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Unfortunately it seems with the data we have from apple emails it’s little no difference
View attachment 1953516

Can you summarize that email?

I was simply saying that some bad apps do sneak through Apple's app review process. We know this.

But downloading apps from a sketchy website that has NO review is a recipe for disaster.

The next popular Candy Crush style game could be sideload-only and be full of identify-stealing code with nobody checking it.

Basically... yes the app store has faults... but the unchecked web is much worse.
 
Another issue with multiple stores......

New Phone, now you need to visit multiple stores to restore all of your purchases?
Sure. If you choose to install from outside the App Store, you can install from outside the App Store again. Most people wont bother, but the ones who do will appreciate the added freedom to use their device as they need.
 
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My point was the whole argument "You can still choose not the side load" is not 100% true, because Epic WILL do this and it WILL be very popular apps.
You already have this problem, developers don’t release games on iOS or even take years to ever make a Mac game. How is it Epics fault they pay developers bags of money to be on their store for a while but apple won’t? Seems like apple don’t want to put in the legwork

They have. Both on iOS and macOS.

If the device is connected to the internet, every time an application is run its signature is checked. Apple can (and has) revoked malicious applications in the past. I can't think of an example where they physically removed it, but they have disabled their execution. The process on macOS is trustd, which connects to ocsp.apple.com. When that sever got DDoS'd a year or two ago every internet connected Mac suddenly couldn't open any application.
On iOS and OS X they have never in the history of its existence ever erased an app from a users device. And even on the Mac apps without a signature can still be run.
 
I'm for the market deciding these things, not Congress. It would be like forcing property owners to rent space to merchants they may not want in their mall/shopping center. Imagine an adult toy popup store in a mall parking lot.

That said,
Apple could easily do this by creating on iOS/iPadOS this same panel that exists on macOS, with the App Store set to on by default.

Edit: Upon reflection the first part of what I wrote isn't an appropriate analogy. I just loathe the threats that Congress will do something because the Congress right now sucks.
Were there not recently security fixes released (such as https://perception-point.io/technic...-bypassing-macos-system-integrity-protection/) that bypassed SIP and other malware protections? Which means that even with ridiculous safeguards in place (that, for example, will not let you delete the Stocks app) there are still vulnerabilities that get by.

Just like TOU and TOS screens, you are being disingenuous if you think a significant number of mobile users (not under MDM controls) will do more than blindly click to dismiss. This extends far beyond the specific users, too. Phones store and have access to vastly more personal data, as well as contacts, and means of directly communicating with them.

Also, also: I do not understand how this does not apply to video game consoles and/or why they are not voicing opposition on the same grounds.

Is the AppStore perfect? No, but that does not mean the right thing to do is jump 10 steps backward.
 
Sure. If you choose to install from outside the App Store, you can install from outside the App Store again. Most people wont bother, but the ones who do will appreciate the added freedom to use their device as they need.
People need to stop thinking about only tomorrow. Take a look at the PC environment. Epic WILL create their own iOS store. Epic WILL purchase exclusivity on BIG popular apps.
 
Because macOS doesn't do the one critical thing an iPhone does --- USE THE PHONE! That alone I think warrants iOS to have a higher bar for security than macOS. And yes, macOS being open is an issue, I have dealt with malware on macOS and even run anti-malware software just like on Windows.
Not sure what questionable sites you are visiting or what attachments being opened or whatever you are downloading but I have been using macOS for over 25 years and never once been infected by whatever fear porn scenario you are pushing. Same with iOS been using it for over 12+ years and nothing even sideloaded apps from external stores.
 
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Because macOS doesn't do the one critical thing an iPhone does --- USE THE PHONE! That alone I think warrants iOS to have a higher bar for security than macOS. And yes, macOS being open is an issue, I have dealt with malware on macOS and even run anti-malware software just like on Windows.
What do you think the phone aspect of an iPhone does that requires all this extra security?

Also, what the hell were you installing that gave you malware? I’ve been using Macs since the 90s and never had malware issues ever.
 
People need to stop thinking about only tomorrow. Take a look at the PC environment. Epic WILL create their own iOS store. Epic WILL purchase exclusivity on BIG popular apps.
You have a problem with the free market and innovation. I don’t like Epic, but I believe let the market decide.
 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. It makes no sense to make up a rule that applies only to Apple.

If they are going to force one company to invest in researching and developing a platform, building services and a market, setting up checks and balances, and then re-engineering it to allow people to circumvent all that makes it both secure and profitable, then they’ll need to apply the same rules to all companies large and small.

The ruling would essentially allow anyone to install anything on other people's cars, TV’s, Xbox's, PlayStations, Nintendos, tractors… everything... and not just as a result of a user's actions. Think about auto-updates. After all, we're ultimately just talking about computers and their platforms/systems. Such a ruling to allow side-loading has implications across all hardware in all industries. Even in healthcare. Another example. Say a hospital doesn't want to pay the service fees for their MRI, and a competitor provides a cheaper interface, updates, and calibration. Obviously, GE will be required to provide an interface that allows side loading their competitors' features.

Such a ruling would demand that engineers invest time and resources to create systems to support loading of 3rd party apps and services, which circumvent, replace, and alter all sorts of user experiences and services. It's not even a stretch. It's just a platform. For example, farmers have been fighting John Deere for years now, and with such a ruling, they could be forced to build ways to open up their systems and allow farmers to alter, replace, and diagnose better. Does everyone win with such open systems? Maybe. Maybe not. Another would be gaming consoles. They'd better brace themselves for it. Gaming consoles would become nothing more than lightweight computers (they are, but) they also would be required to engineer the systems to facilitate circumventing/side-loading past the business models. Has anyone consulted with Nintendo, Sony, or Xbox teams about the impact it will have on their companies and platforms?

In short, we're talking about legislating how platforms and hardware should be developed, forcing some overhead to develop those systems to allow competitors to circumvent or change their behavior, sandboxed or not, it's legislation of engineering more open systems in all industries. Interesting idea indeed.
 
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What do you think the phone aspect of an iPhone does that requires all this extra security?

Also, what the hell were you installing that gave you malware? I’ve been using Macs since the 90s and never had malware issues ever.
Oh that lovely attitude of "I never get it so its not an issue". I am not the one doing it, I deal with it at work. Just like I have only had TWO malware infections on PC since Windows XP and BOTH were results of me mistyping the URL which caused a browser exploit to be used and my system was infected. Now, even if I know the website, I always google it to prevent mistyping.

I hear similar things on the Windows side as well "I have been using Windows since 3.1 and have never been infected"......good for you?! Doesn't mean Malware doesn't exist on Windows you know.
 
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You have a problem with the free market and innovation. I don’t like Epic, but I believe let the market decide.
The market did decide, all these people buying iPhones clearly love their device. Where is the CONSUMER outrage of App Store only? All we have EVER heard from is developers outside of Macrumors posts.
 
Because macOS doesn't do the one critical thing an iPhone does --- USE THE PHONE! That alone I think warrants iOS to have a higher bar for security than macOS. And yes, macOS being open is an issue, I have dealt with malware on macOS and even run anti-malware software just like on Windows.

Maybe you should reconsider your browsing habits.
 
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Were there not recently security fixes released (such as https://perception-point.io/technic...-bypassing-macos-system-integrity-protection/) that bypassed SIP and other malware protections? Which means that even with ridiculous safeguards in place (that, for example, will not let you delete the Stocks app) there are still vulnerabilities that get by.

Just like TOU and TOS screens, you are being disingenuous if you think a significant number of mobile users (not under MDM controls) will do more than blindly click to dismiss. This extends far beyond the specific users, too. Phones store and have access to vastly more personal data, as well as contacts, and means of directly communicating with them.

Also, also: I do not understand how this does not apply to video game consoles and/or why they are not voicing opposition on the same grounds.

Is the AppStore perfect? No, but that does not mean the right thing to do is jump 10 steps backward.
What’s with the doom and gloom scenario? What you don’t believe an open market would encourage Apple to improve its official product?

I guess in your opinion and Apple’s once the AppStore is open innovation is dead.
 
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People need to stop thinking about only tomorrow. Take a look at the PC environment. Epic WILL create their own iOS store. Epic WILL purchase exclusivity on BIG popular apps.
If Epic buy and pulls popular apps from the store, competitors will move in to fill the gap. The App Store is cutthroat, why are you acting like devs aren’t fighting like hell for marketshare?
 
Uh yes they have. Try again please.



If you read your own linked articles they clearly state apple removes apps from the APP STORE not from user devices, they have locked user accounts but never removed applications directly with their kill switch.
 
If Epic buy and pulls popular apps from the store, competitors will move in to fill the gap. The App Store is cutthroat, why are you acting like devs aren’t fighting like hell for marketshare?
What is the competitor for Facebook? That is the problem with big tech. Thank GOODNESS there is finally a VERY GOOD competitor to Photoshop with Affinity Photo.. But not all applications have comparable competitors.
 
So if Michael Scrip can offer a competing iOS AppStore to the official and can profit while making it as secure if not better than the official would you be against it. I guess free market be shunned along with innovation. Maybe it would push Apple to have a better AppStore, nah most here just want to be fed “good enough”.

If Apple is forced to allow sideloading or alternative app stores... I'm sure there will be some honest developers.

But there ARE bad developers out there... and they WILL make bad apps and bad app stores and put their apps on sketchy websites.

Bad developers get caught all the time trying to put scam apps in the App Store. Yes some still sneak though... but most are blocked.

So who's gonna block scam apps when they come from the developer's own scammy website? It'll be ripe for abuse.
 
If you read your own linked articles they clearly state apple removes apps from the APP STORE not from user devices, they have locked user accounts but never removed applications directly with their kill switch.
I never said they removed it from the DEVICE. But Apple cannot do this if the app is on the website somehackerwebsitelol. It will remain on that website and more and more people can still download it.
 
Oh that lovely attitude of "I never get it so its not an issue". I am not the one doing it, I deal with it at work. Just like I have only had TWO malware infections on PC since Windows XP and BOTH were results of me mistyping the URL which caused a browser exploit to be used and my system was infected. Now, even if I know the website, I always google it to prevent mistyping.

I hear similar things on the Windows side as well "I have been using Windows since 3.1 and have never been infected"......good for you?! Doesn't mean Malware doesn't exist on Windows you know.
I didn’t say it’s not a thing, I just asked how you got it. Read what I actually wrote, not the imaginary condescension you dreamed up to be offended about.
 
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@dk001 , @nebojsak would like you to support your claim with statistics…

I try to stay away from sources that owned / driven by antimalware companies.
Trying to find accurate sideload from Google is difficult at best. Especially current numbers that limit it to sideloading on cell phones excluding OEM stores and other non-cell devices..

That said:

Jailbreak (Source - Saurik)
What percentage of iPhones have been jailbroken (active users)? - 3.75 million or 0.4% of all iPhones sold worldwide.

Sideload (Source - )
I'll dig into this a bit more tomorrow ... the link I had is currently showing not available....
I will get back to you on this.

Update:
I am having issues finding hard and fast numbers for Google. Wonder if this is deliberate.
That said - from Samsung - not a number but is indicative. I'll keep looking.
"Is sideloading Android apps safe?

Sideloading is considered a security risk. Out of the box, Android phones don't allow it; Android blocks apps from unknown sources. “Unknown” is a vague term, but for most users it means any app store not preloaded as trusted by their phone manufacturer — which is usually a very small set
"
 
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Some of those probably had malware intent.
Absolutely, unfortunately still in their own papers they have a major fraud problem, one notorious case affecting 200+ million users that they publicly only said affected a few dozens.
 
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