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Second Annual Winter PowerPC Challenge! January 1-8, 2018
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Hmm... I never really thought of that. Its the same OS, so you'd have the same restrictions in terms of modern capabilities. However, the overall experience will likely be improved due to having an Intel CPU. I'd be willing to open this up to a discussion, but I am personally leaning towards no since this is a PowerPC Challenge.
An early Intel Challenge may be equally as fun...
I would go with you on this one. And I can site a specific app instance in which this would show the difference.
Quark Inc, when they released QuarkXPress 8 did it as a universal build. It runs on PowerPC Macs, but even on a G5 if you get lots of text at small point sizes over multiple columns it will bring the Mac to it's knees.
There's no issue on an Intel Mac of that time period running that OS. This is because Quark optimized the Intel build and left the PowerPC build in the cold. I could go more into the why of that, but I will hold off for now.
My point is that Intel Macs of that time period with that OS will be far more optimized to handle apps of that time period then any PowerPC Mac.
This, in my opinion, negates the challenge.
Perhaps a more hardware liberal, but software limiting space for the future might be a “Tiger Challenge.”
Include Hackintosh and early Intel systems, but with the real challenge being to find a way to get by in Tiger land with no falling back in Leopard niceties/conveniences.
Include Hackintosh and early Intel systems, but with the real challenge being to find a way to get by in Tiger land with no falling back in Leopard niceties/conveniences.
if we are playing Tiger or Leopard on intel Macs/hacks....
then it does not become much of a challenge as Leopard and Tiger are native to some still rather high end Mac Pros, (and Xserves for that matter)
Tiger shipped with the 3Ghz 8 Core Mac Pro 2,1, and theoreticly should run on a Mac Pro 3,1
and Leopard shipped with the Mac Pro 4,1, and runs on Nehalem Mac Pro 5,1s
and then I can just run a bunch of Windows VMs and Just loop hole out of everything LOL
I have a screen shot of Leopard natively booting on my Mac Pro 4,1 before I upgraded to Westmere CPUs here https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...h-sierra-for-cmp.2060505/page-5#post-24883525 (to do this now on my machine I would need a patched kernel as Leopard does not AFAIK support westmere, which is what the Dual X5677s I have fitted are, I might give it a go at some point, I did get leopard to boot on my 2012 cMBP LOL)
fun tidbit related to this, in that the Quad Core single socket Mac Pro 5,1 used Nehalem CPUs right until the very end in Late 2013 and as a result of that, apple was still selling a Mac in 2013 that could natively boot Leopard with no hacks or such
(granted the 5770 has no drivers in Leopard)
in the end what im saying is we really should just stick to PowerPC macs for this challenge
it is hard to believe tho That the first Mac Pro 4,1s are eight and a half years old! like damn they are to this day even in the PC world ignoring the fact they are macs, they are still considered quite high end systems, go back to when say a G5 was 8.5 years old and it was viewed as an obsolete slow machine even then, its quite crazy how lazy intel has gotten in this regard to top end end performance, im glad AMD is finally back in the game to give intel some competition/motivation to make better CPUs again (GPUs are another matter entirely tho they keep getting crazy fast with every new generation from Nvidia/AMD)
then it does not become much of a challenge as Leopard and Tiger are native to some still rather high end Mac Pros, (and Xserves for that matter)
Tiger shipped with the 3Ghz 8 Core Mac Pro 2,1, and theoreticly should run on a Mac Pro 3,1
and Leopard shipped with the Mac Pro 4,1, and runs on Nehalem Mac Pro 5,1s
and then I can just run a bunch of Windows VMs and Just loop hole out of everything LOL
I have a screen shot of Leopard natively booting on my Mac Pro 4,1 before I upgraded to Westmere CPUs here https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...h-sierra-for-cmp.2060505/page-5#post-24883525 (to do this now on my machine I would need a patched kernel as Leopard does not AFAIK support westmere, which is what the Dual X5677s I have fitted are, I might give it a go at some point, I did get leopard to boot on my 2012 cMBP LOL)
fun tidbit related to this, in that the Quad Core single socket Mac Pro 5,1 used Nehalem CPUs right until the very end in Late 2013 and as a result of that, apple was still selling a Mac in 2013 that could natively boot Leopard with no hacks or such
(granted the 5770 has no drivers in Leopard)in the end what im saying is we really should just stick to PowerPC macs for this challenge
it is hard to believe tho That the first Mac Pro 4,1s are eight and a half years old! like damn they are to this day even in the PC world ignoring the fact they are macs, they are still considered quite high end systems, go back to when say a G5 was 8.5 years old and it was viewed as an obsolete slow machine even then, its quite crazy how lazy intel has gotten in this regard to top end end performance, im glad AMD is finally back in the game to give intel some competition/motivation to make better CPUs again (GPUs are another matter entirely tho
they keep getting crazy fast with every new generation from Nvidia/AMD)
@LightBulbFun always finding the loopholes. Even in an honest, trust based challenge like this
Next you’ll find a way to switch the G4 Processor to run fixed in little endian mode, translate processor instructions at the L2 cache level, and boot High Sierra on your Pismo G4
Next you’ll find a way to switch the G4 Processor to run fixed in little endian mode, translate processor instructions at the L2 cache level, and boot High Sierra on your Pismo G4
I think 'devices' would imply peripherals, such as cameras, iPods, and older iPhones.
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I think you should solely use that Pismo for the challenge - leaning on the Quad is easy street...
what next your going to tell me to use the 4400 as my main desktop
ill stick with the Quad thanks I have actually been a little disappointed with web browsing on the Quad, pretty much all the web browsers I have tried, just Thrash 1 CPU while the other 3 sit around twiddling their thumbs...
what next your going to tell me to use the 4400 as my main desktop
Odd. My test last year on Webkit was using all four:
I knew you’d get the simulator going on the Pismo. Fantastic accomplishment again sir.
In windows it's possible to assign cores to apps manually. Haven't found something alike in OS X yetwhat next your going to tell me to use the 4400 as my main desktop
Ah, well that might prevent me from participating in this challenge. The only iPhone I have older than a 5s is a 2G from 2007, and aside from the iOS 3 software/256 MB RAM being almost unusable today, 2G isn't even supported anymore on most modern networks.
On the iPad side I do have an iOS 5 iPad 1 that would work, but it's not a cellular model.
I could just as easily remote into my Mac Pro 5,1 and use it through the G5, couldn't I? And before you say no, remember that even browsing the web means remotely using non-PowerPC machines - so where exactly is the line drawn?
the iPhone 2G iPhone1,1 has 128MB of RAM not 256MB, it was with the 3GS that the iPhone finally got 256MB of RAM the main thing with the iPhone stuff is, so people cant go "oh yeah im using PPC!" while they do 99% of their stuff on a modern iPhone 8+, but if your just using the 5S to for small things like staying in contact with people who use iMessage exclusively then im sure thats fine
in regards to screen sharing, then you are basically using your G5 as a glorified keyboard mouse and monitor and since your not actually using the G5 to "Compute" as such, yes that would be in violation of the rules, browsing the web does connect you to non PPC machines yes, but the bulk of the computing on the user end is being done by the PowerPC machine in question (ie rendering the web page at hand)
why does it have to get to this point? its just meant to be a bit of fun for a week Jeez
There are services available for compute tasks to be done outside your PowerPC Mac, are you saying those shouldn't be used either? The line gets fuzzy here, as I never mentioned Screen Sharing by name and that wasn't the only method I was referring to.
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You're the one who mentioned loopholes in response to my question, I'm just continuing the conversation.
Love it!
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"Modern computers can be used if absolutely necessary - documenting your use case can make for an interesting discussion!"
Although, with that said, no-one said it was going to be easy!
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The challenge is to use PowerPC personal computers. As implied, not all electronic equipment you utilise in the process (e.g. web servers, cameras, iPods) has to be PPC, it just has to be compatible with PPC. Therefore, PPC-compatible non-PPC servers, used solely for server purposes, would be allowed.
Since a Mac Pro is a non-PPC personal computer, utilising it in any way would go against the rules and spirit of the challenge.
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I think a definition of server purposes is needed here. Considering the Mac Pro would only provide services that can be used by (and are therefore compatible with) the Power Mac G5, it too would be a server in this context.
Count me in. I've added myself at No. 12.
I imagine the challenge should be to simply use a PowerPC as a daily driver, including email, web browsing, productivity, design, photography, music, work (whatever is possible) and if you have it, match with peripherals of the time like an iPod classic / shuffle / mini instead of relying on your iPhone with Apple Music or something. It could even be a chance to pull out some CDs and DVDs and play them straight off the disc (or is that thinking too far back?)
I wouldn't expect anyone would stop using their modern smart phone or existing file/media/print/web servers. But for the challenge, consider what your PowerPC could accomplish in place of newer technology and attempt to do it this way first. It could be a good chance to explore older versions of software and other alternative solutions.
I think I'll just disconnect the displays from my Mac Pro and plug them into my DC G5, that way I can continue in the same workspace / setup. I will however continue to keep the Mac Pro running as a file server, synergy server, internet gateway (sharing WiFi->GigE) and a host for my Bluetooth devices, including the keyboard and mouse. My DC doesn't have AP or BT.
I will attempt to use the PowerPCs for all of my work, instead of the Intel Macs. But I won't be overhauling my office or buying other devices/adapters to make things speak.
I imagine the challenge should be to simply use a PowerPC as a daily driver, including email, web browsing, productivity, design, photography, music, work (whatever is possible) and if you have it, match with peripherals of the time like an iPod classic / shuffle / mini instead of relying on your iPhone with Apple Music or something. It could even be a chance to pull out some CDs and DVDs and play them straight off the disc (or is that thinking too far back?)
I wouldn't expect anyone would stop using their modern smart phone or existing file/media/print/web servers. But for the challenge, consider what your PowerPC could accomplish in place of newer technology and attempt to do it this way first. It could be a good chance to explore older versions of software and other alternative solutions.
I think I'll just disconnect the displays from my Mac Pro and plug them into my DC G5, that way I can continue in the same workspace / setup. I will however continue to keep the Mac Pro running as a file server, synergy server, internet gateway (sharing WiFi->GigE) and a host for my Bluetooth devices, including the keyboard and mouse. My DC doesn't have AP or BT.
I will attempt to use the PowerPCs for all of my work, instead of the Intel Macs. But I won't be overhauling my office or buying other devices/adapters to make things speak.
Geez, people are making a fun challenge really complicated. If for example in 2003, you connected to a website, how would you know what architecture the server serving the site to you runs on? Big chances it would be a x86 based system, but it could have been a POWER server too, or heck, an Itanium server. I think it's fairly obvious it's meant to be a challenge where you use PowerPC Macs as your main desktop and/or laptop, with the appropriate Mac OS X operating systems. No remote desktop into an Intel system from the PPC Mac or that doohicky. A file server in 2003 could have been an x86 as well, so I doubt you all need to focus so hard on that.
I thought the goal in this competition was clearly put. Use PPC devices as long as possible. If you can't help yourself but use an Intel then do it. It's a competition not to win a price but to analyze how far you can go and how long you can stay within the world of <2006 computers. Quite easy to understand, isn't it?There are services available for compute tasks to be done outside your PowerPC Mac, are you saying those shouldn't be used either? The line gets fuzzy here, as I never mentioned Screen Sharing by name and that wasn't the only method I was referring to.
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You're the one who mentioned loopholes in response to my question, I'm just continuing the conversation.
For finding loopholes there should maybe be its own competition
lightbulbfun would win this hands down
[doublepost=1509366122][/doublepost]At work the main windows programs i use are microsoft access database and Slack (alternative to Skype) If i can find a decent PPC database for 10.3 that will allow me to import my works access database then i am 50% there to trying out the challenge.
The difficult part is Slack, unfortunately i have to login to it everyday so to be able to communicate with the rest of the work force and the only mac version they do is 10.8 and above. The only option i see is a windows VM but would my G3 lombard be powerful enough to run a VM of windows just so i can use Slack?.