Should i switch to Apple?

[DanielDD]

There is going to be a bias towards bad reviews is forums like this because the millions of people that are happy with it won't even bother discuss why their new toy is great. Whereas people who dislike it will likely search for forums like this and actively engage in topics. This is a trend in every product you buy.

If I were you I would start by buying a MacBook Pro 13 inch. If you do not like the idea of the touch bar, go with the non-touch bar version. This is basically a super charged MacBook Air with a retina display. Then I would wait for the next event and perhaps buy a new iPad and an Apple TV.
Laptop + Phone + Tablet + TV is the basic Apple package. Once you have these four product you can fully experience the joy of Apple's ecosystem.

 

[maflynn]

But i loathe the feeling of beeing ripped off or if a company doesnt value me as a customer

I don't blame you, I would not want to buy any products if a company does that.

Apple is kinda giving off that vibe currently

I will say Apple's customer support is best in the industry, so from that perspective you have nothing to worry about.

From the perspective that Apple is more focused on selling computers to the general consumer, I'd say that outlook is closer to the truth imo. I look at the MacPro and how that machine is billed for the "professional" yet it hasn't been updated in so many years its embarrassing (especially since they still charge the same amount now as they first did).

Whether the MBP is a "pro" machine depends on your profession

Apple does have a history of ignoring or not really spending much energy on those creative professional types. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't buy the laptop, only you can decide, but based on their past behavior I do question apple's commitment to that market segment.

Similar Windows Notebook cost almost the same

I have to disagree, while yes some models certainly can cost as much (or more) then a MacBook Pro, I've been searching for a 15" laptop and one machine on my short list is a Dell XPS. I can get their top of the line model for 1,650, where are as the MBP 2,600. Unlike the MBP, I can upgrade the ram and storage after purchase.

The Dell is not perfect, and I'm not trying to make it out that it is, but then the MBP is not perfect, but rather point out that there are quality machines out there for less then what Apple is charging.

 

[OneSon]

I switched 5 years ago and never looked back. I'd owned 4 or 5 Windows laptop and experienced the usual BS and viruses, crashes, slowing down, and having to tinker with the drivers all the time. Switched to a Macbook Air and the past 5 years have been problem free.

From what I hear Windows laptops have come along way in terms of catching up however they have also gone up in price. I am not going to switch back to Windows no matter how many good reviews of the Dell XPS 13 I read. My laptop will be a Macbook Pro and I have an iMac in my home office.

Phone wise I don't think there's much difference between android and ios and personally I prefer android.

Tablet wise I think the iPad is king.

 

[Speechless]

I was hesitant about buying the new tbMBP and I'm telling you, it is worth it. Literally no issues, powerful, useful, and long lasting. This site is dramatic as hell - I'm sorry. I'm actually mad I held off this long to get it.

 

[4769372]

Thank you very much for all the helpful answears. I never questioned the MacBook Pro. The only thing that disturbs me in that area: it only has 16GB RAM...i hope with Kaby-Lake 32GB will be possible. I only questioned the iMac and Mac Pro. And from my understanding the Mac Pro's future is uncertain but the iMac should get an update pretty soon. I will wait for the update and decide then. Thank you very much.

 

[maflynn]

i hope with Kaby-Lake 32GB will be possible

Yes, I think Phil Schiller of Apple basically implied we'll see MBPs capable of > 16GB, however, I don't expect to see Kaby Lake MBPs until the fall.

but the iMac should get an update pretty soon.

I think many folks in the iMac share that sentiment, we should hopefully see a refresh of the iMac in the next month or two.

 

[marc55]

Of course you should!

Apple makes fantastic products, and their customer support is second to none!
m

 

[4769372]

Thank you. So i can switch to Apple without concerns. I just hope they keep the segments updated. I usually buy a whole new set of Computers every 4 years.

I have just one further quetsion. Does Office (Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook etc.) work just as good as on a Windows Notebook? I love to work with shortcuts and i have no issue learning the new ones for the Apple Version, but i need the full-set of options just like on Windows.

 

[Fishrrman]

If you don't care for the 2016 MacBook Pro's, you can still get the 2015 models "new".

They're still part of the active product lineup. To see them, you must go to the MacBook Pro page (at the Apple online store), and click "buy". Then, scroll to the bottom to see them.

They still have traditional USB ports that will work with all the stuff you have now.

You may be able to find a good price, if you can get a student discount.

 

[thesaint024]

Thank you. So i can switch to Apple without concerns. I just hope they keep the segments updated. I usually buy a whole new set of Computers every 4 years.

I have just one further quetsion. Does Office (Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook etc.) work just as good as on a Windows Notebook? I love to work with shortcuts and i have no issue learning the new ones for the Apple Version, but i need the full-set of options just like on Windows.

MS Office has officially come all the way to Macs. I held out for the longest time because of my Office needs and Office for Mac frankly sucked. I'm a pretty heavy Excel user and there actually is a keyboard shortcut for everything the PC has now. It can just be difficult to find out what they are. Having used PC shortcuts for many years, I am slowly getting used to the Mac shortcuts. Frustrating as hell in the first month or two, then inconvenient, now finally almost a non-issue. The 2 platform versions even look identical finally.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

As someone who used PC for 15 years (both desktop and laptop) and used Apple laptops for the past 5 years, I can say I don't regret my decision at all. Windows based PCs have always felt very cold and off putting to me, both the design and OS just never feeling inspiring to use. Sounds silly but after using Apple and OSX it really has changed my perspective on computers. The design is inviting and enjoyable, it's the only laptop keyboard i've ever liked and felt comfortable with, the screens are amazing, and if you get into the entire experience (using Apple software with Apple hardware) it kicks Windows **** in the dirt. I still have a desktop PC with Windows for gaming/streaming, but I even find i'm using that less and less these days. I can easily play most games on my Mac tho I don't enjoy it cuz the fans turn up a bit. That's probably just uncomfortable to hear since they're usually dead silent when using my laptop

I use a MacBook Pro for photography editing and video as well, some videos with heavy layering and 10-25 min videos at times. There's also directors that have used it to cut big movies (Focus for example) and said they loved working with the MacBook line for that work. People say they're ignoring the pro user but idk, if you can easily cut blockbuster movies on these laptops I don't see the problem. You have to be a pretty high up pro user to have issues with these laptops?

And yes they're expensive, but if you look at comparable Windows products they're about the same price or even cheaper at times, and that's without all the Apple R&D and optimization for software/etc. So I never really saw a problem with the pricing. Especially since the resale value is so nice on Apple products, I can resell in a year or two and only pay $500-1000 for a brand new MacBook Pro which is a perk missed by some as well.

 

[ZapNZs]

How is it less certain than that of other Apple products? Apple continues to manufacture and sell them, and haven't given any indication they don't intend to continue to do that.

I consider it uncertain because:

• Apple has avoided discussing the Mac Pro (while explicitly talking about the MacBook Pro, iMac, iPad Pro, & the professional/creative market, on more than one occasion)
• Apple has not updated a thing on it now going on four years, while other workstations have gone through 3 or more update cycles, and many now offer twice the hardware for half the price - and this long delay comes from a company that usually tends to adopt new tech very early, and on a platform that has a very different upgrade history compared to the past 4 years
• When Apple has phased out other products, I've observed that it being sold for an extended period and not upgraded or mentioned hasn't been that unusual (currently, the MBA-13 is going through that end cycle)
• The traits that Users may want in a workstation may be different from the traits that Apple may be favoring to implement across their designs
• It may well likely be considered a fringe product as it is presumably not nearly as profitable as other designs (so this could account for the long delay in upgrading it, or for an eventual discontinuation/merger -- but ultimately, a less profitable product can equate to a less certain future and certainly equates to lower prioritization)

I hope they do upgrade it (as they clearly have the capacity to make a cutting-edge workstation capable of a wide range of usage,) but I think that future is uncertain and probably more uncertain than staples like the MacBook, MacBook Pro, or iMac (as the MacBook and MacBook Pro both had recent updates and have confirmed future updates, and the iMac has been formally discussed by and committed to by Mr. Cook.)

 

[Sanpete]

I look at the MacPro and how that machine is billed for the "professional" yet it hasn't been updated in so many years its embarrassing (especially since they still charge the same amount now as they first did).

How is it embarrassing? Professionals care about performance. Others may care more about superficial things like specs and recency. Maybe you can answer the question I asked above and have asked repeatedly of critics of the Mac Pro, what professional task is the Mac Pro unable to efficiently accomplish?

Apple does have a history of ignoring or not really spending much energy on those creative professional types.

What are you talking about, specifically?

i hope with Kaby-Lake 32GB will be possible.

Kaby Lake doesn't affect how much RAM is possible. It's the same as Skylake, to get to 32 you have to use desktop RAM, which eats into battery life. If Apple offers 32, it will be despite Kaby Lake, not because of it.

I consider it uncertain because:

• Apple has avoided discussing the Mac Pro (while explicitly talking about the MacBook Pro, iMac, iPad Pro, & the professional/creative market, on more than one occasion)
• Apple has not updated a thing on it now going on four years, while other workstations have gone through 3 or more update cycles, and many now offer twice the hardware for half the price - and this long delay comes from a company that usually tends to adopt new tech very early, and on a platform that has a very different upgrade history compared to the past 4 years
• When Apple has phased out other products, I've observed that it being sold for an extended period and not upgraded or mentioned hasn't been that unusual (currently, the MBA-13 is going through that end cycle)
• The traits that Users may want in a workstation may be different from the traits that Apple may be favoring to implement across their designs
• It may well likely be considered a fringe product as it is presumably not nearly as profitable as other designs (so this could account for the long delay in upgrading it, or for an eventual discontinuation/merger -- but ultimately, a less profitable product can equate to a less certain future and certainly equates to lower prioritization)

I hope they do upgrade it (as they clearly have the capacity to make a cutting-edge workstation capable of a wide range of usage,) but I think that future is uncertain and probably more uncertain than staples like the MacBook, MacBook Pro, or iMac (as the MacBook and MacBook Pro both had recent updates and have confirmed future updates, and the iMac has been formally discussed by and committed to by Mr. Cook.)

Schiller says Apple is as committed to desktop Macs as ever. I don't know what you mean about avoiding discussion of the Mac Pro while talking about the others. Apple talks about them when they come out, and generally not at other times.

My guess is that it hasn't been updated because it still does what it was designed to do, and there isn't a lot to upgrade.

 

[szilske]

Does Office (Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook etc.) work just as good as on a Windows Notebook?

For Outlook clearly not. It is real PITA, painfully slow and lacking features like "propose new time". It is also unable to open .msg files, which seems to be the default format when someone exports a mail from Outlook on Windows.

Unfortunately, at the moment Apple's Mail.app is no alternative, as it has severe issues with S/MIME certificates. In general, I would always prefer Apple's Mail and Calendar over Outlook.

For the other Office Apps, I think they are at least feature complete and usable. Except from Skype for Business. It is kind of embarrassing that MS is not able to release a full-features client for Mac. If you rely on that, there is no other way than using Windows...

 

[macjunk(ie)]

What ind of a Pro are you? Software/Audio/Video work ?
I can speak for the software pros cause I am one. The OS is great but many developers are pissed at the new machines.

Read this article to find out how the new MBP is letting pros down

More recently, I read that Joel Spolsky switched to a Dell XPS 13.

If I were to start again, I would not want to get into the Apple ecosystem.
[doublepost=1489573269][/doublepost]

How is it embarrassing? Professionals care about performance. Others may care more about superficial things like specs and recency. Maybe you can answer the question I asked above and have asked repeatedly of critics of the Mac Pro, what professional task is the Mac Pro unable to efficiently accomplish?

If you just search a little in Youtube, you will find that there are various desktops that beat the pants off the MacPro when it comes to rendering. The efficiencies in the Mac OSX can no longer compensate for the laggard hardware in the MacPro.

 

[maflynn]

I have just one further quetsion. Does Office (Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook etc.) work just as good as on a Windows Notebook

No, I think windows still has a few more features, but even above that, I find it a better on Windows. I'm not sure but its just more stable it seems. I find it faster, easier to use and for what ever reason, visually seems better, i.e., text/numbers are larger. I frequently have to increase the zoom on my spreadsheets on the Mac that I don't have too when I use them on the PC. Just an oddity, I noticed

I like MacOffice so don't get me wrong, and with MS rolling out Office 365, it really did bring Mac version of office up to parity with its windows counterpart.

 

[Queen6]

What ind of a Pro are you? Software/Audio/Video work ?
I can speak for the software pros cause I am one. The OS is great but many developers are pissed at the new machines.

Read this article to find out how the new MBP is letting pros down

More recently, I read that Joel Spolsky switched to a Dell XPS 13.

If I were to start again, I would not want to get into the Apple ecosystem.

The article and contributors are telling indeed. Personally I know no one who is planning on moving to the 2016 MBP for their professional needs, encompassing; engineering, software development, designers. For my needs in engineering I have now moved to a Surface Book for the 13" class, 15" I am looking at the options, equally unlikely to be Apple for various reasons. Sometime ago I decided I didn't want "all my eggs in one basket" in some respects this has paid dividends with a seamless transition to Windows 10.

No idea where Apple is going MBP's now don't serve many, yet are too highly priced for the average consumer. To me Apple is not looking to grow sales of the Mac, rather extract ever more margin from it's customers...

Q-6

 

[barkomatic]

Thank you. So i can switch to Apple without concerns. I just hope they keep the segments updated. I usually buy a whole new set of Computers every 4 years.

I have just one further quetsion. Does Office (Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook etc.) work just as good as on a Windows Notebook? I love to work with shortcuts and i have no issue learning the new ones for the Apple Version, but i need the full-set of options just like on Windows.

I came to this thread late, but I noticed in your early conversation that you came upon a few very passionate but somewhat irrational Apple supporters. The reviews of the Macbook Pro--Youtube is filled with them--are that it is mediocre at best. It's in the middle of a cycle and I wouldn't buy one if you have a choice as they are overpriced for what you get. At least it was updated late last year though.

The Mac Pro is an absolute no go. Even if this computer *currently* serves one's "professional needs" its utter lunacy to pay full price in 2017 for a computer last updated in 2013. Seriously, don't even think about buying one.

 

[MrX8503]

What ind of a Pro are you? Software/Audio/Video work ?
I can speak for the software pros cause I am one. The OS is great but many developers are pissed at the new machines.

Read this article to find out how the new MBP is letting pros down

More recently, I read that Joel Spolsky switched to a Dell XPS 13.

If I were to start again, I would not want to get into the Apple ecosystem.
[doublepost=1489573269][/doublepost]
If you just search a little in Youtube, you will find that there are various desktops that beat the pants off the MacPro when it comes to rendering. The efficiencies in the Mac OSX can no longer compensate for the laggard hardware in the MacPro.

Not many laptops have 32GB of RAM. Yes it would be nice to have, but many competitors don't offer it.

I don't understand why a software developer needs a powerful gaming GPU, when the Radeon in the MBP was specifically chosen for 5K support and OpenCL. You know, things pros need.

I'm a developer and I'm very happy with my MBP. Got an LG 5K to go with it and developing on it is a dream.

 

[jerryk]

Not many laptops have 32GB of RAM. Yes it would be nice to have, but many competitors don't offer it.

I don't understand why a software developer needs a powerful gaming GPU, when the Radeon in the MBP was specifically chosen for 5K support and OpenCL. You know, things pros need.

I'm a developer and I'm very happy with my MBP. Got an LG 5K to go with it and developing on it is a dream.

Depends on what sort of software you develop. I do Machine Learning and AI. OpenCL is not supported by many software tools. CUDA is the standard, and that means NVIDIA. And yes, 32GB would be great.

 

[4769372]

@Sanpete

You want to know what i as a professional care for? Money. That is it. The difference between a Professional and Wannabe-Professional is quite simple. The later spends money on stuff he doesn't need or overpays on stuff he needs. I don't want to overpay and i will not overpay. It is as simple as that.

"How is it embarrassing? Professionals care about performance. Others may care more about superficial things like specs and recency. Maybe you can answer the question I asked above and have asked repeatedly of critics of the Mac Pro, what professional task is the Mac Pro unable to efficiently accomplish?"

There is nothing superficial about specs and recency. In fact a professional who doesn't care about performance won't need a Mac Pro. The customers of the Mac Pro are the ones who care specs. You apply the arguments that are reasonable for th average user on professional users. Yes the Mac Pro surely will do every Job most professionals need to do. But here is the catch. Why would i pay double the Price! And yes it is double the Price for a Mac Pro. There is absolutly no justification for that. Hell even the superior Support won't make up for it. I would rather buy a better performing machine two times or three times. And that's that. Wasting money doesn't make you a professional. Professionals care about money the most.

You see the MacBook Pro comes at a price that is reasonable. Similar products cost the same or are slighlty cheaper. But the Apple design and support make up for it. But not for the iMac and also not for the Mac Pro. It is as simple as that. I have no idea why you are trying to defend a product that clearly has outlived its product-life-cyle. If you are a customer and are defending apple's current ripp-off on the Mac Pro...well then any further discussion is meaningless.

But since you so care so much about what i do. My job changes every few months. I am an engineer and actually i don't have one area. Sometimes i only work with Excel, Powerpoint and Outlook. But at times i build simulations with AnyLogic or PlantSim. At other times i run Forming-Simulations etc. The list is long and the requirements differ greatly. But i need and want a Desktop-PC that is reasonable priced and meets my Standards.

I will summarize now:

I am content with the MacBook Pro currently but would love to see 32GB.
I am not content with the Mac Pro and won't buy it.
I am waiting for an iMac update and will see if it reasonably priced.

I have made up my mind. Thanks by the way.

 

[Sanpete]

Read this article to find out how the new MBP is letting pros down

Most of that article is a collection of opinion that the author has gathered because it agrees with him, very thin on facts, and very selective. The worst way to form an accurate view.

If you just search a little in Youtube, you will find that there are various desktops that beat the pants off the MacPro when it comes to rendering. The efficiencies in the Mac OSX can no longer compensate for the laggard hardware in the MacPro.

Please provide an example, preferably one that compares a Mac Pro rendering in FCPX, and shows it to be unacceptably slow. It's always been slower in programs optimized for other platforms. The reason there's a Mac Pro at all is to work in programs optimized for Macs.

Personally I know no one who is planning on moving to the 2016 MBP for their professional needs, encompassing; engineering, software development, designers

And? You don't have to look far to find people who are adopting it for professional purposes. Start in this discussion forum.

No ideal where Apple is going MBP's now don't serve many, yet are too highly priced for the average consumer. To me Apple is not looking to grow sales of the Mac, rather extract ever more margin from it's customers...

Sales reports don't support this, nor does the pricing.

I came to this thread late, but I noticed in your early conversation that you came upon a few very passionate but somewhat irrational Apple supporters. The reviews of the Macbook Pro--Youtube is filled with them--are that it is mediocre at best.

Speaking of irrational, please do more than wave your hands with vague claims. What specifically is irrational in what was said earlier, and what specifically shows the new MBP to be mediocre. In fact, the reviews taken as a whole don't support your claim at all.

Even if this computer *currently* serves one's "professional needs" its utter lunacy to pay full price in 2017 for a computer last updated in 2013.

Thank you for illustrating my point about the difference between professionals and some others who care more about recency than performance.

 

[barkomatic]

Speaking of irrational, please do more than wave your hands with vague claims. What specifically is irrational in what was said earlier, and what specifically shows the new MBP to be mediocre. In fact, the reviews taken as a whole don't support your claim at all.

Go to Google and type in "2016 Macbook Pro Reviews". You'll see a range of opinions, but the most recent reviews lean toward negative. One certainly doesn't have to rely upon me waving my hands, anyone can go see for themselves. Examples have been posted many times on these forums with several threads dedicated to the topic. However, since I suspect your passion has overwhelmed your sense of reason I don't expect to convince you.

Thank you for illustrating my point about the difference between professionals and some others who care more about recency than performance.

The current Mac Pro serves a professional's needs in the same way that any nearly 4 year old computer would serve their needs -- knowing they will likely need to replace it in a year or two. It's much too far along in its lifecycle to pay full price for outdated hardware. Again, I realize that you believe that an ancient Apple computer is the very bestest out there and worth thousands of dollars over a brand new updated computer from a competitor -- so this post is really for others reading this thread.

 

[T909]

Just buy a Windows PC or build one. Windows 10 is great.

 

[Sanpete]

@Sanpete

You want to know what i as a professional care for? Money. That is it. The difference between a Professional and Wannabe-Professional is quite simple. The later spends money on stuff he doesn't need or overpays on stuff he needs. I don't want to overpay and i will not overpay. It is as simple as that.

"How is it embarrassing? Professionals care about performance. Others may care more about superficial things like specs and recency. Maybe you can answer the question I asked above and have asked repeatedly of critics of the Mac Pro, what professional task is the Mac Pro unable to efficiently accomplish?"

There is nothing superficial about specs and recency. In fact a professional who doesn't care about performance won't need a Mac Pro. The customers of the Mac Pro are the ones who care specs. You apply the arguments that are reasonable for th average user on professional users. Yes the Mac Pro surely will do every Job most professionals need to do. But here is the catch. Why would i pay double the Price! And yes it is double the Price for a Mac Pro. There is absolutly no justification for that. Hell even the superior Support won't make up for it. I would rather buy a better performing machine two times or three times. And that's that. Wasting money doesn't make you a professional. Professionals care about money the most.

You see the MacBook Pro comes at a price that is reasonable. Similar products cost the same or are slighlty cheaper. But the Apple design and support make up for it. But not for the iMac and also not for the Mac Pro. It is as simple as that. I have no idea why you are trying to defend a product that clearly has outlived its product-life-cyle. If you are a customer and are defending apple's current ripp-off on the Mac Pro...well then any further discussion is meaningless.

But since you so care so much about what i do. My job changes every few months. I am an engineer and actually i don't have one area. Sometimes i only work with Excel, Powerpoint and Outlook. But at times i build simulations with AnyLogic or PlantSim. At other times i run Forming-Simulations etc. The list is long and the requirements differ greatly. But i need and want a Desktop-PC that is reasonable priced and meets my Standards.

I will summarize now:

I am content with the MacBook Pro currently but would love to see 32GB.
I am not content with the Mac Pro and won't buy it.
I am waiting for an iMac update and will see if it reasonably priced.

I have made up my mind. Thanks by the way.

You're welcome. You've read a lot into what I said that isn't there, but you did finally manage to address some of what I did say.

The Mac Pro has always been and likely always will be more expensive for its specs than the Windows alternatives. The reasons people have been willing to pay more is to run software optimized for the Mac, either to get specific computing results or to remain within the Apple system for broader reasons such as support and ease of connecting with other machines.

If you're looking for the best bargain for the basic specs, you shouldn't be looking at Macs of any kind, including the the MBP. As @maflynn points out, you can match or beat the primary specs for half the price in a Windows machine. It's only when you consider build quality, support, OS, less primary specs like screen quality, and so on that the Macs become competitive. (I disagree about your one-track view of what pros care about most, but it doesn't matter for now, as it appears to represent what you care about at least.)