Should Apple allow users to downgrade to ios 6?

[P1otr]

It's not fair. One should be able to restore any device to the state it was purchased. I bought my iPad with 6.1.3 on board, upgraded to iOS 7, but hate it. I guess I should be given the oportunity to go back and restore it to its factory condition.

 

[djtech42]

While I somewhat agree that people should be able to downgrade, I don't like the fact that some people aren't on the latest version of iOS. It just makes things more complicated, especially when apps are being updated for the redesign. Developers have to keep track of two different designs of apps when everybody should just move on. I feel like iOS 7's launch is somewhere between what Apple did with Final Cut Pro X (brutal force to new paradigm) and Logic Pro X (backwards compatibility, new skin, works same way)

 

[me7]

The being forced to upgrade statement and one having a choice is entirely true. I am not defending Apple and never will. I am just saying that Apple is not the sole blame. It would be one thing if your device was broken and when you got it handled at the Genius Bar it came back with IOS7 installed, or the replacement had it installed already. That would then be no fault of the owners and I would sympathize with them. For those that willing accepted it, they have a share in the responsibility. It is the elitist attitude that since I clicked install and accepted the upgrade it is now Apples sole responsibility to provide me what I want that is wrong. People had control in this. As for the download being cached in advance and taking space. I think that is all on Apple and entirely wrong but that argument was never part of any of THIS thread as an argument fact against Apple. This thread was solely about those that accepted and installed the upgrade and want to go back because they don't like the way the included apps were changed. Why everyone thinks that Apple has an obligation to them to have the apps remain exactly as they were I don't understand. They could spend the time downloading an app that does exactly what they require and move on instead they complain as they think Apple owes them something (it is not like they charged for this upgrade and forced it upon us). Funny how the argument is made that software could be downloaded and uninstalled if not liked, so why not download an app to get functionality desired, is that not just as easy?

People just try new software for fun. They always have, they always will. When a new version of an program you use regularly is released and advertised as being better, why shouldn't you just try it? In most cases it will be better and you'll have more fun using it. In some cases it will be worse or buggy, then you just revert to the previous version. This is how the tech industry progresses. If the whole computer industry did it like this, people would be afraid of progress. Keeping this behaviour up could have bad effects on the acceptances of iOS8 and iOS9 in the coming years. I for my part now distrust Apple's software updates. It would be funny if this move actually caused fragmentation in the long run, make people cling to old versions as long as they can.

I don't ask Apple to do anything for me. I just want them to stop doing something, to stop using their authentication servers to block iOS6 from being installed. I disagree with the way of thinking that downgrades are something mystical, require special procedures and impose a burden on Apple. It was very easy to install iOS6 a day or two after iOS7 launched, before Apple changed their servers' settings to deny it. It is still as easy now.

 

[Italianblend]

I'd like to call us back on track to stating opinions politely. I don't want this thread to be closed. It's an important discussion.

 

[squeakr]

People just try new software for fun. They always have, they always will. When a new version of an program you use regularly is released and advertised as being better, why shouldn't you just try it? In most cases it will be better and you'll have more fun using it. In some cases it will be worse or buggy, then you just revert to the previous version. This is how the tech industry progresses. If the whole computer industry did it like this, people would be afraid of progress. Keeping this behaviour up could have bad effects on the acceptances of iOS8 and iOS9 in the coming years. I for my part now distrust Apple's software updates. It would be funny if this move actually caused fragmentation in the long run, make people cling to old versions as long as they can.

I don't ask Apple to do anything for me. I just want them to stop doing something, to stop using their authentication servers to block iOS6 from being installed. I disagree with the way of thinking that downgrades are something mystical, require special procedures and impose a burden on Apple. It was very easy to install iOS6 a day or two after iOS7 launched, before Apple changed their servers' settings to deny it. It is still as easy now.

If it is so easy then why are you still on IOS7? Obviously you didn't roll back so you only know the steps involved and several would argue that putting your device Ito DFU mode and or selecting special options through iTunes was not easy. I bet several don't even know how to update through or use iTunes and performed OTA updates which don't allow downgrade options. If you don't backup through iTunes then when you performed the downgrade (after doing an update through OTA) you would lose all your data on the phone as an IOS7 backup can't be used to restore data to IOS6. Therefor it is harder to downgrade than suggested. For those without proper IOS6 backups they would lose everything and again be mad at Apple, so it would require a special procedure and downgrader created by Apple as I have stated all along.

 

[donnaw]

No they shouldn't, it causes fragmentation and leads to more work for developers who have to continue to support multiple versions of the OS instead of concentrating on updating and optimizing their app with the newest api's for latest software.

Overall it would lead to a much worse experience for all if they tried to appease the 5% of users who complain that iOS 7 is not for them.

But the fragmentation you are so frightened of already occurs, i.e. my iPad 1 runs just fine on an older OS (my 5year old granddaughter has it). It's running that older OS because Apple - at one point - determined it couldn't handle the new OS. That's the same fragmentation. And frankly it's not an issue. There are actually a lot of people in the world who don't think of their electronics as throw away devices every year or two.

As for the devs, 1) if they want to support an older OS that's their decision, 2) if they don't want to support it, that's their decision too. The device owner doesn't expect support for apps on older OSs.

Sheesh, all some folks are requesting is the ability to downgrade to the OS that performed well on their very expensive device. Exactly what harm would it actually do? None.

 

[Armen]

No, it is completely valid, as was my statement saying the same thing previously in the thread. Your statement was that Apple would not release a software update for a phone if it couldn't handle it. How your mothers phone runs iOS 6 has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Apple released iOS 4 for the iPhone 3G which obviously could not handle it due to how horribly it bogged the phone down. Your statement is the one that is invalid.

I guess "horribly slow" is your opinion/experience? The feedback in the thread below looks awfully familiar to the feedback on iOS 7. Again, I stand behind my statement...Apple won't release an OS to a device that can't handle it.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/945238/

 

[bflowers]

No, no, thrice no. Give up your quaint notion of ownership, as if your iPhone is a PC and you have IOS 6 on floppies ready to re-install. When you buy an iPhone you're not buying a machine with a shrink wrapped operating system, you're buying an ecosystem, it's bigger than you and it evolves and there's nothing you can or should do about that other than work with it, or bin your phone. It's that simple.

This is the dumbest argument I've read. People do actually BUY the hardware, and it doesn't have to be a phone subsidized by a carrier. They could buy an unlocked iPhone, an iPod Touch or iPad. They OWN those devices. It is unrealistic to claim they are buying the ecosystem and should just deal with it.

 

[Dented]

This is the dumbest argument I've read. People do actually BUY the hardware, and it doesn't have to be a phone subsidized by a carrier. They could buy an unlocked iPhone, an iPod Touch or iPad. They OWN those devices. It is unrealistic to claim they are buying the ecosystem and should just deal with it.

You own the device, and it was your choice what software to install on the device. You do NOT own the software or any perpetual license to use/revert to any particular version. Fact!

 

[~Ks383~]

Should Apple allow users to downgrade to ios 6?

I guess "horribly slow" is your opinion/experience? The feedback in the thread below looks awfully familiar to the feedback on iOS 7. Again, I stand behind my statement...Apple won't release an OS to a device that can't handle it.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/945238/

And again you would be wrong. Did you ever actually experience iOS 4 on the 3G? If not then you don't know what you're talking about. That being said, from what I have read, iOS 7 on the iPhone 4 is not as bad and the only real issues it has is some minor lag here and there. I don't have an iPhone 4 so I can't speak from experience.

 

[It Is James]

It'd be nice for us users, but Apple would never allow it. Not only would it make their software look really bad, but like any other OS upgrade, iOS 7 fixed several security issues that Apple does not want people exploiting. Not to mention the fact that an iOS 6.1.3 jailbreak should be out fairly soon... which would cost them to lose more money.

 

[Dented]

The fact is IOS 7 was designed to work on the iPhone 4 and upwards, that was the intention - they could easily have just cut it off and had a much easier time designing for the newer 4S while leaving the 4 on IOS 6, but that isn't what they've done.

If it doesn't work perfectly on the iPhone 4 right now (and reports on that are varied so clearly it is capable of running ok on a 4 and vice versa) then that is a bug - unintended behaviour - and will be fixed in due course like any other bug. That's what happened with IOS 4 on the 3G, which did improve with later versions.

Reverting to 6 is not the answer to anything - fixing the bugs is.

 

[Armen]

And again you would be wrong. Did you ever actually experience iOS 4 on the 3G? If not then you don't know what you're talking about. That being said, from what I have read, iOS 7 on the iPhone 4 is not as bad and the only real issues it has is some minor lag here and there. I don't have an iPhone 4 so I can't speak from experience.

Did you bother to read the thread I included?

People's feedback of iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G is very similiar to people's feedback on iOS 7 on an iphone 4. It ranges from "It works fine on mine" to "omg it's slow". So sorry, I am not going to agree with you that Apple released iOS on the 3G when it shouldn't have based on the fact that there are plenty of cases where it works properly.

 

[~Ks383~]

Did you bother to read the thread I included?

People's feedback of iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G is very similiar to people's feedback on iOS 7 on an iphone 4. It ranges from "It works fine on mine" to "omg it's slow". So sorry, I am not going to agree with you that Apple released iOS on the 3G when it shouldn't have based on the fact that there are plenty of cases where it works properly.

Did you actually experience iOS 4 on the 3G or are you just getting your information from some random thread? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter. Neither one of us is going to change the others mind.

 

[me7]

Reverting to 6 is not the answer to anything - fixing the bugs is.

It's not an answer, but it's a remedy until Apple fixes the bugs.
Out of all possible courses of action, forcing people to live with the buggy version until a fix is released is the worst one.

Also, it's not just the iPhone 4. I own an iPod touch that has the same hardware as an 4S (sans the phone capabilities). After applying the OTA, my iPod slowed down to a crawl. It would freeze for up to four seconds while I was browsing through lists of songs. Performing a restore via iTunes fixed it at first, but the device appears to be getting slower each day. We are talking 4S hardware here (800MHz A5 processor, 512MB RAM), something is seriously wrong with iOS7.

If it is so easy then why are you still on IOS7? Obviously you didn't roll back so you only know the steps involved and several would argue that putting your device Ito DFU mode and or selecting special options through iTunes was not easy. I bet several don't even know how to update through or use iTunes and performed OTA updates which don't allow downgrade options. If you don't backup through iTunes then when you performed the downgrade (after doing an update through OTA) you would lose all your data on the phone as an IOS7 backup can't be used to restore data to IOS6. Therefor it is harder to downgrade than suggested. For those without proper IOS6 backups they would lose everything and again be mad at Apple, so it would require a special procedure and downgrader created by Apple as I have stated all along.

I already performed all those steps. As I mentioned earlier in this post, iOS7 made me perform a factory reset anyway to get rid of the freezes. I have lost all of my data anyway, and since my iPod appears to get slower again I will probably have to restore it regularly (and loose all my data each time) to keep it at reasonable speed. As far as problems surrounding iOS7 are go, losing data is by far my least concern.

The steps to install an older version are ridiculously easy. I have put iOS devices in DFU mode dozens of times and the procedure to install an older version via iTunes is as simple as holding the SHIFT key while you clock restore.

 

[Altis]

....
I see very little compelling evidence that the OS is flawed but griping and complaining about an app being different (as are the majority of complaints regarding the OS just being different, as the GUI is not lagging or slower just has more animations involved so it takes longer to complete which is not the same as a slowing or lag). .........

Just as everyone who tends to say "the user has ownership in their actions and it is not all Apple" is considered going to the ends of the earth to support Apple and a heretic, why are those on the opposite side of the fence always thought to be the voice of reason since they are not sheep being led by Apple? You arguments about Apple being solely responsible are not true. I am not trying to pass the blame but share it, like it should rightly be shared as this is on both Apples and the consumers shoulders equally.

If you had to restore your phone now, or get a replacement under warranty, it would indeed be forced to use iOS 7.

Many of the complaints go beyond the design, and even function, to actual faults. I'm lucky I only have a few, music app always lags badly until it crashes if I use it more than 30 minutes, and battery indicator stops responding and when it comes to, drops by a huge amount at once or the phone just shuts off at 6-20%. Nothing I can do but live with a flawed device now, despite such an easy solution.

Your comment on the opposite side of the fence being correct because of not being apple sheep, in my respectful opinion, isn't how it is. Sheep or otherwise, having a list of downsides and only a small, defenceless, few reasons in favor of forcing the update, is the issue.

There are yet to be any really solid arguments or pros to not being able to revert back for the first little bit. It's not forever, just until they get the bugs sorted out, if nothing else.

It's so easy to tell people to suck it up, deal with it, it's just a phone, don't be afraid of change, etc etc... But that's no consolation for those who genuinely do have an issue with it. Design and functional issues aside, there are real issues.

Many of these issues could have been resolved when they were reported many betas ago. It hurts nobody if people can revert back until the bugs are ironed out.

 

[irnchriz]

3 days is a horribly short grace period. It takes much longer than that for our dept to vet a new IOS release. Heck the ticket requesting the vetting process will eat up half of that.

FWIW I like IOS 7 in general. But it is way too buggy even on a brand new 5S.

Buggy how exactly? Been using it solidly since release and had zero issues. Maybe I'm a light user:

3 Exchange accounts
1 iCloud account
iTunes Match
taken a good few hundred photos
videos
play podcasts nightly
lots of calls
played IB3 a fair bit, along with plenty of other apps too numerous to mention
Used Bria for VoIP calls daily (remote work extension)

bulletproof.

 

[edhchoe]

imessages are not getting through. Buggy.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

But the fragmentation you are so frightened of already occurs, i.e. my iPad 1 runs just fine on an older OS (my 5year old granddaughter has it). It's running that older OS because Apple - at one point - determined it couldn't handle the new OS. That's the same fragmentation. And frankly it's not an issue. There are actually a lot of people in the world who don't think of their electronics as throw away devices every year or two.

As for the devs, 1) if they want to support an older OS that's their decision, 2) if they don't want to support it, that's their decision too. The device owner doesn't expect support for apps on older OSs.

Sheesh, all some folks are requesting is the ability to downgrade to the OS that performed well on their very expensive device. Exactly what harm would it actually do? None.

you may not expect support on an older device. I can guarantee you that the majority of people out there are not "tech savvy" and they will expect support if they are allowed to chose which OS version they want to download. As a dev I would be forced to either maintain two versions of an app, or decide if I want to support iOS 6 users or iOS 7 users instead of designing for one version of the OS.

Old hardware that is not able to update to the latest OS is not going to cause the same fragmentation issues as if you plug your phone in and it asks would you like to run iOS 6 or iOS 7 on this device?? Allowing customers a choice will result in more fragmentation, and force devs to support two different apps essentially for two different versions of iOS.

There is a reason that a lot of devs like how iOS is not fragmented, and the fact that weeks after its release, ~75% of users are already on iOS 7. That means I'm able to update my app to the latest API's without having to worry about supporting a legacy app for users on iOS 6 for a long time like I would have to if apple were to allow users to chose to download iOS 6.

That's my opinion and I feel that allowing people to make this choice would hurt the community as a whole and stunt innovation.

Thank you. I have been saying all of this as well but am being told essentially the same thing, that I am wasting their time, and that my logic and arguments are not valid and flawed. I also agree that If only one device really allows it how can it not be the exception?? The device in question isn't even a phone but the iPod. I just don't see how if one is so happy and content with their device as it currently is how they felt the need that it was imperative to upgrade, knowing that in the past everything was always set to not allow downgrading. If they were so savvy and worried about things, why didn't they jailbreak and save their ash blobs in tiny umbrella? I have also pointed out how they are criticizing IOS7 but their complaints are mainly about two system apps that could easily be replaced with an third party app that would do what they want (as their complaints are mainly about the change in the way they operate and not about them operating incorrectly, yet the claim is that everything is broken and flawed. No just not the way they would like them to be which is not broken not flawed just different. They also brought up that the motto was think differently, so I suggest they do just that).

Sorry, now I am wasting your time also.

Trust me I have been saying the same things.

It amazes me how many people will complain that maps.app doesn't work. How they don't like the new calendar app, etc.

There is an app store with many different apps and possible replacements on it if you don't like one of apples stock applications. I don't understand why people would rather complain about an app on a forum than download a different calendar, or google maps and use their phone happily. People are so helpless these days, I often wonder how most of the people here are able to go to the bathroom on their own.

These people have been seeing iOS 7 "complaints" for months, yet they still decide to download it and then complain too. Amazing! Especially when like you said, most of their problems can be solved with a simple download off the app store, but people don't like solutions to their problems, they would rather just continue to bitch and have a pity party for themselves because of how bad their life is now that they can't use the calendar app.

I already performed all those steps. As I mentioned earlier in this post, iOS7 made me perform a factory reset anyway to get rid of the freezes. I have lost all of my data anyway, and since my iPod appears to get slower again I will probably have to restore it regularly (and loose all my data each time) to keep it at reasonable speed. As far as problems surrounding iOS7 are go, losing data is by far my least concern.

why didn't you back your data up before upgrading? THis is your own fault, don't act like the upgrade forced you to lose your data because apple provides many very easy ways to back that data up before a restore. They even ask you on iTUnes if you would like to backup before updating.

 

[irnchriz]

I think Apple should provide an option for users to go back to iOS 6 under the following conditions:

1. There is no guarantee that applications will work. Developers will move to iOS7 and do not have to support iOS 6. (this happened to my Niece who got an old iPhone 3G and was upset as Facebook was not available on her device)

2. Apple do not support iOS 6 on iOS 7 capable devices.

3. No security updates or time will be spent in maintaining iOS 6 for iOS 7 capable devices. (why waste resources?)

Let them go to iOS 6, just as long as they know that their is no guarantee of support from Apple or Devs.

 

[edhchoe]

If I had the choice I would go back to iOS 5. Why? Just to have that YouTube app. Yes. Just for that one app I would give up all other things.
Choices are important. Even if that means I would be stuck in the older version for all other apps, I would choose to stay in iOS 5 UNTIL I see a better reason to move on.

 

[Dented]

It's not an answer, but it's a remedy until Apple fixes the bugs.
Out of all possible courses of action, forcing people to live with the buggy version until a fix is released is the worst one.

Also, it's not just the iPhone 4. I own an iPod touch that has the same hardware as an 4S (sans the phone capabilities). After applying the OTA, my iPod slowed down to a crawl. It would freeze for up to four seconds while I was browsing through lists of songs. Performing a restore via iTunes fixed it at first, but the device appears to be getting slower each day. We are talking 4S hardware here (800MHz A5 processor, 512MB RAM), something is seriously wrong with iOS7.

And yet the forums are full of people whose 4S's are working fine, whether they like the new IOS design or not. Anecdotally my wife's 4S is working perfectly - in fact the update has actually cured an annoying freezing issue she was having in IOS 6 messages.

You won't want to hear this, but it's not uncommon for software updates to reveal pre existing hardware problems. I had a 3GS that was working absolutely fine until a minor point update, when suddenly it started rebooting during calls. I assumed it was a bug in the software until I finally had enough and complained to apple, they diagnosed it as a hardware fault and sure enough the replacement phone, running the exact same version and restored from the same backup was perfect and stayed that way. So actually there may be nothing "seriously wrong" with IOS 7 sand simply something seriously wrong with your iPod.

 

[donnaw]

you may not expect support on an older device. I can guarantee you that the majority of people out there are not "tech savvy" and they will expect support if they are allowed to chose which OS version they want to download. As a dev I would be forced to either maintain two versions of an app, or decide if I want to support iOS 6 users or iOS 7 users instead of designing for one version of the OS.

Old hardware that is not able to update to the latest OS is not going to cause the same fragmentation issues as if you plug your phone in and it asks would you like to run iOS 6 or iOS 7 on this device?? Allowing customers a choice will result in more fragmentation, and force devs to support two different apps essentially for two different versions of iOS.

There is a reason that a lot of devs like how iOS is not fragmented, and the fact that weeks after its release, ~75% of users are already on iOS 7. That means I'm able to update my app to the latest API's without having to worry about supporting a legacy app for users on iOS 6 for a long time like I would have to if apple were to allow users to chose to download iOS 6.

That's my opinion and I feel that allowing people to make this choice would hurt the community as a whole and stunt innovation.

Unless you just started developing you are already in that position because there are devices in use that cannot run iOS 6 and now iOS 7. And as time goes on it will only get worse because a lot of people actually keep their devices longer than 3 years or so. It simply shouldn't affect your decision, either you support older OSs or not. Fragmentation is occurring naturally so using the 'its harder for the devs' excuse has no legs to stand on.

As for stunting innovation, support for legacy OSs and apps has been going on for years. I don't think anything has been stunted.

 

[RAPTORSKI]

I have an iPad 2, yes iOS 7 doesn't run amazing on it and it does lack some of the new features but it is still absolutely superb compared to iOS 6. iTunes Radio, the new look and feel of the OS, control center, new camera interface, are features I now just cannot do without and I would never go back to iOS 6 as it seems ancient now.

 

[Armen]

Did you actually experience iOS 4 on the 3G or are you just getting your information from some random thread? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter. Neither one of us is going to change the others mind.

Fair enough