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Me: Hey, Apple, I like your display. I'll take one, but I really need the height adjustment.
Apple: That will be an extra $300.
Me: Ouch! It's already $1599. How about you sell me one without a stand; I'll buy my own. How much will that cost?
Apple: The same as the one with a stand.
Me: Bye, Apple. Hello, Samsung!
 
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Studio Display is pricey, but features, quality and integration is absolutely killer for me. Best display all around I've ever had. For sure in the future we will have 90hz - 120hz version but 5K is huge and for true retina 27" is ideal with 5K. Many users don't understand why 4K is a compromise for retina in 27" or higher.
 
I have an ultra wide at work (38") and a smaller one at home (34"), but I would settle for a 32" widescreen display. I hope Apple will release a 32" Studio Display soon.
It should be 6K for true retina scaling
 
human beings are looking at screens more than ever before in the history of humankind and Flicker/ Refresh rate should not be locked away in a top-tier offering that jack’s up the price notably…

higher refresh rates, all things being equal are better for the eye, then lower refresh rates…

And 90%+ of those human beings have no interest in a 5k 120Hz display - 5k@27" is really only of interest for Mac users because a historical quirk of the Mac OS UI make it the "sweet spot". That doesn't apply to Windows which has a fully scalable UI and - if anything - Windows apps are designed with 1080p in mind so 4k UHD is the "sweet spot".

The market for 5k displays is tiny, so high prices are inevitable - that's only partly "greed" because economies of scale are a huge factor in electronics prices and 5k panels are only made in relatively (c.f. 4k UHD and HD) small quantities.

Oh, and "flicker" ceased to be a thing when everybody switched to TFT LCD screens (there's the PWM flicker issue on some screens, but that's a totally different issue, involves much higher frequencies and is nothing to do with refresh rates). The only advantage of higher refresh rates is "smoother" motion when scrolling, dragging windows etc., playing games and making every movie you watch look like a daytime soap opera (seriously - go google 'soap opera effect'!).
yes, it’s a 1080p Fry’s purchase monitor 🥸

Math lesson: (5120x2880)/(1920x1080) =~ 7

So a 5k display has seven times the number of pixels, needs seven times the bandwidth and (crudely) needs the GPU to work seven times as hard for 5k as for 1080p. If you double the frame rate, you double that. So, high frame rate at 1080p is comfortably in the range of 4k-capable kit, but 5k@120fps pushes the limits of most GPUs and widely-available interfaces (again, crudely, it needs 8k-capable kit) - not to mention the significantly increased complexity of the panel and control circuitry.

You're acting as if the lack of higher refresh rates at 5k is just manufacturers being arbitrarily mean. In reality, it means adding a lot of complexity for the sake of a much reduced market of people who could actually run it, let alone want it.

1080p@120fps is a good compromise if your main requirements gaming and watching HFR movies where it is worth trading resolution for fluidity of motion - given that most people's computers would struggle to run games at 4k and 120fps - let alone 5k@120fps.

offtopic: More cars should come standard with mudflaps, it saves other drivers windshields from debris. They too, shouldn’t jack up the price of a car imo. 😎
I absolutely agree that the Studio Display is lacking in the "mudflaps" department (i.e. $400 for a proper stand), the cigar lighter socket department (no detachable mains cable), the no aux input on the radio department (no additional DisplayPort or HDMI in) and the no aftermarket tow hitch department (Choose VESA or basic stand at purchase) - all things that are common on far cheaper displays. Not defending Apple on that one.

But you're asking for cars to come with seven times the horsepower for the same price, when 90% of customers only use them drive to and from work through 50mph or lower speed limits. Not gonna happen.
 
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And 90%+ of those human beings have no interest in a 5k 120Hz display - 5k@27" is really only of interest for Mac users because a historical quirk of the Mac OS UI make it the "sweet spot". That doesn't apply to Windows which has a fully scalable UI and - if anything - Windows apps are designed with 1080p in mind so 4k UHD is the "sweet spot".

[...]
I gotta say I have no idea what y'all (not just the poster in the quote) are saying about display resolutions :) I once understood monitor display resolutions back in VGA -- hahah -- days but what's this talk about 5k 27" monitors (or something like that) needed for readability on Macs and that 4k 27" wouldn't work well? Any links to read up on what all of this is about?
 
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but what's this talk about 5k 27" monitors (or something like that) needed for readability on Macs and that 4k 27" wouldn't work well?
TLDNR: If you want the optimum display quality for your Mac (see below), pay the price and get a 5k 27" or a 6k 32" Pro XDR. If you're going to be spending 8 hours a day staring at this thing, that's not necessarily stupid. If, however, you want to save $1000 or so, or want a dual-display setup for the price of a single 220ppi display, or fancy a different size/format of screen, buy a 4k display and enjoy a perfectly good display for most purposes and don't start seeing problems because YouTube told you to.

Today's Mac OS UI is designed to look its best at 220 pixels-per-inch. That's what you get with a 5k 27" (5129x2880) display like the Studio Display and the Samsung being discussed here. The Pro XDR display - 32" at 6k also works out to 220 ppi, the 24" iMac at about 210 ppi, the various MacBooks vary between about 220-250 ppi so its almost a constant 220ppi across all Apple displays. People sometimes refer to this as a "2x" or "pixel doubled" mode because everything is using 2x as many linear pixels as an old-school 110ppi display (like the old pre-5k iMac) - you can (by jumping through a few hoops) switch to "1x" mode which, on a 5k display, will leave all of those icons, fonts etc. unusably small.

The practical upshot of this is that icons, menu bars, system fonts, dialogue boxes, scroll bars etc. all appear to be about the same physical size (i.e. if you hold a ruler up to the screen) across all Apple displays, and any bitmap assets (icons etc.) included in apps will have been created at that resolution.

If you, instead, use a 27" 4k display, the resolution is more like 160ppi and, in the usual "2x" mode, all those icons, system fonts etc. will consequently appear a bit large and occupy more screen space. MacOS gives you three options:

First, you can switch to 1x mode with tiny system fonts, icons etc. which is just about usable with young eyeballs on a 27" 4k - but if you go for a 30" or larger 4k display it starts to become a viable option (although, with that, comes larger and more visible pixels).

Second: you can use a "fractionally scaled" mode - the most common one being the misleadingly named "looks like 2560x1440" which essentially renders everything to an internal 5k virtual display and then downsamples the result to 4k - and no, it really doesn't "look like 2560x1440" - unless you've got better than 20/20 vision or climb up on the desk and do direct comparisons with a 5k it looks pretty close to 5k. There are some downsides - the downsampling puts some extra load on the GPU (maybe a problem with the old Intel iGPUs but Apple Silicon shouldn't break a sweat) and there is some degradation of single-pixel features (but 160ppi at 21" viewing distance is 'retina' so those are going to be hard to see).

Third: come on folks: 2x mode is perfectly usable on a 27" 4k. Its just that the system icons and dialogues are a bit large - but hide the dock, auto-hide the menu bar (or work in full screen mode) and almost every app lets you zoom the actual content exactly to taste, so if you want lots of spreadsheet rows or lines of code its a non-issue. I know people who run in this mode on a 27" display because it is easier on the eyes than "looks like an iMac" mode... and you only need to use this mode if you're doing some specific job for which fractional scaling is an issue... and if you're after screen estate you can get 2-3 display setup for the price of a single 5k display.

Unfortunately, there are a couple of articles out there which hype up the problems with fractional scaling to absurd attempts (...e.g. showing greatly enlarged screenshots of pathological cases like 1-pixel grids and completely ignoring the possibility of taking 5 seconds to change screen mode when dealing with such). Yes, 4k is a compromise - but its a perfectly sensible compromise for many.

NB: The big problem is that Windows (and many Linux UIs) don't have the Mac's fixation on 110/220 ppi or the Mac's history with 1440p 27" displays - instead, they basically let you set the system's true ppi resolution and everything gets scaled accordingly - this does have its disadvantages though (it relies on applications being well behaved - and pre-rendered bitmap assets will still get rescaled). Also, the pre-retina "standard" for PCs, which may have influences software design, was more like 1080p than 1440p so doubling that to 4k probably is the sweet spot for Windows. Plus, Apple pioneered 5k with the iMac which used a custom, internal, high-speed video interface. The external 5k displays for PC that appeared around that time used a kludgey two-cable DisplayPort connection. Anyway, the PC world never really took to 5k, leaving it as a niche product for Mac users, hence the expense.
 
TLDNR: If you want the optimum display quality for your Mac (see below), pay the price and get a 5k 27" or a 6k 32" Pro XDR. If you're going to be spending 8 hours a day staring at this thing, that's not necessarily stupid. If, however, you want to save $1000 or so, or want a dual-display setup for the price of a single 220ppi display, or fancy a different size/format of screen, buy a 4k display and enjoy a perfectly good display for most purposes and don't start seeing problems because YouTube told you to.

Today's Mac OS UI is designed to look its best at 220 pixels-per-inch. That's what you get with a 5k 27" (5129x2880) display like the Studio Display and the Samsung being discussed here. The Pro XDR display - 32" at 6k also works out to 220 ppi, the 24" iMac at about 210 ppi, the various MacBooks vary between about 220-250 ppi so its almost a constant 220ppi across all Apple displays. People sometimes refer to this as a "2x" or "pixel doubled" mode because everything is using 2x as many linear pixels as an old-school 110ppi display (like the old pre-5k iMac) - you can (by jumping through a few hoops) switch to "1x" mode which, on a 5k display, will leave all of those icons, fonts etc. unusably small.

The practical upshot of this is that icons, menu bars, system fonts, dialogue boxes, scroll bars etc. all appear to be about the same physical size (i.e. if you hold a ruler up to the screen) across all Apple displays, and any bitmap assets (icons etc.) included in apps will have been created at that resolution.

If you, instead, use a 27" 4k display, the resolution is more like 160ppi and, in the usual "2x" mode, all those icons, system fonts etc. will consequently appear a bit large and occupy more screen space. MacOS gives you three options:

First, you can switch to 1x mode with tiny system fonts, icons etc. which is just about usable with young eyeballs on a 27" 4k - but if you go for a 30" or larger 4k display it starts to become a viable option (although, with that, comes larger and more visible pixels).

Second: you can use a "fractionally scaled" mode - the most common one being the misleadingly named "looks like 2560x1440" which essentially renders everything to an internal 5k virtual display and then downsamples the result to 4k - and no, it really doesn't "look like 2560x1440" - unless you've got better than 20/20 vision or climb up on the desk and do direct comparisons with a 5k it looks pretty close to 5k. There are some downsides - the downsampling puts some extra load on the GPU (maybe a problem with the old Intel iGPUs but Apple Silicon shouldn't break a sweat) and there is some degradation of single-pixel features (but 160ppi at 21" viewing distance is 'retina' so those are going to be hard to see).

Third: come on folks: 2x mode is perfectly usable on a 27" 4k. Its just that the system icons and dialogues are a bit large - but hide the dock, auto-hide the menu bar (or work in full screen mode) and almost every app lets you zoom the actual content exactly to taste, so if you want lots of spreadsheet rows or lines of code its a non-issue. I know people who run in this mode on a 27" display because it is easier on the eyes than "looks like an iMac" mode... and you only need to use this mode if you're doing some specific job for which fractional scaling is an issue... and if you're after screen estate you can get 2-3 display setup for the price of a single 5k display.

Unfortunately, there are a couple of articles out there which hype up the problems with fractional scaling to absurd attempts (...e.g. showing greatly enlarged screenshots of pathological cases like 1-pixel grids and completely ignoring the possibility of taking 5 seconds to change screen mode when dealing with such). Yes, 4k is a compromise - but its a perfectly sensible compromise for many.

NB: The big problem is that Windows (and many Linux UIs) don't have the Mac's fixation on 110/220 ppi or the Mac's history with 1440p 27" displays - instead, they basically let you set the system's true ppi resolution and everything gets scaled accordingly - this does have its disadvantages though (it relies on applications being well behaved - and pre-rendered bitmap assets will still get rescaled). Also, the pre-retina "standard" for PCs, which may have influences software design, was more like 1080p than 1440p so doubling that to 4k probably is the sweet spot for Windows. Plus, Apple pioneered 5k with the iMac which used a custom, internal, high-speed video interface. The external 5k displays for PC that appeared around that time used a kludgey two-cable DisplayPort connection. Anyway, the PC world never really took to 5k, leaving it as a niche product for Mac users, hence the expense.
I agree with most of what you said, but just a couple of comments:

5K 27" provides a perfect 2X scaling of 2560x1440. IMO 2560x1440 is excellent because it provides two half screen areas of 1280 which is perfect for dual browser windows or else a browser window and an editor window, with a little extra space to spare.

HOWEVER, this ends up providing smaller font sizes than on older Mac hardware running macOS. The standard on Apple's older Cinema HD Display was 2560x1600 at 30" (101 ppi). IMO, this provides perfect default font sizing for macOS in 2023, just like it did in 2010 (when it was discontinued). Scaled up, this would be equivalent to 5120x3200 at 30" (201 ppi) or else 5120x2880 at 29.2" (201 ppi).

However, such screens don't exist. So, I am currently running a 28.2" 3840x2560 4K+ 3:2 screen. Running it at 2560x1707 would provide the same "looks like" font sizing as a 27" 5K monitor (109/218 ppi), which as mentioned I find a touch small. Hence, I run at 2304x1536 which would be the font size equivalent of a hypothetical 98/196 ppi screen. With this scaled resolution, I'm very happy with the default text sizing, but unfortunately 2304 is just a tad too narrow. That provides two 1152 pixel wide half-screen areas, which is just a tad small for common modern websites, esp. if I want to have some room left over to see icons on the desktop, etc.

One solution would be get a 6K 32" monitor and run a fractionally scaled resolution, but unfortunately that costs waaaaaaaayyyyyy too much. I don't need 1600 nits or multi-zone dimming either to look at text all day. Plus the other issue is Apple for some reason doesn't offer very many fractionally scaled resolutions.

396cc63e-b6fe-4f90-8d44-c7a8f49311e6.png


The default for the Pro Display XDR is 3008x1692 (109/218 ppi) which is fine, but the next step down is 2560x1440? WTF? That default is Apple's usual 109/218 ppi, which I guess means the screen is not actually 32". It may be closer to 31.7". Assuming I'm not completely confused, 2560x1440 would be equivalent to a 93/185 ppi screen. Not sure why there isn't anything in-between, esp. since Apple offers other options on 3rd party displays. AFAIK, the "Show all resolutions" tab doesn't help because it just provides low resolution modes.

Mac users have to resort to third party applications to get alternate resolutions.

Messages Image(3592987911).png


I'm thinking a nice HiDPI resolution might be something like 2720x1530 ("looks like" 98/197 ppi) or 2880x1620 ("looks like" 104/208 ppi) on that monitor. But as mentioned, the Pro Display XDR is waaaaaaayyyyyy too much money for most people. Here's hoping for other options in the 29-32" space to appear in 2023 or 2024.
 
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@theluggage , thanks for that detailed post. I'm going to have to re-read slowly and digest :)

UPDATE: Ok, I read the post and had some time to think about it, but not that I fully understand what's going on.

That said, I think what you've clarified explains why on Windows computer, one of the Display options include a Zoom slider which Macs don't. I suppose if the resolution chosen is very high making images/text very small, a Windows user can use that display Zoom slider to increase the size of the whole picture for viewability. To me, that's fine with the exception that you never really know what is the actual "normal" size when a text goes to someone else's computer such as say an email or Word document. A savvy user would know how to control that, but more often than not it's probably easy to forget that you're using the display at a zoomed level such that on someone else's computer it would appear too big or too small.

Perhaps this is an issue Apple is trying to solve so that things look pretty similar across computers without needing a user's manual (and therefore usually imprecise) intervention?
 
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So now MacRumors can finally stop complaining how the Apple Studio Display is the worst monitor out there and buy this Samsung display instead.
 
BTW, there appears to be some firmware issue with this monitor with Intel Macs. In the YouTube review linked in the other thread, there are horrible display issues when used with the review's Intel Mac Pro and 2017 MacBook Pro. Works fine with his Apple Silicon MacBook Pro M1 Pro.

View attachment 2223943

View attachment 2223944




See my previous post. Some Korean dude pre-ordered it for under US$1000.
Hi,
Here is the resolution that the MacOS offer for the monitor.
 

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I disagree. The speakers in the ASD are good enough for me to stop using my Presonus E4.5 powered speakers. I've loved those speakers since I bought them in 2015 (Well regarded by reviewers and purchasers alike, price was right). I edit videos for a living, no complex sound edits required.

What I may have dropped in perceived audio quality by switching to the ASD's internal speakers (and I really think it isn't much), I have gained in desk space and fewer cables.
Agree. I was using audioengine a2 and a pair of great Altec vintage 885s (that sound fantastic!) but stopped using when got ASD. The asd has clearer audio. Not as loud but sounds surprisingly good!
 
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I agree with most of what you said, but just a couple of comments:

5K 27" provides a perfect 2X scaling of 2560x1440. IMO 2560x1440 is excellent because it provides two half screen areas of 1280 which is perfect for dual browser windows or else a browser window and an editor window, with a little extra space to spare.

HOWEVER, this ends up providing smaller font sizes than on older Mac hardware running macOS. The standard on Apple's older Cinema HD Display was 2560x1600 at 30" (101 ppi). IMO, this provides perfect default font sizing for macOS in 2023, just like it did in 2010 (when it was discontinued). Scaled up, this would be equivalent to 5120x3200 at 30" (201 ppi) or else 5120x2880 at 29.2" (201 ppi).

However, such screens don't exist. So, I am currently running a 28.2" 3840x2560 4K+ 3:2 screen. Running it at 2560x1707 would provide the same "looks like" font sizing as a 27" 5K monitor (109/218 ppi), which as mentioned I find a touch small. Hence, I run at 2304x1536 which would be the font size equivalent of a hypothetical 98/196 ppi screen. With this scaled resolution, I'm very happy with the default text sizing, but unfortunately 2304 is just a tad too narrow. That provides two 1152 pixel wide half-screen areas, which is just a tad small for common modern websites, esp. if I want to have some room left over to see icons on the desktop, etc.

One solution would be get a 6K 32" monitor and run a fractionally scaled resolution, but unfortunately that costs waaaaaaaayyyyyy too much. I don't need 1600 nits or multi-zone dimming either to look at text all day. Plus the other issue is Apple for some reason doesn't offer very many fractionally scaled resolutions.

View attachment 2224659

The default for the Pro Display XDR is 3008x1692 (109/218 ppi) which is fine, but the next step down is 2560x1440? WTF? That default is Apple's usual 109/218 ppi, which I guess means the screen is not actually 32". It may be closer to 31.7". Assuming I'm not completely confused, 2560x1440 would be equivalent to a 93/185 ppi screen. Not sure why there isn't anything in-between, esp. since Apple offers other options on 3rd party displays. AFAIK, the "Show all resolutions" tab doesn't help because it just provides low resolution modes.

Mac users have to resort to third party applications to get alternate resolutions.

View attachment 2224662

I'm thinking a nice HiDPI resolution might be something like 2720x1530 ("looks like" 98/197 ppi) or 2880x1620 ("looks like" 104/208 ppi) on that monitor. But as mentioned, the Pro Display XDR is waaaaaaayyyyyy too much money for most people. Here's hoping for other options in the 29-32" space to appear in 2023 or 2024.
What 3:2 monitor?
 
HOWEVER, this ends up providing smaller font sizes than on older Mac hardware running macOS. The standard on Apple's older displays was 2560x1600 at 30" (101 ppi). IMO, this provides perfect default font sizing for macOS in 2023, just like it did in 2010 (when it was discontinued).

I didn't want to get things too complicated, but calling 101 ppi, 110 ppi or 220ppi a "standard" is a bit of an over-statement. Even today, the currently available Macbooks come in 224, 227 and 254 ppi flavours. AFAIK the "110ppi" came in with the 27" LED Cinema Display (109ppi) and I know the UI was noticably smaller than other Mac displays at the time (I think even the matching 24" was lower ppi). Then you had a clutch of 2004 displays with the ~100ppi resolution. The 17" MacBook Pro had something like 130ppi and a noticably smaller UI. At one point there was a high-def display option for the 15" MBP... Heh. I remember the good old days when Apple screens were 72ppi so that 1 pixel = 1 point (and like most things from the "good old days" I don't think it is 100% true - looking on everymac.com they were in the 70 - 80 ppi ballpark).

So 110/220 is really a "since 2008" thing and then only applies to Apple desktop systems and displays.

However, such screens don't exist. So, I am currently running a 28.2" 3840x2560 4K+ 3:2 screen. Running it at 2560x1707 would provide the same "looks like" font sizing as a 27" 5K monitor (109/218 ppi), which as mentioned I find a touch small. Hence, I run at 2304x1536 which would be the font size equivalent of a hypothetical 98/196 ppi screen.
Yes, I think we have the same Huawei Mateview monitor(s) - I've tried 2304x1536 and its certainly a nice size. Personally, though, with the same physical width and 2" extra vertical space over a 16:9 27" I find them perfectly good at "1920x1280" with zoom/font sizes in individual apps adjusted to taste. I'm happy with the Mateviews but its a pity there isn't a better choice of 3:2 (or even 16:10) displays.
 
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Hi,
Here is the resolution that the MacOS offer for the monitor.
That's great Joe. Nice to see that Apple offers 2304x1296 on this monitor. They should offer it on the Apple Studio Display too, but they don't for some reason.

BTW, thanks for posting those two videos. I just watched your newer one:


The monitor looks decent. The plastic is fine looks-wise, but the wobbling would be annoying on some desks. Unfortunately, it does have noticeable matte-screen-related light falloff off-axis, similar to my Huawei Mateview 28.2" 3840x2560 screen.

With the availability of 2304x1296 (without having to run a third party application), I would consider giving it a shot for a bit clearer text than my Huawei, but the off-axis light fall-off is a concern. But what I really want is a 5K or 5K+ 29-30" screen.

Do you see any backlight bleed? I didn't notice it in the video.

What 3:2 monitor?
Huawei MateView 28.2 4K+ 3840x2560 monitor. I paid CA$699 last year, which at the time was around US$515.

I have it hooked up to an M1 Mac mini via USB-C.


I didn't want to get things too complicated, but calling 101 ppi, 110 ppi or 220ppi a "standard" is a bit of an over-statement. Even today, the currently available Macbooks come in 224, 227 and 254 ppi flavours. AFAIK the "110ppi" came in with the 27" LED Cinema Display (109ppi) and I know the UI was noticably smaller than other Mac displays at the time (I think even the matching 24" was lower ppi). Then you had a clutch of 2004 displays with the ~100ppi resolution. The 17" MacBook Pro had something like 130ppi and a noticably smaller UI. At one point there was a high-def display option for the 15" MBP... Heh. I remember the good old days when Apple screens were 72ppi so that 1 pixel = 1 point (and like most things from the "good old days" I don't think it is 100% true - looking on everymac.com they were in the 70 - 80 ppi ballpark).

So 110/220 is really a "since 2008" thing and then only applies to Apple desktop systems and displays.
Yes of course. 109/218 ppi is Apple's "standard" for desktop displays only. With laptops it's totally different since the seating distance is often different.
 
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Personally I’ve used ACD for years, tried to replace with countless monitors with 4K, dell high refresh 240, Samsung, hp and kept coming back to ACD. Eventually few months back got ACD when Costco has sale for 1200. I was waiting for Samsung 5k but taking forever to come out and now seeing it’s same price as ASD on sale glad I didn’t wait. The ASD is great. Yeah overkill for size but looks so sharp and speakers are so good I’m no longer using my externals. I don’t use cam so don’t care about quality. Yeah would be nice to have adjustable stand but I have ikea stands so perfect height and storage under it. The best part is the brightness and volume adjust on keyboard. Yeah can use software for other monitors but built in is best. I adjust brightness all day long. If I have to focus on other things I just momentarily lower brightness or depending on what doing on screen. But this may be in the minority. Oh and almost forgot, the monitor has to be glossy glass. That’s what I loved too about the ACD. Being able to clean it easily is good and the color on both pop. It’s not a cheap look as others state. The matte or matte(er) screen is underneath, it’s actually much nicer to have glass on top. But again maybe that’s just me, that’s why I could never replace ACD with anything else, not until I got ASD. Btw still using the ACD in kids room. Still looks great in my opinion!
 
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I didn't want to get things too complicated, but calling 101 ppi, 110 ppi or 220ppi a "standard" is a bit of an over-statement. Even today, the currently available Macbooks come in 224, 227 and 254 ppi flavours. AFAIK the "110ppi" came in with the 27" LED Cinema Display (109ppi) and I know the UI was noticably smaller than other Mac displays at the time (I think even the matching 24" was lower ppi). Then you had a clutch of 2004 displays with the ~100ppi resolution. The 17" MacBook Pro had something like 130ppi and a noticably smaller UI. At one point there was a high-def display option for the 15" MBP... Heh. I remember the good old days when Apple screens were 72ppi so that 1 pixel = 1 point (and like most things from the "good old days" I don't think it is 100% true - looking on everymac.com they were in the 70 - 80 ppi ballpark).

[...]

Hmm...so you're telling me that even within Mac ecosystem that at "normal" zoom level, the size of images and text do not look the same across Apple devices? Hmm...ugh.
 
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To me, that's fine with the exception that you never really know what is the actual "normal" size when a text goes to someone else's computer such as say an email or Word document.
That's true of any computer. As I mentioned in another post, the "220ppi standard" for Macs is very loose and even currently available Macs vary from 218 to 254 ppi.

Properly written software (which, loosely translated, means 'not Microsoft Office'!) will read the current ppi setting and display things the correct physical size - so, I've got one screen set to "looks like 1920x1280" (2x) and the other set to "looks like 2560x1707" - if I open an A4 document in Preview or Pages and choose "Zoom => actual size" and hold up a sheet of A4, it matches. Move the window to the other, differently-scales screen, choose "Zoom => actual size" again and bingo - still matches.

That's looking at a pdf file which has a defined size in real-world units. What you have to understand about emails, digital photos etc. is that they don't have a defined size. An email is just text. A photo is just pixels. Yes, most image formats include metadata that can specify the physical size or ppi but that's only "real" if you (e.g.) scanned a printed photo or created a document and specified "A4" or "Letter". If you're trying to produce online resources, say a web page then.... well, let's just say that the words "of", "worms" and "can" spring to mind (plus a couple that I won't repeat on a respectable forum like this).
 
Hmm...so you're telling me that even within Mac ecosystem that at "normal" zoom level, the size of images and text do not look the same across Apple devices? Hmm...ugh.
It is normal practice to have text smaller on laptops than desktops, because the seating distance on laptops is usually closer. And some of the modern fully supported Mac laptops don't even run native 2X scaling by default in Ventura.

Once you get to a certain point, like ~225+ ppi, native 2X scaling isn't that much crisper for text for most people than fractional scaling even at laptop seating distances.

Text on the pro and non-Pro MacBooks is similarly sized, but for the MacBook Pros it's 2X scaled and for the non-Pro MacBooks it's fractionally scaled. Hence, the higher pixel density on the MacBook Pros.
 
That's great Joe. Nice to see that Apple offers 2304x1296 on this monitor. They should offer it on the Apple Studio Display too, but they don't for some reason.

BTW, thanks for posting those two videos. I just watched your newer one:


The monitor looks decent. The plastic is fine looks-wise, but the wobbling would be annoying on some desks. Unfortunately, it does have noticeable matte-screen-related light falloff off-axis, similar to my Huawei Mateview 28.2" 3840x2560 screen.

With the availability of 2304x1296 (without having to run a third party application), I would consider giving it a shot for a bit clearer text than my Huawei, but the off-axis light fall-off is a concern. But what I really want is a 5K or 5K+ 29-30" screen.

Do you see any backlight bleed? I didn't notice it in the video.


Huawei MateView 28.2 4K+ 3840x2560 monitor. I paid CA$699 last year, which at the time was around US$515.

I have it hooked up to an M1 Mac mini via USB-C.



Yes of course. 109/218 ppi is Apple's "standard" for desktop displays only. With laptops it's totally different since the seating distance is often different.
The monitor also has a backlight bleed especially on the bottom right. I just noticed it when you asked... Thank you. Maybe I need to contact Samsung for this.
 
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[...] What you have to understand about emails, digital photos etc. is that they don't have a defined size. An email is just text. A photo is just pixels. Yes, most image formats include metadata that can specify the physical size or ppi but that's only "real" if you (e.g.) scanned a printed photo or created a document and specified "A4" or "Letter". If you're trying to produce online resources, say a web page then.... well, let's just say that the words "of", "worms" and "can" spring to mind (plus a couple that I won't repeat on a respectable forum like this).

What you say about text is true and I knew it. I should have specified email that is written in HTML with specific font and font sizes which you can do in Outlook, Apple Mail, and many other programs.
 
Awesome. Good to see more 16:10 monitors.

My dream monitor would be a 16:10 32-inch high-dpi display with 120Hz support, VRR, an adjustable stand (amazing that I even need to specify that), and multiple inputs.

I’d even be willing to pay Apple’s crazy prices ($2000-2500) for something like that.
 
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I don't think this will be very successful, at least not in the US.
Mac users will just buy the Apple Studio, since pricing is so similar.
PC users will skip this, as it doesn't even have a full Displayport, just a mini, and is too pricey. Displayport is THE standard in the PC world.

Probably some niche PC video production places will pick it up for the 5K.
 
Got a refurbed Apple Studio Dispay VESA mount for $1300 - then got a great Vivo VESA count desk stand (Amaozon $60) which i like far better than the Apple stand
 
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