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Here's reality...

Anyone voluntarily pulling any apps out of it- and I acknowledge some certainly will try- will see the plunge in established revenue flow from NOT being where most shoppers shop.

Reality: Epic already took the plunge even before it was allowed on the App Store. If Epic saw the risk/reward *before* it was allowed on the App Store, just how many sees the reward now that Apple is allowing it?

Let's further push your apparent point that some customers won't want to buy elsewhere so what will they do? Pick almost any given app and you can find a bunch of similar ones with similar capabilities.

Your primary argument was that customers wouldn't need to do anything as their app was supposedly available on the App Store and others. Being forced to buy a clone to continue their workflow goes against what you were saying earlier.
 
Makes me sick to my stomach what the EU is doing to the iPhone. I wish Apple would just leave instead dealing with this nightmare

wait... did you really just suggest that this "nightmare" is worth forfeiting close to $100 billion in yearly revenue?
 
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They're not free. These stores all take between 500MB and 2GB of storage you'll never get back. Just to install some games.

On a PC with a decent hard drive / SSD it's not an issue. On a 32-128GB phone this because a big issue.
By your logic, an operating system isn't free because it takes 2-20 gigs to install. Saying that you can't get the storage back is hardly true. the app store takes up storage space as well, so what is your point? You aren't making a good counter argument.
 
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I tried Setapp years ago, but I just couldn't continue having many unrelated apps all tied to a single subscription. Stop paying and they all stop functioning. That model just doesn't work for me.
 
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The choice is also to use whatever app store you want.
It's not terribly complicated.
Actually, you made the choice up front knowing that Apple had a walled garden. So you lack of understanding of that fact is your own fault. You HAD the choice to choose Android, and you chose not to. You also have to live with the consequences of your choices.
 
I have had to clean mac's with viruses.. and most now need antiviral software...A walled garden is perfect for me.
True. If you have gotten viruses due to your app acquisition choices on Mac, you definitely need a walled garden. However, we can do better so we can have more choices as we are more discerning. So, we do not have to suffer the same walled garden just because we are better.
 
So no side-loading? Just 'alternative' app stores? Being an iPhone user must be so lame damn
must be why there was 13% move from Android to Apple last year in new iPhone sales.
not prior or existing customers. switchers...
 
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except the whole point of epic attempting that stunt was for that purpose: taking Apple's cut.
And Epic get their own store and still have to be vetted by Apple to sign apps and pay 27% Technology Access Fee...

What a huge win... not.
All that legal posturing, loss of custom for years, loss of credibility and reputation and all for an extra 3%.
THREE PERCENT... hahahaha
 
yes, but one instance does not necessarily indicate a trend either way.
1. never said a trend under the pretense of companies going against App Store rules
2. if one company was willing to break the rules for the cut, then there clearly is an incentive when the rules are changed to allow it.
 
By your logic, an operating system isn't free because it takes 2-20 gigs to install. Saying that you can't get the storage back is hardly true. the app store takes up storage space as well, so what is your point? You aren't making a good counter argument.

I never said an operating system is free of storage requirements. Same for the App Store. You are trying to invalidate my point by using words I NEVER used!!!

And even if I would count those, adding additional stores ALSO requires additional storage.

If adding additional stores would have been nothing but adding additional package sources, I'd be okay with it. A package source should only take around 10-100KB. But an App Marketplace would require new binaries, new graphics, text, and other data. (Cache files, etc) Which would easily go from 100-200MB to a few GB. Even on a phone.
 
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1) Do I think the sky will fall on March 6th due to these EU-only app stores? No. But that's not the point.
2) Do I think EU users will be flooded with malware on March 6th? No. But that's not the point.
3) Do I think Non-EU users are going to suffer from this change on March 6th? No. But that's not the point.

Here's MY point: Who should make these decisions? Government Agencies or a Free & Fair Marketplace? Apple or the EU?

A) I think the EU deciding on USB C was really silly. Apple was already in the process of transitioning. And I don't agree with any of the "look at all the money we'll now save by not buying multiple cables." Forcing people who already owned lightning cables and adapters to change forced them to buy new cables. Change in such things is inevitable in technology, and I trust Apple to watch out for my interests more than I trust the EU.

B) The cookies thing is a perfect example of stupid politicians who have no real insight doing something stupid. Those pop-ups achieve exactly the opposite of the intended effect. Now, because nobody can take the time to read the fine print on every web site, we simply click "accept" and move on. But the result of this is that those web sites can put whatever they want and we've "agreed" to it without actually knowing what we've agreed to. The EU simply forces me to give tacit approval now to whatever that web site is doing. They haven't solved any problems. I trust Apple to provide better solutions on this front than I trust the EU, who has proven in this instance how idiotic politicans can be (and I worked in politics and government for more than 20 years).

C) The EU is motivated to reduce security on the iPhone to enhance its ever-increasing surveillance of everyday citizens. They are NOT motivated to increase security. And even if they were, as the above mentioned cookies debacle shows, Government is frequently ham-handed in its attempts to do anything better left to the market and technology companies.

D) I don't think the EU cares about metrics at all with this new legislation. They won't measure any outcomes. This was not about consumer protection at all. This is naked protectionism for EU business interests and government interests, pure and simple. Sold to EU citizens as consumer protection. Whether prices are lowered or not, whether security is increased or not, whether consumers are better off or not will not be calculated, and will have no sunsetting affect on this legislation. As many of you have noted, the hoped-for changes are not generally found in the Android world.

E) The IOS market IS different than the Android Market. It is a much more valuable market because it has a more valuable customer base. This will, in my estimation, make it much more likely for big 3rd parties like Amazon, Netflix, Spotify, etc. to do everything they can to access and sell to Apple's curated customer list without providing any compensation back to Apple. This will have the affect of splitting the IOS market into segments, and will usher in a cat-and-mouse game between Apple and the big players. Who care much less about customer experience than they do getting free access to a resource they didn't build.

F) This will not stop here. The EU obviously has much deeper plans. Cookies, USB C, Alternate App Stores are just the appetizer. What these actions are doing is taking these decisions away from consumers and business, and inserting government into what is best left to consumer choice and markets.

G) In a world of increasing surveillance and privacy concerns, I have purposely chosen to centralize my computing on Apple devices. I chose this walled garden. Again, do I think the sky will fall in immediately? No, and to characterize mine and others' concerns in this manner is disingenuous. The concern here is that the EU is trying to crack open a system that I and many (most?) Apple users have chosen specifically because it is closed. Do I think security will immediately suffer? No. But I take a long-term view on these issues, and I've decided a closed system is better for me and my family than is an open system.

H) Apple is not a monopoly, and to keep arguing that it is employing "anti-competitive behavior" in a context in which they only have about 27% marketshare in the EU is to radically misrepresent the ideas of anti-competitive behavior. "Gatekeeper" is an invented term to get around the long-held notions of monopoly in order to specifically target non-EU technology companies.

I) IOS and MacOS have fundamental differences. And, Apple, in my estimation, is moving away, rapidly, from the MacOS model toward the IOS model. You may not like that. You may hate it. But I DO like it. I have chosen it. Saying "IOS will only be just like Mac OS, so what's the problem?" is a disingenous argument. It doesn't recognize the reasons for the development of IOS as it has been developed. But again, even if you hate it, I don't. And many others have chosen IOS for these reasons.

J) You actually CAN choose Android if a more open system is your preference. This "I'm locked into Apple forever and ever and can't get out!" argument is silly.

K) Good luck relying on the EU to decide all of these issues for you. I don't trust the EU to have my best interests at heart. Best of luck to you if you do.
 
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Actually, you made the choice up front knowing that Apple had a walled garden. So you lack of understanding of that fact is your own fault. You HAD the choice to choose Android, and you chose not to. You also have to live with the consequences of your choices.

Huh?
I have an iPhone and a Galaxy.
Barking up the wrong tree, boss.
 
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Apple praised macOS for its security and now, all of a sudden, having no closely guarded AppStore becomes a security risk?

Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers, who is presiding over the Epic vs. Apple case, asked Federighi about why the Mac can have multiple app stores, but not the iPhone. “It is regularly exploited on the Mac,” Federighi explained. “iOS has established a dramatically higher bar for customer protection. The Mac is not meeting that bar today.”

“Today, we have a level of malware on the Mac that we don’t find acceptable,” Federighi added.

That’s how Apple sees security on MAC.
 
1) Do I think the sky will fall on March 6th due to these EU-only app stores? No. But that's not the point.
2) Do I think EU users will be flooded with malware on March 6th? No. But that's not the point.
3) Do I think Non-EU users are going to suffer from this change on March 6th? No. But that's not the point.

Here's MY point: Who should make these decisions? Government Agencies or a Free & Fair Marketplace? Apple or the EU?

A) I think the EU deciding on USB C was really silly. Apple was already in the process of transitioning. And I don't agree with any of the "look at all the money we'll now save by not buying multiple cables." Forcing people who already owned lightning cables and adapters to change forced them to buy new cables. Change in such things is inevitable in technology, and I trust Apple to watch out for my interests more than I trust the EU.

B) The cookies thing is a perfect example of stupid politicians who have no real insight doing something stupid. Those pop-ups achieve exactly the opposite of the intended effect. Now, because nobody can take the time to read the fine print on every web site, we simply click "accept" and move on. But the result of this is that those web sites can put whatever they want and we've "agreed" to it without actually knowing what we've agreed to. The EU simply forces me to give tacit approval now to whatever that web site is doing. They haven't solved any problems. I trust Apple to provide better solutions on this front than I trust the EU, who has proven in this instance how idiotic politicans can be (and I worked in politics and government for more than 20 years).

C) The EU is motivated to reduce security on the iPhone to enhance it's ever-increasing surveillance of everyday citizens. They are NOT motivated to increase security. And even if they were, as the above mentioned cookies debacle shows, Government is frequently ham-handed in its attempts to do anything better left to the market and technology companies.

D) I don't think the EU cares about metrics at all with this new legislation. They won't measure any outcomes. This was not about consumer protection at all. This is naked protectionism, pure and simple. Whether prices are lowered or not, whether security is increased or not, whether consumers are better off or not will not be calculated, and will have no sunsetting affect on this legislation. As many of you have noted, the hoped-for changes are not generally found in the Android world.

E) The IOS market IS different than the Android Market. It is a much more valuable market because it has a more valuable customer base. This will, in my estimation, make it much more likely for big 3rd parties like Amazon, Netflix, Spotify, etc. to do everything they can to access and sell to Apple's curated customer list without providing any compensation back to Apple. This will have the affect of splitting the IOS market into segments, and will usher in a cat-and-mouse game between Apple and the big players. Who care much less about customer experience than they do getting free access to a resource they didn't build.

F) This will not stop here. The EU obviously has much deeper plans. Cookies, USB C, Alternate App Stores are just the appetizer. What these actions are doing is taking these decisions away from consumers and business, and inserting government into what is best left to consumer choice and markets.

G) In a world of increasing surveillance and privacy concerns, I have purposely chosen to centralize my computing on Apple devices. I chose this walled garden. Again, do I think the sky will fall in immediately? No, and to characterize mine and others' concerns in this manner is disingenuous. The concern here is that the EU is trying to crack open a system that I and many (most?) Apple users have chosen specifically because it is closed. Do I think security will immediately suffer? No. But I take a long-term view on these issues, and I've decided a closed system is better for me and my family than is an open system.

H) Apple is not a monopoly, and to keep arguing that it is employing "anti-competitive behavior" in a context in which they only have about 27% marketshare is to radically misrepresent the ideas of anti-competitive behavior. "Gatekeeper" is an invented term to get around the long-held notions of monopoly in order to specifically target non-EU technology companies.

I) IOS and MacOS have fundamental differences. And, Apple, in my estimation, is moving away, rapidly, from the MacOS model toward the IOS model. You may not like that. You may hate it. But I DO like it. I have chosen it. Saying "IOS will only be just like Mac OS, so what's the problem?" is a disingenous argument. It doesn't recognize the reasons for the development of IOS as it has been developed. But again, even if you hate it, I don't. And many others have chosen IOS for these reasons.

J) You actually CAN choose Android if a more open system is your preference. This "I'm locked into Apple forever and ever and can't get out!" argument is silly.

K) Good luck relying on the EU to decide all of these issues for you. I don't trust the EU to have my best interests at heart. Best of luck to you if you do.
Waiting for an App Store to open that looks legit but is actually a front for a covert operation.
 



That’s how Apple sees security on MAC.

Aha, then Apple also need to rewrite their whole “Privacy and Security” section for Sonoma. They cannot have it both ways:

 
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