Sideloading Bill Would Allow 'Malware, Scams and Data-Exploitation to Proliferate,' Says Apple

[jchap]

If Apple actually curated the App Store they'd have a leg to stand on.

Apparently they do curate, but obviously not enough.

 

[icanhazmac]

Another issue with multiple stores......

New Phone, now you need to visit multiple stores to restore all of your purchases?

 

[Poerknaut]

If Apple were the only game in town, this whole "open 'em up" movement might have some teeth. But they're not!! THERE ARE OPTIONS IF YOU WANT TO SIDE LOAD or hate Tim, or whatever other issues you have with Apple. Go away. Enjoy your options. Leave mine alone. It's not hurting anyone, anything. Why are some so bent on removing choice by making Apple more like Android? It's so bizarre... And exhausting. Stay strong Apple.

How does this affect you in any way? Continue using the App Store if you want and the experience won’t change. For those that want to sideload, let them. Remember, Apple is just a company, not a religion, lol.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It is not unfounded. It is a fact. It is by the very definition that an open environment is inherently less secure than a closed system. I seriously don't understand why those of you are arguing this. Apple is not perfect, but opening up iOS will NOT improve security, only lessen it as that is the very definition of "open". Windows and macOS are, by this definition, less secure than iOS. Apple's statements are not unfounded.

Unfortunately by apple’s own word. The App Store review process is equivalent to the TSA or wet paper

 

[Shirasaki]

Too bad news headline article cannot be hidden based on personal preference after login. I am tired of seeing apple repeating the same bs points over and over.

And there are echo chambers lining up reinforcing those bs talking points. If sideloading is so bad, why Apple don’t lock down macOS like iOS does? Why Apple doesn’t just outright remove customisation to exert tighter control if locked down system is so secure? Isn’t that be great to have devices that looks, feels the same and can be used in the exact same way without much variation? How about managing all devices sold by Apple, through Apple server or sth, as if you don’t even own the hardware anymore? Wait, you don’t already? Nevermind then.

If Apple keeps repeating that lockdown safer bs, lockdown macOS first. I can’t wait to see next major release of macOS removing all advanced features (terminal, extensions, drivers etc etc) and dumb down like iOS does.

 

[ralphthemagi]

Not sure I'm with you on the vetting on signing

As far as I'm aware, on macOS they don't do really editorial control on what can get signed for macOS.

It's strictly about preventing true malware type issues.

Is that incorrect?
If you happen to have a link to info about their signing policies on macOS it would be super helpful actually.

I don't agree that iOS developers want to run unsigned apps (same as they usually don't want that on macOS)
It's simply about the revenue Apple is sucking up.

Why/how are Apple allowing paid macOS apps from third party sources that are signed if what your'e saying is true?
(That they'd shut down or not sign something like Epic Games from Epic directly)

The rules are whatever Apple wants them to be.

What is "true malware"? The line gets fuzzy real fast when it comes to payments, for both legitimate and non-legitimate reasons.

Do I know of any specific cases on macOS where something like this happened? No. But you wouldn't know about it if it DID happen, because you could just release the application unsigned and it's really not that hard to run an unsigned application on macOS anyway.

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

If Apple is going to do this they might as well stop making the iPhone

That would never happen. The iPhone is the main product that is generating $$$ for Apple. Have you seen the most recent quarterly earnings? Just crushing the market.

You want Apple to eliminate $71.6 billion worth of business?

 

[Shirasaki]

Apple is just a company, not a religion, lol.

However, it kind of is since 2007 (or earlier), and certainly it is now.

 

[Ethosik]

I am saying Apple's (and others) Doom & Gloom claim is not based on any factual evidence. It is flat out false based on current use.

Again this is simply 100% false. No questions about it. A closed, walled garden by definition is more secure than an open environment. I am really surprised you people believe this way. How does an OPEN environment, where I can literally download an iOS app from the website somehackerwebsitelol and run it be the same or more secure than from the App Store?

Yes, as pointed out App Store does have problems, But opening it up to random downloads on websites improve this.....HOW?!

 

[Ethosik]

If this passes, how long do you think it will be before the same people shouting the loudest in favor of it start blaming Apple for all the malware apps?

I remember when people were screaming for a la carte streaming tv. Those same people are now complaining there are too many services.

It will destroy the brand. Just like Android.

 

[Michael Scrip]

If Apple actually curated the App Store they'd have a leg to stand on.

True... Apple should do a better job at eliminating bad apps from their App Store. Even though they curate their store... some bad apps still sneak through. Point taken.

But I don't think the solution is to allow app installs from completely un-curated websites.

The possibilities for abuse would be endless if someone could download any ol' app from a sketchy website.

Windows malware comes to mind.

 

[code-m]

It is not unfounded. It is a fact. It is by the very definition that an open environment is inherently less secure than a closed system. I seriously don't understand why those of you are arguing this. Apple is not perfect, but opening up iOS will NOT improve security, only lessen it as that is the very definition of "open". Windows and macOS are, by this definition, less secure than iOS. Apple's statements are not unfounded.

Tell that to Apple’s own closed system what happened.

Source 1
Source 2
Source 3

The list goes on and on, the date does not matter. If you don’t want to sideload apps outside the official AppStore that is fine, don’t toggle the setting to do so and life is as it is, for those who want to explore and tinker with their device so be it. What was the Apple marketing tagline?….”Think Different”

Apple believes thinking differently is whatever supports their view, that is not democratic. What is Apple so afraid of, their customers having egad “choice”.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

No Apple can't do the same thing because you don't typically announce exclusivity contracts and Apple and Developer cannot break the contract without serious consequences.

My point was the whole argument "You can still choose not the side load" is not 100% true, because Epic WILL do this and it WILL be very popular apps.

Epic seems to announce them all the time and it took the epic store from zero to serious, while the Mac store is still just as dead as ever

 

[boss.king]

Fair enough. Again, not a fan of these apps or speech, but you said it yourself, "platforms as objectively horrible shouldn’t deserve to exist." That's what has Conservatives so upset at Big Tech, as they do want these platforms removing apps; post or censoring users. We are more than likely going to see amendments to the bills doing just that in order to gain the votes need to pass these bills.

The difference is that they just want things that are critical of them removed, not things that monger fear and hate. It’s a pretty important difference IMO but I acknowledge that it’s not always the easiest line to draw. Very much a “you know it when you see it” deal.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I agree with what Apple said. I think Apple has a right to protect their store and their product from damage.

 

[Ethosik]

Tell that to Apple own closed system what happened.

Source 1
Source 2
Source 3

The list goes on and on, the date does not matter. If you don’t want to sideload apps outside the official AppStore that is fine, don’t toggle the setting to do so and life is as it is, for those who want to explore and tinker with their device so be it. What was the Apple marketing tagline?….”Think Different”

Apple believes thinking differently is whatever supports their view, that is not democratic. What is Apple so afraid of, their customers having egad “choice”.

You are cherry picking the arguments. You do realize that crime still exists even though we have police right? But I guess lets just get rid of the police because its not 100%.

I and MANY others have stated the App Store has problems, but how EXACTLY does "opening up iOS" help these issues? Will it just magically go away and no malware EXCEPT on the App Store will exist EVER?

 

[Ethosik]

Apple have never used this feature

Uh yes they have. Try again please.

Apple rejected or removed 1M malicious apps from its App Store in 2020

New figures from the US tech giant shows the scale of fraud on the App Store. The California-based firm used 'sophisticated tech and human expertise' to protect consumers last year, it said.

www.dailymail.co.uk

These 17 iPhone apps have been removed from the Apple App Store for delivering malware

Researchers uncover malicious iPhone applications in Apple's official marketplace after apps bypassed security measures by hiding code behind a C&C server.

www.zdnet.com

15 malicious apps removed from Apple App Store employing Trojan malware

The applications were employing Trojan malware

gulfnews.com

 

[Sophisticatednut]

True... Apple should do a better job at eliminating bad apps from their App Store. Even though they curate their store... some bad apps still sneak through. Point taken.

But I don't think the solution is to allow app installs from completely un-curated websites.

The possibilities for abuse would be endless if someone could download any ol' app from a sketchy website.

Unfortunately it seems with the data we have from apple emails it’s little no difference

 

[Ethosik]

The security implications are overhyped (allowing sideloading does not mean allowing unsandboxed apps like on Mac/PC) but if third party stores take off there could be convenience implications. One app store is more convenient albeit less competitive than many. Ideally, sideloading would be a niche thing and apps would be forced to remain in the Store because that's where the users are. But in that case developers would go back to complaining about Apple.

Again, you do realize just because something is sandboxed doesn't mean it is 100% secure. I have had malware break through Sandboxes on PC many times.

 

[code-m]

Not understanding your point at all.
Nowhere did I state or allude to your claim.

You do realize malware is an evolving item? As Apple, Google, MS, and others close out one kind, shady characters find new and/or improved methods of creating, evolving, and disseminating it.

Sideloading has nothing to do with this as the App Store is a bigger and far more lucrative target.

I guess no one had heard of a “bug bounty”, am I right.

I guess the most recent iOS update only patched some major WebKit bug that was in the wild for some months, plus others.

 

[Ethosik]

How does this affect you in any way? Continue using the App Store if you want and the experience won’t change. For those that want to sideload, let them. Remember, Apple is just a company, not a religion, lol.

That argument does not last long when Epic wants their own store and WILL buy exclusivities. Seriously. The same argument over and over and over again. Yet when the App Store has NO apps, you will still be saying "continue using the App Store".

 

[Ethosik]

Unfortunately by apple’s own word. The App Store review process is equivalent to the TSA or wet paper

Apple Rejected Approximately 35% of Apps Submitted to App Store Between 2017 and 2019

The ongoing Epic Games v. Apple trial continues to provide insight into Apple's App Store processes, with documents today offering up details on...

www.macrumors.com

Some of those probably had malware intent.

 

[icanhazmac]

How does this affect you in any way? Continue using the App Store if you want and the experience won’t change. For those that want to sideload, let them. Remember, Apple is just a company, not a religion, lol.

LIES! Our user experience will change...

Apps will fall out of the Apple app store either by choice or purchased exclusivity forcing users to purchase from other stores, with other payment providers. Just like the MacOS store is today.

 

[Ethosik]

Too bad news headline article cannot be hidden based on personal preference after login. I am tired of seeing apple repeating the same bs points over and over.

And there are echo chambers lining up reinforcing those bs talking points. If sideloading is so bad, why Apple don’t lock down macOS like iOS does? Why Apple doesn’t just outright remove customisation to exert tighter control if locked down system is so secure? Isn’t that be great to have devices that looks, feels the same and can be used in the exact same way without much variation? How about managing all devices sold by Apple, through Apple server or sth, as if you don’t even own the hardware anymore? Wait, you don’t already? Nevermind then.

If Apple keeps repeating that lockdown safer bs, lockdown macOS first. I can’t wait to see next major release of macOS removing all advanced features (terminal, extensions, drivers etc etc) and dumb down like iOS does.

Because macOS doesn't do the one critical thing an iPhone does --- USE THE PHONE! That alone I think warrants iOS to have a higher bar for security than macOS. And yes, macOS being open is an issue, I have dealt with malware on macOS and even run anti-malware software just like on Windows.

 

[code-m]

True... Apple should do a better job at eliminating bad apps from their App Store. Even though they curate their store... some bad apps still sneak through. Point taken.

But I don't think the solution is to allow app installs from completely un-curated websites.

The possibilities for abuse would be endless if someone could download any ol' app from a sketchy website.

Windows malware comes to mind.

So if Michael Scrip can offer a competing iOS AppStore to the official and can profit while making it as secure if not better than the official would you be against it. I guess free market be shunned along with innovation. Maybe it would push Apple to have a better AppStore, nah most here just want to be fed “good enough”.