months back) still a fantastic phone and at the price a much much better option then a 3gs
 
Which is part of Canada last time I checked, and not impacted by a court case in California, United States. ;)

your not that big of a separatist to have to assume NS is still in canada? ;)
i just forgot the context of this thread for a second. im just happy these cases dont come here
 
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