Envy? Or just Old Testament authoritarianism? Wake up. This is not about greed, and not about the little guy paying. These options were authorized by the board. This is about creative accounting and corporate shortcuts. The corporation transfers more value to the options grantee, at a lower cost to itself and less impact to the bottom line. As far as "falsifying board minutes", in the real world this is done all the time. Corporate bylaws generally require a special board meeting for a specific action. Directors often can't attend, so matters are discussed with all on the phone, agreed to, and minutes are created to make it appear that formalities are met. Formalities. It's a shortcut. It's wrong. But it's common. and generally no different than if all actually met as reflected in the minutes. If what was done was so, so terrible, Anderson wouldn't have been let off with a parking ticket.
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SEC To Re-Investigate Jobs?
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Envy? Or just Old Testament authoritarianism? Wake up. This is not about greed, and not about the little guy paying. These options were authorized by the board. This is about creative accounting and corporate shortcuts. The corporation transfers more value to the options grantee, at a lower cost to itself and less impact to the bottom line. As far as "falsifying board minutes", in the real world this is done all the time. Corporate bylaws generally require a special board meeting for a specific action. Directors often can't attend, so matters are discussed with all on the phone, agreed to, and minutes are created to make it appear that formalities are met. Formalities. It's a shortcut. It's wrong. But it's common. and generally no different than if all actually met as reflected in the minutes. If what was done was so, so terrible, Anderson wouldn't have been let off with a parking ticket.
Took the 5th?
I question the reliability of the claim that Anderson took the 5th. It seems unlikely that they would allow a settlement where he can remain a CFO and in corporate governance, force a repayment of backdating bonus, and a "small" fine if he refused to cooperate. Not to mention the SEC thanking Apple (which would in essence involve past execs) for fully cooperating.
But I'm not going to pay to read the article or research it further.
I question the reliability of the claim that Anderson took the 5th. It seems unlikely that they would allow a settlement where he can remain a CFO and in corporate governance, force a repayment of backdating bonus, and a "small" fine if he refused to cooperate. Not to mention the SEC thanking Apple (which would in essence involve past execs) for fully cooperating.
But I'm not going to pay to read the article or research it further.
Typical game play...
This is just so damn pathetic and obvious...
Now I am not saying Bill Gate$ isn't sitting in his comfy chair and giggling while holding that famous tape apple gave him when Micro$oft went and screwed Steve behind his back.
What I am saying is that ever since the internet went online to the general public and news of all kind went loose, I have followed all kinds of news about Apple.
Over the past few years, the media (because of the success of the iPod) have been looking, almost dying to get some story on this once little company. Since Steve isn't one who likes to let secrets out into the open, it has been a unique and excellent adventure for Apple fans and users since the return of Steve Jobs.
But there will always be people who will hate EVERYTHING about Apple and Steve Jobs. Call it envy or whatever you find appropriate to call it, but the truth of the matter is, that someone, or a group of people is out to get Steve Jobs or just harm Apple. This has been going on for years, with idiotic lawsuits. Lawsuits that make no sense and still, the more Apple became famous, the dumber and more harmful lawsuits followed.
I don't care if Steve personally did whatever PeeCee users hope he did. I don't think he did, but that's just me. Cause I like Steve. I have my reasons, based on personal experience. Furthermore, the man has given you all a wonderful set of products and has still many more to give us. A lot of people don't actually listen to those who really LOVE working for Apple or ask any of Steve's friends. The news always find those who hate him or hold some kind of a grudge...
Anything else would not sell the news, now would it...
I hate people who are so high and mighty, thinking they are so much better, when they have never done a damn thing to make life a little more easier for others. Yet they all like to point fingers. Shame on all of them.
Shame on those who are out to destroy a company that made an impression, that did something others didn't dare to do. A company that STILL is considered to be original compared to others out there.
If we loose Steve Jobs, we'll loose Apple and that will be the end of it.
And here is how it would work :
If Steve is taken out of Apple, Apple will struggle for a bit, but then ultimately another scandal or the likes will drag the company into a position where other companies will try to buy it. Apple will be forced to sell, and SONY or in this case Micro$oft will be the highest bidders. Bill will buy it in what will be the most ironic and revolting twist of Apple's history.
The reason why Bill will be the buyer is simple... By that time, Micro$oft will be in such a deplorable state that compared to the MacOS and Linux variant OS's, Window$ will look like something from the early 80ies compared to the more advanced OS's out there. They would dismantle Apple, steal whatever technology and implement it into their own. OR in this case more like the BORG from Star Trek, simply assimilate it.
This is just one possible path Apple's future may lead...
Do you really want to drag a company to its death, just cause you want to have a heated debate about something you really don't care about at the end of the day?
I know I don't...
This is just so damn pathetic and obvious...
Now I am not saying Bill Gate$ isn't sitting in his comfy chair and giggling while holding that famous tape apple gave him when Micro$oft went and screwed Steve behind his back.
What I am saying is that ever since the internet went online to the general public and news of all kind went loose, I have followed all kinds of news about Apple.
Over the past few years, the media (because of the success of the iPod) have been looking, almost dying to get some story on this once little company. Since Steve isn't one who likes to let secrets out into the open, it has been a unique and excellent adventure for Apple fans and users since the return of Steve Jobs.
But there will always be people who will hate EVERYTHING about Apple and Steve Jobs. Call it envy or whatever you find appropriate to call it, but the truth of the matter is, that someone, or a group of people is out to get Steve Jobs or just harm Apple. This has been going on for years, with idiotic lawsuits. Lawsuits that make no sense and still, the more Apple became famous, the dumber and more harmful lawsuits followed.
I don't care if Steve personally did whatever PeeCee users hope he did. I don't think he did, but that's just me. Cause I like Steve. I have my reasons, based on personal experience. Furthermore, the man has given you all a wonderful set of products and has still many more to give us. A lot of people don't actually listen to those who really LOVE working for Apple or ask any of Steve's friends. The news always find those who hate him or hold some kind of a grudge...
Anything else would not sell the news, now would it...
I hate people who are so high and mighty, thinking they are so much better, when they have never done a damn thing to make life a little more easier for others. Yet they all like to point fingers. Shame on all of them.
Shame on those who are out to destroy a company that made an impression, that did something others didn't dare to do. A company that STILL is considered to be original compared to others out there.
If we loose Steve Jobs, we'll loose Apple and that will be the end of it.
And here is how it would work :
If Steve is taken out of Apple, Apple will struggle for a bit, but then ultimately another scandal or the likes will drag the company into a position where other companies will try to buy it. Apple will be forced to sell, and SONY or in this case Micro$oft will be the highest bidders. Bill will buy it in what will be the most ironic and revolting twist of Apple's history.
The reason why Bill will be the buyer is simple... By that time, Micro$oft will be in such a deplorable state that compared to the MacOS and Linux variant OS's, Window$ will look like something from the early 80ies compared to the more advanced OS's out there. They would dismantle Apple, steal whatever technology and implement it into their own. OR in this case more like the BORG from Star Trek, simply assimilate it.
This is just one possible path Apple's future may lead...
Do you really want to drag a company to its death, just cause you want to have a heated debate about something you really don't care about at the end of the day?
I know I don't...
added link
Link(also referenced in post below): http://legalpad.blogs.fortune.com/2...-not-illegal-if-you-account-for-it-correctly/
Yes... CnnFN.com had a little story yesterday which basically explained that Options Backdating is effectively illegal because:
The ONLY reason to do options backdating is because you are trying to hide the accounting implications; that's why you can't find ANY companies that have done options backdating AND accounted for it correctly. If your plan is to account for it correctly, you just issue options at a given strike price, with no need for 'backdating.' And that has always been the law.
The SEC is not applying the law retroactively, because that is prohibited by the constitution.
Link(also referenced in post below): http://legalpad.blogs.fortune.com/2...-not-illegal-if-you-account-for-it-correctly/
Yes... CnnFN.com had a little story yesterday which basically explained that Options Backdating is effectively illegal because:
The ONLY reason to do options backdating is because you are trying to hide the accounting implications; that's why you can't find ANY companies that have done options backdating AND accounted for it correctly. If your plan is to account for it correctly, you just issue options at a given strike price, with no need for 'backdating.' And that has always been the law.
The SEC is not applying the law retroactively, because that is prohibited by the constitution.
It doesn't matter if it was authorized by the board; it was illegal. Both the falsification of the board meeting, and the backdating without proper accounting. The stockholders are the victims.
Yes, 'transfers value.' From whom? The stockholders, that's who. And if they then hide that in the accounting, it is illegal.
It makes sense if they also believed he was not the one primarily responsible. You will note they are pressing charges against the lawyer.
This is just so damn pathetic and obvious...
Now I am not saying Bill Gate$ isn't sitting in his comfy chair and giggling while holding that famous tape apple gave him when Micro$oft went and screwed Steve behind his back.
What I am saying is that ever since the internet went online to the general public and news of all kind went loose, I have followed all kinds of news about Apple.
Over the past few years, the media (because of the success of the iPod) have been looking, almost dying to get some story on this once little company. Since Steve isn't one who likes to let secrets out into the open, it has been a unique and excellent adventure for Apple fans and users since the return of Steve Jobs.
But there will always be people who will hate EVERYTHING about Apple and Steve Jobs. Call it envy or whatever you find appropriate to call it, but the truth of the matter is, that someone, or a group of people is out to get Steve Jobs or just harm Apple. This has been going on for years, with idiotic lawsuits. Lawsuits that make no sense and still, the more Apple became famous, the dumber and more harmful lawsuits followed.
I don't care if Steve personally did whatever PeeCee users hope he did. I don't think he did, but that's just me. Cause I like Steve. I have my reasons, based on personal experience. Furthermore, the man has given you all a wonderful set of products and has still many more to give us. A lot of people don't actually listen to those who really LOVE working for Apple or ask any of Steve's friends. The news always find those who hate him or hold some kind of a grudge...
Anything else would not sell the news, now would it...
I hate people who are so high and mighty, thinking they are so much better, when they have never done a damn thing to make life a little more easier for others. Yet they all like to point fingers. Shame on all of them.
Shame on those who are out to destroy a company that made an impression, that did something others didn't dare to do. A company that STILL is considered to be original compared to others out there.
If we loose Steve Jobs, we'll loose Apple and that will be the end of it.
And here is how it would work :
If Steve is taken out of Apple, Apple will struggle for a bit, but then ultimately another scandal or the likes will drag the company into a position where other companies will try to buy it. Apple will be forced to sell, and SONY or in this case Micro$oft will be the highest bidders. Bill will buy it in what will be the most ironic and revolting twist of Apple's history.
The reason why Bill will be the buyer is simple... By that time, Micro$oft will be in such a deplorable state that compared to the MacOS and Linux variant OS's, Window$ will look like something from the early 80ies compared to the more advanced OS's out there. They would dismantle Apple, steal whatever technology and implement it into their own. OR in this case more like the BORG from Star Trek, simply assimilate it.
This is just one possible path Apple's future may lead...
Do you really want to drag a company to its death, just cause you want to have a heated debate about something you really don't care about at the end of the day?
I know I don't...
While I too would not want to see Apple be negatively affected by the loss of Jobs, if he is guilty we're just going to have to suck it up and deal with it, just as he would have to.
I read that Jobs actually dismissed these stocks and instead got restricted shares, therefore missing the 3+million payoff that Anderson himself got. Is this true? Would this have any effect on anything?
Amdahl everyone of your posts is nearly 100% WRONG!
Jobs want not the primary beneficiary. In fact, everything that Anderson relates is solely in relation to HIS OWN benefits, not Jobs.
Backdating occurs frequently. It is not solely to hide accounting. It is a very rational tool. If the backdate corresponds to a company event and shows the exec was responsible for growth relating to that event to the future, it makes sense as a compensation reward. It is not illegal.
Your response to my post makes no sense. The SEC doesn't make favorable settlements with people who refuse to cooperate. I know for a fact that Heinen has been deposed multiple times, and she has to face charges. To suggest that Fred didn't talk to the SEC seems rather implausible.
There are several other errors not worth mentioning.
Jobs want not the primary beneficiary. In fact, everything that Anderson relates is solely in relation to HIS OWN benefits, not Jobs.
Backdating occurs frequently. It is not solely to hide accounting. It is a very rational tool. If the backdate corresponds to a company event and shows the exec was responsible for growth relating to that event to the future, it makes sense as a compensation reward. It is not illegal.
Your response to my post makes no sense. The SEC doesn't make favorable settlements with people who refuse to cooperate. I know for a fact that Heinen has been deposed multiple times, and she has to face charges. To suggest that Fred didn't talk to the SEC seems rather implausible.
There are several other errors not worth mentioning.
Yes, that's a bit like saying "Yes, I robbed the bank, but I put the money back before anyone noticed it was missing."
Love the Matrix quote! The problem is that if the SEC pursues action against Steve Jobs it will hurt investors because Apple's share will plummet. The SEC is supposed to protect investors. This situation is unique to Apple because of Jobs' indispensible nature. Also, as Anderson himself seems to suggest, his conversations with Jobs were verbal, which means a he said/he said scenario. Without further corroborating evidence, the SEC won't bother.
The quantity of options received by Jobs' was much larger than any of those received by the others.
Gee, that sounds like you're trying to justify insider trading. Which is also illegal.
The 5th Amendment is a constitutional right; exercising it may appear suspicious, but it doesn't mean that the person using it is the most guilty party. Anderson, if he invoked it, was simply refusing to talk to the SEC until he knew what they were looking to do to him. When they offered their settlement, he took it and at that point would feel free to speak without fear of being prosecuted for what he said.
Oh, well, I'll just admit I was wrong on the points you didn't raise.
The Fortune Legal Pad entry on backdating
http://legalpad.blogs.fortune.com/2...-not-illegal-if-you-account-for-it-correctly/
Explains that you don't backdate unless you're trying to improperly account.
Other entries have said that Jobs received 7,500,000 options in the grant that is under investigation. Here's a nice quote of the investigation into Steve Jobs at Pixar:
http://legalpad.blogs.fortune.com/2...-not-illegal-if-you-account-for-it-correctly/
Explains that you don't backdate unless you're trying to improperly account.
Other entries have said that Jobs received 7,500,000 options in the grant that is under investigation. Here's a nice quote of the investigation into Steve Jobs at Pixar:
That's a little overheated, don't you think? Nobody stole anything.
Like any public company, Apple is responsible for adhering to certain methods of accounting, which they didn't in this case. The net result was they over-reported profits. It's not good, but theft it was not, and it should not be equated with theft unless you're gunning for the hyperbole prize or something.
Then why is it illegal? That question is not for my amusement; it is for yours. If you can explain why this shouldn't be illegal, and that over-reporting profits isn't theft from the shareholders (a la Enron, Worldcom, or Tyco), then let's hear it. The ex-CEOs of Worldcom & Tyco are in jail.
The ex-CEO of Fannie Mae was being investigated for UNDER-reporting profits, because it hid the underlying risk of the business from shareholders. Since he is well connected, it isn't likely he is going to jail. But he was forced to resign.
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you. Enron, Tyco, Fannie Mae.....gimmee a break.
Steve-centric Apple...
This seeming "all-eggs-in-one-basket" dependence on Steve Jobs unnerves me more and more as time goes by. Am I the only one here who feels that way?
This seeming "all-eggs-in-one-basket" dependence on Steve Jobs unnerves me more and more as time goes by. Am I the only one here who feels that way?
huh? cooperation is not by choice. and cooperation after a guilty act doesn't mean free ride.
You must not be an AAPL shareholder.
I am - and I'll tell you, if the last 10 years of Steve Jobs has been abusing me as a shareholder, all I can say is - hurt me bad, Steve! Hurt me worse!
What Steve Jobs did with AAPL bought me a nice house free and clear, just for showing a little faith in Apple by investing when AAPL was $14/share 5-6 years ago, where it is now $200+/share (correcting for the 2-for-1 split 2 years ago).
There are no "little guys" who were hurt here, drop the pathetic little whiny success envy. Almost alone among super-compensated CEOs, he deserves rich compensation.
Which makes this case a bit different from Enron, where for example employees of some companies bought by Enron had their whole retirement funds turned into Enron shares, which turned into worthless mush shortly afterwards, and all that at a time when the execs in the company already _knew_ that it was worthless.
Correct. I don't see how Anderson's press release implicates Jobs. He warned Jobs that the dating of the options grants would involve "accounting issues and potential consequences." OK, so what? Isn't it Anderson's responsibility, as CFO, to handle the accounting issues? Isn't that the CFO's department? Anderson did not say that Jobs knew of falsified documents; he claimed only that Jobs told him the Board was "on board" with the dates. This was after months of testy negotiations. Which brings us to Heinen -- who the SEC is going after. Jobs did not appear to conceal anything about this greedy, stupid episode. He ought to be embarrassed by it, but Jobs is not the type to feel embarrassment for more than a nanosecond.
I have no doubt that Jobs' infamous "reality distortion field" and abrasive, abusive, egotistical personality contributed to this managerial failure, but I don't see how Anderson can get Jobs in trouble unless he testifies that he cooked the books on Jobs' orders and that Heinen likewise fabricated the Board of Directors' minutes on direct orders from Jobs, with Jobs understanding the implications. Since the SEC already let Jobs off scott free, that likelihood is infinitesimal. Anderson and Heinen screwed up; Jobs screwed up as a manager, but without criminal intent.
