Simply Put, Too Much

[Feenician]

I agree with you on that issue, and remove those off topic comments when I see them, but cannot see them all. If you run across a comment like that, particularly in a news thread, please report it.

I appreciate that. I’ll definitely report the ones that aren’t related to the topic of the thread.

On the topic of the thread: Here’s the trap I think a lot of us fall into. As many noted above the signal to noise ratio with discussion vs plain snark seems completely off-kilter. The problem, I think, is that the snark often technically doesn’t break any codified rule, or at least skirts them. I accept that it’s unreasonable to expect the mods to be the “tone police”. It makes the news section a slog to read and nearly impossible to make any balanced or positive comment it knowing it will be met with derision.



Some of us go on the defensive and at that point and simply by contradicting posts/posters that are like that we risk being both “off-topic” and posting to “intentionally anger”, breaking actual rules of the board. The system as it stands is a near perfect substrate for the snarky troll to flourish in and I only see it getting worse, unfortunately.

 

[MBAir2010]

why do users nowadays post their resolvable personal apple problem that can be easily solved just by searching online, then belittle every comment that they deem unworthy?

I got banned a few years ago and groveled to be let back in. I promised to be good and I have been, more or less. The biggest thing that made that easier was simply spending less time here. And it's been fine. The less time you spend here, the less sucked in you get and the less sucked in you are, the less likely you'll get hot and bothered and post something deemed inappropriate, rightfully or otherwise. AND the less you'll notice or care about the trolls/snarks/haters and the moderation.

oh how i would love to see your posts!

 

[VulchR]

Having had parts of a post deleted by the mods recently, I have to admit I was taken aback. However, in general I think the mods do an excellent job, and each time they have deleted or edited one of my posts the reason was fair enough and they did not seem to overreact. Having to referee PRSI cannot be easy, not can moderating discussions on the merits of Apple versus other companies, so I think the mods should be given the benefit of the doubt. Besides MR Users are guests here, so we must abide by MR's rules.

All I can say about the stuff I write that got deleted was they seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[ericgtr12]

The way I see it is that as long as you choose to post in there and state your opinion, you will eventually be treated with heavy moderation. Cool in kindergarten but on a message board where the discussion is never really THAT heated it's a bit insulting. So I've chosen not to take part any longer and it's no longer an issue, simple as that.

Besides, I'm sure all those I debated with in there totally miss my bias opinions now!

 

[S.B.G]

Statistically, the iPhone forum is far worse than PRSI when it comes to problems that require moderator intervention.

 

[Digital Skunk]

unfortunate to see a long time member go. these forums are not what they once were.

I hear you there and agree. I haven't been on the forums nearly as much as I used to and for the same reasons as the OP. Most of the time, a blatantly racist member or post will stick around for days or weeks. Meanwhile, asking a question would you get you dumped in timeout.

Also, there were a lot of great forum members that have left and been banned and the forums discussions just haven't been the same

 

[bpeeps]

To whom it matters, I do believe I’m done. After my most recent time out, I just don’t think it’s worth my angst to be a member of this community any longer. I won’t go into the details of the moderation, so don’t ask. This has been a great place to get help & advice and return the favor for others for me for close to 10 years and 10,000 posts now.

However, it’s just not worth enduring the mods’ inconsistency any longer. While I do appreciate the hard work of most of the MRF staff and volunteers, the implementation and interpretation of forum rules is simply too maddeningly arbitrary as of late.

To witness (outside of PRSI) what baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming, and off-topic comments are acceptable while others much more benign and vague are deemed timeout worthy is at best cringe and at worst agenda-driven and targeted censorship.

Your house, your rules though. I may lurk, and I may not, but I wish you all the best.

Adieu, y’all.

Yep. I used to be a big contributor to the forums here as well and now I only lurk during big Apple events. The negative community, hateful comments, and the terribly inconsistent moderation I’ve mentioned to the mods and in posts in forum feedback is why I stopped coming here. It’s just not worth it anymore. The Apple and iPhone subs over at Reddit have much better moderation and a more positive community. You won’t see racists and homophobes running around freely. Come on over, if you’re not already there.

 

[bopajuice]

I’ll just add my two cents here. I’ve been a member of MacRumors for 14 years now and I have never seen the comment section more ugly and negative. A good 80% of the comments are snark and trolling. It’s obvious that MacRumors has become a safe haven for Apple haters and the disgruntled. Take this morning’s article about the new Mac commercials as an example. The snark and negativity was immediate. There is a segment of the population that comes here to trash anything and everything Apple does and those who dare to confront them are given timeouts or banning. I can understand direct personal attacks not being tolerated but attacking the ideas and concepts of the trolls and disgruntled should be fare game. MacRumors has gained a reputation in the Apple centric universe of being THE place for spewing venom and vitriol about the company.

As a result I too am considering leaving for good. I can get the same basic Apple news from several other sources without all the constant negativity one finds here.

There are a lot of people who are frustrated. Unfortunately it comes out in many different ways. Apple is not the company it used to be. In all fairness ask yourself why you came here to begin with, and is it still the same company that attracted you in the first place?
[doublepost=1530498863][/doublepost]

To whom it matters, I do believe I’m done. After my most recent time out, I just don’t think it’s worth my angst to be a member of this community any longer. I won’t go into the details of the moderation, so don’t ask. This has been a great place to get help & advice and return the favor for others for me for close to 10 years and 10,000 posts now.

However, it’s just not worth enduring the mods’ inconsistency any longer. While I do appreciate the hard work of most of the MRF staff and volunteers, the implementation and interpretation of forum rules is simply too maddeningly arbitrary as of late.

To witness (outside of PRSI) what baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming, and off-topic comments are acceptable while others much more benign and vague are deemed timeout worthy is at best cringe and at worst agenda-driven and targeted censorship.

Your house, your rules though. I may lurk, and I may not, but I wish you all the best.

Adieu, y’all.

Best of luck to you. I am right behind you. I have had just about enough of this nonsense. There are many other Mac sites I can visit to get information. What did it for me was PRSI. The people there are vindictive, hateful, and aggressive. They basically go there to argue. I doubt many of them even one a Mac. No thanks. Time to move on.

For me it's not about affirmation. It's about having discussions, learning something new. being corrected if I am wrong. None of that lives here anymore. You will be attacked, criticized, put down and made fun of. The callous attitudes here have turned this site into a hate machine.

 

[decafjava]

There are a lot of people who are frustrated. Unfortunately it comes out in many different ways. Apple is not the company it used to be. In all fairness ask yourself why you came here to begin with, and is it still the same company that attracted you in the first place?
[doublepost=1530498863][/doublepost]

Best of luck to you. I am right behind you. I have had just about enough of this nonsense. There are many other Mac sites I can visit to get information. What did it for me was PRSI. The people there are vindictive, hateful, and aggressive. They basically go there to argue. I doubt many of them even one a Mac. No thanks. Time to move on.

For me it's not about affirmation. It's about having discussions, learning something new. being corrected if I am wrong. None of that lives here anymore. You will be attacked, criticized, put down and made fun of. The callous attitudes here have turned this site into a hate machine.

Sorry you feel this way, but you don't have to visit PRSI - you did know that right? Although I agree many of the other forums are getting bad for the most part I still feel my time here is well spent.

 

[dfs]

To whom it matters, I do believe I’m done. After my most recent time out, I just don’t think it’s worth my angst to be a member of this community any longer. I won’t go into the details of the moderation, so don’t ask. This has been a great place to get help & advice and return the favor for others for me for close to 10 years and 10,000 posts now.

However, it’s just not worth enduring the mods’ inconsistency any longer. While I do appreciate the hard work of most of the MRF staff and volunteers, the implementation and interpretation of forum rules is simply too maddeningly arbitrary as of late.

To witness (outside of PRSI) what baiting, trolling, name-calling, flaming, and off-topic comments are acceptable while others much more benign and vague are deemed timeout worthy is at best cringe and at worst agenda-driven and targeted censorship.

Your house, your rules though. I may lurk, and I may not, but I wish you all the best.

Adieu, y’all.

I wonder if any MU staffers read this string. I hope they do, I hope they learn from it, and I hope they stand back and take a good hard look at themselves. Then they ought to post, in a prominent place, a clear statement of their moderation policies. Then they ought to scrupulously stick to those policies. Is that too much to ask?

Like everybody else, they live or die by the number of eyeballs they can attract, and anything which drives away good and reasonable visitors (such as this gentleman very obviously is) is an example of self-foot-shoot. From the moderate way he writes, it is obvious that MU is losing a good and decent man, not a troll, or somebody with an axe to grind. MU can ill afford to lose long-time fans like him.

So read, think harder, and get educated, staffers. Could it some of your moderators are themselves loose cannons who are inflicting damage on this great site?

 

[S.B.G]

I wonder if any MU staffers read this string. I hope they do, I hope they learn from it, and I hope they stand back and take a good hard look at themselves. Then they ought to post, in a prominent place, a clear statement of their moderation policies. Then they ought to scrupulously stick to those policies. Is that too much to ask?

Like everybody else, they live or die by the number of eyeballs they can attract, and anything which drives away good and reasonable visitors (such as this gentleman very obviously is) is an example of self-foot-shoot. From the moderate way he writes, it is obvious that MU is losing a good and decent man, not a troll, or somebody with an axe to grind. MU can ill afford to lose long-time fans like him.

So read, think harder, and get educated, staffers. Could it some of your moderators are themselves loose cannons who are inflicting damage on this great site?

The rules and policies are extensive and quite clear and readily available for all of us to see and read. Additionally, we agree to abide by them when we accept the registration agreement. These are easily found in the main menu at the top of the page under Support and General FAQ.

I guarantee you that there are no "loose cannons" in the staff here. There was one person years ago who went off the rails and they were promptly banned right away and allowed to come back later only as a regular user, never to be a staff member again. The staff here run a tight ship and police themselves very well.

 

[GGJstudios]

I wonder if any MU staffers read this string.

Yes, they do, as they have stated repeatedly.

Then they ought to post, in a prominent place, a clear statement of their moderation policies.

That has already been done years ago. Have you read it?

Then they ought to scrupulously stick to those policies.

They do. The moderators align their actions with the publicly stated forum rules, which sadly, many members don't take the time to read. While I've disagreed with some moderator decisions, the disconnect usually appears to stem from a member's interpretation of the rules differing from the moderator's understanding of the rules. When there's doubt about an issue, the moderation team compares notes and is willing to reverse a decision, if needed.

When I said earlier that MR isn't what it used to be, the vast majority of the reason lies with the attitudes and actions of the members, more so than that of the moderation team. The overall tone of the forum has changed dramatically from when I first started, and is one of the reasons why I'm not compelled to participate at the level I used to. From my point of view, the forum is an informative place to visit, but no longer a fun place.

 

[bopajuice]

Sorry you feel this way, but you don't have to visit PRSI - you did know that right? Although I agree many of the other forums are getting bad for the most part I still feel my time here is well spent.

Actually I didn't know that until recently. My problem is when I visit Mac Rumors I start by going to recent posts. When I come across a ridiculous title in PRSI I cant help myself but to visit the thread and comment. I have since learned I can block PRSI altogether. I am considering it. Up until now I had a policy of not blocking anyone. Just because I don't agree with them does not mean I cant learn from them. But some of the comments on PRSI are solely designed to incite others.

 

[S.B.G]

My problem is when I visit Mac Rumors I start by going to recent posts. When I come across a ridiculous title in PRSI I cant help myself but to visit the thread and comment.

I have been attacked much worse than I dish out,

You've already shown what your problem is here and I made it bold it for you. You can't help yourself and you dish out violations of the rules. It doesn't matter what the other person said, it only matters what you say and your moderation is based on your own moderation history and the same goes for the other person. The same offense by two people can and usually do have a different moderation reaction simply based on their history.

The staff doesn't offer solutions or suggestions, they ban you.

The forum rules are full of solutions and suggestions on how to comport yourself here. Common sense should also do that as well. The system in place here is very generous in how they moderate problems. Users get the benefit of long-suffering and numerous reminders before they get banned. They could just as easily amend their policies to just ban anyone for their first offense if they wanted to. People who cause trouble here should be grateful that they get a long rope before they end up hanging themselves with it.

 

[bopajuice]

Sorry you feel this way, but you don't have to visit PRSI - you did know that right? Although I agree many of the other forums are getting bad for the most part I still feel my time here is well spent.

I agree and have since blocked PRSI. I must point out I did not know I could block an entire forum until recently. Up until now I have enjoyed learning about new products, discussing issues with current Apple hardware and software, offered some suggestions from time to time, and sometimes learn something new. Sometimes I feel some of the stuff I read on PRSI deserves a response. This usually leads to trouble for me.

Unfortunately PRSI and the moderation I have received from this site has pretty much let me know I am not welcome. Some of the things I have read and some of the responses I have received from other members should have warranted action from moderators. But nothing. It appears they respond if someone complains. I usually do not complain. I deal with the hateful posts and respond in kind. Their response leads me to believe people here say things that are hurtful and are meant to insult other members, but the difference is they can't deal with the criticism and they report YOU. The result is YOU get banned.

Nevertheless, I am still experiencing the wrath of the moderation team as we speak. It is interesting because one moderator says one thing to me and another says something different. Leads me to believe moderation is up to individual discretion. In my case I have already been warned not to direct my frustration at specific moderators on these forums.

I think PRSI is only damaging the image of Mac Rumors. Unfortunately for some reason it continues. I would venture to speculate that most of the problems Mac Rumors has with forum members on this site is related to PRSI. I have read even some moderators do not view PRSI in a favorable light. It's their party nothing I can do about it.
[doublepost=1530845613][/doublepost]

You've already shown what your problem is here and I made it bold it for you. You can't help yourself and you dish out violations of the rules. It doesn't matter what the other person said, it only matters what you say and your moderation is based on your own moderation history and the same goes for the other person. The same offense by two people can and usually do have a different moderation reaction simply based on their history.


The forum rules are full of solutions and suggestions on how to comport yourself here. Common sense should also do that as well. The system in place here is very generous in how they moderate problems. Users get the benefit of long-suffering and numerous reminders before they get banned. They could just as easily amend their policies to just ban anyone for their first offense if they wanted to. People who cause trouble here should be grateful that they get a long rope before they end up hanging themselves with it.

Sure the forum rules are full of suggestions, but do you spend any amount of time on PRSI? Some of the comments and discussions there are beyond explanation. I agree it is my choice to visit PRSI. I do not have to visit the forum but when I review the recent posts section in the main forum, it is littered with ridiculous political rhetoric. It should be separated from the main forums. I click on the thread to find out what the discussion is about and find it insulting yet childish at the same time. I post a response and move on. It appears if the response I post insults someone who is biased, they report me and I get banned.

I enjoy reading about Apple products, issues with the products, and speculation about what is coming next. In my opinion politics has no place here.

Again it is my choice to respond to PRSI but it is also my choice to stand up for what I feel is right and speak up. My responses to posts on PRSI is no worse than anyone else. But it appears I am the one who get's suspended. I suspect because other users don't like decent they report me.

 

[trifid]

I'm not sure where you guys are going for discussions, but this is a great Mac community, I've seen far worse places with far more toxicity, far more issues with mods and MR is pretty great (with the exception to PRSI). And I appreciate that mods aren't over-moderating in general and hope that it stays that way.

And if you are bothered by Apple negativity, blame Apple, not the users. The last thing Apple needs is cheerleading.

 

[I7guy]

I'm not sure where you guys are going for discussions, but this is a great Mac community, I've seen far worse places with far more toxicity, far more issues with mods and MR is pretty great (with the exception to PRSI). And I appreciate that mods aren't over-moderating in general and hope that it stays that way.

And if you are bothered by Apple negativity, blame Apple, not the users. The last thing Apple needs is cheerleading.

Post your experience good or bad. Negativity is not apples fault though. It's a choice, just like praise.

 

[maflynn]

Negativity is not apples fault though

I think in a number of cases Apple can be cited for causing negatively, there's a number of defects that apple products have that consumers had to pay to repair or deal with for years and in those cases I blame apple for the negativity because if handled better there wouldn't be any, or at least less of it.

Consider how Apple handled the repair program for the 2011 MBP - their solution is repair it with a defective GPU, guaranteeing that the consumer will face the situation again. Or telling consumers we're holding the phone the wrong way, or knowing full well the iPhone 6 is can bend so much easier but blaming the consumer. I'm not down on Apple but providing examples that they can and should be blamed for negativity in some cases.

 

[I7guy]

I think in a number of cases Apple can be cited for causing negatively, there's a number of defects that apple products have that consumers had to pay to repair or deal with for years and in those cases I blame apple for the negativity because if handled better there wouldn't be any, or at least less of it.

Consider how Apple handled the repair program for the 2011 MBP - their solution is repair it with a defective GPU, guaranteeing that the consumer will face the situation again. Or telling consumers we're holding the phone the wrong way, or knowing full well the iPhone 6 is can bend so much easier but blaming the consumer. I'm not down on Apple but providing examples that they can and should be blamed for negativity in some cases.

While I'm not familiar with the 2011 MBP, your point overall is well taken.

There are clearly things that apple did wrong in the past and should be criticized for. But I don't think that was my mindset when I wrote the reply.

I was thinking more the vitriolic hyperbole that I've read here over the course of time, of which some examples are (paraphrased):
- apple engages in planned obsolescence proof is they don't allow downgrades to previous IOS versions
- profits before customers
- Steve wouldn't have allowed this to happen
- Cook should stay out of politics
- Apple picks and chooses what causes they support but there are more needy causes as Apple could just end world hunger by donating all of it's cash
- Apple should lower it's prices and just give away their products

The bendability of the iphone 6 I can't comment on as I don't actually know anyone that has bent one including my son. I've only read about it online. The common meme of "you're holding it wrong", seemingly is not an issue, because it was during Steve Jobs' reign and he seemingly got(or gets) a pass in the court of public opinion.

I will say there are things, for example, such as the entire power management issue that could have been handled better although I don't think there was a malicious plan from apple on that.

 

[Feenician]

I think in a number of cases Apple can be cited for causing negatively, there's a number of defects that apple products have that consumers had to pay to repair or deal with for years and in those cases I blame apple for the negativity because if handled better there wouldn't be any, or at least less of it.

Consider how Apple handled the repair program for the 2011 MBP - their solution is repair it with a defective GPU, guaranteeing that the consumer will face the situation again. Or telling consumers we're holding the phone the wrong way, or knowing full well the iPhone 6 is can bend so much easier but blaming the consumer. I'm not down on Apple but providing examples that they can and should be blamed for negativity in some cases.

Well off course Apple are not beyond criticism and no-one should be prevented from doing so. Unlike some people in this thread I don’t think the problem is the moderators or the quality or consistency of the moderation. Clearly I’ve been on the wrong end of moderation too many times and sometimes suspended for things which others may not be. However, I cant complain about that. It’s both codified and expected human behavior that if the mods see yet another report about someone they’ve dealt with repeatedly there will be a weighted reaction to that. I’m not complaining about that and I take responsibility for breaking the rules. Period.

From my point of view where things have gone South is the large, and increasing, number of accounts/people who are only here to be negative. They don’t add to the discussion, because they are not discussing anything. They’re not here to discuss betas, you won’t find them requesting help, or giving help to anyone else. They are here to make negative posts. The same people, hammering on the same topics (some of which @I7guy touched on above) over and over. You don’t even need to read the posts really. Hit up any article in the news section, no matter what the topic, no matter where it’s a positive article, a negative article, a technical guide article, no matter what it is as soon as you see certain accounts you know 100% that’s its going to be crapping on someone or something, somehow. But, as long as it’s not directed at an individual poster, as long as it directed at the “sheep” in the general sense, it’s not really against the rules. Inevitably some people who are here to discuss things, both good and bad, will get drawn in to the wake. Yes, that is their responsibility but it is inevitable. The rules, as they stand, foster this negativity and honestly it just makes most of the New section barely readable to me at this point.

 

[Krayzkat]

Just back from a 5 day ban. Woo hoo!!!!!!!!

 

[Tubamajuba]

Well off course Apple are not beyond criticism and no-one should be prevented from doing so. Unlike some people in this thread I don’t think the problem is the moderators or the quality or consistency of the moderation. Clearly I’ve been on the wrong end of moderation too many times and sometimes suspended for things which others may not be. However, I cant complain about that. It’s both codified and expected human behavior that if the mods see yet another report about someone they’ve dealt with repeatedly there will be a weighted reaction to that. I’m not complaining about that and I take responsibility for breaking the rules. Period.

From my point of view where things have gone South is the large, and increasing, number of accounts/people who are only here to be negative. They don’t add to the discussion, because they are not discussing anything. They’re not here to discuss betas, you won’t find them requesting help, or giving help to anyone else. They are here to make negative posts. The same people, hammering on the same topics (some of which @I7guy touched on above) over and over. You don’t even need to read the posts really. Hit up any article in the news section, no matter what the topic, no matter where it’s a positive article, a negative article, a technical guide article, no matter what it is as soon as you see certain accounts you know 100% that’s its going to be crapping on someone or something, somehow. But, as long as it’s not directed at an individual poster, as long as it directed at the “sheep” in the general sense, it’s not really against the rules. Inevitably some people who are here to discuss things, both good and bad, will get drawn in to the wake. Yes, that is their responsibility but it is inevitable. The rules, as they stand, foster this negativity and honestly it just makes most of the New section barely readable to me at this point.

You nailed it, and that's why after seven years, I'm done with this place.

 

[I7guy]

You nailed it, and that's why after seven years, I'm done with this place.

I still think they are the best overall tech site. There are people who clearly fail the litmus test of civil speech. However the nastier the posts are, the harder they fall.

 

[MBAir2010]

Just back from a 5 day ban. Woo hoo!!!!!!!!

Who could ban such a cute kitty?

They ban humans here?

 

[Glockworkorange]

Sorry you feel this way, but you don't have to visit PRSI - you did know that right? Although I agree many of the other forums are getting bad for the most part I still feel my time here is well spent.

Sorry you feel this way, but you don't have to visit PRSI - you did know that right?

I think statements like this are what bothers the commenter. I feel the whole "you did know that right?" is belittling and condescending. I see it used in forums everywhere and perhaps people are not trying to be insulting--perhaps they are trying to be tongue in cheek; however, it comes off like you are calling the person an ignorant fool. Perhaps you are, perhaps you're not. But not a good look.