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Santa Rosa-Based MacBook Pro 'Very Soon'... Next Week?
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New MBP very soon, hopefully a significant...
Yep! LED displays for the 15.4" MBP (for the 17", later), Santa-Rosa set (even if it's only around 2.4 ghz with an 800 mhz fsb), 4 mb L2 cache, hopefully with Robson (at least as an option), one of the new large (160 - 200 GB) 7,200 rpm Hitachi hard drives (with the option to get a 250GB 5,400 rpm drive installed), faster "super drive" (perhaps a blue-ray burner), minimum 2X usb 2, minimum 1X fw 400 and 1X fw 800 (unless they can include fw 800 to fw 400 plug adapter, then 2X fw 800), amongst many other things. Hopefully a better GPU with at least 512 MB VRam will also be on the menu for this release. I've checked out a few of the new Santa Rosa Wintel notebooks getting ready to ship and a number of the top ones are shipping with higher end GPU's with 512 mb of VRam. If Apple doesn't do the GPU leap, I'll be quite disappointed. I thinks it's time for that leap. Well, we have a little more time to dream.
Yep! LED displays for the 15.4" MBP (for the 17", later), Santa-Rosa set (even if it's only around 2.4 ghz with an 800 mhz fsb), 4 mb L2 cache, hopefully with Robson (at least as an option), one of the new large (160 - 200 GB) 7,200 rpm Hitachi hard drives (with the option to get a 250GB 5,400 rpm drive installed), faster "super drive" (perhaps a blue-ray burner), minimum 2X usb 2, minimum 1X fw 400 and 1X fw 800 (unless they can include fw 800 to fw 400 plug adapter, then 2X fw 800), amongst many other things. Hopefully a better GPU with at least 512 MB VRam will also be on the menu for this release. I've checked out a few of the new Santa Rosa Wintel notebooks getting ready to ship and a number of the top ones are shipping with higher end GPU's with 512 mb of VRam. If Apple doesn't do the GPU leap, I'll be quite disappointed. I thinks it's time for that leap. Well, we have a little more time to dream.
Good to see some fellow Red Sox fans here 
You seem to have similar concerns about the MBP as I do. I play Battlefield 2 all the time and I'm dying to see a 512MB video card in the MBP. Thing is, what if the default GPU has 256MB and the 512 is an upgrade option... If so, that could make it utterly unaffordable. And I need 512MB of video... The other thing I'm hoping they do is upgrade the HD's to 7,200 RPM. And it would be nice to see the 200GB HD as a not-too-expensive upgrade option, although this isn't absolutely necessary. But I'm gonna have Mac OS X and Windows Vista installed on it, so I want plenty of room.
And Robson would just be awesome. Anyone know if you can boot both Mac OS and Vista from Robson? Or is it just one or the other?
You seem to have similar concerns about the MBP as I do. I play Battlefield 2 all the time and I'm dying to see a 512MB video card in the MBP. Thing is, what if the default GPU has 256MB and the 512 is an upgrade option... If so, that could make it utterly unaffordable. And I need 512MB of video... The other thing I'm hoping they do is upgrade the HD's to 7,200 RPM. And it would be nice to see the 200GB HD as a not-too-expensive upgrade option, although this isn't absolutely necessary. But I'm gonna have Mac OS X and Windows Vista installed on it, so I want plenty of room.
And Robson would just be awesome. Anyone know if you can boot both Mac OS and Vista from Robson? Or is it just one or the other?
Thoughts that I hope are wrong!
Here are a couple of thoughts regarding the release of an updated MBP.
1) Making the assumption that the update is more than a simple speed bump to the cpu.
a) If the update incorporates substantial hardware improvements. (ie: Robson caching, higher display resolution, significantly faster and more powerful GPU, etc)
AND
b) If the updated architecture requires specialized drivers to be written.
AND
c) Given the fact that the Leopard release has been pushed back to October.
THEN
2) A reasonable conclusion would be that the upgraded MBP will also not ship until Leopard releases because the drivers for the new hardware have not yet been completed.
ALTERNATIVELY
3) Apple will do a MINOR hardware refresh, (possibly a cpu speed bump to 2.4 Ghz) along with more memory, and have that release around WWDC.
Any thoughts on this?
[EDIT/] As Erasmus has pointed out a 2.4 Ghz version of the Merom cpu is not possible without the Santa Rosa platform [/EDIT]
Here are a couple of thoughts regarding the release of an updated MBP.
1) Making the assumption that the update is more than a simple speed bump to the cpu.
a) If the update incorporates substantial hardware improvements. (ie: Robson caching, higher display resolution, significantly faster and more powerful GPU, etc)
AND
b) If the updated architecture requires specialized drivers to be written.
AND
c) Given the fact that the Leopard release has been pushed back to October.
THEN
2) A reasonable conclusion would be that the upgraded MBP will also not ship until Leopard releases because the drivers for the new hardware have not yet been completed.
ALTERNATIVELY
3) Apple will do a MINOR hardware refresh, (possibly a cpu speed bump to 2.4 Ghz) along with more memory, and have that release around WWDC.
Any thoughts on this?
[EDIT/] As Erasmus has pointed out a 2.4 Ghz version of the Merom cpu is not possible without the Santa Rosa platform [/EDIT]
I doubt these two scenarios for several reasons. (Keep in mind, though, that the new MBP will be my first Mac, so I am by no means an experienced Mac user.) It's been 7 months since the last MBP update, and this (May) is later in the year than any other update for MBP's in the past; all other updates have come by April of earlier years. Therefore, if there really is going to be no update until October, one would think they would have to at least announce the new MBP's at WWDC, simply because everybody would be wondering what the hell is going on with them otherwise. But then again, that wouldn't make sense, because it would harm MBP sales until October.
Additionally, if Apple has already prepared all the hardware for the new MBP's by now, there is no way they would wait until October to release it. If all it takes is writing a few new drivers for Tiger to accommodate the new hardware, they could easily do that now.
In the alternative case that they only are doing a minor hardware refresh, they would have released it by now. Why wait 7 months after the last update? Also, what specs would they upgrade in a 'minor' update? If I understand correctly, the only way to bump the CPU speed at all is to use Santa Rosa, which in itself is a big deal. And if they upgrade the GPU, that's a big update in itself also. They could make the HD's bigger, but they're not going to announce an update to just the MBP HD's. Basically, there is no chance that the MBP would wait for an update this long just for a minor upgrade. Especially when the highest-end MacBook has a bigger hard drive and a better SuperDrive than the lowest-end MBP, yet still costs $500 less.
All the other points are valid, save this one. Yes, new drivers will be required, but santa rosa is an updated rather than completely revamped architecture, so drivers shouldn't have an effect on time (even with just the hardware specs, which intel must have had finalised for quite some time now, significant progress can be made on driver work).
Still, the only really significant change (futureproof wise) would be a new GPU with a unified shader model, and the addition of flash memory. All the others, like LED screens and faster CPUs are nice to have, but will not take away greatly from your experience in say three years' time, in terms of a program not running or barely running. Atleast in the world of video games (now becoming important with the increased use of core video) I remember having a voodoo 3 which had no hardware T&L support, and seeing countless "error: no HW T&L detected" dialogs with games. It is unfortunate that 7 years after the voodoo 3 the macbook (and the hundreds of its equivalent pc brethren) *still* can't manage what is now an afterthought for even $30 video cards.
I am really hoping that this isn't how it works out though, October is too damn late, I have uni to go to in September, but your idea works just too well with the apple tendency of streeeetching hardware with little bumps and tweaks here and there every few months.
A CPU refresh (as in just a little faster, 2.33 Ghz jumping to a whopping 2.4 Ghz) would not require the implementation of any of the Santa Rosa platform architectures.
A side note here;
Apple is not on the list that Intel released late last year of the companies that were going to be jumping on the Santa Rosa platform.
HOWEVER
This does not mean that Apple won't be utilizing some of the technologies that have been developed for Santa Rosa (as in Robson, faster fsb, etc).
I'm sorry, but your entire post is screwy.
Firstly, the 2.4GHz Merom will only work on the Santa Rosa platform. Different pin compatibility. The speed increase is not just 2.33 to 2.4, but FSB speeds increase from 667 to 800 MHz. This will improve performance in lots of areas, but also enables the use of faster RAM, even though it's not available at the moment.
So to get 2.4GHz, the MBP needs Santa Rosa.
Of course Apple isn't going to be on the list of Intel's Santa Rosa users. That would tell the world that Apple intends to use it.
Apple WILL use Santa Rosa, it doesn't matter what some stupid list from Intel says.
And what Santa Rosa technologies can be used without Santa Rosa? You can't have a 800MHz FSB without Santa Rosa, nor Turbo Memory (Robson).
No Santa Rosa also means no X3100 integrated graphics processor upgrade in the Macbooks.
No Santa Rosa means no 2.2 / 2.4GHz CPUs, no 800MHz FSB, no Turbo Memory. Other things, like LED/LCD screens and better GPUs aren't dependent on Santa Rosa, but that's different, and they weren't mentioned in your post.
Hmmm, you're right about that one, I just went and checked a published roadmap which lists the Merom 4m at 2.4 Ghz under the Santa Rosa column. Thanks for the correction.
WILL use?? that is an assertion, the best that can be said is they MIGHT use.
With respect, I disagree with this statement. There can be utilization of technology improvements without the incorporation of the entire platform.
See my post above (post # 283 point a)
Technically it is they "might" use it, but Santa Rosa is the next step in the Intel mobile platform, and if they don't use it, then there can be no more upgrades until Montevina next spring. And I highly doubt that Apple won't update their computers for another year.
Exactly. Saying they "might" use it is kind of silly. Sure they could just use the same hardware for two years, but...
Right now Dell, HP, and Gateway has the new processors in thier computers. I just think that Apple, by making people wait for thier big media events, appear to lag behind. It also makes it look like they have problems getting things off the paper and into production. Is the silence because they have so many delays it cannot be called a delay if you never announced it or is it purely for the buzz or is the buzz just a byproduct of a inability to bring products to market hidden behind secrecy.
Can you feel my displeasure and anger with Apple right now, I NEED A LAPTOP AND I REFUSE TO WASTE MY MONEY ON SOMETHING YOU WILL OUT DATE IN A COUPLE WEEKS!
Can you feel my displeasure and anger with Apple right now, I NEED A LAPTOP AND I REFUSE TO WASTE MY MONEY ON SOMETHING YOU WILL OUT DATE IN A COUPLE WEEKS!
Well, to be fair, Dell also only has low end laptops with the new chipset. The e1705 and m1710 are still using the old stuff.
One hypothesis I've come up with is that Dell is waiting for the Geforce 8800GTX, so they can update the m1710 all at once, and then use a lower end part for the e1705 (either an 8600GT or 8800GTS...hopefully the latter).
Right now I'm not sure what Dell would put in their systems, since the 8600GT is at best just about the same performance as a mid-range 7900GS.
Apple doesn't have that issue...since they're currently using all low end GPUs!
One hypothesis I've come up with is that Dell is waiting for the Geforce 8800GTX, so they can update the m1710 all at once, and then use a lower end part for the e1705 (either an 8600GT or 8800GTS...hopefully the latter).
Right now I'm not sure what Dell would put in their systems, since the 8600GT is at best just about the same performance as a mid-range 7900GS.
Apple doesn't have that issue...since they're currently using all low end GPUs!
Just monitoring a couple of large retail fronts in the US right now:
As others have rightfully pointed out, BestBuy has removed the 15.4" MacBook Pro from their website as of last week. The 17" MacBook Pro now shows up as Sold Out - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8154953&st=MacBook+Pro&type=product&id=1161734372154
At CompUSA's online store, both 15.4" MacBook Pros are listed as Sold Out. Some units appear to be available in stores.
http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...l&product_code=343138&Pn=MacBook_Pro_Notebook
http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...l&product_code=343136&Pn=MacBook_Pro_Notebook
The 17" MacBook Pro, however, is still available at CompUSA's online store.
Perhaps we'll see the MBP get updated before WWDC just yet..
As others have rightfully pointed out, BestBuy has removed the 15.4" MacBook Pro from their website as of last week. The 17" MacBook Pro now shows up as Sold Out - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8154953&st=MacBook+Pro&type=product&id=1161734372154
At CompUSA's online store, both 15.4" MacBook Pros are listed as Sold Out. Some units appear to be available in stores.
http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...l&product_code=343138&Pn=MacBook_Pro_Notebook
http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...l&product_code=343136&Pn=MacBook_Pro_Notebook
The 17" MacBook Pro, however, is still available at CompUSA's online store.
Perhaps we'll see the MBP get updated before WWDC just yet..
I sure hope so. If it's next week, I'd still have time to order it during vacation (so I can actually accept delivery!)
That's exactly what I'm aiming for as well. US prices after rebate are far cheaper than anything I find around here. An update at WWDC means that I have to wait until August to purchase
I just took a look at the Canadian BestBuy site as well as Future Shop. Both of those sites still show some inventory although those numbers are low. Some of the store locations are reporting 'out of stock'. Part of the problem with this is that I don't know what the 'normal' inventory load would be.
Compusmart, which also carries Apple products, is showing MBP's as 'Available soon' or 'Shipping in 15 days'.
It would be nice if this was an indicator that upgrades are coming.....
begins breaking out in sweat...
I really really want this to arrive, I have been waiting for four years. For me this is the perfect upgrade because of the very nice advances in technology and the screen, yet not of the major evolutionary scale that is to come in about a year, which I would like to see play out just a bit before jumping in.
I really really want this to arrive, I have been waiting for four years. For me this is the perfect upgrade because of the very nice advances in technology and the screen, yet not of the major evolutionary scale that is to come in about a year, which I would like to see play out just a bit before jumping in.
The X1600 is NOT a low end GPU. It is designed for "performance thin" notebooks, which is what the MBP is. If anything, it is a mid range card. The X1400 is a low end card. An X1800, X1900 or X1950 is not "compatible" with the MBP. (Insert multiple equivalent nvidia cards here)
The X1600 is still a great card because of its very low TDP and decent performance. It will not be anything but a great low power card until the 8600M and Mobility HD2600 series are actually released, as in you can get notebooks with them in it. Which you can't yet. When you can, Apple will replace the X1600 with something newer, that is better suited for the job.
The NVidias are already shipping. The new ATIs are shipping in laptops beginning in late May.
On nvidias website, it lists two notebooks (total) that feature the 8600GS. None with the GT. The GT is better.
I am aware that ATI claim notebooks will ship this month. I've quoted it before.
But the fact remains, none of these cards were available at all just a few days ago, and today, they only exist in two notebook models.
The point is the X1600 is not crap. To be crap, it has to be able to be beaten by something, and at the moment, it really doesn't have much competition, and certainly didn't a few months ago. It will hopefully have lots of competition when new 15.4" MBPs are released in a few weeks with the Mobility HD 2600 XT 512MB, but that's a different story.
Performance aside; to my eyes ATI chip produces better picture than nVidia or integrated Intel whatever. It reminds me of Matrox Millenium 10 years ago compared to "the rest", the picture of a Matrox was stunning!
Then again, many times people who buy ATI chips also buy better displays too. Nonetheless, it is the picture quality that counts. Performance is secondary.
Then again, many times people who buy ATI chips also buy better displays too. Nonetheless, it is the picture quality that counts. Performance is secondary.
I've never seen that. It depends on the quality of the card, not really whether it's using ATi or Nvidia hardware. And apparently the x1600 Macbook Pro is causing visual artifacts taht aren't present in the Macbook.
And ATi's drivers have been junk for most of their existence.
And ATi's drivers have been junk for most of their existence.
I hope soon. I have the money saved up and am waiting to buy. Please announce something by WWDC. It's a simple request. I hope it's as impressive as that Intel laptop though.
The thing is whatever it is it's not going to be a new MBP book in 2 monhts time, it's going to be on sale the next day, I will be supprised if it's some major revolutionary technology, I'm thinking Santa Rosa, LED screens , slightly better GFX and that's probably it, maybe NAND
I really hope we see a 12inch model with a high res screen, that'll make my day, I used to have a 12inch powerbook and loved it to bits, don't really understand why I got rid of it
Hense my return to apple
I really hope we see a 12inch model with a high res screen, that'll make my day, I used to have a 12inch powerbook and loved it to bits, don't really understand why I got rid of it
Hense my return to apple