Should i switch to Apple?

[4769372]

No worries. I didn't report you to anyone. You aren't worth it. I just asked the admins to delete my accont since i don't want to be associated with passive-aggressive ppl like you.

 

[Appleaker]

Well i will be very blunt now. There has been tons of advances in computer-technology. If you aren't aware of them it is because you don't follow this topic very much. The GPU-Power has risen by at least 100% since 2013. The CPU's are more efficient and drain less energy. So yeah there is huge improvement. The Ryzen does the job of an i7 for half the price. The list is long. The iMac screen is good, but there are Screens that are just as beautifull for half the price, period. I don't mind paying Apple-Prices. I mind paying those prices, when they are absolutly not justified!

If they upgrade the iMac i wouldn't even think twice about switching to Apple

The iMac is good value and Apple are often very good in the CPU department. In terms of the iMac, the GPU is lagging behind because they switched to AMD. At the end of the day, this is primarily down to cost as they get a better deal from AMD. If they went with Nvidia, they would have desktop level graphics in the iMac and like you, I wouldn't think twice if that was the case. Although this is better as the multiple Thunderbolt 3 ports on the new iMac allow for faster external PCIe enclosures. Although the Nvidia drivers don't exist today for the 1000-series, new job listings suggest Apple could make the switch in the future and therefore this could help for eGPU support. Hopefully that shouldn't be an issue and the job listings result in Nvidia graphics in the iMac.
[doublepost=1489787483][/doublepost]

I really don't care about Apple's POV. I'm saying there actually IS a reason or two for this that goes beyond the lazy "mighty dollar" argument. You continue to state there is "no argument for leaving out SD-Cards!" But somehow the points I made are invalid? My "arguments have no basis". As I said, the guy that plugs in his SD card 5 times a day is probably less common than a guy like me.

To summarize again: SD slot does take up space, it is not just that null space you see in the hole. It does cost and it does weigh. Not sure if you've seen the inside of these things, but every decision on space and weight is precious. I would prefer a usb-a port to a SD slot that most of us don't use. Last point, the SD slot IS obsolete for pro photogs. It's slower than what's available for file transfer. Not saying pros don't use it, but it is already beyond it's peak. Usb-a is NOT. There's a better argument to keep that in the MBP than an obsolete SD card slot.

This MBP doesn't work for you. Get something else. Doesn't work for you does not equal bad design decisions. IDGAF what you buy, but don't call out actual reasons I gave as invalid because they don't affect you. Please continue to enjoy your Windows world and thanks for considering the Mac. Buh bye.

Yeah I agree that a USB-A port would be more useful although in terms of what they have the vertical space (they do have this space for USB-A, but I mean the flat not tapered space) for, an SD card would be plausible to have in this design. It's also cool as it allows for storage expansion for those that may not use it for regular file transfers.

 

[Sanpete]

There is enough weight reduction measurements Apple could use:

Using a different kind of aluminium alloy would reduce the weight by so much more than reducing a port. But you see that would actually cost something and it would reduce the margin of Apple or they would have to upgrade the price even further.

They could simply switch from Aluminium to Carbon-fiber-alloy which is also lighter and allows better wifi and will have the same feel but this would also mean a substaintal up-price. So i am sorry to tell you. That the argument of weight is really not the issue and space also isn't one.

What happened to your argument that this weightless, sizeless device was also without cost?

The fact that you started becoming personal shows me only that you got pushed into a corner by arguments and now you resort to a personal attack by using frases like IDGAF and beeing passive aggressive in your last sentence.

More irony.

 

[thesaint024]

No worries. I didn't report you to anyone. You aren't worth it. I just asked the admins to delete my accont since i don't want to be associated with passive-aggressive ppl like you.

Oh I'm worth it! Unfortunately, I didn't actually do or say anything you claim, so no worries. Btw, my posts have lots of sarcasm, not passive-aggression. Please look them up and accuse me of the proper thing. Then you can worry about the horror of being "associated with people like me".
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Yeah I agree that a USB-A port would be more useful although in terms of what they have the vertical space (they do have this space for USB-A, but I mean the flat not tapered space) for, an SD card would be plausible to have in this design. It's also cool as it allows for storage expansion for those that may not use it for regular file transfers.

I agree they have their uses. I wouldn't be upset if they included either, but they likely had to draw a line somewhere. I would prefer usb-a over the headphone jack for example, or even over one of the usb-c's. I UNDERSTAND why they went the way they did though. There is a rational argument as to why they did. People may not agree with it 100%, but it doesn't make their decision "wrong". I do wish I had a usb-a port, but it hasn't affected me in any way. Just maybe their decision had good logic.

 

[4769372]

@thesaind024
I don't want to be associated with you. And you aren't worth it. I decide if you worth my time or not. You could be Tim Cook for all i care and you still wouldn't be worth it. I don't value ppl by their money or power or any other superficial virtue. I value decency and intelligence above all materialistic values. And you clearly don't meet my standards. And you obviously dont know the difference between beeing passive aggressiv and sarcasm. But nowadays everyone is sarcastics while in reality beeing just passive aggressive.

But just one little thought for you...who developed Thunderbolt? Who profits from it the most? Why would you cut industry-standard ports for some port that is better but not used by many others?

There you have your reasoning for Apple. It isn't because they had to....if anyone honestly believes it was necessary to cut out USB-A and SD-Cards they just have no clue about Computers in general. Thunderbolt only gets pushed because Apple is involved in it's development. If thunderbolt is used in more and more devices, apple will get fees from it. And other hardware-producers will ofc produce more Thunderbolt Equpiment now since Apple-users like you justify everything Apple does, without questioning if it is in their best interest or if it just a scam. Man you are really not worth it.

"What happened to your argument that this weightless, sizeless device was also without cost?"

It still remains. I just wanted to show that even if your argument was right there is still no reason to exclude said ports. Q.E.D since there are better options out there. All your arguments are like this:

Let Apple save 5$ for 50g of weight increase. Yeah seems smart...if weight was such an issue like you say there are better options out there. Funny how weight and costs are so important to you...but no one except for you would probably mind 5$ upprice for 50g of weight-increase. But ofc it is okay for apple to make the MBP way more expensive because of a touchbar....yeah seems right. Your arguments aren't wrong but you change your line of argument how it fits you. It is not consistent. And by doing so you can ofc win every argument. You don't care that you contradict yourself all the time. Thus, i am done and won't reply to any further posts and simply wait for the deletion of my account.

Nevertheless, all the best to all of you.

 

[thesaint024]

@thesaind024
I don't want to be associated with you. And you aren't worth it. I decide if you worth my time or not. You could be Tim Cook for all i care and you still wouldn't be worth it. I don't value ppl by their money or power or any other superficial virtue. I value decency and intelligence above all materialistic values. And you clearly don't meet my standards. And you obviously dont know the difference between beeing passive aggressiv and sarcasm. But nowadays everyone is sarcastics while in reality beeing just passive aggressive.

But just one little thought for you...who developed Thunderbolt? Who profits from it the most? Why would you cut industry-standard ports for some port that is better but not used by many others?

There you have your reasoning for Apple. It isn't because they had to....if anyone honestly believes it was necessary to cut out USB-A and SD-Cards they just have no clue about Computers in general. Thunderbolt only gets pushed because Apple is involved in it's development. If thunderbolt is used in more and more devices, apple will get fees from it. And other hardware-producers will ofc produce more Thunderbolt Equpiment now since Apple-users like you justify everything Apple does, without questioning if it is in their best interest or if it just a scam. Man you are really not worth it.

"What happened to your argument that this weightless, sizeless device was also without cost?"

It still remains. I just wanted to show that even if your argument was right there is still no reason to exclude said ports. Q.E.D since there are better options out there. All your arguments are like this:

Let Apple save 5$ for 50g of weight increase. Yeah seems smart...if weight was such an issue like you say there are better options out there. Funny how weight and costs are so important to you...but no one except for you would probably mind 5$ upprice for 50g of weight-increase. But ofc it is okay for apple to make the MBP way more expensive because of a touchbar....yeah seems right. Your arguments aren't wrong but you change your line of argument how it fits you. It is not consistent. And by doing so you can ofc win every argument. You don't care that you contradict yourself all the time. Thus, i am done and won't reply to any further posts and simply wait for the deletion of my account.

Nevertheless, all the best to all of you.

No idea what you just said, but best to you as well. Btw, you don't actually need to read this forum while waiting for mods to delete your account, which is also unnecessary other than to make a point of finality. You do have the option to just go away.

 

[Sanpete]

I value decency and intelligence above all materialistic values.

We don't always live up to our values.

if anyone honestly believes it was necessary to cut out USB-A and SD-Cards

No one believes that, and no one has said that. There's a difference between being better on the whole and being necessary.

I just wanted to show that even if your argument was right there is still no reason to exclude said ports. Q.E.D since there are better options out there.

What you actually showed was that there are more expensive or otherwise less satisfactory options.

All your arguments are like this: . . .

Um, no. As happened earlier in this thread, you haven't addressed most of what I actually said.

 

[wjw0111]

my impression is that most of you agree, that the current line-up isn't worth buying and that Apple is heavly neglecting their Pro-Users.

I think it depends what you mean by "Pro User", as this seems to the be the ongoing gripe that comes up in forums like these. I think the people that have problems are those that consider "Pro" to mean programming, virtual machines, etc... Those tiny fraction of users that need the absolute most powerful processors, video cards, more than 16GB of ram, loads of different ports, etc. etc. For them, I'll agree that Apple's recent update cycles haven't been anything to write home about.

That said, if you are a "Pro" in that you are a professional-type person but not necessarily in a world of programming, sysadmin, etc... then the Pro computers will fit your needs really well. (i.e. if you are a doctor, lawyer, accountant, teacher, blogger, podcaster, etc.). I consider myself a professional, but I work in the education field, not in tech. As such, I don't need more than 8 GB ram to accomplish my workflows, however I do appreciate the beautiful retina screen of my new MacBook Pro. I love the look of it, that it's thin, that it's light. I love the new keyboard (very different from the 1st-gen butterfly that was released with the MacBook). I love typing on this thing. For me it's lovely.

I'm the type of person that is actually pretty minimalist, I don't own a ton of stuff (junk), but when I do buy something I don't mess around. I have no problem paying the "Apple Tax" because it's a few hundred more than a comparable PC option and that it is worth it to me for MacOS, and the superior build quality of the hardware. Friends that cheap out and buy entry-level PC's generally regret it and they only last a few years, whereas I feel like I'm on a pretty long upgrade-cycle when it comes to Apple Macs, and even iPhones (I'm still super happy with my iPhone 6, MIGHT upgrade to the whatever comes out this year, but still unsure).

Lastly, I would note that if you're going to start to dabble in the Apple ecosystem, you will see compounding returns if you stick to Apple for all your devices. Yes, it is exactly what they want, for you to buy only Apple everything... However, for someone that now has an Apple Watch, iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro and Apple TV; it is awesome how it all works together. It's the little things, like Airdrop and Airplay. But also that my MacBook Pro unlocks automatically as long as I'm wearing my watch. It all just works well.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

Edit: oops, sorry. I was giving some honest thoughts before reading through the whole thread... Seems like you might actually just be trolling. But I'll leave the rest of my post in case it's helpful for others!

 

[darksithpro]

All these problems and arguments would simply go away if Apple made a special laptop for power users "real pro users" All they would have to do is bring back the 17 inch RMBP. Put in the latest Kabylake CPU, a 1070, or a 1060, put in 32 gigs of ram, a couple of SSDs and charge and arm and a leg for it, maybe even an organ, and people would so buy in a heart beat, like hot cakes. It wouldn't matter how expensive it was. Because it would run Mac OS natively and they would be able to dual boot into Windows and Linux and take full advantage of the powerful components.

 

[daihard]

The Price isn't an issue for me anymore. Similar Windows Notebook cost almost the same. But i loathe the feeling of beeing ripped off or if a company doesnt value me as a customer after i have given them my money. Apple is kinda giving off that vibe currently. At least i feel that way. And i am reluctant to get locked-in into their ecosystem if that is the case. And the readings here have shown me that Apple actually is neglecting their Pro-Users.

I've been an Apple laptop user since 2004. I'm not locked into their ecosystem, though, and you don't have to be. I own an Android smartphone and use Google services for all my cloud needs (i.e. music, photos, documents, etc). Unlike Linux, which I also use at home and at work, Google provides easy-to-use desktop tools for OS X / macOS.

I recently visited a Microsoft store to look at some Windows laptops for my wife. While there are some nice products out there, the combination of Windows and HP/Dell/Lenovo is no match for the Apple camp. Just my 2 cents.

As for Apple neglecting their "Pro-Users," I agree with others that it depends on how you define "Pro-User." I do professional software engineering work on my current 13-inch MacBook Pro. It's got 16 GB RAM and enough CPU power to smoothly run a couple of VM guests and Xcode at the same time.

 

[Sanpete]

All they would have to do is bring back the 17 inch RMBP.

Ha, if only there had ever been one! That would be a hot item.

 

[darksithpro]

Ha, if only there had ever been one! That would be a hot item.

Yes it would! See... Even you know that would be a Blockbuster hit!

 

[wjw0111]

bring back the 17 inch RMBP

There isn't one to "bring back" the 17 inch was discontinued before the Retina screen was introduced on the MBP.

I don't know if it would actually sell that well. Though it gets over inflated on forums like this, the market for ultra high end computers is actually pretty limited. Most Apple customers are just day-to-day professionals (not necessarily in IT) that just want a reliable and attractive computer to get through our days

 

[EnderBeta]

@Sanpete

You want to know what i as a professional care for? Money. That is it. The difference between a Professional and Wannabe-Professional is quite simple. The later spends money on stuff he doesn't need or overpays on stuff he needs. I don't want to overpay and i will not overpay. It is as simple as that.

"How is it embarrassing? Professionals care about performance. Others may care more about superficial things like specs and recency. Maybe you can answer the question I asked above and have asked repeatedly of critics of the Mac Pro, what professional task is the Mac Pro unable to efficiently accomplish?"

There is nothing superficial about specs and recency. In fact a professional who doesn't care about performance won't need a Mac Pro. The customers of the Mac Pro are the ones who care specs. You apply the arguments that are reasonable for th average user on professional users. Yes the Mac Pro surely will do every Job most professionals need to do. But here is the catch. Why would i pay double the Price! And yes it is double the Price for a Mac Pro. There is absolutly no justification for that. Hell even the superior Support won't make up for it. I would rather buy a better performing machine two times or three times. And that's that. Wasting money doesn't make you a professional. Professionals care about money the most.

You see the MacBook Pro comes at a price that is reasonable. Similar products cost the same or are slighlty cheaper. But the Apple design and support make up for it. But not for the iMac and also not for the Mac Pro. It is as simple as that. I have no idea why you are trying to defend a product that clearly has outlived its product-life-cyle. If you are a customer and are defending apple's current ripp-off on the Mac Pro...well then any further discussion is meaningless.

But since you so care so much about what i do. My job changes every few months. I am an engineer and actually i don't have one area. Sometimes i only work with Excel, Powerpoint and Outlook. But at times i build simulations with AnyLogic or PlantSim. At other times i run Forming-Simulations etc. The list is long and the requirements differ greatly. But i need and want a Desktop-PC that is reasonable priced and meets my Standards.

I will summarize now:

I am content with the MacBook Pro currently but would love to see 32GB.
I am not content with the Mac Pro and won't buy it.
I am waiting for an iMac update and will see if it reasonably priced.

I have made up my mind. Thanks by the way.

You're not accounting for total cost of ownership.
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Wow. You still don't get it. The MacBook Pro isnt more expensive than a similar Notebook from Windows. The difference is around 200-500€ which is reasonable. The iMac has high competition (Microsoft Studio!). If the iMac had updated Hardware the price is reasonable.

So no...you really can't recommend either of both. They both underperform currently and are heavily overpriced. The same can't be said about the MacBook Pro. You just fail to differentiate properly.

The Microsoft Studio has a lower end i7 processor and costs more. The graphics is also last generation too. You're buying old tech on it too.