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SJ and Ryan Tate go at it via email at 2AM!
- Thread starter derekamoss
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You clearly don't have kids or you'd understand what it's like to have your kid constantly one click away from some of the most vile sewage imaginable. Were not talking about nudity here. This isn't Puritanism.
Yes its also available in safari. That doesn't mean we need to pollute the rest of the stream does it?
I have nothing against porn (I hope my mother is not reading this). I Support peoples right not to sell it. If 7-11 chooses not to put porn in their stores, that is fine. If the local Baptist church does not want to hand out copies of playboy to all the little children as they walk into Sunday School, I don't think anyone can force them.
I'm not sure I understand this response, perhaps I misunderstood it. I'm merely pointing some things out in regards to platform and targeted game development ( since there were many comments that appear to suggest a lack of knowledge in regards to where console games are actually created - that is; to the best of my knowledge. ) I do remember some time ago though, that iD Software used a NEXt system to develop doom or quake, can't remember which. They did spend quite a bit on it.
As for the "our rules, our hardware, our IDE", that has always been Apple's mantra, thus the reason OS X's eagerness to only run on Mac's, and the reason I don't know of anyone developing applications for OS X in Windows ( unless it's to develop tools that allow Windows games to run directx emulation in OS X - though, I stand to be corrected, I'm not aware of every project out there. ) Don't forget though, the hardware on modern Mac's, are nearly identical to their PC counterparts, thus the reason you can install Windows on a Mac ( bootcamp ). I'm not 100% positive about this either, it just seemed to me, there were a lot of "similar hardware devices" on Mac's, that I have seen in PC's.
The iPhone SDK targets accelerometer and multi-touch interfacing, that's fantastic, and surely a breath of fresh air for developers eager to try another way of interfacing their games and applications. However, I was using touch and tilt games before the iPhone came along, on a Pocket PC and Nintendo DS. It was Apple of course, that did it much better, they took it to the next logical level in both software and hardware engineering terms, as well as the level of integration. On the subject of tilt-sensors, I remember using a Tilt-Sensor game controller made by Microsoft for PC's back in the late 1990's, surprised I can remember that.
Apple can decide for themselves how people develop for their devices, it is their choice. I don't see a problem with that. As for Adobe, I have no idea about this made for Windows only club. I could be mistaken, but it looks as though all Adobe products run on both Windows PC's and Mac's, in fact; it looks like Adobe's .PDF's and .PSD's are more integrated into OS X than on a Windows PC. Preview in OS X opens .PDF's, in Windows, you need to download and install the Adobe Acrobat viewer. You cannot view .PSD thumbnails "native" in Windows, you have to use a third party thumbnail application or Adobe Bridge to do so. So maybe I missed something here.
I think the iLiver needs a new update. Steve is losing it. Just put flash on the iPhone already and quit your bitching.
*ultimate facepalm*
Never mind the fact that Objective-C and it's Cocoa APIs MVC approach to OOD are extremely elegant and self-documenting, but then again most people don't know that Java was massively influenced by ObjC and most of the key devs worked on NeXTStep.
I don't understand why some people are making such a big deal over Apples' "dictatorship." Every business makes decisions on what they will and will not sell to consumers... how is this any different?
Plus ---- I think it's obvious that whatever they're doing, is working. How many people own your phone/music player and software?
Plus ---- I think it's obvious that whatever they're doing, is working. How many people own your phone/music player and software?
I'm starting to think Steve brought up porn for the sole reason this thread has so many post, to distract from much more important arguments.
Back during the iPhone OS 4.0 Q&A when he was asked about why one couldn't install unsigned applications from outside the appstore (IE. Apps not subject to the app store approval process, which would be available through the internet and not the app store), Steve Jobs brought up that a porn store exist for the Android and he didn't want the iPhone to enter that territory. Now, anyone with braincells could see this was a simple dodge. If Steve's hypothetical scenario of a porn store being created came true, I would have to first visit a porn site on my computer, download a porn app, load it into iTunes, connect my iPhone/iPod and sync the app over. Does any of this really seem like a feat someone could accidentally accomplish without their knowledge? No? What about surfing the internet on my iPhone and accidentally clicking a banner ad bringing me to a porn site? Yes? Then how then in the hell is the inability to install apps outside of the app store protecting me from porn??????
So anyway, it seems to me yet again that Steve Jobs has used that big scary word to sideline the real questions. His defending of his children comes off sorta like this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
As for his new argument against a now apple approved adult section on the app store to protect the children? Its logistically irrelevant since it would be entirely possible to quarantine such a section from ever coming close to a child's eyes with a password protected section only available on accounts with a credit card attached to it that are age verified. That's of course assuming the parents actually are involved in their Child's life and wouldn't give them free access to use their credit cards as they please.
Note that I only said the children would be safe making his arguments irrelevant, not that there actually should be an adult section on the iTunes store. If he just said his objection to protect their image in the public or just straight up moral objectification, i'd be more than satisfied. Of course, the question on why they recently banned all sexual material on the appstore but gave a free pass to "well-established" brands such as playboy would question if they really do have problems with the stuff, but that is another issue.
Okay, so I think I've covered the purposefully chosen controversial issue of porn on the iPhone as much as I care to. I hope I've been able to appeal to some sense of reasoning and that we can all move on to the bigger overall problems of a company being held hostage to the will of a single CEO. One who non-chalantly imposes limitations on his devices and rather than letting the user-decide for themselves, decides for them. One who puts out the myth that all cross-platform developed apps would be crap and nixes them before conception instead of comparing them on a per app basis. If protecting the user-experience is truly what he wants, then wouldn't it make sense to review each app based upon it's performance period, not what code it was generated from?
Heck I think I should actually venture out a little further since here Apple is holding EVERYONE hostage. The magazine industry, all that work you've done in interactive mags on adobe air, you have to redo from the ground up in obj-c. The internet, all those videos you have in flash, you have to convert to HTML5. Did I mention that is HTML5 as I have chosen it to mean, since you know, it actually isn't finished yet? Publishers, you know those books your selling for way cheaper on Amazon than us because you gave them a deal and they take no profits from them? Well, I don't like it sooo, could you bitch to Amazon that they are selling them too cheap? Thanks. Oh yeah, Adobe, well your not so much a hostage since I fully intend to KILL YOU ALL KINDS OF DEAD.
So big Steve's defence of his companies attitude as of late? If you don't like it buy/develop for something else. They say you vote with your wallet, so monetize your right. I don't know what he expects us to do if they ever reach a full on monopoly status, or those who already rely upon Apple products in their everyday lives, but it's good to know he cares almost nothing about what we think.
Back during the iPhone OS 4.0 Q&A when he was asked about why one couldn't install unsigned applications from outside the appstore (IE. Apps not subject to the app store approval process, which would be available through the internet and not the app store), Steve Jobs brought up that a porn store exist for the Android and he didn't want the iPhone to enter that territory. Now, anyone with braincells could see this was a simple dodge. If Steve's hypothetical scenario of a porn store being created came true, I would have to first visit a porn site on my computer, download a porn app, load it into iTunes, connect my iPhone/iPod and sync the app over. Does any of this really seem like a feat someone could accidentally accomplish without their knowledge? No? What about surfing the internet on my iPhone and accidentally clicking a banner ad bringing me to a porn site? Yes? Then how then in the hell is the inability to install apps outside of the app store protecting me from porn??????
So anyway, it seems to me yet again that Steve Jobs has used that big scary word to sideline the real questions. His defending of his children comes off sorta like this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
As for his new argument against a now apple approved adult section on the app store to protect the children? Its logistically irrelevant since it would be entirely possible to quarantine such a section from ever coming close to a child's eyes with a password protected section only available on accounts with a credit card attached to it that are age verified. That's of course assuming the parents actually are involved in their Child's life and wouldn't give them free access to use their credit cards as they please.
Note that I only said the children would be safe making his arguments irrelevant, not that there actually should be an adult section on the iTunes store. If he just said his objection to protect their image in the public or just straight up moral objectification, i'd be more than satisfied. Of course, the question on why they recently banned all sexual material on the appstore but gave a free pass to "well-established" brands such as playboy would question if they really do have problems with the stuff, but that is another issue.
Okay, so I think I've covered the purposefully chosen controversial issue of porn on the iPhone as much as I care to. I hope I've been able to appeal to some sense of reasoning and that we can all move on to the bigger overall problems of a company being held hostage to the will of a single CEO. One who non-chalantly imposes limitations on his devices and rather than letting the user-decide for themselves, decides for them. One who puts out the myth that all cross-platform developed apps would be crap and nixes them before conception instead of comparing them on a per app basis. If protecting the user-experience is truly what he wants, then wouldn't it make sense to review each app based upon it's performance period, not what code it was generated from?
Heck I think I should actually venture out a little further since here Apple is holding EVERYONE hostage. The magazine industry, all that work you've done in interactive mags on adobe air, you have to redo from the ground up in obj-c. The internet, all those videos you have in flash, you have to convert to HTML5. Did I mention that is HTML5 as I have chosen it to mean, since you know, it actually isn't finished yet? Publishers, you know those books your selling for way cheaper on Amazon than us because you gave them a deal and they take no profits from them? Well, I don't like it sooo, could you bitch to Amazon that they are selling them too cheap? Thanks. Oh yeah, Adobe, well your not so much a hostage since I fully intend to KILL YOU ALL KINDS OF DEAD.
So big Steve's defence of his companies attitude as of late? If you don't like it buy/develop for something else. They say you vote with your wallet, so monetize your right. I don't know what he expects us to do if they ever reach a full on monopoly status, or those who already rely upon Apple products in their everyday lives, but it's good to know he cares almost nothing about what we think.
Ryan Tate was totally looking for a fight, its apparent in his first reply, but I don't think he expected to get owned so badly.
I don't support porn. Im with Jobs on that, and it actually made me VERY proud to be a mac fanboy. But we still have browsers... And people will get what they want if they want it bad enough.
Why do people freak out when a private company will or will not do something ? Its a PRIVATE company not GOVERNMENT.
Thats the great thing about capitalism mr. tate, you are allowed to buy elsewhere, see problem fixed you baby !
I don't support porn. Im with Jobs on that, and it actually made me VERY proud to be a mac fanboy. But we still have browsers... And people will get what they want if they want it bad enough.
Why do people freak out when a private company will or will not do something ? Its a PRIVATE company not GOVERNMENT.
Thats the great thing about capitalism mr. tate, you are allowed to buy elsewhere, see problem fixed you baby !
What do you mean of late? He knows and every man and his dog knows that Apple will never have a monoploy because we can all already see that Android will take the Microsoft Windows share of the mobile market because it's the OS that will be available on *all* the non-Apple manufactured hardware whose cheap crappy phones/tablets 90% of the people will buy from Chuck at the Buy More.
What Jobs is doing is what he would be forced to do anyway by the plethora of cheap competition with slim profit margins already starting to hit the market and will turn into a flood - take the premium high profit margin ground. Where he's always taken Apple. Only with the iPod has Apple ever enjoyed a long-term majority market share.
All this talk of Apple monopolies and dictatorships is just fantasyland. I'm pretty sure most of those railing about such a scenario in this and other threads will actually be amongst the first to willingly join the huddled masses of the Android 90% monopoly and loving it with big smiles on their faces at being part of the monopolistic Google dictatorship, oh look at all the Android apps you can get, only on this platform, iPhone OS sux because it's only got 5.5%, blah blah, just like what happened with Windows PCs.
ha ha you should never have ago a Steve Jobs he can demolish you all I cant take that Ryan Tate seriously, lol he cant even spell cocoa properly
you should never have ago a Steve Jobs he can demolish you all I cant take that Ryan Tate seriously, lol he cant even spell cocoa properlyI still can't get over the fact that everyone (edit.. not everyone some people) complains incessantly about what is allowed and not allowed..
While being from a social democratic country and believing in public health and education and the various freedoms that all humans should have access to.. but we are talking about luxury item.
You accept what it is that you are buying.. and deal with it or just don't buy it in the first place.
the good old car analogy.
If you buy a Honda/Ford/Ferrari and decide you want to "upgrade" the engine with a massive turbo because it doesn't go fast enough or cut off the roof because it isn't a convertible , you can, just like you can "jail break" most apple devices if you choose, no one is going to stop you, but they won't recommend and/or support it and possibly you will lose your warranty and future upgrades with-in the supported channels..
This isn't draconian, backwards or otherwise, its simply business. A business can choose to make and release a device which they must then support with in the law and that to be within that support system you must use it in a recommended way.
Sure, no every apple device does everything I would like it to, but they are getting quite close on many ways and appear to be listening in most cases to feature requests and implementing them.
While being from a social democratic country and believing in public health and education and the various freedoms that all humans should have access to.. but we are talking about luxury item.
You accept what it is that you are buying.. and deal with it or just don't buy it in the first place.
the good old car analogy.
If you buy a Honda/Ford/Ferrari and decide you want to "upgrade" the engine with a massive turbo because it doesn't go fast enough or cut off the roof because it isn't a convertible , you can, just like you can "jail break" most apple devices if you choose, no one is going to stop you, but they won't recommend and/or support it and possibly you will lose your warranty and future upgrades with-in the supported channels..
This isn't draconian, backwards or otherwise, its simply business. A business can choose to make and release a device which they must then support with in the law and that to be within that support system you must use it in a recommended way.
Sure, no every apple device does everything I would like it to, but they are getting quite close on many ways and appear to be listening in most cases to feature requests and implementing them.
ha ha
LOL
You rag on someone because they (more than likely) missed a key press, while typing out incomprehensible garbage like that? For real?
I have to say that Steve has created for the first time in all history a garden of pure ideology, where each user may bloom, secure from the pests of any contradictory true thoughts. Sure... and thanks Steve of 2010 for being the worst enemy of the Steve from 1984. Just add freedom from thinking different and you're all set. Oh, my mistake... Its already there. The garden of pure ideology seems to be blooming...
In all honesty Steve 2010's freedom has nothing to do with security, user experience or anything that normal human being relates with freedom. Its about brand positioning and market control. Lets look at the "Freedom from porn" as an example.
If Apple wanted to protect the end users from porn they would develop advanced web filter and parental control system to filter out the unwanted content. The fact remains; the only party Apple is protecting is their brand since porn is readily available from internet with or without Apple App store. Regarding the "freedom from battery trashing" argument, one could counter it with "freedom from self control". Apple has positioned iPad as a media consumption device and therefore they want to make sure the paid content is purchased from them and not from third party supplier. With blocking of cross platform development tools Steve is making it difficult for small developers to produce cost effective multi platform titles and therefore effectively hurting one of the groups that has fueled the growth of iPhone OS platform.
Oh, and Steve 2010's puppets, please don't reply. I saw your answer already in 1984:
"Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion."
In all honesty Steve 2010's freedom has nothing to do with security, user experience or anything that normal human being relates with freedom. Its about brand positioning and market control. Lets look at the "Freedom from porn" as an example.
If Apple wanted to protect the end users from porn they would develop advanced web filter and parental control system to filter out the unwanted content. The fact remains; the only party Apple is protecting is their brand since porn is readily available from internet with or without Apple App store. Regarding the "freedom from battery trashing" argument, one could counter it with "freedom from self control". Apple has positioned iPad as a media consumption device and therefore they want to make sure the paid content is purchased from them and not from third party supplier. With blocking of cross platform development tools Steve is making it difficult for small developers to produce cost effective multi platform titles and therefore effectively hurting one of the groups that has fueled the growth of iPhone OS platform.
Oh, and Steve 2010's puppets, please don't reply. I saw your answer already in 1984:
"Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion."