I went from a Macbook 12 to a Macbook Pro 15. Appreciate the ports and SD card reader. I no longer need to accessorise with adapters.
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Skylake CPUs for next MB. (merged)
- Thread starter dubydoo
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I went from a Macbook 12 to a Macbook Pro 15. Appreciate the ports and SD card reader. I no longer need to accessorise with adapters.
Tried that for two weeks, but the 15 rMBP was just too big for me, as a mobile system. If it would have beat out my iMac as a workstation, I would have been happy. But the iMac beat out the rMBP as a workstation, and the MB beats it as a mobile device. I made this decision because I'm comfortable with having two systems.
However, if I could only pick one system, it'd be the 15" rMBP hands-down.
However, if I could only pick one system, it'd be the 15" rMBP hands-down.
Cant remember last I used my 15" in anger for the same reasons, the 12" & 13" Retina`s are simply far more portable. the 15" operating temperature and footprint can and do make it a chore when traveling. I agree that if your limited to one Mac and require the strong performance the 15" is a good solution, however as with all portables it`s compromised.
Q-6
October 2013:
"We expect the unprecedented 12” model will boast both the portability of the 11” model, and productivity of the 13” model."
And you are right, Apple did stop selling the 17" because of weak sales. But they did it because the 15" could scale to the same resolution. I'm not wrong, I'm just speaking the logical technical points Apple had to make their decisions. You're right, 90% of customers are not buying based on resolution, but they play a very important role in how Apple streamlines their lineup.
The core M3 6y30 is now available with the Surface Pro 4 and Asus Zenbook. There is already cinebench r15 tests (CPU rendering power) and 3dmark benchmarks (GPU).
About what I've seen... that's what we can expect for the next MB Skylake version:
CPU: the M3 is a little bit less powerfull than the MBA13/14 but I think the M5 would be almost equal and the M7 higher.
//EDIT: here some geekbench 3 between Core M and i5-4260U (MBA 2014)
https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/search?q=M3+6y30
https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/search?q=i5-4260U
// They are almost the same
GPU: the M3 uses a HD 515 which in 3Dmark seems to be equal or a bit higher to the MBP 13 2015 Iris Pro so it's very nice!
Sources: http://bbs.saraba1st.com/2b/thread-1167200-1-1.html and http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmark-List.2436.0.html
Here some gaming benchmarks on the asus (note that they are being recorded with the iGPU so the actual frame rates should be higher in normal use)
About what I've seen... that's what we can expect for the next MB Skylake version:
CPU: the M3 is a little bit less powerfull than the MBA13/14 but I think the M5 would be almost equal and the M7 higher.
//EDIT: here some geekbench 3 between Core M and i5-4260U (MBA 2014)
https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/search?q=M3+6y30
https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/search?q=i5-4260U
// They are almost the same
GPU: the M3 uses a HD 515 which in 3Dmark seems to be equal or a bit higher to the MBP 13 2015 Iris Pro so it's very nice!
Sources: http://bbs.saraba1st.com/2b/thread-1167200-1-1.html and http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmark-List.2436.0.html
Here some gaming benchmarks on the asus (note that they are being recorded with the iGPU so the actual frame rates should be higher in normal use)
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You can only fit so much on a screen and still be practical.
Resolution does not replace a larger screen size.
You know the 12" rMB has a lower default resolution than the 13 MBA right? This (incorrect point) you're trying to make isn't even based on reality.
Same thing comparing the 17" to the 15".
Try using the max setting of 1200p that the 17" shows just fine on a 15" screen. It's barely usable. Most will leave the 15" at the default 1050p.
I think this is where one's eyes and personal preference come into play. We have two 1 ribs and I also have a 13 MBA that my work issues me. I'm the type pf person who immediately cranks resolution up to the highest resolution, as soon as I get a computer or device. With the smaller 12 rMB scaled to be the same resolution as my 13 MBA, rMB runs circles around the MBA, for my productivity. While the fonts are rendered physically smaller on the rMB, they are just much clearer to my eyes. Same number of windows and words on my little 12" retina screen is way easier to read than on the 13 MBA screen. I ca read faster and with less strain, though the physical screen is smaller.
But I still have very good eyes (hearing shot... LOL) and artifacts and pixelation bug me more than reading small fonts.
But that's just me. YMMV. And there is no right or wrong answer other than looking at the two systems side by side and playing with their respective scaling.
We also have a Mid 2012 11 MBA, which is no longer usable by me. It was fine plugged into an external display, but it just didn't have enough resolution for me, when I was on the road. I rolled with it for about a year and a half, until I handed it off to the woman. Once the keyboard started acting up, I asked her to look at a rMB. Needless to say, she never touch the MBA again. I still have to get the keyboard fixed on that thing....?
But I still have very good eyes (hearing shot... LOL) and artifacts and pixelation bug me more than reading small fonts.
But that's just me. YMMV. And there is no right or wrong answer other than looking at the two systems side by side and playing with their respective scaling.
We also have a Mid 2012 11 MBA, which is no longer usable by me. It was fine plugged into an external display, but it just didn't have enough resolution for me, when I was on the road. I rolled with it for about a year and a half, until I handed it off to the woman. Once the keyboard started acting up, I asked her to look at a rMB. Needless to say, she never touch the MBA again. I still have to get the keyboard fixed on that thing....?
I hear you about crisp text. That is important and part of "practical". But it does not mean you can fit more on the screen or that resolution alone makes up for lack of a larger screen size.
At least not by any real margin. Maybe a few percent. But not enough to replace what you could fit with an inch or two more screen. Which is what we're comparing.
What you can fit with 800p maxed res. at 12" compared to what you could fit with a 14" at either 1050p or maxed 1200p would be a huge difference.
You can actually increase the resolution higher than 800p. Out of the box, 1440x900 is an option, and you can increase it beyond that with the instructions here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/scale-1680x1050-on-rmb-without-an-app.1873910/
I usually run mine at 1584x990. The code for that is on page 5 of that thread.
It's uncomfortably quiet in here...
I'm thinking of maybe buying a rMB in the end of February while visiting the US, if and only if the Skylake model is out by then. What do we think of the odds? As far as I understand, the proper Skylake chipsets for the MacBook have been released by Intel already, is that correct?
I'm thinking of maybe buying a rMB in the end of February while visiting the US, if and only if the Skylake model is out by then. What do we think of the odds? As far as I understand, the proper Skylake chipsets for the MacBook have been released by Intel already, is that correct?
Quite high I would assume. I expect a late january - Early february launch.
Some Intel chips are not released until february.
Some Intel chips are not released until february.
Why is there an assumption that the RMB is getting Skylake?
The RMB already has an older/slower processor, it was designed that way for a bunch of reasons related to its purpose of 'size over performance', and the most significant one is differentiation from the Air. You need to think like a businessman here. The best way to sell both the Air and the RMB is to give each something the other doesn't have. If you give a Retina display and Skylake to the RMB and the Air then you've just made the RMB less special and you've made the Air more expensive.
The conversation needs to be which notebook is best sold by having Skylake, not which notebook will perform better. The RMB doesn't need to perform better. For what a typical traveling executive needs, the RMB is perfect as it is. From a sales perspective, it's the Air that needs Skylake, not the RMB.
BJ
That makes no sense. Skylake is a whole processor family, there isn't just one type of them... rMB uses Core M, Air uses -U series which is powerfull. So even if they update both the air will still be powerfull than the rMB (I think the air is going to be discontinued).
It's not about performance, but battery life, security updates inside the CPU instructions, thunderbolt 3, wi-gig, and other features which would benefit every kind of user.
Two things:
1. You need to put yourself in the position of a salesperson in an Apple Store and how you're talking to the typical customer. The more the features of the Air and RMB overlap, the harder it is to explain a reason to buy one over the other. I was in an Apple Store just yesterday, spent 15 minutes over by the notebook table, college age girl wanted the retina display, her father was skeptical, the salesperson was struggling to make a case for one over the other beyond size and the screen quality. The Air and the RMB need stronger differentiation, not more commonality.
2. It costs time and money for Apple to redesign the RMB to accommodate a new processor, and if the current model is selling beyond its financial plan there wouldn't be an incentive for Apple to update it so soon after release. And if they're releasing a new Air in the Spring they would be reluctant to steal its thunder by updating the RMB as well, not to mention the inventory transitions of two lines of notebooks simultaneously, it makes no financial sense to do either.
If Apple is intending to drop the Air and add a bigger screen size to the MacBook line, then the RMB would get Skylake. But if Apple is not ready to cut the Air out entirely and they want to remain true to the original marketing strategy then the Air would get the new processor but not receive the Retina display and the RMB would remain unchanged for another year or more. The RMB is a best-in-class niche product, it doesn't need a new processor to achieve it's goal. The Air is an outdated mass product. It needs help.
BJ
The Pro is a heavy desktop replacement that can occasionally be transported. The Air is an aging ultrabook.
BJ
So we can say that the rMBP has a better CPU-Cooling system and screen, and because of that it has a bigger and heavier design than the AIR right?
What is the difference of the Air with the rMB then?
Air has a better CPU-Cooling system and because of that it has bigger and heavier design than the rMB. But, there are more differences it also has more ports.
So if the CPU / Screen differenciation works for the rMBP and AIR... Why do you need to differenciate more the rMB from the AIR when there are already more diferences than the rMBP vs AIR?
...
I think eventually the rMB will drop its price to match the AIR, and the core M would be powerfull enough to ditch the AIR. Skylake core M is almost equals the 2015 Mac Air which should be enough for allmost everybody.
You're right - the Air is outdated. Even the name no longer makes sense. "Air" denotes its ultra-thin and lightweight design, but the MacBook is thinner and a bit lighter. And while the MBA still occupies the middle ground in terms of performance, storage, and connectivity, anyone who wants a Retina display, which likely accounts for a significant percentage of Apple laptop buyers these days, has to go for a Pro or MacBook.
I expect Apple to simplify its portable line by deleting the Air and perhaps offering more customization choices for the MacBook.
Logic would dictate this would be the course of action but the Air serves a purpose vs. the typical Windows notebook today which is size and price. The Pro is very heavy compared to the typical machine every middle-manager receives from their corporate IT department, the Air is priced well and is smaller, it's a good value-alternative to a Dell or HP in that regard.
I can see the Air line being simplified and the price falling further, the iPhone 5C of the MacBook world.
BJ
Again, you just don't get what the RMB is all about. No one cares about the horsepower with the RMB. It's all about the form factor and the style. So your logic of "add a fan and add some weight" and they're apples-to-apples is ludicrous. And thinking the RMB will come down in price? It's owners would prefer it get a little lighter while adding an extra inch to the screen and get more expensive in the process.
Stop trying to make the RMB into something it's not intended to be. It doesn't need Skylake. It's perfect for what it's designed for. It's not the jack-of-all trades workhorse, it's not the family minivan. It's the fun two-seater, it's the weekend convertible. We're not looking for a turbocharger; we're looking for two-tone leather interiors.
BJ
Agree with your post except for #2. Apple won't redesign the entire rMB just for a new processor; they'd only need to fiddle with the mother board (not sure what socket Skylake is using). That said, redesigning computer innards is what Apple does day in and day out; it's their wheelhouse. Their laptops have gotten upgraded every year at a minimum for ages. Sometimes those upgrades have come spaced apart by weeks or months; sometimes all at once.
Im stuck: the pro is more than I need but the rmb is less than I need in terms of processing power. I want more flash storage but don't think the price of the pro with storage is worth it, whereas the price for more storage with the rmb seems better. The MacBook is sexier for sure and the air feels like a tired old beater car that Apple just doesn't want to see go. I am all for Apple dropping the air, putting sky lake in a rmb and saying goodbye to my 2008 MacBook. Side note: anybody here have a 2008 MacBook that won't run a 4K video in photos? That's what is pushing me to update my computer.....
I'm in a similar situation, though in my case it's a 2011 MBA that I'd be replacing. As I said earlier, I expect that Apple will drop the Air. I disagree with boltjames' opinion about the Retina MacBook and Skylake - even if it's not intended to be a powerhouse laptop, it would be highly atypical for Apple not to periodically upgrade its processor as newer versions that provide more performance at similar or lesser power consumption become available.
I agree, upgrades are inevitable. I also do not believe Apple intentionally underpowered the machine I think it was more form factor+cost+power consumption = processor choice. I can't stomach saying: "this is my new MacBook, it's less powerful than the iPad pro...but I still think it's fast enough"
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