Hate how Apple pinned the Apple Maps disaster on this guy.
Isn't everything the CEO's fault in the end?
Isn't everything the CEO's fault in the end?
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Scott Forstall to Discuss Creation of iPhone at Computer History Museum Next Week
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Forstall and team brought us the huge leap in user interfaces from old style keyboard phones to multitouch swipes and taps.
Best you do your research and look at the timeline again and see the hero Forstall was.
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It really was a collective mess in my opinion. Apple rushed a launch of a product that clearly wasn't ready. Forstall seemed to become the scapegoat. Apple does have a seedy culture of bullying. That's why so many talented engineers and designers end up leaving.
What's your source for he was bullied out of Apple?
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Er, who are you referring to? Jony Ive doesn't present on stage.
Yes! This is amazing! Scott Forstall is the real father of iOS, he put Unix in our pockets! Looking forward to the video while we patiently wait the second coming of Scott to save Apple from crappy software and colorful underpowered Macs! Opaque volumen UI 3 years in the making I'm talking to you, how can Apple ship opaque obstructing volumen UI? FCOL
With respect to the MacPro Craig Federighi specifically said they didn't come up with a shape and then try and fit a computer into it. And it was Phil Schiller who got up on stage and said "can't innovate my a**" so it's obviously something that was approved of at the highest levels of leadership not just by one person. Seems to me people here give Apple's industrial design team way more power than they probably have in reality.
I did do my research. He's still an egotistical prick who brought fugly design choices that hurt my eyes.
Jonny Ive, love him or hate him, has been almost single-handedly responsible for Apple's iconic look since Steve Jobs came back to Apple in 1997. You just come off sounding like a hater.
At least certain aspects of iOS-6-era design that were haphazardly disregarded in iOS 7 resulting in a less usable UI are now finally returning (thank God). E.g. button shapes in more and more areas, larger text with increased weight for better readability, filled-in button shapes, thickened strokes, greater contrast, more intentional use of transparency and color, more usage of shapes/shaded background to group content etc. Personally, I wouldn't mind a certain amount of skeuomorphism returning as well... Nothing wrong with buttons looking like actual three-dimensional buttons and being able to grasp a UI at first sight due to instant recognition of the interactive elements.
You're right. There was a lot of praise for Cook firing Forstall. But there were a few of us (myself included) that actually LIKED the skeumorphic design... I still do.Agreed. How times have changed.
I'm actually surprised by the favorable comments here. I remember reading MR articles back in 2012, and in the forum there was near unanimous praise for Cook canning Forstall, and the subsequent death of skeuomorphic design.
Remember skeuomorphic?
Don't get me wrong, Forstall did a lot for Apple and was certainly pivotal to the success of OSX and iOS (he developed iOS), especially while under Steve Jobs. But his tenure at Apple was marked by lots of drama during the iPhone years of 2008 - 2012.
I'm curious as to what caused them to change their minds.
Anyone who seriously thinks he was let go because of the maps rollout....read Apple's press release again. It was all about collaboration. Clearly Forstall was creating a fiefdom inside Apple and wasn't playing well with others. Steve Jobs could maybe get away with being a jerk, Scott Forstall couldn't.
Based on reporting by Bloomberg and others it's clear Forstall didn't have a great working relationship with the rest of the executive team. Apparently Bob Mansfield wouldn't be in the same room with the guy unless Tim Cook was there. John Gruber has said even Phil Schiller didn't get along with him. Other reports suggested he was badmouthing other teams in emails to his teams. Maybe drama and internal conflict worked while Steve was running the show but with Steve no longer there it was an untenable situation going forward. Seems pretty clear that the current exec team gets along well. Just because Steve Jobs had a different management style doesn't mean his style was right. It's probably a style that wouldn't work with anyone but him at the top.
Funny how nostalgia alters our perception of history.
iPhone OS 2 was one of the buggiest software releases I've ever experienced from Apple. Almost as bad as OSX 10.0. I had numerous occasions where my iPhone bricked for no reason, while I was out and away from home unable to fix it. I remember updating an app, rearranging (because remember how awesome it was when apps automatically went to the end of your list after being updated?), and then poof crash in an endless loop effectively bricked. MULTIPLE times.
iOS and macOS today are so stable and polished than they've been in the past. Sorry, but nostalgia does not always translate to reality. While there might be little bugs, there are hardly ANY catastrophic bugs like I have experienced in the early days of OSX and iOS.
I'm surprised how many people still like the aesthetic of iOS 6...it looks very dated to me from today's lens.
I could go for a look that's more tactile than today's flat aesthetic (so incorporating some more texture in the design and creating a more friendly, humanist warmth), but I think the current look works fine as is and is still miles ahead of iOS 6. Maybe over time Forstall's work may have evolved more into a look I might have preferred over iOS now, but where he left off...it feels very much of its era and is best left there.
I could go for a look that's more tactile than today's flat aesthetic (so incorporating some more texture in the design and creating a more friendly, humanist warmth), but I think the current look works fine as is and is still miles ahead of iOS 6. Maybe over time Forstall's work may have evolved more into a look I might have preferred over iOS now, but where he left off...it feels very much of its era and is best left there.
The look is one thing. For me it is more about whether I can quickly understand a UI. The latest interfaces are often frustrating to use where you have to poke at everything to find out what it does or if indeed it does anything and the hierarchy of elements is often less than clear because there's no depth to the UI and elements aren't clearly separated from each other or grouped, and content is freely mixed together with and visually nearly inseparable from actionable elements. "
The skeuomorphism would have died in iOS no matter who was at the helm. Forstall had a larger concern with the underpinnings of the software than anything in the user interface. For its time, the real texture of iOS apps hearkened back to just about every other app metaphor for everyday items since the dawn of graphical computing.
Forstall was long rumored to be on the short list as a successor to Steve, and at least couple of people in the inner circle said Steve was actually grooming him. That would explain his forceful personality, as Steve knew what it takes to drive such a massive operation. Given his amazing perception he would also recognize that just as he wasn't ready to lead Apple when he was booted out in the 80s - something he publicly admitted - neither was Forstall ready. He had the raw talent but not the wisdom. Don't be surprised if it was in Forstall's best interest - and possible even planned by Jobs - to be given the boot. The guy needed whiskers. Life experience. Heartbreak. So feed his ego, let him self-destruct and get forced out. Lessons follow. Step 4 - profit, as the saying goes.
Its been my pet theory for quite some time now that he will do just that. Most people don't recall that Forstall is an excellent chess player, and that influences his thought patterns. He is setting up his pieces based on what's available to him. Don't be surprised if he comes back five or ten years from now, or maybe even next year. If he's making this public appearance and speaking directly about his work, supported indirectly by other people from the iOS team, it may mean he's getting himself back into consideration. There will still be a substantial number of people on staff in the MacOS shop that will back him, given his prior successful leadership there. Craig Federighi worked for him before, and would stay right where he's at. Fadell - his biggest detractor - is long out of the picture and largely discredited; he will never be back. Mansfield is far removed from Apple operations now, running a skunkworks project.
Cook is the real issue now. While a lot of number-watchers like him, and the SJW's think he's the greatest thing since kale chips, he's dependent on others for the company vision. Forstall is a self-contained unit, and he's still very much on top of everything electronic in our daily lives. I would like to see Cook return to his CFO duties, with Forstall - providing he has his act together - on top of everything else.
BTW: I'm hoping that in his time away from the company, he's learned to not say ridiculous things during product demos like "this is blow-away".
Lots of functionality right there!!I would like to know his opinion on this matter.
It doesn't matter who's CEO of Apple. People here will want someone else. Just look at the comments leading up to his firing. The complaints about iOS not innovativing fast enough, the use of skeumorphs and the need to replace Scott was deafening.
Absolutely agree. Try piece together a conclusive picture of why exactly "Apple is doomed" and you'll find lots of contradictory criticism.
For example: "Tim is milking the iPhone for all it's worth" vs "why are Apple putting so many resources into iPad, it's not selling very well!"
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I love this theory!
I do wonder who will take over as CEO when Tim Cook, Jeff Williams and Jony Ive have all retired.
Forstall was the fall guy for Timmy's complete incompetence. Cook rushed out a very alpha version of Maps that is still vastly inferior to Google Maps in every way and when called on it, issues a weak apology and expects everyone to hop-to and sign it. When Forstall rightly refused Timmy pouts and gives him the boot. Cook needs to go.