Sign In With Apple Will Be Required for Apps That Offer Third-Party Sign-In Options

[rlhamil]

as he speaks to an auditorium filled with app developers..

The developers need to hear it, even if they don't want to; and push back on their own sales folks that enough is enough. If you can't make $$ without marketing user info, then charge a subscription, and offer enough value that people will be willing to pay it. Or wither away and die, if you can't or won't.

 

[az431]

This is a nice feature but I do worry that requiring it to be fully support this year is a little soon. Mostly because in the enterprise world things move slowly. It should be given a year from the date of full support (not beta) before it is required.

Did you see the part where it says that it’s in addition to existing third party sign in options?
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Yes, I saw that. My question was how will Apple enforce this requirement, if someone tries to do otherwise.

Like it always has. It doesn’t approve the app.
[doublepost=1559650394][/doublepost]

This needs to be said over and over and over until the media and then the public understand it. None of other major tech players are doing anything like this and as some of us may have noticed, it’s because Apple is not primarily an advertising company.

Everyone has noticed this. The difference between everyone else and you is that we don’t see how that makes any difference.

 

[Bin Cook]

The same way when I quit Facebook. I had to start over with my accounts that used Facebook login.

Spotify account with Facebook login? You need to create a new Spotify account, which means you lose all of your customizations and preferences. It was a pain but in the end, I'm no longer a part of Facebook!

Thanks, this is a concern.

 

[Tech198]

I like this, but Apple is only the presumption i think apps will ONLY let you sign in with Google/Faceook etc and also share login info.

Taking out of the equation, if users are concerned they can create an account to login with.

Sign in with Apple would take off, but only because Apple's boasted about how good their privacy is.

 

[Timemaster]

Did you see the part where it says that it’s in addition to existing third party sign in options?

Yes I did. Same answer as before. Ramming it down this year is an insanely tight deadline. I have no issue with it being require by say iOS 14 but requiring it pretty early on in iOS 13 is hard. There will be back end changes that some places will be required to do for it to work on the server side. Those take time hence why I was saying give it a lot more time.

My experinces has been in enterprise that the latest iOS is generally not heavy looked at until after Christmas holidays. Basic changes are made to work but a lot of the heavy lifting is done the following year.

It is as added requirement and it takes time and it all moves every slowly.

 

[MisterSavage]

Yes, that is still forcing. If I am a developer who only wants to let users authenticate with Facebook, Apple is telling me I cannot. And I cannot distribute an app without Apple's approval.

Of course they're forcing apps to change. There are all kind of restrictions that app developers must follow and this is another one.

 

[Alan Wynn]

How easy is it to untangle when you want to jump ship from Apple?

No need to stop using it even if you stop using Apple devices. iCloud email still works fine from non-Apple devices and is free. Would be better than using sign in with FaceBook or Twitter (as if you want to delete your accounts, you would lose the login), and about the same as sign in with Google (you can stop using gmail and google services for everything other than Sign On with no problem).

Just comparing leaving the ease of leaving the primary service, not the related privacy issues.

 

[lartola]

I love this...

However, I want them to also make random payment information that connects to a debit/credit card. I read about an app that does this... Would be great if Apple did it. Decoy email and payment method would be amazing.

Apple already did that: what you're asking for is exactly what Apple Pay does. The problem in both cases is the lack of adoption: not too many merchants have added Apple Pay on their websites and/or in their apps, and now the same may happen with devs and the new sign in with apple button.
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ApplePay does this already.

To clarify: Try using ApplePay at a store and look at the number on the receipt. It'll change every time.

To further clarify: The number printed on the receipt when using Apple Pay at a store -which is a device account number and is indeed different from the physical card number- won't change every time. It will remain the same as long as the device is active and functioning. I can confirm this with certainty after using Apple Pay regularly for three years. Furthermore, the device account number cannot be used to make payments without the actual device it was assigned to, so we're still more protected if someone ever managed hack a store terminal and get access to our device account number than if they got our real card number instead. Thus, it is indeed correct to say that with Apple Pay, Apple is already providing us with a way to send the merchants random payment info instead of real account info.

 

[Alan Wynn]

This is a nice feature but I do worry that requiring it to be fully support this year is a little soon. Mostly because in the enterprise world things move slowly. It should be given a year from the date of full support (not beta) before it is required.

What does the enterprise world have to do with App Store app developers? This is only a requirement for App Store apps that are updated after the deadline.

 

[Tom G.]

In my opinion this is one of the most important things that was announced during the WWDC Keynote. I love Apple’s dedication to my security.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

Using google photos does.

If your currently using google photos and want to leave your going have to export your photos individually.

Using gmail collects all your purchases into a separate folder that you can’t edit or delete. Just more examples of google data mining their users.


Android and google aren’t made for users that value thier privacy.

What? I left Android and use google photos on my iphone all the time. All my stuff is still there. So not aure what you are saying. Don’t understand the folder comment either. What folder can’t be deleted? What’s the name of it?

 

[MisterSavage]

Don’t understand the folder comment either. What folder can’t be deleted? What’s the name of it?

I'm not 100% certain but I think he's talking about this.

https://www.businessinsider.com/google-gmail-purchasing-history-list-what-you-buy-2019-5

 

[Timemaster]

What does the enterprise world have to do with App Store app developers? This is only a requirement for App Store apps that are updated after the deadline.

Sorry I am not talking about enterprise app dissolution but more in the sense of company.
For example Twitter would be enterprise level. Facebook is an enterprise level app.
Enterprise in the sense of "big business" app. The app you use your for you bank is an Enterprise app.

Enterprise is more about the group behind the app development not so much where the app is located. I have been doing professional iOS development for nearly 8 years now across multiple companies and I have seen trends that tend to be followed. One is companies move slowly to adopt new things. They care more about what works vs new and shinny. You do not risk your cash cow on something new. You take what works.
This means you let small single developer shops/ app take the risk in getting new stuff issues ironed out. Get basic knowledge on what really needs to be done.
it is a slow process.

Now in terms of new iOS the pattern is every September in the follow order

1. your first goal is to make sure the apps do not crash on the new release.
2. Handle issues from new OS release that might not work as intended
3. Iron out a few minor other issues

Once that is really done you are getting to November and new development stops. You are going in to holiday mode which means keep the lights on. The major work starts after the New Year when everyone gets back.
This Apple sign in can and more than likely will be a huge undertaking for a lot of places and will require massive overhauls user login and database tables because reality is a lot of times they were not done right early on so it is been bolted together over the years.
That is work is planned out and takes a long time to pull off. It is high risk so it is not something you do in the fall but more just start in the next year. You do not really go deep down the path during beta phase because enterprise cares about what works and not going to risk limited resources on beta.
Bigger companies will not even have the budget slated for until the following year. It takes time. Hence you need a full year from when you leave beta if you want it required.

 

[iWarnedYou]

I was wondering how they were gonna convince everyone to start adapting it, this is great

This is a strong arm tactic by Apple. It should be my choice as a developer. I should not be forced by Apple to use “Sign in with Apple” just because I’m using “Sign in with Google”! Shame on Apple!

 

[lartola]

This is a strong arm tactic by Apple. It should be my choice as a developer. I should not be forced by Apple to use “Sign in with Apple” just because I’m using “Sign in with Google”! Shame on Apple!

If they leave it as an option, most likely very very few devs would add “sign in with apple” to their app or website as is already the case with the “buy with apple pay” button for websites and apps, which is still extremely rare to find five years after launch (three for websites).

 

[MisterSavage]

If they leave it as an option, most likely very very few devs would add “sign in with apple” to their app or website as is already the case with the “buy with apple pay” button for websites and apps, which is still extremely rare to find five years after launch (three for websites).

It's getting better. Chik-fil-A and Panera Bread are huge companies and I use 'pay with apple pay' from their apps.

 

[iWarnedYou]

If they leave it as an option, most likely very very few devs would add “sign in with apple” to their app or website as is already the case with the “buy with apple pay” button for websites and apps, which is still extremely rare to find five years after launch (three for websites).

And for good reason very few would add sign in with Apple. It doesn’t look like it will work on android. At least not currently. Why would a developer waste their time adding an option that only works for one side of the mobile space?

But there’s another issue.

Let’s say for example I’ve developed an app that requires to interact with a Google service such as Google Drive. That would mean it’s required to sign in with Google. Does Apple still require this? If so, this app would never be able to be accepted because the app just doesn’t work if you were to sign in with Apple.

Very disappointed by Apple!

 

[lartola]

It's getting better. Chik-fil-A and Panera Bread are huge companies and I use 'pay with apple pay' from their apps.

Yeah in the US there are a few companies supporting it, but go to Europe and hardly a single merchant in all the more than 20 countries supporting apple pay accepts it in their app and/or on the web.

 

[MisterSavage]

Yeah in the US there are a few companies supporting it, but go to Europe and hardly a single merchant in all the more than 20 countries supporting apple pay accepts it in their app and/or on the web.

Yeah I hateeeeee the apps that make you enter credit card info to order food. Why on Earth would I do that when Apple Pay is built into the OS? I'm glad Apple is forcing people to use Apple Sign in if the app also supports Google/Facebook sign in.

 

[Abazigal]

And for good reason very few would add sign in with Apple. It doesn’t look like it will work on android. At least not currently. Why would a developer waste their time adding an option that only works for one side of the mobile space?

But there’s another issue.

Let’s say for example I’ve developed an app that requires to interact with a Google service such as Google Drive. That would mean it’s required to sign in with Google. Does Apple still require this? If so, this app would never be able to be accepted because the app just doesn’t work if you were to sign in with Apple.

Very disappointed by Apple!

They will if they want us to try out said service. I already don’t sign in with any social media account.

Once this “sign in with Apple” feature goes live, that’s really the only way I am going to sign in with any new service.

Developers can choose to either support this feature, or ignore it and lose me as a potential customer.

The choice is theirs.

 

[lartola]

Let’s say for example I’ve developed an app that requires to interact with a Google service such as Google Drive. That would mean it’s required to sign in with Google. Does Apple still require this? If so, this app would never be able to be accepted because the app just doesn’t work if you were to sign in with Apple. Very disappointed by Apple!

Apple only requires to have the sign in with apple button in addition to other 3rd party quick sign in buttons, not exclusively, so no problem. And if I’m not mistaken, the quick sign in buttons are usually offered for convenience on an app’s initial login page, not when you need to sign in to an external service such as google drive from within the app.
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Yeah I hateeeeee the apps that make you enter credit card info to order food. Why on Earth would I do that when Apple Pay is built into the OS? I'm glad Apple is forcing people to use Apple Sign in if the app also supports Google/Facebook sign in.

At least this one will be available globally from day one, since it doesn’t require participation or approval from a third party in each country.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

I'm not 100% certain but I think he's talking about this.

https://www.businessinsider.com/google-gmail-purchasing-history-list-what-you-buy-2019-5

Thank you! Appreciate the info!

 

[ignatius345]

This was my NUMBER ONE feature introduced today.

I'd put contact-only whitelisting for incoming phone calls just ahead of this, myself. I honestly can't believe Apple took this long to implement that.
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Two-factor is a different animal than OnePassword. OnePassword exists to support single-password sign-ins. Yes, it keeps those passwords securely hidden, but it's still a single password.

Not wholly true. 1Password now has support for two-factor authentication tokens as well. I just migrated all mine from Authenticator into 1Password, so in addition to autofilling username and password, it also will paste in the current 6-digit token.

 

[julesme]

Did you see the part where it says that it’s in addition to existing third party sign in options?
[doublepost=1559650305][/doublepost]

Like it always has. It doesn’t approve the app.
[doublepost=1559650394][/doublepost]

Everyone has noticed this. The difference between everyone else and you is that we don’t see how that makes any difference.

The way I would frame the difference is with the following example: Corporations are geared to maximize profit. Facebook and Google maximize profit by exploiting your personal data to sell to advertisers, sometimes deceptively*. Apple maximizes profit by selling you expensive hardware (not advertising), and part of Apple's pitch is that in return for paying a relatively expensive retail price, you are able to enjoy the benefit of a team of people working explicitly to find and offer better privacy solutions. The difference seems pretty obvious to me.

*An example of Google's deceptive targeting would be encouraging you to sign in to Maps for a "better experience" when the real objective is for advertisers to have a better experience (return on advertising spend).

 

[lartola]

The way I would frame the difference is with the following example: Corporations are geared to maximize profit. Facebook and Google maximize profit by exploiting your personal data to sell to advertisers, sometimes deceptively*. Apple maximizes profit by selling you expensive hardware (not advertising), and part of Apple's pitch is that in return for paying a relatively expensive retail price, you are able to enjoy the benefit of a team of people working explicitly to find and offer better privacy solutions. The difference seems pretty obvious to me.

*An example of Google's deceptive targeting would be encouraging you to sign in to Maps for a "better experience" when the real objective is for advertisers to have a better experience (return on advertising spend).

The problem with Apple's approach is that EVERYONE has the same right to privacy. However, by selling very expensive hardware, Apple heavily limits who can have privacy. In other words, privacy is now a luxury item rather than a right. But what else could we expect? in the capitalist world even staying alive is a luxury.