Should next iPads have USB-C instead of lightning?

[masotime]

Lightning is smaller and more robust than USB-C... <snip>

USB-C is a huge upgrade from USB-A and Micro-B/Mini-B, but it is not as robust as lightning.....<snip>

You mention robustness twice. Could you elaborate or provide a link? Genuinely curious here.

 

[nbourbaki]

I voted for USB-c mostly because I want to see USB 3.0 transfer speeds and Apple doesn't seem to be able to get the lightning connector to achieve that. It would be great if that new connector also supported HDMI Alt Mode for USB Type-C. If Apple wants to devote engineering resources to replicate what USB-C brings to the table, great, but USB 2.0 speeds need to go away on the pro devices. And please stop with the dongles already.

 

[username:]

Lightning was available 4 years ago when Apple wanted a smaller and reversible connector. USB C wasn't. For better and for worse, we now have a thriving ecosystem of Lightning accessories and it seems premature to give all this up for USB C which is still in its infancy.

Personally, I am quite indifferent to the move. For example, if I were to travel overseas, I am not going to be bringing just 1 cable for all my Apple devices, even if they all share the same port. I am still going to being enough cables to be able to charge them all simultaneously overnight. 3 USB C cables, or 1 USB C and 2 Lightning cables, or some other combination of the three. There really isn't any benefit to me either way.

So there is no benefit to you either way, but some benefits to other users. Sounds like a win-win for USB-c.

Lightning is smaller and more robust than USB-C. I think that Apple will stick with it for their portable devices until they are ready to go completely wireless for charging and syncing. I could see them maybe keeping something like the smart connector around as a backup for cases where there are hardware/software issues that require a physical connection to get back up and running.

USB-C is a huge upgrade from USB-A and Micro-B/Mini-B, but it is not as robust as lightning. Apple probably could have got everyone to adopt lightning as the new standard if they would have given away the rights for free, but they obviously didn't want to do that. USB-C is a good compromise for a similar connector that no single company has the rights for.

It took years for all of the cell phone manufacturers to finally all use Micro-B, and it will probably still be a few years before they all switch to USB-C. Why would we want Apple to switch to USB-C now, when many other devices will still be using Micro-B, when Apple will probably get rid of the connector soon anyway?

Ok if they are going to wireless charging for iPads, but I'm not sure that's feasible given the size of the batteries in them.

Let's assume iPads will stay wired charging for the next 10 years, why not switch to USB-c?

Regardless of which side you are on...the iPad will continue to be Lightning.

Why? Why can't they make some changes that actually benefit people?

The dongle situation is a big reason.

 

[temna]

MacOS is relatively open, hence USB C. IOS isn't, hence Lightning. Complaining about it won't change anything. Lightning is their own design, so they can include chips to control data flow in the standard. Don't expect USB C on iOS any time soon.. Oh, and I tend to get USB 3 speeds from my iPad Pro when I need them (using wired ethernet for example)..
[doublepost=1479241476][/doublepost]

No, Lightning is $$$ for Apple, USB-C is convenience for users.

Why da *** you think a connector is OS dependent is beyond me.

OS security. It's that simple. Apple controls the design of Lightning.

 

[nbourbaki]

Oh, and I tend to get USB 3 speeds from my iPad Pro when I need them (using wired ethernet for example)..

Only in some cases. Syncing from a computer to the IPP still transfers at USB 2.0 speed. It's really crazy. A MacBook with native USB 3.1 Gen 1 type C, using Apple's USB-C to Lightning cable will only transfer to the IPP 12 at USB 2.0 speeds.

If they want to keep going with Lightning, spend some engineering time and fix your ecosystem. If not, I'll sit on my money.

 

[Abazigal]

So there is no benefit to you either way, but some benefits to other users. Sounds like a win-win for USB-c.

Ok if they are going to wireless charging for iPads, but I'm not sure that's feasible given the size of the batteries in them.

Let's assume iPads will stay wired charging for the next 10 years, why not switch to USB-c?

Why? Why can't they make some changes that actually benefit people?

The dongle situation is a big reason.

Just as there are drawbacks for some people, such as having to toss out all your Lightning cables and losing access to your Lightning accessories. All for a benefit which isn't as significant as going with USB C on computers (because Lightning is already reversible, and some dongles are flat out meaningless).

I just thought of another reason - Apple has full control over the Lightning spec and complete freedom over how they want to modify it, unlike USB C. I like the idea of Apple having this sort of autonomy over their own cable standard, not least because it allows Apple to play around with Lightning according to their needs, something they can't do with an open standard like USB C.

 

[Rob_2811]

You realise that it's not just a connector right?

No its an Apple cash cow too. He's absolutely right. Lightning was a better option technically that micro usb/30 pin or anything else being used on mobile devices at the time. That isn't the case anymore.

The iPad will never be a replacement for a PC of any description until it has got proper i/o

You mention robustness twice. Could you elaborate or provide a link? Genuinely curious here.

For robust read profitable.

MacOS is relatively open, hence USB C. IOS isn't, hence Lightning. Complaining about it won't change anything. Lightning is their own design, so they can include chips to control data flow in the standard. Don't expect USB C on iOS any time soon.. Oh, and I tend to get USB 3 speeds from my iPad Pro when I need them (using wired ethernet for example)..
[doublepost=1479241476][/doublepost]

OS security. It's that simple. Apple controls the design of Lightning.

Thats nonsense.

 

[username:]

MacOS is relatively open, hence USB C. IOS isn't, hence Lightning. Complaining about it won't change anything. Lightning is their own design, so they can include chips to control data flow in the standard. Don't expect USB C on iOS any time soon.. Oh, and I tend to get USB 3 speeds from my iPad Pro when I need them (using wired ethernet for example)..
[doublepost=1479241476][/doublepost]

OS security. It's that simple. Apple controls the design of Lightning.

Put it this way. I can see USB-c being way more useful on the iPad than continuing with lightning. Personally, being able to plug in a hard drive or USB stick is my reason. But I am sure there are other reasons too.

I can see that USB-c goes against the nature of iOS. and maybe the OS needs to transition too.

 

[M. Gustave]

The iPad will never be a replacement for a PC of any description until it has got proper i/o

How quaintly old-fashioned. Ports. LOL.

 

[bufffilm]

So there is no benefit to you either way, but some benefits to other users. Sounds like a win-win for USB-c.



Ok if they are going to wireless charging for iPads, but I'm not sure that's feasible given the size of the batteries in them.

Let's assume iPads will stay wired charging for the next 10 years, why not switch to USB-c?



Why? Why can't they make some changes that actually benefit people?

The dongle situation is a big reason.

The Lightning port on the iDevices is much robust than the USB-c connector.

Bad design on the USB-c.

 

[masotime]

The Lightning port on the iDevices is much robust than the USB-c connector.

I would really like more clarification on this assertion. I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't see it. Are we equating the connector size with robustness....? Is it the impression that something solid is better than a hollow connector....? Or are there actual solid grounds for this assertion?

 

[M. Gustave]

I would really like more clarification on this assertion. I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't see it. Are we equating the connector size with robustness....? Is it the impression that something solid is better than a hollow connector....? Or are there actual solid grounds for this assertion?

I remember reading when lightning was first released that it was designed to "ablate" or break away without damaging the phone. I doubt if that's the case with USB-C?

 

[masotime]

I remember reading when lightning was first released that it was designed to "ablate" or break away without damaging the phone. I doubt if that's the case with USB-C?

Thanks for the suggestion... I couldn't find a direct reference to "ablate", but I did find this article: http://pocketnow.com/2016/02/05/usb-type-c-vs-apples-lightning-connector-smartphone-cable-showdown

Both cables might be reversible, but the cable designs are opposites in how they connect to other computing devices. Like Micro USB, USB C cables receive the pins from a tab built into the port in your phone. Lightning cables are tabs with exposed pins. The ports on iPads and iPhones are simpler receptacles. The difference between these two designs marks the difference in where we assume wear and damage might occur. USB C’s design protects the pins and connectors on cables, but there might be some durability concerns over the tab inside a device. I’ve never personally experienced a broken Micro USB port, but it is entirely possible, even with a thicker connector than Micro USB, that the internal tab could be damaged. Lightning cables might have more issues with dirty exposed pins or damaged wiring, but it’s less likely that stresses on the cable will lead to a damaged phone port.

The description seems to suggest a trade off rather than greater robustness though. If anyone has any other articles, id be very interested to read more.

 

[bufffilm]

I would really like more clarification on this assertion. I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't see it. Are we equating the connector size with robustness....? Is it the impression that something solid is better than a hollow connector....? Or are there actual solid grounds for this assertion?

Before I delve into why Lightning is more robust...some info about me.

Prior to buying the 6s last Oct, I had never owned a smartphone. And prior to May 2016, I never had a device that featured mini-USB either.

All this is to impress upon you that I had no experience with Lightning, or the mini-USB, or USB-C either for that matter. The three most common connector types being used today were totally foreign to me.

So the thing that struck me deeply upon seeing my iPhone was how robust the Lightning connector is.

Much of that is due to the fact that it's a -female- connector. No pins to break off or in danger of bending. To charge your phone or iPad, a male plug is to be inserted. The male plug may break off inside, but once extracted...the female connector is still intact and unharmed. The force needed to crack the female socket is pretty considerable.

In contrast, the mini-USB on phones/tablets is a male connector...much more prone to damage by insertion, bending, rough handling, etc. It's ridiculous how easy it is to damage the male connector.

And now w/the USB-C, it is no better. Same weakness. It's actually very disappointing that they never switched to a female connector, still.

If Apple keeps the iPad/iPhone on Lightning, I for one will continue be very happy. The less I see of USB-C in this regard...the better.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

OS security. It's that simple. Apple controls the design of Lightning.

What? How should iOS make a connector more secure than macOS?

And even though you aren't answering my question, I can tell you that the Lightning protocol and connector is already broken, so your argument is pointless.

 

[username:]

I remember reading when lightning was first released that it was designed to "ablate" or break away without damaging the phone. I doubt if that's the case with USB-C?

Seems more people would prefer USB-c

 

[bensisko]

Seems more people would prefer USB-c

"It seems more people who are responding to this particular poll / thread would prefer USB-C."

Fixed that for you!
Remember, we are NOT the wider consumer base - in many cases we're not even close to 'representative' of the larger group of consumers. Every single person on this site could agree on something (that would be the day) and that still doesn't mean it's what a larger audience wants.
[doublepost=1479325595][/doublepost]

USB-C supports so many more standards and saves carrying an extra cable.

And that's a consumer nightmare right there. Just because you can plug something in because you have the right port, doesn't mean it's compatible. Even if the iPad had USB-C, that doesn't exactly open up the world of accessories. That's even true in the larger USB world - just because I can plug it in doesn't mean it will work with my machine (there are USB printers than can physically plug into a Surface Pro, but Windows 8/10 may not have compatible drivers).

There is no size advantage. Also apple could release a USB-c stick for files.

Nope. Apple would never release a USB-C stick for files (first because of the push away from physical media, second because it wouldn't make the accessory itself, and third because lightning isn't the limiting factor - it's the storage philosophy for iOS).

If they wanted to Apple could make a Lightning stick for files. Apple doesn't want to. There are 3rd part manufacturers that have made lightning compatible drives.

 

[masotime]

Actually I'm beginning to have mixed feelings about this. I don't really think Lightning is more robust than USB-C, although it is definitely more robust than micro-USB.

• The USB-C connector is considerably thicker and longer than microUSB.
• They are used to power the new MacBook Pros, which to me are at a greater risk of having the cord being pulled the wrong way, yet they are there.

I'm not mechanical / materials engineer, but I have the impression that the USB-C connector is more likely to bend than break if pulled the wrong way.

What's definitely true is that thinness would be affected if Apple switched to USB-C, which in comparison to lightning really is quite thick, in part because of the cylindrical structure. Given Apple's propensity for ever thinner devices / efficient space utilization in their mobile devices, it seems unlikely they will switch to USB-C from lightning.

 

[username:]

"It seems more people who are responding to this particular poll / thread would prefer USB-C."

Fixed that for you!
Remember, we are NOT the wider consumer base - in many cases we're not even close to 'representative' of the larger group of consumers. Every single person on this site could agree on something (that would be the day) and that still doesn't mean it's what a larger audience wants.
[doublepost=1479325595][/doublepost]

And that's a consumer nightmare right there. Just because you can plug something in because you have the right port, doesn't mean it's compatible. Even if the iPad had USB-C, that doesn't exactly open up the world of accessories. That's even true in the larger USB world - just because I can plug it in doesn't mean it will work with my machine (there are USB printers than can physically plug into a Surface Pro, but Windows 8/10 may not have compatible drivers).




Nope. Apple would never release a USB-C stick for files (first because of the push away from physical media, second because it wouldn't make the accessory itself, and third because lightning isn't the limiting factor - it's the storage philosophy for iOS).

If they wanted to Apple could make a Lightning stick for files. Apple doesn't want to. There are 3rd part manufacturers that have made lightning compatible drives.

One main reason is simplicity. the same port on all devices sounds like Jony Ive's wet dream. And it would be easy to use, I wouldn't have to worry about what cable I have or what charger. Also if the apple pencil becomes USB-c it can charge from the Macbooks. and if someone owns android products, they can charge those as well.

How long will apple stick with lightning for the iPad?

 

[bensisko]

One main reason is simplicity. the same port on all devices sounds like Jony Ive's wet dream. And it would be easy to use, I wouldn't have to worry about what cable I have or what charger. Also if the apple pencil becomes USB-c it can charge from the Macbooks. and if someone owns android products, they can charge those as well.

"Simplicity" is in the eye of the beholder. For you, switching out Lightning for USB-C would make things easier. For me? Not so much. I have multiple iOS devices that I actively use and the biggest pain the butt would be for Apple to start using USB-C. Eventually all of my devices would be on the same port, but it would be years before all of my devices are switched out for newer models - until then I have to worry about multiple chargers and cables.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not against advancing technology (it was a good move to switch from the 32 Pin to Lightning, and it will be a good move to eventually replace lightning) - I'm just pointing out that it's not "simple" for everyone.

I'll leave out elaboration on the point that USB-C is FAR from ubiquitous and, for now, only a small percentage would find convenience.

How long will apple stick with lightning for the iPad?

My hope? Given that rumors indicate good wireless charging is right around the corner, Apple will skip USB-C as hardware port and keep lightning until an all wireless solution is implemented. If the rumor is true and they have a good wireless charging system in the works, then they can eliminate the port all together. Wireless charging + WiFi/Bluetooth/xG for data.

 

[Michael Goff]

Apple should move to USB-C for everything. Period. We can talk about how great the wireless future is, but wires will always be a thing for certain tasks like charging large devices and moving large amounts of data.

 

[bensisko]

Apple should move to USB-C for everything. Period. We can talk about how great the wireless future is, but wires will always be a thing for certain tasks like charging large devices and moving large amounts of data.

Putting charging aside, Apple could kill the Lightning port right now. Bluetooth and WiFi are perfectly sufficient for data transfer.

As for charging - if good wireless charging is 10 years out... okay make the switch to USB-C. If it's 5 or less years out, then stick with Lightning until you kill off the port entirely.

They've made a lot of advances in the world of wireless charging in the past few years, I don't think it's going to be too long before it starts showing up in the iPhone, then the iPad.

 

[Michael Goff]

Putting charging aside, Apple could kill the Lightning port right now. Bluetooth and WiFi are perfectly sufficient for data transfer.

As for charging - if good wireless charging is 10 years out... okay make the switch to USB-C. If it's 5 or less years out, then stick with Lightning until you kill off the port entirely.

They've made a lot of advances in the world of wireless charging in the past few years, I don't think it's going to be too long before it starts showing up in the iPhone, then the iPad.

I actually like to use my tablet while it charges. Also, tell photographers that wireless transfer is good enough next to a corded solution.

 

[Rob_2811]

Before I delve into why Lightning is more robust...some info about me.

Prior to buying the 6s last Oct, I had never owned a smartphone. And prior to May 2016, I never had a device that featured mini-USB either.

All this is to impress upon you that I had no experience with Lightning, or the mini-USB, or USB-C either for that matter. The three most common connector types being used today were totally foreign to me.

So the thing that struck me deeply upon seeing my iPhone was how robust the Lightning connector is.

Much of that is due to the fact that it's a -female- connector. No pins to break off or in danger of bending. To charge your phone or iPad, a male plug is to be inserted. The male plug may break off inside, but once extracted...the female connector is still intact and unharmed. The force needed to crack the female socket is pretty considerable.

In contrast, the mini-USB on phones/tablets is a male connector...much more prone to damage by insertion, bending, rough handling, etc. It's ridiculous how easy it is to damage the male connector.

And now w/the USB-C, it is no better. Same weakness. It's actually very disappointing that they never switched to a female connector, still.

If Apple keeps the iPad/iPhone on Lightning, I for one will continue be very happy. The less I see of USB-C in this regard...the better.

Honestly if you think in your, let's be honest rather limited, experience that the lightning connector/cables are robust and well made the fair enough and I appreciate you are talking about the connector.

Over 200 people have written one star reviews of the lightning to USB cable on Apples website with the vast majority describing them as flimsy, there is a reason why there is a huge third party market for strengthened braided lightning cables.

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME291AM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable-05-m?fnode=97

 

[bensisko]

Honestly if you think in your, let's be honest rather limited, experience that the lightning connector/cables are robust and well made the fair enough and I appreciate you are talking about the connector.

Over 200 people have written one star reviews of the lightning to USB cable on Apples website with the vast majority describing them as flimsy, there is a reason why there is a huge third party market for strengthened braided lightning cables.

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME291AM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable-05-m?fnode=97

Wow... 200! That's really something! Especially compared to the hundreds of millions of people who have them over the years with their various iOS devices!
[doublepost=1479442811][/doublepost]

I actually like to use my tablet while it charges. Also, tell photographers that wireless transfer is good enough next to a corded solution.

What makes you think you wouldn't be able to with Wireless charging?

I will tell my photographer friends (as well as myself) that wireless is fine for transfer - we do it all the time! In fact, myself and some of my friends use EyeFi cards to transfer directly from the SLR to the iPad while we shoot.

The volume where this becomes an issue is probably also the point where a photographer is going to have a Mac with them instead of an iPad.