San Francisco Officials Suggest Significant Changes Needed for Apple's New Flagship Store Proposal

[3282868]

agree completely....ridiculous...

Many cities have historic area's. In Boston, businesses in "Beacon Hill" must follow aesthetic guidelines; signs have to be wood with yellow letters on a green background. Buildings must remain relatively untouched, and any new construction must be approved by an appointed committee. This ensures the historic elements are preserved. The same applies to Union Square. This isn't new, and may seem extreme in some instances. Yet Apple retail locations are extreme in comparison to other companies; very modern, open, neutral and simple. One might believe it benefits from its simplicity by blending in, however in many instances it is just the opposite.

Imagine your neighbor built a giant windmill in their front lawn, or added a large addition to their front. Home owners still need town approval for certain renovations, even on their own property.

 

[nervouk]

How on Earth did we get to the point where people think what a corporation wants is more important than what a city wants?

Have been to Detroit recently? Without corporations you don't have much of a city.

 

[cameronjpu]

They're not determining aesthetics for Apple. They're determining aesthetics for the city.

Apparently not. They said that the streets already had too much of what Apple's design included, and that Apple should change it. Apparently what the design gurus in city government (yeah, irony intended) felt is that everything they had approved in the past was too much of a good thing, and that Apple should now do something other than what the planning department had approved in the past.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[iChrist]

"The city's planners object to the uniform wall of glass along the store's main frontage on Post Street, suggesting that Apple should do more to break up the wall by including colors or textures or vertical design elements."

How on earth did we get to the point where we think this is a proper function of government?

Wow, so melodramatic! It amazes me how people can't think.

The government doesn't care about design for style's sake. It is for public safety. Look it up before you ask me how that would come into play here. Heck, look anything up before you start talking, it will help people think you are smarter.

 

[mistergsf]

I work close to union square and trust me that nasty looking fountain needs to go. Drop that junk in the Haight somewhere.

I have to agree. No disrespect to Ruth Asawa, the artist, but I've never liked that fountain. I actually think it's kinda ugly the way it's just fitted onto the steps.

 

[hemanwomanhater]

Gee, how about stop getting a paycheck paid by me for doing something that government shouldn't be doing? You know, I know it may be hard to fathom, but not all government jobs are critical jobs for life. This is the USA, not the UK

Feel free to vote or leave I guess? The building is going in an historical district so this actually IS the government's job, believe it or not.

 

[RCGMac]

Oh good, now we have city officials pitching in on building design. What could go wrong.

So there's already a lot of glass on one street and a lot of metal on the other, and Apple wants to build a building that fits into the style that both already display, and they object. What a bunch of idiots.

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Design Review has not always been a part of city government.

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Gee, how about stop getting a paycheck paid by me for doing something that government shouldn't be doing? You know, I know it may be hard to fathom, but not all government jobs are critical jobs for life. This is the USA, not the UK

Planning is an important function of local government. Planning and zoning is what prevents your neighbor from building a pork rendering plant next to your house. The design and function of buildings is important. In my community there was an existing neighborhood with 2 story homes, an apartment complex wanted to go in across the street that was going to be nearly 200 units, with 3 story buildings. The main exit would have dumped out on to the neighborhood street. The buildings were going to look into the surrounding houses yards. The City Development Department recommended the project be changed because of traffic and density concerns. The developer worked with the City Development Department and in the end created a nice project that fit in with the rest of the neighborhood.

You may think planning and zoning is a waste of resources, but the purpose of planning and zoning is to protect property values and improve the quality of life. Sure cities sometimes overstep their bounds, but that is why there are planning commisisons, they serve as a publically appointed body and a check to make sure that City staff don't overstep their bounds.

 

[Four oF NINE]

San Francisco is protective of their identity. I have no doubt that the City and Apple will come to an agreement on this issue.

 

[autrefois]

You must live in some foreign alternate universe.

Money talks.

Did you ever read about the Apple store in Georgetown? Those on the board said they needed to keep the historic look and Apple went through a ton of designs...finally the one that got approved looked like the original. Sure Apple came back with some designs that were ridiculous but the first design was well within boundaries of acceptable to keep the look of the street.

Finally the mayor stepped in and told the board to stop hurting the area and approve the design because of the sheer amount of loss tax revenue Georgetown was losing due to the boards requests.

No, I wasn't aware of this story. It definitely sounds unreasonable, but it also sounds like an outlier — there are 400+ Apple stores.

There's a point of common sense vs abuse of power and many of these boards, HOA, etc all get drunk on their ability/power.

And corporations don't get drunk on power? Do I need to cite thousands of cases where corporations have blackmailed local governments into giving them tax breaks or other concessions by threatening to leave the area, resulting in the loss of hundreds or thousands of workers?

In the end, the tax revenue loss is what got the approval, so again, money is almost always the deciding factor

Yes, I realize that tax revenue is very often, maybe almost always, the deciding factor. That doesn't make it right. Why should one company dictate to the city what its regulations are? I certainly don't believe that governments are always right (far from it), but some people seem to assume that governments must always bow to corporations.

 

[tyson12zoll]

Bet all the ios 7 icon haters love this fugly fountain.

 

[Born Again]

Well u arm chair quarterbacks fortunately have zero say to what happens in San Francisco

 

[Newton70]

Look, I understand the need for planning commissions and the role they play. However, San Francisco maintains an elitist mentality even when common sense otherwise dictates. Beautiful city, horrible government.

 

[gnasher729]

How about relocate it to the steps of Town Hall?

If that fountain is a historic landmark, as some people claim, why not offer it to the highest bidder? I suppose _someone_ would be really happy to have a historic landmark move in front of their property?

 

[RCGMac]

If that fountain is a historic landmark, as some people claim, why not offer it to the highest bidder? I suppose _someone_ would be really happy to have a historic landmark move in front of their property?

If it is an official historical landmark you can't easily relocate it, if you do it will oftentimes lose it's historical designation. If you can move the landmark it is a pretty long process to do so.

 

[macs4nw]

.....Despite initial praise for the project from city officials, Apple's proposal rapidly drew criticism for a number of its features, including an 80-foot-long blank wall along Stockton Street and the apparent removal of a sculptural fountain currently located at the entrance stairway to a public plaza.....

.....The planners also suggest possibilities for improving the blank Stockton Street frontage, including adding windows or pulling back the storefront to allow for landscaping and perhaps public seating areas.....

Article Link: San Francisco Officials Suggest Significant Changes Needed for Apple's New Flagship Store Proposal

Gotta love the backbone of those city officials who initially praised the project, but now, after the proposals have rapidly drawn public criticism, want umpteen changes.

Still. I believe their concerns regarding the 80' wall can be met relatively easily. That 'Stockton' blank wall could have an iconic, eye-popping mural, that could even become a tourist attraction all by itself. As for the front facade, there's not a whole lot of room there, without it losing it's APPLE distinctiveness.

.....Despite all this, the city's top planner said Thursday that he sees no reason Apple can't build a modernistic metal-and-glass box within the historic setting of the Union Square retail district.....

So, there's hope of it surviving in its current form, relatively unscathed?

 

[charliex5]

"The city's planners object to the uniform wall of glass along the store's main frontage on Post Street, suggesting that Apple should do more to break up the wall by including colors or textures or vertical design elements."

How on earth did we get to the point where we think this is a proper function of government?

I'm an architect and have to deal often with stupid stuff like this. On the flip-side just think about how many absolutely horrible buildings could have been built without government review that would ruin neighborhoods, land values, and people's existing views. If the builder has a good reason and right to build what they want it typically just takes a little pushing to get the original design built anyway. Usually these suggestions help push the design a bit further too.

Read the quote again and you'll see that the city planners are objecting and suggesting, not necessarily dictating and commanding.

 

[japanime]

"The city's planners object to the uniform wall of glass along the store's main frontage on Post Street, suggesting that Apple should do more to break up the wall by including colors or textures or vertical design elements."

The front side of the building apparently will have the current white Apple logo. Why not place one of the old-school rainbow-colored Apple logos into the wall on that side of the building? I would love seeing that there.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I'm an architect and have to deal often with stupid stuff like this. On the flip-side just think about how many absolutely horrible buildings could have been built without government review that would ruin neighborhoods, land values, and people's existing views. If the builder has a good reason and right to build what they want it typically just takes a little pushing to get the original design built anyway. Usually these suggestions help push the design a bit further too.

Read the quote again and you'll see that the city planners are objecting and suggesting, not necessarily dictating and commanding.

Planners don't get to dictate or command anything, usually not even their own lunchtimes. They make recommendations. Public bodies decide.

 

[aristotle]

As someone who has sat through dozens and dozens of city council and planning commission meetings for my job, I can safely say that your comment makes you sound like a crazy person.

What facts, may I ask, did you base it on?

The current Mayor is a democrat.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Lee_(politician)

According to the links from this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Board_of_Supervisors

All but one of the members of the board have a declared party affiliation and the rest are declared as "Democrat".

Who is the crazy one?

So if you vote "Democrat" then this is the type of micro management that you get in return.

@RCGMac: What prevents a rendering plant beside your house is called "zoning". These people in the city government are trying to micromanage the design of a store.

 

[Osnabrueck]

Ugh, not this again.

There's nothing distinctive or historic about that nook of Union square - it looks like an unloved section of 80s megamall. The steps that flank the fountain are horrible and make everything surrounding it look bad.

Anyways - if the fountain gets some modern surroundings, Apple style, it could look quite nice. And yes, a big unbroken wall on Stockton won't look so great.

 

[charliex5]

Planners don't get to dictate or command anything, usually not even their own lunchtimes. They make recommendations. Public bodies decide.

Yeah! You get it!

 

[ThunderSkunk]

As much as it'd pain me to do, I'd side with the city on this one.
This design effort by Apples architects is uninspired to begin with, and creates more problems on the corner than it solves. This should have never made it out of the design phase, much less all the way into the bldg dept.

Regarding the posters who've never heard of the concept of how architecture works, thanks for the laugh. 20% of the job is actually designing something that makes your client happy, and 40% is convincing everyone else in the universe that your design embraces the functional and aesthetic spirit of the locale, and that it's going to improve the area for everyone, in every possible way, & not ruin their usability/view/property values/lives/etc. ...the last 40% involves lawyers when that doesn't work. ...expect it not to. The higher-traffic the site, the more intensely your design is critiqued.

 

[macs4nw]

.....On the flip-side just think about how many absolutely horrible buildings could have been built without government review that would ruin neighborhoods, land values, and people's existing views.....

That is true enough.

APPLE certainly has a reputation for building beautiful, well-thought-out stores, especially some of those historic building renovations, they've done in Europe. Maybe those city officials just shouldn't have come out so enthusiastically at first, before even studying the whole proposal.

It now makes them look like spineless, blow-where-the-political-wind-blows, lackeys.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah! You get it!

I used to be a city planner. I took up a different profession once I understood that nobody was in actually in favor of city planning. Practicing that profession reminded me of Harry Truman's quip about how his choice in life was to become either a politician or a piano player in a whorehouse.

BTW, Berman vs. Parker. For people who like to flap their yaps about how governments don't have any authority to regulate aesthetics.

 

[SvenSvenson]

It is standard procedure for city government to approve building developments. However if I were Apple, I would counter with minimal changes and if the city wants all of their edits I'd just build somewhere else. Government officials lack any vision in architectural design or creativity really, they're just addressing complaints from residents of the city.

Are you 12? "Aw - the planners have asked us to change the design. Well screw them - we'll take our shop elsewhere and forget about our profits because we can't have things 100% our own way"

They're adults - they'll talk. A compromise suitable to both parties will be reached.