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secret fears of women
- Thread starter Salasm
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I thought he meant crotchless, PVC, studded panties. But yeah you're probably right, anybody wearing the ones I'm thinking of probably likes getting caught.
While I agree in many cases, I don't think you can say that as a blanket statement. For example - a date rape where they couple is making out, but the girl wants to stop and the guy keeps going to the point where it becomes rape (a pretty common college-rape scenario). I would not characterize that as an act born of dominance and anger, but rather as a sexual urge that became violent and unhealthy when it was not controlled.
As pointed out in this thread, men certainly have no problem being violent towards each other. So if rape is wholly an act of dominance and anger, with no sexual motivation, then don't we see a lot more male-on-male sexual violence?
You do, just look at the figures for rapes in prisons. In life outside men may find it hard to admit they have been raped and keep it to themselves.
Rape in prison, that's your great defense? Kind of a different thing, wouldn't you say?
I like how this started, secret fears of women according (mostly) to men presuming to know a thing about it. It would be funny if it weren't turning into such a goddamned rude thread.
well what about the church scandals, boy scouts and other organizations. or what about teachers raping students. i mean stuff like in the movie deliverance is probably not that uncommon.
i dont think you will ever get a guy to admit he was raped as it hurts his ego i would assume alot moreso than a girl's. hence why its probably not reported as much.
think about this, if a guy was to get raped by a woman, he probably wont report it and most people would think he was "lucky" to get "some" and people wouldnt give it much thought or take it as seriously. imagine the reaction guy friends would give another guy if he got "raped". i bet alot of humor and laughter would follow. contrast this to a girl getting raped and her girlfriends' reactions.
a lady on the other hand is alot more easy to portray as a victim of sexual violence than a guy.
Lecter: He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer now.
Clarice: No, we just...
Lecter: No. We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice?
Well first, I never said rape wasn't about violence and domination - it very often is. Second, prison is totally different as there aren't any female victims to choose from. And third, you can't seriously be suggesting that, even taking prisons in to account, men are as likely to rape men as they are to rape women, are you?
I don't understand why some people are so resistant to admitting that rape can be a crime of both sex and violence. That doesn't diminish the significance of it - if anything, it makes rape more awful because saying it's just about violence puts it on even par with assault and battery.
I'm not sure what you mean by rude, but I certainly hope I'm not contributing to that, as being rude or offensive was the last thing I wanted to do. In any case, I think I'll extricate myself from this discussion now, just to be on the safe side.
Excuse me. . but do you mind if I rub up against you?
thats called frotteurism when done with strangers, and is considered a sexual disorder.
I think your post is very telling and sort of helps to reinforce my point. You, as a man, declared qualifiers for when you're more aware for your own safety. "At night." I think it's safe to assume women would feel just as vulnerable then, and even during broad daylight.
Without having fancy statistics to wave around, I'm willing to bet more women are assualted or harrassed than men, especially during the day. We have to just be more aware of our surroundings, 24/7, than the average man. I'm not saying we need to be fearful, I'm saying we have to be more aware-- something that I honestly don't think men need to do or be as much as women.
I'm honestly having a hard time seeing the relevance. Wait, is it that you were at a place where it is expected that both men and women are likely to be more rambunctious, no? A club? And you, a man were harrassed, right? Could you, therefore, imagine the further harrassment women might endure waiting in that very same line? Now here's where I see further disconnect between your example and what I'm thinking of-- the victims I'm thinking of, they were assaulted in places that should have been safe. Their homes. The homes of people they wrongly trusted (in incidences of acquaintance rape). On a public street. In a field, while hiking. And often times, during what most people would call, "day" and not the oh-so-popular "scary night."
Pray tell, what sorts of reactions do you honestly think a woman's friends would have? Ha. I feel like this thread shows little to no real-world exposure to violence against women. Lemme further explain below...
She is also very likely to be dismissed. How many times (in fact, I'm sure I could find posts on MR that even show this) will a woman work up the courage to report violence against her, only to have the world scoff and say that it couldn't possibly have happened like that. That she's just trying to "abuse" the system, garner attention or sympathy. Whatever. That's just one form of reaction to a woman who admits to having been victimized.
To further clarify what I wrote a little bit above, in response to victims of sexual violence, there is this incredible phenomenon, and in fact, it happens so often, it even has a very real name-- victim blame. As the term would suggest, it is unfortunate but true, that many victims find they are blamed for what happened to them-- in either direct or indirect ways.
If you are very honest with yourself, if you can be the tiniest bit grounded in reality and not in the way things should or could be, then you can surely "imagine" this... Imagine a woman who calls to light the fact that she has indeed been a victim of rape. Assault. Violence. What are some of the first questions that come to mind? "Where was she?" "When (as in what time of day/ night) was she there?" "What was she wearing?" "Who was she with?"
Why isn't the first question, "Why did the assailant do that?" or "What was the assailant thinking?" or better yet, "What can we do to help support the victim?"
And truly, look at the questions I listed for a female victim-- are any of them really of relevance? Why should a woman be made to feel less safe than a man walking to her car no matter what time of day or night? Why should a woman have to reconsider what she wears? Why can a man be alone, but a woman who is, seen as foolish for doing so? Why should the brunt of safety be placed upon women?*
First of all, I don't think your posts were rude, I'm guessing she might have been referring to others. I think you bring up some interesting points.
And yes. Rape isn't just "often" about violence and domination. It is. Period. It (the act, not necessarily the assailant) says to the victim, "You, you have been made so small, so insignificant, as to have no control over your own body. You cannot even keep safe within yourself. I have complete control over you. Every time you cross a street, every time you go home, every time you go to visit a friend's home, you'll think twice about what might happen to you. You have no control." That is incredibly powerful. And utterly devastating.
Add to that, as you said, the element of sex-- and trust me, while neither assailant nor victim likely considers the act to be all that sexual (take a few psych courses, or women's/ gender/ feminist studies courses and you'll cover this without a doubt), it does impact both people's view on sexual issues. That much is inevitable, for sure.
And please, I've made a lot of my opinions be known, but I don't dare call myself all that knowledgable about this. I know this much from my own life experiences. I know this much from the experiences of women I know. I know this much from the three women's/ gender/ feminist studies and two psych classes I've taken. And I guess what I'm really just trying to get across? Is that men and women are not equal, nor are we seen or treated equally, and that as such, you can't just say, "So what? Men get assualted, therefore women are irrational to 'fear' or need to be more aware of men because of the potential to be assaulted."
We haven't the luxury of such a choice.
*I am in no way saying that women shouldn't bear some responsibilty, nor am I saying that no men take an active approach to fostering a safer community, because some really do.
Well, the place where I got punched in the head, was in the line to the club, not inside where people are already drinking. So no, I wouldn't expect people to be rambunctious in line.
If you fail to see the relevance, I'll remind you. Some woman said that women have to worry when they go somewhere at night, but guys don't have to. Then some guy said that no, us guys do also have to worry at night. And I agreed, citing two incidents of male on male violence at night.
So, talking about at home or during the day, is not what I'm talking about. And I'm not talking about how much women are raped or whatever. I'm just saying that this isn't only an issue for women.
If your point is that violence can happen to anyone, I agree.
If your point is that men need to fear violence as much as women, I couldn't agree less.
You were in line for a club. Where young people, either about to drink or who have been drinking. Clearly, not only an avoidable place but one where you should have the increased expectation of violence.
So, yeah, at night? In dangerous or risky places? Of course men have similar risks.
Anywhere else? No. Not at all.
Men tend not to be raped in their homes. Are they? Yes. Is the incidence anywhere near that of women? Of course not.
Men tend to be mugged less often. Why? They're bigger than women, and criminals will pick the easier target.
So I'm not sure what your point is, unless it's that everyone can be attacked, which I'd agree with.
Are you actually arguing that the risks for men are even close to those for women?
If that is his point, then he is being foolish, but I don't think that is it.
I think he was saying that, since men and woman both can get attacked, both think about it often(I'd bet women more then men) but if someone attack you, it doesn't matter if people are a tons of numbers saying your safe, the only thing that would matter is your being attacked.
i was just responding to the notion that someone assumed that avg men have nothing to worry about which is false. plain and simple.
not saying women are not at more of a risk but its not like guys just for being guys are safe from sexual assault.
i hope you can see my point
not saying women are not at more of a risk but its not like guys just for being guys are safe from sexual assault.
i hope you can see my point
Not sure why people are trying to read more into this than the simple words right here.
i must say as a guy, im never worried about a sexual assault. i never think that big man in the dark alley is going to rape me, however, i am worried about my safety.
I'm going to make one last attempt to get back to the original subject.
I've known at least three women that were scared to death of getting breast cancer, but were oblivious to the fact that, as smokers, they were far more likely to die of other kinds of cancer instead.
Also, one thing I've heard a few women mention: the fear that a significant other will die much earlier than they do, and leave them old and lonely.
I've known at least three women that were scared to death of getting breast cancer, but were oblivious to the fact that, as smokers, they were far more likely to die of other kinds of cancer instead.
Also, one thing I've heard a few women mention: the fear that a significant other will die much earlier than they do, and leave them old and lonely.
I really do not mean to trivialise what you have said at all. But look at it from a male perspective. What are you supposed to do? Ask "Excuse me, do you mind if I touch you?" Does not work
I'm not saying it is right by any means just that often it is not meant in the way that many women imagine.
No means No.
Some guys just try it on unless you have to fight your way out of their arms and run away. When there's no immediate group social disaproval for what they're doing in certain situations they'll just loose control.
The worst position I've ever been in was when a guy was clasped around me in a darkened nightclub, the music was too loud for anyone to hear me bar him. I was telling him to stop again and again and again and he'd just reply "what's the matter" and continued, I had a long bag down my front which I held firmly in place, I as just stiff as a board as he was all over me and luckily the guy I had gone to the club with saw what was happening and pulled him off me.
"no" "I'm with someone" "I can't do this" "get off me" "stop" "**** off you creep"
All those and variations of that mean just that, on many guys this doesn't seem to get through. Unless we're doing something where there's a pre arranged safe word all those things mean stop what you're doing and back th ehell off.