Schiller on Apple's Yearly Product Timelines

[segfaultdotorg]

"...having to come up with a 'dazzling' show each January was unsustainable."

There you have it. Apple has admitted that they've created all of the blockbuster products they're capable of creating. We are now at the pinnacle of technology and little improvement is possible. You can expect incremental updates a couple of times a year. Something along the lines of a new trackpad for the MacBook or new iPhone firmware.

 

[Uroboros]

Hear, hear

The Mac Pro / workstation roadmap isn't Apple's to give. That is Intel's playground and as no vendor has said when Gainestown workstations are comming out you can't blame that on Apple.

Let me respectfully disagree.

Certainly processor bumps are driven by availability from Intel, but as many have mentioned, there are those of us (I'm in the film/video world) that are trying to keep up with staggering increases in data rates. It's ridiculous that Apple is stepping away from firewire ports without having enabled e-sata on their mobile line.

(Yep e-sata's current implementation can't be bus powered, but give me two FW 800 ports, and I can power the e-sata drive from one of them.)

The OS single PCI stream problem is an OS issue, not a hardware issue, and frankly blu-ray being a bag of hurt is a load of crap.

Our PC based edit stations have been doing blu-ray for more than a year, and Kona cards on the PC support multiple streams today.

While we can and do build h.264 based blu-ray iso images on the Mac (Encore CS4), we end up moving those giant files to our PC's to burn the disks. (And no I DON'T want to add yet another AC adapter and external case to my edit bay, and I shouldn't have to)

Their raid card is a joke, and there are only four bays available in the tower without having to add an expensive noisy space wasting box to get to a larger array.

I love the Mac, consumer mac's rule, my MacBook pro is used a great deal for edit via (e-sata via Express Card 34), but that's not going to work for much longer given 2k proxies etc. And the Mac Pro in particular is really lagging its PC brethren, and oh yeah, and the displays still aren't generally hdcp compliant yet, and few support dual-link.

The folks who opine that the professional side of the house is asleep at the switch have a legitimate point.

Don't even get me started on the sever.

You think I'm running Win2k8 server because I want to?

I for one NEED more horsepower and especially more IO. PC laptops are available with two drive bays and raid today.

More IO options are available on consumer level PC motherboards and have been for a long time, (8 sata or sas ports on server boards, raid chips) as have cases that support 8 drives with nice quite fans in a box similar in size to the MacPro.

It's not just about Intel...

 

[oopscdaz@mac.co]

Are you kidding?

Finally... the truth!

I have to say though, they could have just moved Macworld to a different month. IMG would have agreed, so that's obviously not the issue. I guess it really is that trade shows dont matter anymore...

The Truth????
So they don't have enough time to go to Mac World but DO to CES?????
At one time, Apple NEEDED us.....but now, all they are doing is extending the middle finger of either hand at us

The Truth indeed...

 

[wonderbread57]

Truth? You want the troooth? YOOUUU CANNT HAAANNDLE THE TROOOOTH!!
-Jobs

 

[tekboi]

The Truth????
So they don't have enough time to go to Mac World but DO to CES?????
At one time, Apple NEEDED us.....but now, all they are doing is extending the middle finger of either hand at us

The Truth indeed...

^^^ Wow, that's exactly what I was thinking. All the talk about what customers want and delivering them just went out of the window after apple started to dominate.

 

[MattInOz]

So where do the Computers list in this timeline???

Well iMac's Novemberish
MacBooks late summer

MacPro's on intel time but he's not going to say that.

 

[MasterNile]

Well iMac's Novemberish
MacBooks late summer

MacPro's on intel time but he's not going to say that.

And don't forget the Mac Mini is when hell freezes over...
j/k...I hope

 

[SFStateStudent]

Well, it would be rather dumb to have MWSF '10 in November, b/c that would be (20-21, thereabouts) months between MW events. So, do we want to wait until November '10? Either way I've already registered for next year's MWSF '10, hopefully it's next January...

 

[flottenheimer]

...THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT COMPUTERS ANYMORE, IT SEEMS TO BE AS SIDENOTE TO THE HOTCAKES THAT ARE IPODS/PHONES. And it's sad. They care just enough to keep selling but not that much, that's why no mention of them in product cycles...

Relax. A few months ago Apple released a brand new 13" MacBook and a 15" MacBook Pro. The refinement and sublime attention to detail in these product have clearly taken a long time and a lot of dedication. MacBooks are indeed computers.
A few days ago Apple introduced the completely redesigned 17" MacBook Pro. That's another computer for you.
On the *computer* software side Apple just released iLife '09 and iWork '09. And they are hard at work on a brand new version of OS X.

At the end of the year, I'm sure iMacs, MacPros and MacMinis will all have been seriously updated or completely redesigned/redefined.
Apple cares a lot about computers. Clearly.

 

[harrye123]

Relax. A few months ago Apple released a brand new 13" MacBook and a 15" MacBook Pro. The refinement and sublime attention to detail in these product have clearly taken a long time and a lot of dedication. MacBooks are indeed computers.
A few days ago Apple introduced the completely redesigned 17" MacBook Pro. That's another computer for you.
On the *computer* software side Apple just released iLife '09 and iWork '09. And they are hard at work on a brand new version of OS X.

At the end of the year, I'm sure iMacs, MacPros and MacMinis will all have been seriously updated or completely redesigned/redefined.
Apple cares a lot about computers. Clearly.

I am overeacting you are right, but not without at least sufficient cause, there are more a computer company can do than release a couple of new notebooks and some minor updates to their software suits.

 

[crezo]

people are forgetting what they already have!!

I really have to say that people seem to be getting ridiculously worked up.

The reason apple are so successful is that they cover the main 4 bases with their machines, the basic mini, mid range imac, powerhouse that is the macpro and the laptops.

It was only last year that most of the main machines were updated. The imacs are a good spec, and as a middleweight machine more than capable. The laptops have just had a huge overhaul and agin the specs are great. The Mac Pros are now insanely fast with 3.2ghz quad cores, and 32gb of ram.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?!!

If you want a mega powerful games machine, by a PC or a console and quite bitching! There just isn't enough decent games software out there for macs, and probably never will be.

The main reason Apple are so successful is that they stick to what works, and what people love. If you want Apple to diversify and have 6 or 7 different machines, that get updated and 'made obsolete' as people keep putting it every 6 they will end up struggling financially like many other companies, then you'd just end up bitching that you machine that is only 0.2ghz slower than the latest release is now 'obsolete' so they can't win.

They are focusing on releasing products that are upgraded WHEN there is a point in upgrading... ie when the new technology becomes available,when they are tested and ready for market. Not when yearly shows roll round, they are forced into minor upgrades and releasing products that are not properly tested or ready for market.

Appreciate what machines you have now, we use G5 mac pros with 5gb or ram at work and they are FINE for some quite complex graphic work. We will be upgrading them when the need arrises, right now it isn't.

Stop being upgrade whores and appreciate the fast, well made and reliable machines you already have.

... all except the mini users, who have every right to bitch and moan as I see it

having said that though, I am now sacking off my current knackered vista 64 machine and buying a macmini tonight. It will do everything I want it to, and with an HD upgrade and 3gig of ram it will be fine for my day to day use and graphic work. Yes a new one will no doubt be out this year based on the current macbook specs, and if I find the current mini too slow I will upgrade next year, but quit waiting to buy a machine based on ever bs rumor. THE CURRENT LINE UP IS GREAT, and that's why there is no need to update them every six months.

God this is getting boring!

 

[Bubba Satori]

Exactly. The Mac release cycle is tied to Intel's development cycle for the most part.


Lethal

If it was, we would have had consumer quadcore desktops with modern video cards a year ago.

 

[kastenbrust]

THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT COMPUTERS ANYMORE, IT SEEMS TO BE AS SIDENOTE TO THE HOTCAKES THAT ARE IPODS/PHONES.

Which is why Apple is investing hundreds of millions of $$ in a new operating system called Snow Leopard. Which is why Apple sells one of the most powerful manurfactured PC's in the world. Which is why Apple sells the sexiest portable laptop in the world. Which is why Apple sells one of the most advanced desktop replacement laptops in the world, with dual graphics cards. Which is why Apple patents hundreds of new ways to advance and develop their computer range every year, multi touch pads, notebook liquid cooling etc. Which is why Apple is pushing the boundaries of litium battery technology.

Actually you know what, it seems like they care too much about computers and not about their other products

 

[jrougeux]

I really have to say that people seem to be getting ridiculously worked up.

The reason apple are so successful is that they cover the main 4 bases with their machines, the basic mini, mid range imac, powerhouse that is the macpro and the laptops.

It was only last year that most of the main machines were updated. The imacs are a good spec, and as a middleweight machine more than capable. The laptops have just had a huge overhaul and agin the specs are great. The Mac Pros are now insanely fast with 3.2ghz quad cores, and 32gb of ram.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?!!

If you want a mega powerful games machine, by a PC or a console and quite bitching! There just isn't enough decent games software out there for macs, and probably never will be.

The main reason Apple are so successful is that they stick to what works, and what people love. If you want Apple to diversify and have 6 or 7 different machines, that get updated and 'made obsolete' as people keep putting it every 6 they will end up struggling financially like many other companies, then you'd just end up bitching that you machine that is only 0.2ghz slower than the latest release is now 'obsolete' so they can't win.

They are focusing on releasing products that are upgraded WHEN there is a point in upgrading... ie when the new technology becomes available,when they are tested and ready for market. Not when yearly shows roll round, they are forced into minor upgrades and releasing products that are not properly tested or ready for market.

Appreciate what machines you have now, we use G5 mac pros with 5gb or ram at work and they are FINE for some quite complex graphic work. We will be upgrading them when the need arrises, right now it isn't.

Stop being upgrade whores and appreciate the fast, well made and reliable machines you already have.

... all except the mini users, who have every right to bitch and moan as I see it

having said that though, I am now sacking off my current knackered vista 64 machine and buying a macmini tonight. It will do everything I want it to, and with an HD upgrade and 3gig of ram it will be fine for my day to day use and graphic work. Yes a new one will no doubt be out this year based on the current macbook specs, and if I find the current mini too slow I will upgrade next year, but quit waiting to buy a machine based on ever bs rumor. THE CURRENT LINE UP IS GREAT, and that's why there is no need to update them every six months.

God this is getting boring!

RIGHT ON!

If what you have works for you - what difference does it make if there is a faster/better/cooler machine out there? My Powerbook G4 is a GREAT computer, as is *ancient*2-year old 80GB iPod! (In all fairness, my new alum iMac is pretty sweet too )

 

[CyberBob859]

Obsolete? Really? Mind giving it to me then?

In the music world, I've been working on a daily basis with G4s (yes, dual g4 machines) in studios - and they work great. What does your son do that is so intensive that the macbook is now obsolete?

Most professional studios still use G4 and G5 computers - I find it amusing when I come here and listen to college going kids talking about needing a 8 core macbook so they can take notes and chat on facebook

This is precisely the reason why Apple is (increasingly) catering to the the consumer crowd and devoting less time and resources to professionals.

They can sell (and upsell) 10x or maybe 20x more, and in a year or so, do the same thing all over again.

 

[johnpaul191]

he gave those as "ish" dates. MacWorld 2010 has been booked for a long time. When you walk out of a MacWorld Expo, there is a banner saying "Come join us again January XX 2010". That means Apple has a deadline that was set by a 3rd party well over a year in advance. If they fail to dazzle the crowd, the stock takes a hit. No other tech company is in the same situation. Look how long MS and Sony had delays on their game systems, or other flagship products.
Apple's rough product cycles are not set in stone. Those press events usually are a secret till *maybe* a week in advance. They have the event when everything is perfect, and theoretically they can wait till the product is ready to sell. I know there were a few MacWorlds in the past that announced a product that was literally not available for something like 6 weeks. It was a laptop or desktop machine, so it was the kind of thing that killed existing sales. It was not like the AppleTV or iPhone that were new products (and not screw sales of existing units).
Apple also doesn't need the public to come ohh and ahhh over the devices because frankly they will get a better experience in an Apple store.
CES is more for company people to talk to dealers about what will be out that year.... or even just down the road. Not sure how that works for Apple considering they do most of their own distribution on the complicated products, or train the sales staff better than a trade show floor chit chat session. I suppose it could be some way to carve out some turf with iPhones, iPods and maybe the under-appreciated AppleTVs? seems odd.

 

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Phil just stated the obvious, but he had to.

So many folks run around making stuff up that once they truth is stated it sounds amazing. But anyone who's paid attention to the facts (and not just rumors) could have told you this exact same timeline.



The reason that computers aren't on there is that they come out whenever the new parts come out, year-round. There's not a single "computer season."

Apple is clearly making the iMac and Mini wait for something (probably processros, but it could be anything) before they upgrade them. Yet another reason why set shows are annoying to Apple.

My guess is that they're waiting to do an across the board move to Intel i7 since there's already i7 machines shipping (my pal just bought a Dell PC with one for Christmas, he's a Windows guy through and through...) but Apple is not amongst the vendors shipping them yet (everything is still Core2-based). I half expected Apple to push the MB and MBP to i7 and was shocked when they didn't but either the i7 parts available are not laptop-savvy yet or Apple is holding out until the pricing drops enough (even in volume purchase) to use them across the board.

Makes sense... the Mac Pro and mini = the 2 most outdated in terms of how long the tech has been on the market (iMac was shifted from plastic to aluminum last year, and speed bumped later in the year... mini hasn't seen a major architecture/design change in yeeeeeears... Mac Pro has been upgraded significantly inside but the casing has roots in the G5 era). Considering how long Apple seemingly prefers to milk the mini's R&D investment in terms of how often the upgrade/wholesale redesign the board (very rare)... holding out for i7 would give the platform more legs between updates.

The i7-based Xeon platform is scheduled to ship this year (I think Intel announced it recently so give/take a few months). I figure Apple is waiting for the full i7 platform to ship before jumping ship to the new architecture. The thing about i7 is that it uses a different socket and memory controller scheme (more like AMD's, separate from the processor) and therefore any commitment by Apple would likely find them switching much of their lineup simultaneously. You also don't want to ship desktop i7's and have them outperforming the legacy Xeon parts in the Pro's (not saying you can remotely compare an iMac or mini to a Pro in featureset... but Pro's still want grunt power and the last thing you want is the i7 consumer machines outrunning the Xeon... not that I necessarily believe i7 would as it's considered more modest to the high end Core 2 Quad's in performance vs. a quantum leap [which the rumors/calculations supposedly have the Xeon doing]) or else Mac Pro users will get restless over the lack of bump.

My guess is... we'll see the mini and iMac change before too long but in a timeframe closer to when the Mac Pro is changed. I almost expect we'll see a Macbook and Macbook Pro upgrade to i7 at some point this year too... likely in the same *new* enclosures. Granted, in Apple's tendencies they seem to artificially hold launches to prevent irate customers. If Apple released on a more PC-friendly timescale (i.e. like Dell, Gateway, HP, Toshiba, Acer, et al. do), Apple would pretty much bump the machines multiple times a year with no announcement or fanfare. Apple though... whenever there's a bump (i.e. the unannounced Mac mini G4 speedbump), the community makes a huge ordeal out of it. Sometimes the dramatics of the Mac community, IMHO, is one of it's greatest achilles heels towards seamless continuity in the tech sector. Apple tends to protect itself and it's customers, as a result, from the shell-shock that time marches on. Whether that's a positive or a negative is dependent on what your preference is in terms of getting bang for the buck on a timely scale vs. watching dramatic boosts between Mac machine x and Mac machine x+1, y, and/or z.

 

[Eric S.]

The reason apple are so successful is that they cover the main 4 bases with their machines, the basic mini, mid range imac, powerhouse that is the macpro and the laptops.

It was only last year that most of the main machines were updated. The imacs are a good spec, and as a middleweight machine more than capable. The laptops have just had a huge overhaul and agin the specs are great. The Mac Pros are now insanely fast with 3.2ghz quad cores, and 32gb of ram.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?!!

I want my expandable, upgradeable midrange tower.

 

[Tallest Skil]

I half expected Apple to push the MB and MBP to i7 and was shocked when they didn't but either the i7 parts available are not laptop-savvy yet or Apple is holding out until the pricing drops enough (even in volume purchase) to use them across the board.

There won't be laptop chips until Q4 2009.

The i7-based Xeon platform is scheduled to ship this year (I think Intel announced it recently so give/take a few months).

Production starts this month.

I figure Apple is waiting for the full i7 platform to ship before jumping ship to the new architecture.

WHY. They'd be waiting until October to update ANYTHING else.

therefore any commitment by Apple would likely find them switching much of their lineup simultaneously.

Why? They use Penryn in the iMac, pre-Penryn in the Mac Mini, and Montevina-clocked chips in the MacBook line.

You also don't want to ship desktop i7's and have them outperforming the legacy Xeon parts in the Pro's (not saying you can remotely compare an iMac or mini to a Pro in featureset... but Pro's still want grunt power and the last thing you want is the i7 consumer machines outrunning the Xeon...

Not a problem, because Apple doesn't use ANY desktop chips.

I almost expect we'll see a Macbook and Macbook Pro upgrade to i7 at some point this year too...

It would be November at the earliest.

likely in the same *new* enclosures.

They kept the last ones for six years, so yes.

 

[imacme]

I agree that people are reading too much into this. The Pogue post is so vague as to be almost entirely useless.

But I do think it's a shame that Apple's infrequent product updates and refusal to adjust prices to reflect them (i.e. selling a year-old product for the same price as its initial release) doesn't seem to affect consumers more. Perhaps if more people refused to buy Apple computers when they start to become dated (especially when the competition continues to release updated specs), they'd actually have some incentive to get new products to market sooner.

Yes, I've heard the argument that Apple products need less frequent updates because they're better to start with, but going a year -- or more, in the case of the Mini -- without updating while keeping prices high doesn't show much respect for their customers.

 

[NT1440]

I am overeacting you are right, but not without at least sufficient cause, there are more a computer company can do than release a couple of new notebooks and some minor updates to their software suits.

Yet, they dont HAVE to.

Also, do you see computers in there name at all?

 

[ibosie]

Indeed.

Bloody hell! Phil comes clean.

There's going to be hell to pay once Stevo gets back from R&R…

Maybe he won't come back. I like the openess of Schiller to the paranoia of Jobs actually.

 

[NT1440]

Maybe he won't come back. I like the openess of Schiller to the paranoia of Jobs actually.

He is still CEO, he hasnt gone anywhere. All he has done is NOT do the keynote.

Why people think hes off somewhere laying in a hospital bed or something is beyond me.

Again, HE IS STILL CEO, he has not gone anywhere.

 

[heisetax]

Its been a few years since any of the keynotes were really neat. I don't care to see keynotes about iPods & iPhones as they aren't really full time or even part time Macs in some cases.

MacWorld iis about the community, not about Steve Jobs or an lame Apple keynote. Thsi last one was so, so, so lame that Steve Jobs the "Used Car Salesman? could not even in his lowest give it. Phil must have drawn short straw or did something wron that he had to give it. Over an hour talking about a program that will not ship for another month, very little to say about some changed shipping software,a little to say about a dumbed down 17" Intel MacBook Pro, then a short mention of a change in the iTunes Music Store. Because of all the problems with OS 10.5l, like missing the original ship date by over 6 months, then shipping something that should have been delayed a few more months, showing OS 10.5 at 2 straight Developer's Confernces with little new to show a year later; Apple is smartly being very quiet about the OS 10.6 update that sounds as if it should really only be a point update of 10.5, Remember it is said by Apple that it is mainly speed & stability changes. Most of the time in the past software companies will make those kinds of changes free changes. Using a name such as Snow Leopard shows that Apple is really treating the change as a OS 10.5 update & not a true OS 10.6 upgrade.

So bring on the great 3rd party Mac Developers. An Apple store visit is in no way anything other than seeing a lot of Mac hardware in one place. The local, 12 miles away, Apple store has very little in the line of 3rd party items. A local furniture & electronics store called Nebraska Furniture Mart has an Apple display nearly as nice as the Apple store plus it is only 2 miles away & will make you deals. The Apple store has the so called Genius Bar, but my Intel Mac Pro ills was dianosed by a MacWorld article over 14 months ago, finally agreed with my Apple telephone tech support, wrong video card replaced by the local Apple store, a third party repair company was sent to my home to make the correct repair. So how can anyone at Apple call trips to the Apple store as having MacWorld Expos.

My ethernet problems was no where & in no way dianosed &/or repaired at the local Apple store. It was done with 3rd party computer equipment & one of my customers help that has had a Mac like me since 1984.

One trip to Mac World would be like a thousand or more trips to an Apple store. So I think that MacWorld is still ahead in real quality. But the Apple product line has become a pretty trinket line, so they probably felt out of place at an Expo that was about getting the job done, not about pretty trinkets. This is even though the expo was really about the Mac, the now to be absent displayer.

Even though Apple may not be there in person as a company, many of their products will be there as the many great third party developers will be there using Mac products in their displays. Apple & Mac advertising as no cost to Apple.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Why people think hes off somewhere laying in a hospital bed or something is beyond me.

While I personally do NOT defend the incapacitated Jobs theory, the last time he told the public anything about his health was in a letter addressed to only the staff at Apple ending with, "I'm posting this from my hospital bed on my 17" PowerBook G4 with an AirPort Express".