Serious Iphone Competition on the Way?

[Anuba]

Did I say that it doesn't add anything? Find me the spot instead of continueing with your ridiculous strawman argumentation.

Sigh. You complained about the fact that there was no disk mode. I then said that you can easily acquire disk mode functionality (and much else) by using 3rd party apps. Rather than acknowledge that this solves the disk mode issue, you switched subjects and went into some tirade about the "closedness" of the App store. I stuck to the original question rather than walk into your subject switcheroo trap, and now you're accusing ME of not using "real arguments".

Will you please give the strawmen a rest.

Whats up with this obsession with strawmen, did you just learn a new word today and now you have to stick it in every other sentence? My question "Do you rate a computer based on its preinstalled software?" is not a strawman argument: Your basic gripe with the iPhone is that it doesn't come with certain features and functionality out of the box. I find this a ridiculous notion since a smartphone is essentially a computer, albeit a miniscule one, which -- in this case anyway -- lets you install third party software which adds the lacking functionality. And since you're apparently not sold on this argument, I had to ask -- do you rate a computer based on its preinstalled software? Is the computer "crippled" because it lacks certain software-based functionality out of the box? If not, why is the iPhone any different?

The App you mention DOES NOT make the iPhone into a UMS capable device. The FIRMWARE of the iPhone is crippled, and the app is a so-so WORKAROUND. Sheesh!

Look, you complained about not being able to dump files onto the iPhone and the fact that you have to mail them to yourself. After I suggested an app that lets you dump files onto the iPhone, you've apparently upgraded the requirement to true UMS. Fine, it's not, so use DataCase instead, it lets you dump Office documents, PDFs, text, images, HTML, audio and video and view these files on the iPhone.

You just won't stop throwing that strawman against me, will you?

You just won't stop using your new favorite word, will you? Newsflash: It was you who put forth that the lack of disk mode, i.e. SOFTWARE based functionality, was an example of the iPhone being "crippled". Live with it. Next time you can't resist the urge to play the strawman card, make sure it's a context where I'm misrepresenting your position. If you want to retract your position then feel free to sneak back and edit your posts, so that it will look like I fabricated your position out of the blue.

Wait. You're a "professional audio engineer", yet you sit in a room full of programmers?

Yes, it's what happens when you work at the content department of a music software company. And I never said I was an "engineer", the title is sound designer.

Are you trying to sow the seeds of yet another strawman here? I never talked about any "iPod Killer", nor was I saying that there ever would be any.

The title of the f***ing thread is "Serious iPhone competition on the way?". It's a thread about a supposed iPhone killer from HTC. If you contribute to such a thread with complaints about the iPhone's lack of certain functionality, one would assume that you are -- given the topic at hand -- doing so because you feel that any phone offering this functionality on top of whatever the iPhone offers, is an iPhone killer as far as you're concerned. My counterargument was, to make a long story short, that the bulk of the iPhone user base most likely don't give a sh*t about the shortcomings you listed, and ergo, the device in question is no iPhone killer. How you make that into a logical fallacy is something you should take up with your therapist, although I reckon he or she will promptly be hit over the head with your beloved strawman card.

Ah, yes, if you're anything to go by, I guess that americans decides to call people names the moment their logical fallacies and strawmen aren't enough. What's your next trick? Emphasising one of my many misspellings?

Who said I'm American? I'm a fellow Scandinavian, otherwise I probably wouldn't have enough experience with Danes to have an opinion.

 

[marksman]

I just traded my iPhone in for one of these and a handful of magical beans.

 

[samiwas]

Whats up with this obsession with strawmen

You know, Anuba, I was wondering the same thing about the sheer number of times "straw man" was used. Someone needs a thesaurus.

Both of you have valid arguments, but will never agree. Phones are different things to different people, and some people just cannot understand that others just DO NOT CARE about all this extended functionality. I agree that the idea of editing audio on a phone just has zero appeal to me, and I like to do a fair bit myself. However, someone else (ie Tosser...interesting name) may see the lack of such a thing as a major shortcoming. He is perfectly allowed to have that view.

And if he believes the iPhone is crippled, then that's up to him as well. The two sides will never agree. The problem is that those who want and feel that they need every function under the sun do not realize that they are more than likely the minority, and don't always fall into the target demographic of a certain device. Most HTC, Samsung, etc phones are designed to appeal to anyone and everyone, whether they are overbloated with features many will never use or not...they sell based on features. And a lot of people want that, whether based on braggability or because they actually use all of them. Sometimes having every feature is not what a company is going for. People use the argument "let the user decide"...you CAN decide, to buy another device.

Then there is the side who just wants the experience and features that the iPhone brings. Certainly, I look forward to more features, but I'm not out there crying and posting ad nauseam about them because I'm fine with the features as they are. I don't feel Apple shortchanged me or has made my device useless. It does almost everything I want it to do, because I bought it based on what it claimed it was. I don't care about A2DP, Air sharing works well enough for transferring files (usb will be a nice addition), the occasional video recording might be fun, but I'm not missing it (I never had it on any other phone).

The majority of phone users out there (at least in the US...I don't have any expertise in the Euro market) are not phone-feature-obsessed. And the phone was originally developed for the US market by a US-based company, so obviously their target of features would more than likely be based on that market.

Hopefully, I don't have any strawmen in this. I'm not comparing devices, because I don't care about them. Just trying to diffuse an argument that has no answer.

 

[Tosser]

Sigh. You complained about the fact that there was no disk mode.

No, I used the lack of disk mode as an EXAMPLE of one of the many things missing on the iPhone.

I then said that you can easily acquire disk mode functionality (and much else) by using 3rd party apps.

You then went on about a lot of things. That 3rd party app you mentioned didn't make the iPhone do Disk Mode, but was a workaround around Apple's many ways of crippling the iPhone.

Rather than acknowledge that this solves the disk mode issue, you switched subjects and went into some tirade about the "closedness" of the App store.

You know, I have to counter all - or at least most - of your unfounded claims. Secondly, there's nothing to acknowledge, the app doesn't make the iPhone capable of disk mode.

I stuck to the original question rather than walk into your subject switcheroo trap, and now you're accusing ME of not using "real arguments".

Is it possible you could distance yourself even further from the truth?

Whats up with this obsession with strawmen, did you just learn a new word today and now you have to stick it in every other sentence?

No I didn't. The reason it pops of so often is that it is an accurate description of what you do.

My question "Do you rate a computer based on its preinstalled software?" is not a strawman argument: Your basic gripe with the iPhone is that it doesn't come with certain features and functionality out of the box.

Don't be ridiculous, you were claiming I was comparing it to full-fledged workstation.

I find this a ridiculous notion since a smartphone is essentially a computer, albeit a miniscule one, which -- in this case anyway -- lets you install third party software which adds the lacking functionality.

And you still think you're a) not making strawmen, b) stay with what you began with, and c) aren't using pseudo argumentation?

And since you're apparently not sold on this argument, I had to ask -- do you rate a computer based on its preinstalled software?

Yes, and that was were your strawman argument was concluded. If you remember your orginal statement, your were claiming that the only thing Windows Mobile had over the iPhone was better hardware to run on.
You're now pretending that because I say that the app you listed doesn't make the iPhone capable of Disk Mode, but is merely a workaround, that I somehow must be of the opinion that a computer is based on it's preinstalled hardware. If you cannot understand that what you do is full-on strawman, I really don't what to do. You obviously won't even read links or your own posts when I link to them.

Is the computer "crippled" because it lacks certain software-based functionality out of the box? If not, why is the iPhone any different?

Firmware ≠ software. Just like a way to send a file through wi-fi does not make the BT stack any less crippled.

Look, you complained about not being able to dump files onto the iPhone and the fact that you have to mail them to yourself. After I suggested an app that lets you dump files onto the iPhone, you've apparently upgraded the requirement to true UMS.

Haha, I wasn't "upgrading" anything – I was SPECIFYING what was meant by "DISK MODE". Do you not understand that sending something, mailing to yourself and so on, does NOT make the iPhone capable of Disk Mode? That the app you mentioned (Airshare) does NOT make it capable of DISK MODE (Which is UMS when using USB)?

Fine, it's not, so use DataCase instead, it lets you dump Office documents, PDFs, text, images, HTML, audio and video and view these files on the iPhone.

See above.

You just won't stop using your new favorite word, will you?

Once more for prince Knut: The reason you see it a lot is because it's an accurate description of what you do.

Newsflash: It was you who put forth that the lack of disk mode, i.e. SOFTWARE based functionality, was an example of the iPhone being "crippled". Live with it.

And again: Firmware ≠ Software. A piece of software that makes it possible to work around a crippled firmware does NOT make the iPhone capable of Disk Mode.

Next time you can't resist the urge to play the strawman card, make sure it's a context where I'm misrepresenting your position.

LOL, you really don't have much to bring to the table, do you? I only used the term, when you were indeed misrepresenting what I said. I can't help if most everything you do is an utter misrepresentation in order to make it seem you're correct.

If you want to retract your position then feel free to sneak back and edit your posts, so that it will look like I fabricated your position out of the blue.

Why would I? You did fabricate my position out of the blue. Secondly, one has to wonder why you would even suggest a thing like that. Apparently it must have crossed your own mind. Unfortunately I have quoted everything you said, so you cannot run from it.

Yes, it's what happens when you work at the content department of a music software company. And I never said I was an "engineer", the title is sound designer.

Oh, sorry, that's my bad –*I guess it was your attempt to throw more weight behind your opinion by using the word "professional" and your mention of a specific app that made me think you were a bit more pro than you really were …

The title of the f***ing thread is "Serious iPhone competition on the way?". It's a thread about a supposed iPhone killer from HTC. If you contribute to such a thread with complaints about the iPhone's lack of certain functionality, one would assume that you are -- given the topic at hand -- doing so because you feel that any phone offering this functionality on top of whatever the iPhone offers, is an iPhone killer as far as you're concerned.

Actually, I was reading the thread and just happened to stumble upon your unfounded claims delivered as universal truths. It was that I responded to. Before you, once again, make belief I said anything about an iPod Killer, perhaps you should consider that an argument that Windows Mobile is inferior an ALL counts except hardware is a blanket statement that you cannot pretend only exists in the vacuum of this thread. Your attempt to do so is pathetic at best.

My counterargument was, to make a long story short, that the bulk of the iPhone user base most likely don't give a sh*t about the shortcomings you listed, and ergo, the device in question is no iPhone killer.

By responding to a specific post of mine, you're responding to what I say, and as such, you're inferring I'm saying the opposite of you, that I somehow said this HTC would be an iPhone Killer. That is a strawman, since I never said anything like that. I disagreed with the notion that Windows Mobile is inferior except for the harware it runs on. It can't be THAT hard to fathom, you know.

How you make that into a logical fallacy is something you should take up with your therapist, although I reckon he or she will promptly be hit over the head with your beloved strawman card.

As mentioned numeorus times, I'm not the one using such arguments over and over again. I'm merely labeling them correctly.
The reason it's a logical fallacy is all context:
Since you weren't arguing against the HTC being an Iphone Killer – even if you want to revise history as of late – you were disagreeing with what I said, trying to prove me wrong. In that attempt to prove me wrong (i.e. prove that the iPhone was superior in everything except hardware specs), you tried to envoke sales numbers as an argument in itself –*in reality trying to argue that anything positive about anything must be true, because there's sales numbers (popularity) to prove it.
With the same argument you're trying to use, I could go:

"McDonald's food is nutritios, healthy, all you need to eat, and wholesome. The sales numbers prove it," while all the sales numbers prove is that it's popular.
Ever heard of the lowest common denominator?

Who said I'm American? I'm a fellow Scandinavian, otherwise I probably wouldn't have enough experience with Danes to have an opinion.

I'm sorry, but having ancestors abroad three generations back doesn't make you less of an american.

Secondly, it's obvious you don't have _any_ experience with danes whatsoever.
If you did, you would know that what you claimed was pulled out your rear, just like most everything you have posted in this thread till now.

 

[Niiro13]

Firmware ≠ software. Just like a way to send a file through wi-fi does not make the BT stack any less crippled.

I thought firmware was embedded software....

My question "Do you rate a computer based on its preinstalled software?" is not a strawman argument: Your basic gripe with the iPhone is that it doesn't come with certain features and functionality out of the box. I find this a ridiculous notion since a smartphone is essentially a computer, albeit a miniscule one, which -- in this case anyway -- lets you install third party software which adds the lacking functionality. And since you're apparently not sold on this argument, I had to ask -- do you rate a computer based on its preinstalled software? Is the computer "crippled" because it lacks certain software-based functionality out of the box? If not, why is the iPhone any different?

It's different, though. Isn't the Macbook Air crippled because it doesn't have an ethernet port? You have to use a USB one. Albeit, the USB to ethernet port does almost the same thing as a built-in one...but it's still crippled.

What you're arguing is if you're born normal, then learn a skill like sewing. Of course you don't rate yourself when you were born (when you couldn't sew). So just like software gets installed onto a computer, so you learn sewing.

What he's talking about, however, is being born without say an arm. Then using a robotic arm. You're still crippled even though you have the ability to learn to sew. The robotic arm is a workaround, but it won't get you all the functionality of a real arm.

 

[Anuba]

And again: Firmware ≠ Software. A piece of software that makes it possible to work around a crippled firmware does NOT make the iPhone capable of Disk Mode.

Ah, and I take it that any given firmware version is the be-all end-all showcase of a device's potential? In case you've missed it, Apple keeps adding new features and functionality. Your point about disk mode could be moot tomorrow for all you know.

Just like a way to send a file through wi-fi does not make the BT stack any less crippled.

No, the iPhone BT is only good for headsets for the time being, but I'm not complaining as I would rather use 11g WiFi than wait 4 hours for a large file transfer over BT.

"McDonald's food is nutritios, healthy, all you need to eat, and wholesome. The sales numbers prove it," while all the sales numbers prove is that it's popular.
Ever heard of the lowest common denominator?

The very definition of an "iPhone killer" is something that comes along and steals iPhone customers (existing or potential). If Burger King launches a new burger that steals a huge chunk out of the market share held by Big Mac, then it's a Big Mac killer. Oddly, you're now suggesting that sales numbers prove nothing, using a variation on the "50 billion flies can't be wrong -- eat poop" analogy. Why yes, indeed; sales figures never proved that one product is better than another -- thank you for enlightening us with this stunning new find -- but that's besides the point.

I'm sorry, but having ancestors abroad three generations back doesn't make you less of an american.

I'm sorry, but if I was an American I wouldn't be able to say stuff like, I dunno, "lyssna här din äckliga, feta, självgoda, narcisisstiska danskjävel -- ta dina jävla smörrebröd och din elefantöl och tryck up dem i din bleka håriga röv, och hälsa din kära Pia Kjaersgaard från mig. Ska jag ta det på danska också?"

It's a befitting testament to your towering self-righteousness that you actually think that you know better what part of the world people are from, than they do(!).

 

[Tosser]

Ah, and I take it that any given firmware version is the be-all end-all showcase of a device's potential? In case you've missed it, Apple keeps adding new features and functionality. Your point about disk mode could be moot tomorrow for all you know.

Well, since every other iPod to date had/have disk mode, and they REMOVED this feature with the advent of the Touch and iPhone, I would say that that would be a poor bet to make.
I really find your argument spurious: You are now trying to argue that because Apple technically could bring back Disk Mode, it's not crippled

The very definition of an "iPhone killer" is something that comes along and steals iPhone customers.

Yes, but the thread history shows that that wasn't anywhere near close to what you were trying to argue with your popularity-argument.

If Burger King launches a new burger that steals a huge chunk out of the market share held by Big Mac, then it's a Big Mac killer. Oddly, you're now suggesting that sales numbers prove nothing, using a variation on the "50 billion flies can't be wrong -- eat poop" analogy.

I can't be bothered repeating myself, as you seem to have a hard time understanding even the basics. See above for the rest.

Why yes, indeed; sales figures never proved that one product is better than another -- thank you for enlightening us with this stunning new find -- but that's besides the point.

Sigh … It's not besides the point to explain this very basic thing when you're trying to argue that because of the slaes numbers it must be true that the only thing WM has over the iPhone OS is the hardware it runs on.

I'm sorry, but if I was an American I wouldn't be able to say stuff like, I dunno, "lyssna här din äckliga, feta, självgoda, narcisisstiska danskjävel -- ta dina jävla smörrebröd och din elefantöl och tryck up dem i din bleka håriga röv, och hälsa din kära Pia Kjaersgaard från mig. Ska jag ta det på danska också?"

I don't know. Some americans speak other languages as well. However, the swedish quote reveals quite a lot of your personality: When you think you're under the radar of the moderators, you will not hesitate to say things like "listen up, you disgusting, fat, selfrighteous, narcissistic danish devil", and "shove them up your pale and hairy [arse]" to me.
Have you considered toning it down a bit?
It really is stunning how eloquent you can be

It's a befitting testament to your towering self-righteousness that you actually think that you know better what part of the world people are from, than they do(!).

Haha, it was an educated guess since your knowledge of your claimed neighbours amounts to zero. On the other hand, that blanket statement about danes being arrogant was propably the wrong thing to interpret from as it was as ill-founded as most of your other claims.

 

[Anuba]

It's different, though. Isn't the Macbook Air crippled because it doesn't have an ethernet port? You have to use a USB one. Albeit, the USB to ethernet port does almost the same thing as a built-in one...but it's still crippled.

Oh yeah, the MBA is crippled as hell, much more so than the iPhone. That's why I used it as an extreme example of products that are successful on the market despite glaring technical shortcomings. What we're discussing - or at least what I thought we were discussing - is whether the iPhone's strong points are enough to keep it safe from potential iPhone killers. The MBA's strong point is the form factor. The iPhone's strong point is the interface and how it interacts with the software. If something comes along that gives roughly the same user experience and better specs, then it has the potential to be an iPhone killer, and if it also can challenge the strength of the Apple brand and the impact of Apple's marketing, then it has a good chance of becoming an iPod killer. I'm just not seeing that in HTC Touch, that's all.

 

[Tosser]

Oh yeah, the MBA is crippled as hell, much more so than the iPhone. That's why I used it as an extreme example of products that are successful on the market despite glaring technical shortcomings. What we're discussing - or at least what I thought we were discussing - is whether the iPhone's strong points are enough to keep it safe from potential iPhone killers. The MBA's strong point is the form factor. The iPhone's strong point is the interface and how it interacts with the software. If something comes along that gives roughly the same user experience and better specs, then it has the potential to be an iPhone killer, and if it also can challenge the strength of the Apple brand and the impact of Apple's marketing, then it has a good chance of becoming an iPod killer. I'm just not seeing that in HTC Touch, that's all.

Is that really all you're discussing?

. Windows Mobile, on the other hand, is very much inferior to the iPhone OS. Perhaps this will have changed in 5 years' time, but as of today, no Windows Mobile or Symbian based phone has anything on the iPhone except better potentially better hardware specs.

my emphasis

Edit: Oh, well, I can't be bothered with you anymore as it's pointless to even link you to your own posts, you'll just ignore them and pretend you never wrote it.

 

[BergerFan]

Off the top of my head I can think of 3 Samsung touchscreen phones that have come out since July '07(Instinct, Tocco & Omnia), and I read over at PhoneDog.com, that 3 more HTC touchscreen models, to join the Touch Diamond are on the way... the Touch HD, Touch 3G, and Touch Viva... wtf?

 

[Anuba]

I don't know. Some americans speak other languages as well.

Some do, then there are others who don't speak English very well. Either way, it's a safe bet that the probability of any given American being fluent in Swedish is microscopic, and the probability of any American knowing who Pia Kjaersgaard of Dansk Folkeparti is, is even lower than the probability of an American figuring out a way to type å, ä and ö.

However, the swedish quote reveals quite a lot of your personality: When you think you're under the radar of the moderators, you will not hesitate to say things like "listen up, you disgusting, fat, selfrighteous, narcissistic danish devil", and "shove them up your pale and hairy [arse]" to me.

Under the radar? Surely you jest. There are plenty of Scandinavians here and I expected a translation to crop up sooner or later. Yours was fairly accurate, except the part about "devil" which was a literal translation that flew straight into the language barrier and broke its neck.

Haha, it was an educated guess since your knowledge of your claimed neighbours amounts to zero.

So I guess that's two "educated" guesses where you scored zero. As a resident of Skåne I've encountered more Danes in my day than any Texan has met Mexicans.

 

[Tosser]

Last post, I hope.

Some do, then there are others who don't speak English very well. Either way, it's a safe bet that the probability of any given American being fluent in Swedish is microscopic, and the probability of any American knowing who Pia Kjaersgaard of Dansk Folkeparti is, is even lower than the probability of an American figuring out a way to type å, ä and ö

.
What's your point?

Under the radar? Surely you jest. There are plenty of Scandinavians here and I expected a translation to crop up sooner or later. Yours was fairly accurate, except the part about "devil" which was a literal translation that flew straight into the language barrier and broke its neck.

Yup, I knew that. I was hesitant to write the proper word, so I decided to use that translation instead.
This however, just shows that you have no qualms calling names ad nauseum whener your pseudo argumentation isn't enough.

So I guess that's two "educated" guesses where you scored zero.

I'm sorry, but calling it miss on "two educated guesses" is quite the stretch. But I guess we know by now you won't stop at anything.

As a resident of Skåne I've encountered more Danes in my day than any Texan has met Mexicans.

You should come to Elsinore and the rest of Denmark before mouthing off about danes in general being "arrogant".
But again, you certianly won't stop at anything.

Funnily enough, once again you ignored the reposting of your claim that the iPhone OS was superior in all respects except perhaps hardware specs.

It's a shame I quoted it to begin with, isn't it?

 

[Anuba]

Is that really all you're discussing?

Do you really not see how this excerpt you keep flailing around like a madman relates to the discussion? Is it really possible to scrutinize every word like a nazi and still not put two and two together?

IN MY OPINION, humble or not, Windows Mobile and Symbian are both inferior to the iPhone's flavor of OS X, yes. Now, bear in mind that I'm about as far from a brainwashed Apple fanboy as they come. My platform of choice is Vista, I've been on Windows since 1992, I own two Macs but never for a second did I contemplate becoming a switcher. Working on Mac, especially under a looming deadline, feels like swimming in molasses and I'm three times faster on Windows. Get the picture? HAVING SAID THAT, I think that the iPhone is a bullseye hit and I have never seen any Symbian- or WM-based device come close to being that intuitive, stable or eye-pleasing. In fact, every Symbian- and WM-based device I've ever owned or tried has been a POS. And trust me, I've used a lot of them over the years. From early Windows CE-based Cassiopeias and iPaqs to recent Sony and Navigon GPS units, and what they've all had in common is: A) The interface is ugly, slow, quirky, unintuitive and plagued by a weird hierarchy and structure that has users reaching for the manual. But more importantly, these devices have all been more crash-prone than a blind drunk-driver. Basically, they live up to the myth perpetuated by Mac fanboys that Windows = hell. Does WM have the POTENTIAL to be something much better? Maybe, but based on my experience with these devices so far, it is my opinion that from a user perspective, they are inferior to iPhone in every way except perhaps hardware specs, and therefore I don't believe that they have iPhone killer potential, which, again, is what I thought we were discussing. If you disagree, if you feel that WM is vastly superior due to its support of disk mode, spreadsheet editing or *what-f-ever*, that's your prerogative.

I'm sorry, but calling it miss on "two educated guesses" is quite the stretch.

Well, your first educated (your word) guess was that I'm American, and you were wrong. Your second educated guess was that my knowledge of Danes amounts to zero, and you were wrong again. To call that a "stretch" is, well, wrong again.

 

[Tosser]

Do you really not see how this excerpt you keep flailing around like a madman relates to the discussion? Is it really possible to scrutinize every word like a nazi and still not put two and two together?

I feel sorry for you, if you cannot see how you blanket statement was just that, a blanket statement, and how it wasn't pertaining to this particular incarnation in the HTC, but was a general statement about the os. The only one here not being being able to put two and two together is you. You seemingly lack even the most basic understanding of what you utter means.

IN MY OPINION, humble or not, Windows Mobile and Symbian are both inferior to the iPhone's flavor of OS X, yes.

Yes, we have established that already. I do believe I was disagreeing with that very blanket statement.

Now, bear in mind that I'm about as far from a brainwashed Apple fanboy as they come. My platform of choice is Vista, I've been on Windows since 1992, I own two Macs but never for a second did I contemplate becoming a switcher. Working on Mac, especially under a looming deadline, feels like swimming in molasses and I'm three times faster on Windows. Get the picture?

Yes, I get that you are not even aware of how utter irrelevant this is. I never accused you of being a fanboy, and whether or not you use a mac or a windows pc is, as mentioned, utter irrelevant as we are not talking about macs vs pcs, but Windows Mobile vs. the iPhone OS.

HAVING SAID THAT, I think that the iPhone is a bullseye hit and I have never seen any Symbian- or WM-based device come close to being that intuitive, stable or eye-pleasing.

LOL, you seem to infer that the iPhone OS has been stable up until now?
Besides that, in your blanket statement you proclaimed that Windows Mobile was inferior in ALL aspects, besides the hardware it runs on.

In fact, every Symbian- and WM-based device I've ever owned or tried has been a POS. And trust me, I've used a lot of them over the years.

I don't care how many you claim to have owned, it's utterly irrelevant, as I'm not discussing your history with said equipment, I am disagreeing with your blanket statement.

From early Windows CE-based Cassiopeias and iPaqs to recent Sony and Navigon GPS units, and what they've all had in common is: A) The interface is ugly, slow, quirky, unintuitive and plagued by a weird hierarchy and structure that has users reaching for the manual.

Irrelevant. First of all, I don't have that experience at all. Secondly, it's fine you feel like that, but to go from that and to "WM is inferiour in everything except the hardware it runs on" is quite the stretch.

But more importantly, these devices have all been more crash-prone than a blind drunk-driver.

This might be because you "planted" the word in my head, by the mere mention of it, but this truly sound like a fanboy. That's not my experience at all. Not even close. Also, once again, you seem to be purporting the notion that the iPhone OS haven't been crash prone.

Basically, they live up to the myth perpetuated by Mac fanboys that Windows = hell.

Again, that's not my experience at all. On the contrary.

Does WM have the POTENTIAL to be something much better? Maybe, but based on my experience with these devices so far, it is my opinion that from a user perspective, they are inferior to iPhone in every way except perhaps hardware specs

Sigh … From someone who needs a little more than a dumb e-reader with web access, you really cannot continue to make such dumb and ignorant blanket statements.

, and therefore I don't believe that they have iPhone killer potential, which, again, is what I thought we were discussing.

Ah there it was. The unfounded logical leap with referrals to popularity.

Well, your first educated (your word) guess was that I'm American, and you were wrong.

Yup, but as I mentioned, I was basing it of your ignorant statement that arrogance was a danish trademark. It sounded like an american confusing Denmark with France (i.e. "they're both Europe").

Your second educated guess was that my knowledge of Danes amounts to zero, and you were wrong again. To call that a "stretch" is, well, wrong again.

You knowledge about danish traits DOES amount to zero. Just because you can name Pia Kjærsgaard and the name of one of our beers really does amount to nothing.

 

[BongoBanger]

You're correct on the expansion being allowed, but not on the standard memory on-board:

Pantech Duo: 64 MB
Moto Q Global: 256 flash + 96 MB SDRAM
Blackjack 2: 256 MB
Blackberry Curve: 64 MB

I could go on, but you get the point.

Well, no, I don't. These are all last generation models. The Samsung Omnia and i8510 have 8/16 GB, the Nokia N96 has 8GB/16B, the new HTC (not the Diamond) models will have 8 and/or 16GB. This is the expected standard of high end multimedia smartphones, at least in Europe.

Now it's true that the more business orientated models such as the E71, Bold and E66 don't have such large internal memory because they're not primarily multimedia devices. However, nearly all the latest consumer smartphones do.

And, in terms of memory expansion, most of those are expandable up to 2-4 GB.

Again nearly all the current or new smartphones can accept up to 32GB microSD cards. This is theoretical, mind, as 16GB cards are just coming on the market.

So the iPhone having 8GB on board with no expansion isn't that much of a limitation when compared to other phones.

To put it in perspective, a nearly two year old Nokia N95 can quit easily hold a 16GB card.

The non-expansion may be a limitation for users who want to have 80GB of music on their phone, but NO phone offers that, so it's a moot issue at this point in the game.

Right now a 16GB Omnia, i8510 or N96 with a 16GB card gives you 32Gb of storage. I appreciate it's not 80GB but it's still double what the iPhone offers. There are, of course, other benefits to expansion too.

 

[Anuba]

You knowledge about danish traits DOES amount to zero. Just because you can name Pia Kjærsgaard and the name of one of our beers really does amount to nothing.

Yeah, because those two trivial examples surely mark the beginning and end of my knowledge of Danes... Do you have Asperger's? You seem hell bent on taking everything literally, and jump on any figurative language like a rabid hyena. You've now spent ages on dissecting a purported "blanket statement" like it was the end of the world. Are you always this aggressive in your quest to bask in the incomparable gloriousness of being right?

Anyway, I'm out of time and interest, and you're way too creepy for comfort.

Bye.

 

[Tosser]

Yeah, because those two trivial examples surely mark the beginning and end of my knowledge of Danes... Do you have Asperger's? You seem hell bent on taking everything literally, and jump on any figurative language like a rabid hyena.

Oh, great, now you're accusing me of having aspergers, because you don't want to admit you made a horrendously unfounded argument.
But I see what you're doing now: You can't run away from what you said, so instead you now pretend you didn't mean it, and just to cover your bases, you try to make it look like I'm taking this "too litterally", even if there were no basis for NOT talking it litterally, and to add spice, you succumb to your urges to use ad hominems ad nauseum.

You've now spent ages on dissecting a purported "blanket statement" like it was the end of the world.

Apparently not even dissecting the argument and showing you the ins and outs of an argument and why an invalid argument doesn't works was enough to penetrate the ignorance.

Are you always this aggressive in your quest to bask in the incomparable gloriousness of being right?

LOL, I have done nothing but counter your horrendously unfounded and ignorant claims, strawmen and personal attacks.
Btw, since when was being right considered an insult?
In all seriousness, I do think you're projecting, just like when you "suggested" I go back and edit my posts so it would look like you replied to something completely different. This seems like a prime example from the same drawer.

Anyway, I'm out of time and interest, and you're way too creepy for comfort.

Ah, yes, because I'm not intimidated by your obscene ad hominems and aren't impressed by your "vast" knowledge of danish character traits, I must be creepy

Bye.

Good riddens.

 

[CocoaPuffs]

You basement dwellers have a lot of time.

 

[Tosser]

You basement dwellers have a lot of time.

Some people write and think pretty fast

 

[RxMac]

Anuba and Tosser: Why don't you both spare us all and quit flirting and just PM each other????

 

[PowerFullMac]

Since when was having Asberger's a bad thing?

 

[Tosser]

Since when was having Asberger's a bad thing?

According to Anuba, many things are bad: Being danish and being right as examples, so of course Aspergers must be really, really bad in his mind.

 

[PowerFullMac]

According to Anuba, many things are bad: Being danish and being right as examples, so of course Aspergers must be really, really bad in his mind.

Asberger's has many good points... Dont insult people coz they might have something... I have Asberger's and its not bad in my mind, I love having it, a lot of famous, rich smart people like Bill Gates and possibly Steve Jobs have Asberger's.

 

[Anuba]

Ah, yes, because I'm not intimidated by your obscene ad hominems and aren't impressed by your "vast" knowledge of danish character traits, I must be creepy

No, you're creepy because your social skills can only be measured on the negative scale.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that I've been wrong about everything I've said, that I've made unfounded claims and whatever it is you've accused me of -- why would anyone respond to that the way you do? If I encounter someone on a forum who I consider to be ignorant of the subject at hand, why would I jump all over them in a vindictive rampage and spew bile and insults like Hitler on acid? I converse politely regardless of whether I talk to intelligent or dimwitted individuals. I did however make one hell of an exception for you, but I would be hard pressed not to as you're by far the most unpleasant human being I've encountered during my 14+ years on the web, and that's saying something considering I once talked to someone who claimed to be a serial killer.

 

[Tosser]

Asberger's has many good points... Dont insult people coz they might have something...

Listen, I am NOT insulting anyone.

I am saying that Anuba will use ANYTHING as an insult – even made up stuff. And that even being danish is used as an insult (as he did in the swedish quote), not to mention "being right" was an insult, one can only assume that his comment about having Aspergers was meant as even bigger insult. Sheesh. Please read what I write, instead of just guessing.

I have Asberger's and its not bad in my mind, I love having it, a lot of famous, rich smart people like Bill Gates and possibly Steve Jobs have Asberger's.

Yes, propably. Again, I wasn't the one slinging the insult. Please direct your harm to the proper person.