Should Apple allow users to downgrade to ios 6?

[Nevaborn]

A huge number of people use 3GS these days and can't be on iOS 7 even if they wanted to, and if you throw in tons of people who got the original iPad when it was released and still have and use it, you have that much larger of a userbase all who can't use iOS 7. Apple not any developers aren't exactly worried about that causing some sort of fragmentation or other issues. If people were allowed to downgrade that would just add on to that already fairly large population of users without creating a black hole or anything else problematic happening.

Give me a evidence to support this huge number, where is it ?

Same place your talking from is where. It is one thing to have devices that are no longer supported due to hardware limitations, It is quite another to allow people to start choosing what firmware to run. It becomes a nightmare for developers and it does allow people to take advantage of exploits an update would of prevented.

You say Apple doesnt care again show evidence... Again you have none. The lack of understanding you show is only exceeded by the stupidity of the idea. Have we not learnt from Android what mess it causes to have multiple OS versions in the wild and you cant support them all causing limitations and issues.

Apple want people on the latest OS that is optimised for the latest hardware, has the latest features and the latest security upgrades. This makes it easier for developers and helps protects users.

If you like people being on multiple OS versions, getting no support and causing a security nightmare and nightmare for developers then go to Android already.

 

[C DM]

Give me a evidence to support this huge number, where is it ?

Same place your talking from is where. It is one thing to have devices that are no longer supported due to hardware limitations, It is quite another to allow people to start choosing what firmware to run. It becomes a nightmare for developers and it does allow people to take advantage of exploits an update would of prevented.

You say Apple doesnt care again show evidence... Again you have none. The lack of understanding you show is only exceeded by the stupidity of the idea. Have we not learnt from Android what mess it causes to have multiple OS versions in the wild and you cant support them all causing limitations and issues.

Apple want people on the latest OS that is optimised for the latest hardware, has the latest features and the latest security upgrades. This makes it easier for developers and helps protects users.

If you like people being on multiple OS versions, getting no support and causing a security nightmare and nightmare for developers then go to Android already.

Feel free to provide actual evidence of something truly bad happening if people were allowed to downgrade. Simply saying that this or that would likely happen doesn't prove it. Somehow the Android world, as "fragmented" as it is, is surviving quite well, and is in fact flourishing, even with tons upon tons of people on all kinds of older versions (and by years too, not just last one or two versions).

 

[Nanasaki]

Give me a evidence to support this huge number, where is it ?

Same place your talking from is where. It is one thing to have devices that are no longer supported due to hardware limitations, It is quite another to allow people to start choosing what firmware to run. It becomes a nightmare for developers and it does allow people to take advantage of exploits an update would of prevented.

You say Apple doesnt care again show evidence... Again you have none. The lack of understanding you show is only exceeded by the stupidity of the idea. Have we not learnt from Android what mess it causes to have multiple OS versions in the wild and you cant support them all causing limitations and issues.

Apple want people on the latest OS that is optimised for the latest hardware, has the latest features and the latest security upgrades. This makes it easier for developers and helps protects users.

If you like people being on multiple OS versions, getting no support and causing a security nightmare and nightmare for developers then go to Android already.

Apple wants people on latest OS, latest hardware with latest features... But in reality, not everyone will upgrade to latest OS, latest hardware... And in fact, older hardware runs newer OS slower and experience isn't as good as running older software. iPad 3 certainly suffers with iOS 7.

Again, many people with older device running older version of iOS. I saw many people still carrying iPad 1 which runs iOS 5. Many app developers want these market as well and they do opted in to support older OS.

I believe, if someone choose not to upgrade to latest version of OS, will accept running older version apps.

Again, lots of people using older hardware with older OS, and I have not see any security outbreak or security nightmare happening.

 

[GroovyMan1976]

If Apple allowed downgrading it will only increase the fragmentation that you see in Android - that makes it harder for developers to release high quality apps.

As a developer, if I have to make sure my app runs well across everything from iOS 4 to 7 it's going to drive my costs and cut my margins. If I know 75% (and rising) of the user base are running the latest OS it's a more compelling proposition developing for the platform.

It's going to be the same story for Apple themselves.

 

[Paddle1]

Haha. That wins the prize for possibly the stupidest thing I've read all week (and frequenting this forum I've read a lot of stupid in the last seven days).

What is wrong with Windows Vista but not 7? People hate Vista for no reason because it wouldn't work with old hardware and software at launch (this was fixed).

 

[Nanasaki]

What is wrong with Windows Vista but not 7? People hate Vista for no reason because it wouldn't work with old hardware and software at launch (this was fixed).

Per SP2 Windows Vista was terrible. You get all short of driver issue, slow down, lots of softwares weren't compatible with Vista... However, Windows Vista SP2 fixed many of the issue...

Vista can be compared with iOS 7. Vista is the first Windows version get visual overhaul, Windows Vista also introduced many things that laid foundations to Windows 7.

Many people think Windows 7 is what Windows Vista suppose to be and they are correct. Originally, Microsoft wanted to implement many revolutionary features, like new file system, new way of search, but they failed achieve in time. So they stripe away many things, made Windows Vista. In many way, Windows Vista was not in prime time.

 

[Djay1]

If Apple allowed downgrading it will only increase the fragmentation that you see in Android - that makes it harder for developers to release high quality apps.

As a developer, if I have to make sure my app runs well across everything from iOS 4 to 7 it's going to drive my costs and cut my margins. If I know 75% (and rising) of the user base are running the latest OS it's a more compelling proposition developing for the platform.

It's going to be the same story for Apple themselves.

As you point out there were high stakes indeed for Apple, so one would have expected a great deal of "sweat equity" invested into iOS7. More "sweat" may now have to be invested "after the fact" than apparently had been invested before the release.

 

[Paddle1]

Per SP2 Windows Vista was terrible. You get all short of driver issue, slow down, lots of softwares weren't compatible with Vista... However, Windows Vista SP2 fixed many of the issue...

Vista can be compared with iOS 7. Vista is the first Windows version get visual overhaul, Windows Vista also introduced many things that laid foundations to Windows 7.

Many people think Windows 7 is what Windows Vista suppose to be and they are correct. Originally, Microsoft wanted to implement many revolutionary features, like new file system, new way of search, but they failed achieve in time. So they stripe away many things, made Windows Vista. In many way, Windows Vista was not in prime time.

I know but Windows XP was the first version with a visual overhaul.

 

[Nanasaki]

I know but Windows XP was the first version with a visual overhaul.

Windows vista was the first Windows with Windows Aero, Live Thumbnail, Flip 3D. This visua effect wasn't part of Windows XP. Windows XP is just like a theme. Windows Vista was the first changes the way Windows looked like. Windows 7 retained most of Aero effect, expaned Aero effect, peak functionailities, Flip 3D. Windows 8 kept the overall look and feel but without Aero Glass.

 

[hyhybt]

"First visual overhaul" is still false, though. Standard XP looks as different from its predecessors as Vista does, regardless of how that was accomplished internally. For that matter, if I remember rightly, 3.1 looks significantly different from 95.

 

[Paddle1]

Windows vista was the first Windows with Windows Aero, Live Thumbnail, Flip 3D. This visua effect wasn't part of Windows XP. Windows XP is just like a theme. Windows Vista was the first changes the way Windows looked like. Windows 7 retained most of Aero effect, expaned Aero effect, peak functionailities, Flip 3D. Windows 8 kept the overall look and feel but without Aero Glass.

Windows Aero is also a theme, the other things you mentioned are features, not just visual design. The welcome screen in XP is different from older versions too.

 

[Italianblend]

There is no argument around the fact that it does slow certain devices down. If apple would create an ios that accommodates for this (like restricting animations, etc on older devices in the current ios to make it run smoothly) then I'd be more okay with forcing people to stay.

 

[Nevaborn]

There is no argument around the fact that it does slow certain devices down. If apple would create an ios that accommodates for this (like restricting animations, etc on older devices in the current ios to make it run smoothly) then I'd be more okay with forcing people to stay.

They do restrict animations and functionality as it would put strain on the phone. The fact the iPhone 4 still gets support after 3 years is impressive. Your lucky to get 6 months elsewhere.

To create different builds however is just more fragmentation. Id rather just lose the bells and whistles while maintaining core features.

 

[squeakr]

"First visual overhaul" is still false, though. Standard XP looks as different from its predecessors as Vista does, regardless of how that was accomplished internally. For that matter, if I remember rightly, 3.1 looks significantly different from 95.

+1 to this. From someone around from the beginning I was thinking the exact same thing about how the change from 3.1 to 95 was a huge monumental change in appearance and functionality and let's not forget Bob either ( and Vista was a failure as the drivers were limited and performance wise it was a pig, slow and bloated causing performance to suffer greatly. If one only used it after SP2 when it became useable, they wouldn't think it that bad but it took a long time to get there and by that time 7 was already out and people had moved onto that or back to XP, thus sealing its fate).

 

[Altis]

If Apple allowed downgrading it will only increase the fragmentation that you see in Android - that makes it harder for developers to release high quality apps.

As a developer, if I have to make sure my app runs well across everything from iOS 4 to 7 it's going to drive my costs and cut my margins. If I know 75% (and rising) of the user base are running the latest OS it's a more compelling proposition developing for the platform.

It's going to be the same story for Apple themselves.

So the people paying for the devices to run apps on and paying for the apps themselves has no concern to the developers?

It will affect your bottom line if the apps don't run well because of iOS flaws, or if people start to abandon iOS.

Start thinking about the end users, the ones who finance the entire ecosystem. Think about what they might want and need.

I still have an iPad 1 on iOS 5, and know what? Everything I use it for still works perfectly fine. Go ahead and design apps just for iOS 7 if you want, but regardless of downgradability, you'll need to support iOS 6 a while longer anyways.

Letting people revert back until the first major revision of iOS 7 is released will not reduce your need to support iOS 6 longer as developer. It's ultimately the developers' choice what they want and choose to support.

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

I continue to be shocked that 45% of people (currently) have voted No to allowing others to downgrade.

Like WTF should it matter to them? It's bizarre.

I have no interest in downgrading, but I'm not for stopping others doing it if they want to.

____

EDIT:


It also seems a strange decision by Apple when they've recently announced the App Store capability of "Last Compatible" app versions for legacy devices. I understand they did this to support older hardware, rather than to support those customers that choose to be on iOS 6, but it's a similar principle.

 

[macred]

I continue to be shocked that 45% of people (currently) have voted No to allowing others to downgrade.

Like WTF should it matter to them? It's bizarre.

I have no interest in downgrading, but I'm not for stopping others doing it if they want to.

____

EDIT:


It also seems a strange decision by Apple when they've recently announced the App Store capability of "Last Compatible" app versions for legacy devices. I understand they did this to support older hardware, rather than to support those customers that choose to be on iOS 6, but it's a similar principle.

Apple has nothing but it's own interests in mind, combined with a segment of its user base that puts Apple ahead of themselves, and Apple wins big...that's why

 

[CTHarrryH]

And after you get to downgrade then you'll want Apple to support all its old IOS versions and all the app vendors to support apps on old IOS versions.

I want Apple and all the app vendors to move forward and not spend time and money supporting old stuff.

They should refuse any bug reports that aren't on the must current version, etc. Many software vendors do that and we all live with it.

 

[me7]

And after you get to downgrade then you'll want Apple to support all its old IOS versions and all the app vendors to support apps on old IOS versions.

I want Apple and all the app vendors to move forward and not spend time and money supporting old stuff.

They should refuse any bug reports that aren't on the must current version, etc. Many software vendors do that and we all live with it.

Nobody wants Apple or app developers to invest further into iOS6. We just want to revert to iOS6 as it is until Apple has fixed the major problems of iOS7. Please stop putting such claims into our mouths.

 

[ValSalva]

Nobody wants Apple or app developers to invest further into iOS6. We just want to revert to iOS6 as it is until Apple has fixed the major problems of iOS7. Please stop putting such claims into our mouths.

Exactly. I'm happy to use my 5 with iOS 6 for the next several months with all the versions of the apps it's running now. Actually I wouldn't mind skipping iOS 7 altogether and moving directly to iOS 8 when I'm due for an upgrade to the iPhone 6

 

[GroovyMan1976]

Start thinking about the end users, the ones who finance the entire ecosystem. Think about what they might want and need.

Quite.. and the stats say that the majority of people who finance the eco system will, and do upgrade to the latest version. They don't tend to hang on. These people want apps that run well on the latest iOS. They don't want apps throttled back for an OS that the stats say less and less people are using.

Agreed, now is not the time to release an iOS7 only app, but if I was starting an app from scratch now, I wouldn't be supporting iOS6. By the time my new app makes it to the market there would be so few iOS6 users that it's just not worth the time and money to support them.

 

[johnnyboy360]

No.

Theres a few reasons for this.

Change has to happen. No matter who you are. Apple will not force the update upon you, but if you do the update, get used to it. Why should we stand still in updates? Do you want a phone that may not be secure when hit with the latest bugs/viruses just because a brand spanking new, rebuilt iOS has been re written and re made? I have got hardly any bugs and if there are some, they are not very major. Also, think fragmentation. Then look at Android and how messed up it is because of fragmentation. Older users being locked out. Support not being given out. If Apple didn't think the latest firmware couldn't be run on an older device, it wouldn't have been given it. The iPhone 4. Launched in 2010. Runs 2013 software. Samsung Galaxy S. Launched same year (2010). Latest official software release, 2.3.6, launched in 2011. It may run slow ish on a 4, but it works. Its functional. Its official. You don't have to force it by using a cyganemod or whatever its called.

By using the latest firmware, you have access to the latest apps, latest security and the latest support. And developers can program apps for the latest software and provide compatability for less versions than Android.

 

[SakuraSuki]

No.

Theres a few reasons for this.

Change has to happen. No matter who you are. Apple will not force the update upon you, but if you do the update, get used to it. Why should we stand still in updates? Do you want a phone that may not be secure when hit with the latest bugs/viruses just because a brand spanking new, rebuilt iOS has been re written and re made? I have got hardly any bugs and if there are some, they are not very major. Also, think fragmentation. Then look at Android and how messed up it is because of fragmentation. Older users being locked out. Support not being given out. If Apple didn't think the latest firmware couldn't be run on an older device, it wouldn't have been given it. The iPhone 4. Launched in 2010. Runs 2013 software. Samsung Galaxy S. Launched same year (2010). Latest official software release, 2.3.6, launched in 2011. It may run slow ish on a 4, but it works. Its functional. Its official. You don't have to force it by using a cyganemod or whatever its called.

By using the latest firmware, you have access to the latest apps, latest security and the latest support. And developers can program apps for the latest software and provide compatability for less versions than Android.

1. Change will happen regardless even if I choose to downgrade. It isn't like allowing users to downgrade will delay changes.

2. Why should user being force to accept things they don't like? How can you tell if you really like one thing without trying it? If I upgrade to iOS 7 just want to try it out, then why should I being forced to accept it?

3. When users choose to downgrade, they most likely will accept running older version of apps and that's fine

4. I hardly hear any major virus outbreak on iOS yet. And IF user wish to do so, they will accept the risk.

5. Yes, iPhone 4 running iOS 7. How many features of iOS 7 available for iOS 7? It is like running a older car and you force it run constantly in 120km/h. Yes, it is functional, yes it work. But when it can run older iOS version much faster, why should user force to stay in iOS 7?

 

[me7]

No.

Theres a few reasons for this.

Change has to happen. No matter who you are. Apple will not force the update upon you, but if you do the update, get used to it. Why should we stand still in updates? Do you want a phone that may not be secure when hit with the latest bugs/viruses just because a brand spanking new, rebuilt iOS has been re written and re made? I have got hardly any bugs and if there are some, they are not very major. Also, think fragmentation. Then look at Android and how messed up it is because of fragmentation. Older users being locked out. Support not being given out. If Apple didn't think the latest firmware couldn't be run on an older device, it wouldn't have been given it. The iPhone 4. Launched in 2010. Runs 2013 software. Samsung Galaxy S. Launched same year (2010). Latest official software release, 2.3.6, launched in 2011. It may run slow ish on a 4, but it works. Its functional. Its official. You don't have to force it by using a cyganemod or whatever its called.

By using the latest firmware, you have access to the latest apps, latest security and the latest support. And developers can program apps for the latest software and provide compatability for less versions than Android.

These are some weird (if not paranoid) conclusions. Apple allowing installations of older versions would have no effect on the iPhone 4 being able to run iOS7. You try to make it sound as if the current installation lockdown enables the iPhone 4 to run iOS7. This is totally unrelated. Actually, I feel unnecessarily antagonized, you seem to claim that people who want to revert to older versions also want to take iOS7 away from iPhone 4 users. This makes no sense at all.

I also don't see how it would make iOS "stand still" if I could use iOS6 while Apple fixes iOS7. Having every user on an unfinished beta does not mean progress. The whole purpose of beta versions for developers is to protect regular customers from the problems that we have now. Separating development builds from stable builds is best-practice in software engineering and Apple making such a rookie mistake is not progress.
(I admit it's not really a rookie mistake, they just wanted ANY new version to ship with the new iPhone for marketing. The developers knew very well how bad iOS7 was when they shipped it.)

It's also strange how you bring up CyanogenMod as a negative. The existence of CyanogenMod means that Android is steadily moving forward, each new version being better than the previous. It means that users of older phones jump through hoops to get the latest version because it's a better version.
If iOS7 was a success, people with 3GS would crave for an iOS version of CyanogenMod that would allow them to run the latest OS. We have the opposite situation, however. iOS7 is so buggy and has such usability mistakes that users crave for fragmentation. They want older versions rather than the new one.
If your users demand older versions, you have bigger problems that potential fragmentation.

 

[Dented]

"First visual overhaul" is still false, though. Standard XP looks as different from its predecessors as Vista does, regardless of how that was accomplished internally. For that matter, if I remember rightly, 3.1 looks significantly different from 95.

I think you're splitting hairs here - of course very version of windows from 2.0 onwards has seen a "visual overhaul" of sorts since they all look a little different (and arguably the jump from 3.1 to 95 was the biggest since that introduced things like the start bar that people are still fighting to keep in windows 8) - but the point being made about vista was that it introduced a lot of new visual technologies that have formed the basis of 7 and 8 since so I suppose deserves some credit for that.

Back to IOS - I've pretty much given up on this thread since the rump of posters still whinging clearly aren't going to see sense on this issue - but I would just ask, if IOS 7 really has been the train wreck people are claiming it has been on older devices, where is the popular movement against it? Where is the consumer action? The baying mob outside Infinite Loop? All those iPhone 4's, iPads and iPods that have supposedly been rendered completely unusable - which must number in their many millions - where are all the owners? Aside from the odd thread like this comprising a dozen or so aggrieved souls, purporting to speak for the majority, it does seem rather quiet now the initial dust has cleared. Doesn't it?

I'll say this so nobody is under any illusion - I love IOS 7. I've been using iPhones since the 3G in 2008 (running IOS 2 without multitasking, picture messaging or copy and paste), and have used every version of IOS since. When I got my iPhone 5 earlier this year I was quite disappointed by the upgrade over my 4S and some of the bugs present on it in IOS 6, but since updating to 7 it's been a far better device and made me love my iPhone again. As far as I'm concerned it's already better - both in design, features and execution - than IOS 6 ever was.