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Sideloading Bill Would Allow 'Malware, Scams and Data-Exploitation to Proliferate,' Says Apple
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There is a setting to disable “in-app” purchases. It seems your educating is not complete.
I think a lot of it has to do with education. The majority of consumers don’t frequent tech sites like this, and they can barely navigate through phone settings when it comes to locating an iOS update. But I think if Tech Companies are willing to educate the ignorant, it at least spreads awareness. But ultimately, some people probably will just never care to understand either. It’s unfortunate, but it’s how it is.Fair point. If people don't do their research... they deserve to be scammed.
I just love when people say the App Store is full of scams... and their solution is for Apple to allow sideloading so 1,000 scammy websites can offer up malware.
Not the same people. And not sure why you are blaming my education for addiction problems. You can educate someone non stop about their drinking problems, but it sometimes doesn't help which is why AA exists.
While I appreciate the government trying to do its job to keep companies like Apple honest…I fear sometimes that they are meddling in matters they don’t really understand. Things that will eventually come back to bite us in the rear.
Tbh they could have moved to a unix based OS since Windows 8 and implement a Mac Rosetta style emulator for win32 kernel apps.
I definitely think this is "Apple is always right" approach. Then again, Apple's core zealot base has switched from pro Mac users in 90s and 00s, to casual phone/watch/accesories users. You don't see many of them on Mac specific topics.
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up. Apple is not always right. And in fact, a recent earlier post from mine outlines some of my personal must haves that Android does that iOS currently doesn't, or is just now starting to implement. So I only like iOS because its a walled garden environment. Nearly everything else Android does better.
Want more counters to your "apple is always right"? I hated how Apple handled the 2013 trash can Mac Pro. I hated the butterfly keyboards. I am not a fan of brining back HDMI and SD Card slot in their latest lineup. I have been very critical of Apple since 2010.
That’d be me. And I suspect you’re accurate in your assessment. But I don’t know if I would classify myself as ‘casual’ [Probably more ‘devoted’], I would also add in the MacBook and iPad as well to the dynamic. But you’re right, it is a totally different demographic of what it once was and what it is now.
I'm not targeting you specifically on that. There are members which posts I don't have to read, I know what they're writing on specific topic here. Shareholders or plain fanboys. Or both.
Thanks for clarifying. Its been a typical attitude on this forum where if you agree with one thing Apple does, you are labeled as "apple shill" or "apple is always right". I have hated many things Apple does.
How archaic. I make calls from my computer using Google Voice, use it for SMS two factor since it can't be hijacked as easily as with carrier #, tax, financials, banking, etc. more so than phone.
More likely you'll run into another iMessage string of characters that DoS the iPhone than some malware. Even if it that imaginary scenario happens just boot iPhone into safe mode and make the call. Seems like people who don't know how to use their device come up with the most imaginative worst case scenarios.
Side-loading makes that scenario many multiples of a chance of happening than remaining locked down. That is the point.
And I honestly don't have faith that iOS is as secure as it "appears" due to the walled garden. I firmly believe that without the walled garden, it will be targeted heavily and expose some bad security issues.
Just like I don't believe macOS is even as secure as Windows, because neither iOS or macOS have been targeted and battle hardened as others have.
Apple is first trying to educate the committee members, urging them to reject the bill.
It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.
When does this bill get voted on? Or how does this work?
almost every tech adept person I know (Working as a software engineer in redmond) uses apple products, and they all hope this fails or at least has some extreme restrictions IE, sideloading on an iPhone should flag the device as permanently insecure. Especially if they are talking about the level of access required to run their own stores or write their own interface layer apis.
People who talk about the sandbox and it’s magic ability to protect have absolutely no clue how isolation or virtualization work.
The entire risk here is using elevated permissions and an exploit to cross into the “secure” part of the device and read its memory and cache and such.
Say whatever you want, but sideloading is an attack vector. And it has more implications than just letting you pick your App Store.
It for example makes it extremely easy for someone to install software on another persons device that is absolutely malicious and would never be on the App Store with ease. Unless apple makes it super obvious when a side loaded app has been installed, it would be super easy to miss, especially with the App Library and the way you no longer need to have every app visible.
For example sideloading a tracking app could end up being as simple as scanning a QR code, and that is terrifying.
Are there downsides to closed systems and walled gardens? Absolutely, but for me and the people i know, it’s totally worth it. Also, people keep acting like iOS is a product like Windows. Please show me where you are buying iOS. At the end of the day it is not a product but part of a product, iPhones. Since when do we design products for companies? They can’t have monopolies on them, and are under no obligation to let ANYONE run apps on them. If apple wanted, they could just remove the App Store. And partner with the companies they chose to for first party pre installed apps.
They can‘t just declare closed operating systems as illegal because a minority wanna use iPhones like android phones. Are we gonna require cars to support app stores and sideloading? Thermostats? Printers? Fridges?
where is the line?
Thank you. I have pointed this out before. I had experiences of things breaking through a sandbox environment on PC
You can already side load on iOS so when has that happened? Zero. Compared to iMessage DoS? Tons.
Sure. I’m not sure how that will pan out. But the focal point of my post is, we still need public-consumer education on the issue, do we not? And a world of where people‘s privacy/financial is at risk every day, you need that avenue of pushing the understanding of what side-loading is and how it affects the unaware.Apple is first trying to educate the committee members, urging them to reject the bill.
Stop bringing up this argument. Let’s drop this bill and lawsuit if side loading already exists.
There is so much wrong in this post, we could be here all night going over it.
I'd like to correct it all, but it's literally nearly all wrong
Just shaking my head at what totally incorrect and bad information people somehow have gotten a hold of.
Yes... educate the masses.
How does Google do it? They've allowed sideloading for what... the last 13 years?
This is a strawman that **I** did not make, Apple made. They are saying that if you sideload apps, evil will happen.
The point is that Apple is not looking at the bigger picture. On principle, they should've blocked this on MacOS if this were true, and then I'd agree that "this is just what Apple does" and the 30% cut of all apps wouldn't be a factor in my arguments.
Apple, right now, knows that if they enforced this universally across all Apple products, they would lose revenue, because the power users would go away and they'd lose "the coolness".
But I'll do you one better: I don't understand the attitude that "if MacOS allows sideloading that it would allow Malware to proliferate". But wait, MacOS has and does, and there's still this line of "Macs just don't get viruses".
It comes with popularity. And with great popularity comes great revenue. That's the only real reason here.
As a member of the security community I absolutely abhor systems that attempt to obfuscate necessary security operations from users -- it is absolutely imperative to keep good practices top of mind and omnipresent because the moment they think "I don't have to worry about security on IOS" then it'll blow up. It will happen. As someone who owns an Android device and an Apple device and manage them in many MDM environments, I'll tell you that there's no massive proliferation of problems in the Android community -- this is FUD created by Apple, again designed to prevent people from looking over the wall and exiting the garden. I'm not arguing that this malware exists, but it exists about as much on Android as it does on Windows, and you don't see anyone dropping Windows because of "sideloading". You have good, sane, simple malware practices mixed with user education and actual security and there is no issue.
Apple is playing a smoke and mirrors game here and I'd respectfully remind people that iOS products and services (all in) that follow the app store lockdown here represent an easy ~75% of the total profits of Apple. Of course they're going to fight tooth and nail to keep it, be completely hypocritical on principles across their own platforms, and make you think that anything not going through their app store is cancer.
I completely disagree. The post is spot on. From my 20 years in software development to actual first hand experiences to sandboxes being broken.