Should next iPads have USB-C instead of lightning?

[M. Gustave]

Apples first party charging cables very prone to fraying/loose connections as the reviews on their site suggest...

This is simply not true, I've been using them since the first iPod.

What you see in Apple's website reviews is the intersection of a mass market with precision electronics. Have you seen how the average person treats their cables and phones? My friend's 8 year old was walking through the house holding her iPad, with a battery pack attached by a lightning cable dragging behind her on the floor. I'm sure they'll write a bad review when the cable frays in two weeks.

My wife pulls every cable out by yanking the cable itself, rather than pulling by the connector. Meanwhile I'm still using the same lightning cable from 2013.

 

[Andy847]

Yes because every single person who has had an issue with a lightning charging cable wrote a review, there have only been 200 people who have had an issue

That amount of reviews is way above average for a product on Apples own site most have attracted less than ten, but i'm sure you knew that, i'm sure you checked before making an ill informed sarcastic comment didn't you?

Apple even admitted themselves recently that there is a huge counterfeit market for them on Amazon, why is that I wonder, could it be ....?

1. Apples first party charging cables very prone to fraying/loose connections as the reviews on their site suggest.

2. Apples lightning cables are hugely over priced.

3. If people are going to buy abysmal quality they would rather purchase it for minimal cost on Amazon rather than be ripped off paying five times the amount to Apple.

I agree totally with this, as I had to buy an extra charging cord for my Apple Pencil. If you look at most of the reviews on Apples own site, most of the stuff on their accessories page rarely gets even 3 stars. I did buy a 3ft lightning to usb cord plus charger from them with no problem, but most of the ratings are abysmal to say the least. That' being said, you have to take into account that some of the negative reviews are people who don't take the best care of their cords or equipment. Still I was really reluctant to buy from them with all the bad average of ratings on their accessories. i was one the people who didn't have a bad experience.

I agree too that you're rolling the dice on amazon, but I looked on there and decided to just trust that Apple would replace any bad cords or something I bought that was faulty. I could be wrong though. I always think Amazon is cheaper though, so look there first.

 

[magicMac]

Lightning is waterproof so it will likely stay around on the iPhone. The iPad will likely move to USB-C as its more of a computer.

 

[bensisko]

Yes because every single person who has had an issue with a lightning charging cable wrote a review, there have only been 200 people who have had an issue

That amount of reviews is way above average for a product on Apples own site most have attracted less than ten, but i'm sure you knew that, i'm sure you checked before making an ill informed sarcastic comment didn't you?

Apple even admitted themselves recently that there is a huge counterfeit market for them on Amazon, why is that I wonder, could it be ....?

1. Apples first party charging cables very prone to fraying/loose connections as the reviews on their site suggest.

2. Apples lightning cables are hugely over priced.

3. If people are going to buy abysmal quality they would rather purchase it for minimal cost on Amazon rather than be ripped off paying five times the amount to Apple.

Yep - I did know that (I also know there are WAY more than 200 posted on the site...). I also READ a bunch of the reviews and some of them are downright hilarious! There are several that I read that are complaining about 3rd Party cables!

I own a TON of Lightning Cables - I have 8 iOS devices in various states of use - and I have never had a 'frayed' or bad lightning cable. I also know a LOT of people that have iOS devices and the only complaint I've heard from anybody about the lightning cable is that they wish it came in multiple colors (to which I've pointed to 3rd party cables).

Now, I know personal experience means nothing. Just because neither myself or anyone I know has had issues with cables doesn't mean there's a problem. But, I find it odd that so many of these "negative reviews" on the cable revel themselves to be people complaining about the product being "horrible quality" when, even in the review, it sounds like misuse. There's one complaining about it not working after his dog chewed on it! OMG! I'm sure there are legit complaints, but they're buried in misuse, abuse, and complaints too general to be any good.

Yes, I made a sarcastic comment because, having read through the reviews, I found many of them hilarious.

 

[Peepo]

I have seen many problems with lightning cables fraying. Mine usually last longer if I use as charging only and I try to take care of my things. The issue I have see with others is they use their iPhone while plugged into charger and this causes twisting and stress and usually fails right where the wire cord connects to the hard lightning connector. It starts bulging and then breaks with wires get exposed and eventually fails. I have also seen the lightning pins get damaged which prevents charging when plugged in one way.

Yes people are hard on them but they are not designed very robust.

 

[masotime]

The... connector should be an independent discussion from the durability of the cable. I'm sure if you're going to use the cable roughly, something like Anker's Powerline Lightning cables are probably a better choice, but that has little to do with the connector itself.

 

[Peepo]

The... connector should be an independent discussion from the durability of the cable. I'm sure if you're going to use the cable roughly, something like Anker's Powerline Lightning cables are probably a better choice, but that has little to do with the connector itself.

The connector happens to be attached to the cable. They are built designed to fail - they will fray because of the strain and bending. Since lightning is owned by Apple, they are getting people to purchase more lightning cables and therefore make more money selling their cables. Changing to USB C would take away this revenue stream and also allow it to connect to more standard devices.

 

[masotime]

Since lightning is owned by Apple, they are getting people to purchase more lightning cables and therefore make more money selling their cables.

There are plenty of non-Apple lightning cables. Many people buy the cheaper ones, and many are non-MFi certified.

Again, the connector is an independent issue with the cable. MFi-Licensed or not, the quality of the cable is up to the manufacturer, regardless of how the connector is implemented.

Just because the connector is USB-C does not magically make the cable more durable.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

One main reason is simplicity. the same port on all devices sounds like Jony Ive's wet dream. And it would be easy to use, I wouldn't have to worry about what cable I have or what charger. Also if the apple pencil becomes USB-c it can charge from the Macbooks. and if someone owns android products, they can charge those as well.

How long will apple stick with lightning for the iPad?

I'm not sure about Jony Ive's dreams. Lightning uses a 16-pin connector/cable, USB-C is 24 pins. For someone who likes "cleaner, lighter," I'm not sure "more pins" is what he dreams of.

I predict that you will continue to be concerned about what chargers you carry. You'll have small, low-power chargers for mobile devices, and larger, high-power ("PD") chargers intended for laptops or the occasional USB-C Bridge or disk drive array. Do you really want to carry around several laptop-sized chargers, and carry only PD-certified cables (which are bulkier and more expensive), if only one item in your kit requires a PD-strength charger and cable?

You're also equating physical compatibility with functionality. The USB-C standard does not require a manufacturer to provide all potential capabilities when it uses USB-C. For example, a device with USB-C may provide analog audio output for headphones, or it may provide digital-only. Meanwhile, a person with a pair of analog headphones with a USB-C plug on the end isn't going to get very far plugging the headphones into a standard, digital-only USB-C port.

Similarly, a port may be capable of driving Thunderbolt 3, or not. It's all allowed by the "standard." There's a growing list of "Alternate Mode" specifications.

It's not unlike A/V equipment that use RCA jacks for nearly all audio and video. Plugging an audio device into the video jack isn't going to get you very far, and taking a composite video output from one device is pointless if the device to which you're connecting only has separate R, G, and B inputs. Sure, life is simpler when you can use the same cable for many purposes, but when all the cables look the same, it also complicates the interconnect process. That's why the RCA cables that come with A/V gear are color-coded.

To me, USB-C delivers the illusion of universal compatibility. Who cares if a single USB-C to USB-C cable can be used for any purpose, if the iPad doesn't support the purpose you have in mind?

It seems a fair portion of the "I want USB-C" sentiment in this thread carries an assumption that a USB-C port will bring every traditional computer i/o capability to iOS - external displays, external storage, ethernet, hard-wired printers, etc. Not likely at all. Apple's i/o and storage scheme for iOS is quite intentionally limited, there's still no reason for them to go back on their original design philosophy - they could have done all of that, years ago, without USB-C.

This is just another, "I want iPad to be a Mac" thread, substituting "USB-C" for "MacOS."

 

[Peepo]

There are plenty of non-Apple lightning cables. Many people buy the cheaper ones, and many are non-MFi certified.

Again, the connector is an independent issue with the cable. MFi-Licensed or not, the quality of the cable is up to the manufacturer, regardless of how the connector is implemented.

Just because the connector is USB-C does not magically make the cable more durable.

The connector is not independent issue when it is attached to a bad cable, and Apple makes bad cables!

Since Apple makes lots of money on lightning cables, then an argument could be made against them going to USB-C. It conspiracy I believe that Apple makes lightning cables so they do not last so they can keep reselling to people. Sure, a 3rd party can make a robust cable and charge more for it but probably not because it will be too much money and Apple takes a portion of the profits for MFi therefore not competitive and nobody will buy. Those non-MFi cables - have not found one that doesn't break or fall apart and probably goes the same for USB-C and any other cheap cable.

Therefore, it is in Apple's best interests to keep lightning around because of the revenue it makes.

 

[username:]

I'm not sure about Jony Ive's dreams. Lightning uses a 16-pin connector/cable, USB-C is 24 pins. For someone who likes "cleaner, lighter," I'm not sure "more pins" is what he dreams of.

I predict that you will continue to be concerned about what chargers you carry. You'll have small, low-power chargers for mobile devices, and larger, high-power ("PD") chargers intended for laptops or the occasional USB-C Bridge or disk drive array. Do you really want to carry around several laptop-sized chargers, and carry only PD-certified cables (which are bulkier and more expensive), if only one item in your kit requires a PD-strength charger and cable?


You're also equating physical compatibility with functionality. The USB-C standard does not require a manufacturer to provide all potential capabilities when it uses USB-C. For example, a device with USB-C may provide analog audio output for headphones, or it may provide digital-only. Meanwhile, a person with a pair of analog headphones with a USB-C plug on the end isn't going to get very far plugging the headphones into a standard, digital-only USB-C port.

Similarly, a port may be capable of driving Thunderbolt 3, or not. It's all allowed by the "standard." There's a growing list of "Alternate Mode" specifications.

It's not unlike A/V equipment that use RCA jacks for nearly all audio and video. Plugging an audio device into the video jack isn't going to get you very far, and taking a composite video output from one device is pointless if the device to which you're connecting only has separate R, G, and B inputs. Sure, life is simpler when you can use the same cable for many purposes, but when all the cables look the same, it also complicates the interconnect process. That's why the RCA cables that come with A/V gear are color-coded.

To me, USB-C delivers the illusion of universal compatibility. Who cares if a single USB-C to USB-C cable can be used for any purpose, if the iPad doesn't support the purpose you have in mind?

It seems a fair portion of the "I want USB-C" sentiment in this thread carries an assumption that a USB-C port will bring every traditional computer i/o capability to iOS - external displays, external storage, ethernet, hard-wired printers, etc. Not likely at all. Apple's i/o and storage scheme for iOS is quite intentionally limited, there's still no reason for them to go back on their original design philosophy - they could have done all of that, years ago, without USB-C.

This is just another, "I want iPad to be a Mac" thread, substituting "USB-C" for "MacOS."

I know that the iPad can be charged from a MacBook charger.

And I understand that the functionality might not increase over the lightning port straight away, but the question is, with the USB-c now very much marketed by Apple deliberately as the port of the future, and with no deficiencies compared to lightning, why would they not upgrade the iPad to USB-c? At least then if they decide they want to make the iPad a bit more useful they have the option.

Also while this poll doesn't mean much it shows that some people would like it to change and is worth the consideration of Apple.

 

[temna]

Lightning is waterproof so it will likely stay around on the iPhone. The iPad will likely move to USB-C as its more of a computer.

Nope. iPad will NOT get USB C. It is part of what keeps iOS separate from OSX. iOS is lightning, OSX is Thunderbolt.

That is all.
[doublepost=1479941668][/doublepost]

I know that the iPad can be charged from a MacBook charger.

And I understand that the functionality might not increase over the lightning port straight away, but the question is, with the USB-c now very much marketed by Apple deliberately as the port of the future, and with no deficiencies compared to lightning, why would they not upgrade the iPad to USB-c? At least then if they decide they want to make the iPad a bit more useful they have the option.

Also while this poll doesn't mean much it shows that some people would like it to change and is worth the consideration of Apple.

Simple, because of the USB C and Thunderbolt standards, Apple cannot include their authentications chips in the cable and they can't keep iOS locked down the way it is now. Plus it gets into muddying the waters in what is iOS and what is OSX..

 

[ApfelKuchen]

The connector is not independent issue when it is attached to a bad cable, and Apple makes bad cables!

Since Apple makes lots of money on lightning cables, then an argument could be made against them going to USB-C. It conspiracy I believe that Apple makes lightning cables so they do not last so they can keep reselling to people. Sure, a 3rd party can make a robust cable and charge more for it but probably not because it will be too much money and Apple takes a portion of the profits for MFi therefore not competitive and nobody will buy. Those non-MFi cables - have not found one that doesn't break or fall apart and probably goes the same for USB-C and any other cheap cable.

Therefore, it is in Apple's best interests to keep lightning around because of the revenue it makes.

There's an assumption that Apple makes a ton of money on cables. I'm not so sure, when compared to their other sources of income. But let's assume that they do make tons of money on cables...

They're not making that money because Apple is the only source for Lightning cables. It's not. Apple's making the money because a fair percentage of the population that pays a premium for "the best" cell phone will also pay a premium for accessories and parts that carry that same brand name. For those consumers, it wouldn't matter whether it's a Lightning cable or a USB-C cable, the only thing that matters is the Apple brand. (And Apple charges the same for a USB-C cable as they do for a Lightning cable.)

This behavior is not something Apple invented. When the consumer decided on "Apple," or "Samsung," or "HTC," they made a decision to trust that brand name, and that trust then extends to accessories and replacement parts of the same brand.

Consumers are conditioned to be wary of "Brand X." Sometimes Brand X turns out to be a great product, sometimes it turns out to be a rip-off. Rather than take the risk, many consumers pay more for a familiar name.

Apple doesn't charge more for Lightning cables than it does for USB-C cables, so they won't be making less money on the cables they do sell. There's only the question of how many people who currently buy Apple-branded Lighting cables might say, "Oh, it's USB-C, I don't need to buy that from Apple." I don't think that's going to be many more than currently buy non-Apple Lightning cables.

Apple went from a proprietary connector (MagSafe) to USB-C for their MacBook chargers. The 60w Magsafe 2 charger included the cable that connects to the MacBook. The 61w USB-C charger comes without a cable. 60w Magsafe 2: $79. 61w USB-C charger $69 + USB-C charger cable $19.

About the only money Apple loses if they go to USB-C would be the licensing fees they get from the other companies that make Lightning cables. And I'm not sure Apple would lose that much. I doubt they'd discontinue the MFI (Made for iPhone) program, even if they did switch to USB-C. Maybe not as many companies would participate, but Apple's assurance that a product is compatible is no small thing.

 

[username:]

Nope. iPad will NOT get USB C. It is part of what keeps iOS separate from OSX. iOS is lightning, OSX is Thunderbolt.

That is all.
[doublepost=1479941668][/doublepost]

Simple, because of the USB C and Thunderbolt standards, Apple cannot include their authentications chips in the cable and they can't keep iOS locked down the way it is now. Plus it gets into muddying the waters in what is iOS and what is OSX..

If it is so simple, what is it that the other 70% of us don't get? Why should Apple ignore its customers? Apple should and does listen to its customers. They care a lot about what customers want. So if people want USB-c on the iPad, I don't see "keeping iOS locked down" as a legitimate reason. The reason iOS is locked down is to keep it more secure but making the input/output more adaptable doesn't seem like a security risk to me.

Granted, people probably will not feel passionately about this topic, as I don't really feel it is especially important, but I see it as a logical next step and did a simple poll to see if people agreed, which 70% did.

 

[jerryk]

I hope Apple goes USB-C. Lightning had it's day. And Apple will make a bundle selling the "proper" USB-C/TB-3 cables since not all cables have the same features.
[doublepost=1479997453][/doublepost]

Lightning is waterproof so it will likely stay around on the iPhone. The iPad will likely move to USB-C as its more of a computer.

USB-C can be waterproof. At least it is on Android phones.

 

[melendezest]

The answer to this is:

USB-C. DUH!!
[doublepost=1480003392][/doublepost]

If it is so simple, what is it that the other 70% of us don't get? Why should Apple ignore its customers? Apple should and does listen to its customers. They care a lot about what customers want. So if people want USB-c on the iPad, I don't see "keeping iOS locked down" as a legitimate reason. The reason iOS is locked down is to keep it more secure but making the input/output more adaptable doesn't seem like a security risk to me.

Granted, people probably will not feel passionately about this topic, as I don't really feel it is especially important, but I see it as a logical next step and did a simple poll to see if people agreed, which 70% did.

Your vision of Apple differs from mine, because you want what Apple is giving you. Just wait until they stop doing that (they will).

Apple only cares about Apple. The evidence of this has been voiced clearly upon the release of their "innovative" products, particularly the latest MB"P", the one-port MacBook, and the last Mac Pro.

Listen to their customers, my ass.

 

[username:]

The answer to this is:

USB-C. DUH!!
[doublepost=1480003392][/doublepost]

Your vision of Apple differs from mine, because you want what Apple is giving you. Just wait until they stop doing that (they will).

Apple only cares about Apple. The evidence of this has been voiced clearly upon the release of their "innovative" products, particularly the latest MB"P", the one-port MacBook, and the last Mac Pro.

Listen to their customers, my ass.

Well yeah, why would I buy a product I dont want?

 

[melendezest]

Well yeah, why would I buy a product I dont want?

Because it has some features you want, a lot you miss, but there is nowhere else to go.

I.E. The new MBP. If you want macOS, but don't want soldered RAM or SSD, and want MagSafe, the SD slot, etc...you're stuck.

 

[ericwn]

Nope. iPad will NOT get USB C. It is part of what keeps iOS separate from OSX. iOS is lightning, OSX is Thunderbolt.

That is all.

The problem with this logic is that newer Macs use Lightning ports on accessories (meant for MacOS computers) for charging. Lightning isn't just for iOS anymore these days, keyboards, trackpads, Airpods, remotes, pencils and mice charge via the same port.

 

[temna]

If it is so simple, what is it that the other 70% of us don't get? Why should Apple ignore its customers? Apple should and does listen to its customers. They care a lot about what customers want. So if people want USB-c on the iPad, I don't see "keeping iOS locked down" as a legitimate reason. The reason iOS is locked down is to keep it more secure but making the input/output more adaptable doesn't seem like a security risk to me.

Granted, people probably will not feel passionately about this topic, as I don't really feel it is especially important, but I see it as a logical next step and did a simple poll to see if people agreed, which 70% did.

It is not ignoring their customer, it is keeping to their hardware and software strategies. OSX is Thunderbolt, iOS is Lightning. That is just how it is and how it WILL BE. They can give Lightning USB 3 (they did it with the Pro 12.9), but the iPad will NOT be getting USB C.
[doublepost=1480008522][/doublepost]

The problem with this logic is that newer Macs use Lightning ports on accessories (meant for MacOS computers) for charging. Lightning isn't just for iOS anymore these days, keyboards, trackpads, Airpods, remotes, pencils and mice charge via the same port.

Those are accessories, and considering that Apple has the licence and rights to Lightning, why wouldn't they use it as the charging port for accessories. Most of those devices can be used with both iOS and OSX (except the mice, for now), so it makes sense to use lightning. (Plus, those devices were probably in the design phase well before Apple decided to use USB C.. Not to mention different design teams from the MacBook I'm sure..)

 

[username:]

It is not ignoring their customer, it is keeping to their hardware and software strategies. OSX is Thunderbolt, iOS is Lightning. That is just how it is and how it WILL BE. They can give Lightning USB 3 (they did it with the Pro 12.9), but the iPad will NOT be getting USB C.
[doublepost=1480008522][/doublepost]

Those are accessories, and considering that Apple has the licence and rights to Lightning, why wouldn't they use it as the charging port for accessories. Most of those devices can be used with both iOS and OSX (except the mice, for now), so it makes sense to use lightning. (Plus, those devices were probably in the design phase well before Apple decided to use USB C.. Not to mention different design teams from the MacBook I'm sure..)

I am still waiting for a key reason...

 

[temna]

I am still waiting for a key reason...

Key reason is it is Apple's strategy to keep the two lines separate. Do you completely lack common sense? Or are you one of those whiny kids complaining about the MacBook Pro going all in on USB C?

 

[username:]

Key reason is it is Apple's strategy to keep the two lines separate. Do you completely lack common sense? Or are you one of those whiny kids complaining about the MacBook Pro going all in on USB C?

I guess I am not understanding how keeping the iPad with the lightning i/o is critical to "keeping the two lines separate" or is useful in anyway.

 

[ericwn]

It is not ignoring their customer, it is keeping to their hardware and software strategies. OSX is Thunderbolt, iOS is Lightning. That is just how it is and how it WILL BE. They can give Lightning USB 3 (they did it with the Pro 12.9), but the iPad will NOT be getting USB C.
[doublepost=1480008522][/doublepost]

Those are accessories, and considering that Apple has the licence and rights to Lightning, why wouldn't they use it as the charging port for accessories. Most of those devices can be used with both iOS and OSX (except the mice, for now), so it makes sense to use lightning. (Plus, those devices were probably in the design phase well before Apple decided to use USB C.. Not to mention different design teams from the MacBook I'm sure..)

I know what is what. I object simplifications like Lightning is iOS specific, hence my comment.

 

[temna]

I guess I am not understanding how keeping the iPad with the lightning i/o is critical to "keeping the two lines separate" or is useful in anyway.

You can't tell how an iPad is different from a MacBook?!? Or how iOS is different from OSX?
[doublepost=1480031081][/doublepost]

I know what is what. I object simplifications like Lightning is iOS specific, hence my comment.

As far as computers go, Lightning IS iOS specific.. Accessories are a completely different issue and can have whatever connector works.. But a $100 keyboard is a long was away from a $4000 laptop or a $1500 tablet..