As someone who has sat through dozens and dozens of city council and planning commission meetings for my job, I can safely say that your comment makes you sound like a crazy person.
What facts, may I ask, did you base it on?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
San Francisco Officials Suggest Significant Changes Needed for Apple's New Flagship Store Proposal
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
As someone who has sat through dozens and dozens of city council and planning commission meetings for my job, I can safely say that your comment makes you sound like a crazy person.
What facts, may I ask, did you base it on?
If we were talking about the Federal government, I'd absolutely agree with you, but we're not. I see no issue with one city government choosing to have a bit more control over the aesthetics of their city than the governments of other cities might choose to have.
If you don't like the choices your local government is making, then you can choose to:
1 - Rally around someone who is running with a vision of what you want your government to look like.
2 - Run yourself.
3 - Keep quiet.
4 - Leave the city.
This would be unacceptable if it were the federal government, as it's significantly more difficult to shake them up. About all the change that happens is every 8 years the president gets termed and we get a new one (take a look - despite approval ratings below 10% more than 90% of representatives and senators remain seated between terms... many of them have held office for over a decade.)
Union Square is super-prime commercial real estate. Building the store in Daly City or someplace else where the local government doesn't care, probably won't be an option.
This is only a preliminary review, and the comments are based mainly on conformance with adopted city design standards. So no, they aren't just addressing complaints from residents.
autrefois
macrumors 65816
How on Earth did we get to the point where people think what a corporation wants is more important than what a city wants?
Facts? Who needs facts? We all know where these sorts of discussions go in a hurry. Poorly informed knee-jerk ideology always trumps facts.
Glad to see that they're listening to public feedback and moving things in the right direction.
I don't see what you're complaining about, the government always does zoning and gives approval over what can be built. It's how the public has some degree of control over their cities, if there were no restrictions every city would just become a gaudy circus.
I don't see what you're complaining about, the government always does zoning and gives approval over what can be built. It's how the public has some degree of control over their cities, if there were no restrictions every city would just become a gaudy circus.
You must live in some foreign alternate universe.
Money talks.
Did you ever read about the Apple store in Georgetown? Those on the board said they needed to keep the historic look and Apple went through a ton of designs...finally the one that got approved looked like the original. Sure Apple came back with some designs that were ridiculous but the first design was well within boundaries of acceptable to keep the look of the street.
Finally the mayor stepped in and told the board to stop hurting the area and approve the design because of the sheer amount of loss tax revenue Georgetown was losing due to the boards requests.
There's a point of common sense vs abuse of power and many of these boards, HOA, etc all get drunk on their ability/power.
In the end, the tax revenue loss is what got the approval, so again, money is almost always the deciding factor
Last edited:
Apple should just stay where they are. There is no reason to move especially with the grief they are getting. Let the planners try to find another tenant.
QCassidy352 said:
Every city, town, and hamlet has a planning commission. It's called a social contract -- maybe you should move to an island.
Anyhow, city councils often disregard the recommendations of these planning commissions, so there will be much political leeway.
Zoning is a function of city government. In addition to requirements for size and use of buildings, many of these codes also include specifications for appearance. This is why people can't build a flat, block-long box of apartments on my block. The code specifies that there have to be articulations every so many feet in addition to setting (unrelated) occupancy limits based on density considerations. Your city may be different, but you'd be hard pressed to find a city that doesn't do something similar.
They're not determining aesthetics for Apple. They're determining aesthetics for the city.
Don't see how the Apple store design = creativity. It's just another boring retail box store. The only difference is its got a huge glass window in the front. Wow. Innovation.
And why shouldn't the govt officials address the complaints from city residents? They pay taxes too. They're the ones who live in the city.
Last edited:
Local government has had this function for a long time. It's not like the NSA is telling them what a neighborhood should look like, these are people who live in the nieghborhood and work in the nieghborhood. Why shouldn't they get to decide this?
That's all well and good but when the people of the city raise concerns about the design or the fact it would displace a historical landmark, isn't is the job of the city government to listen and pass those concerns on to the architects? I bet a lot of people who aren't paying attention to this would be upset to find out that the fountain is gone, and also probably would equally disapprove of a blank steel wall just sitting there on Stockton when it could be something remotely cool.
That is the great parody! That's exactly what an incredibly stupid, uneducated, bigoted ignoramus would say. Well done!
Quote from the article:
(That being said, I agree with the second quoted poster that not all the buildings in the background here look "historic." Still, I think the design of this building would be fine for anywhere besides a block corner, where the wall they have against the street on the side is just an eyesore. I don't object as strongly to the nearly all-glass front other than the fact that I think our current trend of making buildings from largely glass is both not a good idea (energy efficiency?) and a fad prone to pass with time.)
These proposed changes from the city don't make sense. How is anyone supposed to build a building that exudes a company's brand if you have to make the building look like every other building around it?
Apple has done a great job of building stores within historic buildings elsewhere, but this building is a little triangle... probably not a very good use of space and certainly not for Apple's desired layout inside.
My favorite complaint from the city is that they didn't like the treatment of the "service tower" next to the Apple store. Um, look at it now!
http://d.pr/i/qlm2
The service tower looks almost the same in the new Apple design as it CURRENTLY appears. And yet the city is complaining...
I think government has a role in design approval, but there is a point at which it goes to far. I have an acquaintance in Germany who has been trying to build a custom-designed modern home for nearly a decade now -- their planning/design laws are so strict where he lives that he literally has not been able to start construction because it doesn't look like a stereotypical German house.
Apple has done a great job of building stores within historic buildings elsewhere, but this building is a little triangle... probably not a very good use of space and certainly not for Apple's desired layout inside.
My favorite complaint from the city is that they didn't like the treatment of the "service tower" next to the Apple store. Um, look at it now!
http://d.pr/i/qlm2
The service tower looks almost the same in the new Apple design as it CURRENTLY appears. And yet the city is complaining...
I think government has a role in design approval, but there is a point at which it goes to far. I have an acquaintance in Germany who has been trying to build a custom-designed modern home for nearly a decade now -- their planning/design laws are so strict where he lives that he literally has not been able to start construction because it doesn't look like a stereotypical German house.
Fortunately, for the citizens not every decision is solely revenue based. Initially, I think the mayor was looking at the situation just like you $$$.
Cynically, I think he realized Apple doesn't vote; the citizens do, and like all politicians, made an adjustment.
In all neighborhoods, but especially historic ones, there are many considerations that have to be factored before any changes can be made. Apple should want to integrate into the surroundings not upset it. You know, be a good neighbor... and not like the ****** 2 houses down from me who sets his lawnmower blades on 1 and butchers his grass to the point he's growing nothing but dandelions. I should take a shovel and...
My point: make nice with the people. It's better for Apple in the long run.
There probably should have been more committee involvement in the design of the fountain.
But IMO I agree with the city that the big concrete wall should be changed. But only if the overall design would be improved, and only if the architects apple hired agree. On principle alone, i hate design by committee.
But IMO I agree with the city that the big concrete wall should be changed. But only if the overall design would be improved, and only if the architects apple hired agree. On principle alone, i hate design by committee.
Why? Because it's their city and they've been given the job of deciding what design aesthetics belong in their city.
Oh good, now we have city officials pitching in on building design. What could go wrong.
So there's already a lot of glass on one street and a lot of metal on the other, and Apple wants to build a building that fits into the style that both already display, and they object. What a bunch of idiots.
----------
Design Review has not always been a part of city government.
----------
Gee, how about stop getting a paycheck paid by me for doing something that government shouldn't be doing? You know, I know it may be hard to fathom, but not all government jobs are critical jobs for life. This is the USA, not the UK
So there's already a lot of glass on one street and a lot of metal on the other, and Apple wants to build a building that fits into the style that both already display, and they object. What a bunch of idiots.
----------
Design Review has not always been a part of city government.
----------
Gee, how about stop getting a paycheck paid by me for doing something that government shouldn't be doing? You know, I know it may be hard to fathom, but not all government jobs are critical jobs for life. This is the USA, not the UK