Slow boot

[h9826790]

I am talking about the slow boot issue on High Sierra. My fix is endorsed by Apple on their forum. It works for Macs with Apple SSDs, but don't know about the 3rd party SSDs though.

Your suggest should able to fix some slow boot, but that’s because if you didn’t assign a boot drive, the Mac may spend an extra 30s to search and locate the drive. The slow down should occur before the loading bar displayed.

The slow down here is about the loading bar hang for a period of time during boot. May I confirm that your slow down has this same symptom?

 

[shirogane]

My Boot drive is already assigned to Macintosh HD, but doing this fixed it in macOS High Sierra 10.13.1 and upgrading to 10.13.2 brought the slow boot back and I had to do this again and it fixed it again.

 

[zenith3000]

Ridiculous: 10.13.2 nothing changed ... however something new occurs while booting: Before the process stops for 30 seconds close to the middle, there is a little break before and the mouse appears for split of a second ...

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I guess the slow boot is only with APFS, because I run High Sierra on HSF+ formatted SSDs from OWC and have no problem.

 

[F1Mac]

I guess the slow boot is only with APFS, because I run High Sierra on HSF+ formatted SSDs from OWC and have no problem.

Interesting! I'm tempted to CCC my current installation, reformat my SSD and see how it goes.

 

[h9826790]

I guess the slow boot is only with APFS, because I run High Sierra on HSF+ formatted SSDs from OWC and have no problem.

I am pretty sure it’s a bug in APFS + TRIM combination.

 

[F1Mac]

If I put my 10.3.2 installation on a HFS+ formatted SSD, can I convert it later (when Apple fixes the boot issue) to APFS easily (such as Disk Utility+restart or something) or would that require booting in Recovery? Just curious.

 

[Marcopolo53]

Interesting! I'm tempted to CCC my current installation, reformat my SSD and see how it goes.

Very interesting CCC APFS High Sierra to HFS+ and then boot from CCC Cloned HFS+ and restore to internal SSD as HFS+. Do post results as I am very interested in doing the same but chicken.

 

[F1Mac]

Very interesting CCC APFS High Sierra to HFS+ and then boot from CCC Cloned HFS+ and restore to internal SSD as HFS+. Do post results as I am very interested in doing the same but chicken.

Cloning now...

 

[F1Mac]

......aaannd cloning back to my HFS+ formatted SSD. Had to find out about deleting an APFS container in Disk Utility, otherwise "erase" only gives you APFS options!

 

[Marcopolo53]

Found unmonitored APFS sub device then choose master drive with makers name and du erase

 

[F1Mac]

Well.............. it didn't change a thing. Boot with HFS+ is as slow as it was with APFS.

Oh and CCC didn't bother cloning my Recovery HD in the first place!!!! (the dialog didn't show up I thought it did it anyway). Now if I want my Recovery HD back, I have to do a clean install What a waste of time!!!

At this point I'd be happy to just go with El Capitan.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I am sorry to hear that. I have a MacPro 5,1 too and it boots from an OWC Neptune SSD with TRIM enabled and installed in a SATA II drive bay after the startup chime in 20 seconds. Perhaps it was slower the first time, but after that the boot time improved.
UPDATE
I checked it on my second MacPro, there High Sierra boots from an OWC PCI-SSD under HFS+ format with TRIM disabled in 20 seconds after the startup chime.
Of course, because both Macs have plenty of RAM and many harddisks installed too, I have to wait 10-15 seconds before I hear the startup chime. I have never formatted an SSD in APFS.

Perhaps a PRAM or SMC reset will solve your problem?

 

[h9826790]

Well.............. it didn't change a thing. Boot with HFS+ is as slow as it was with APFS.

Oh and CCC didn't bother cloning my Recovery HD in the first place!!!! (the dialog didn't show up I thought it did it anyway). Now if I want my Recovery HD back, I have to do a clean install What a waste of time!!!

At this point I'd be happy to just go with El Capitan.

Is there any other APFS partition in your system apart from the boot drive?

CCC should able to create recovery partition even now. The option is not there?

 

[F1Mac]

I am sorry to hear that. I have a MacPro 5,1 too and it boots from an OWC Neptune SSD with TRIM enabled and installed in a SATA II drive bay after the startup chime in 20 seconds. Perhaps it was slower the first time, but after that the boot time improved.
UPDATE
I checked it on my second MacPro, there High Sierra boots from an OWC PCI-SSD under HFS+ format with TRIM disabled in 20 seconds after the startup chime.
Of course, because both Macs have plenty of RAM and many harddisks installed too, I have to wait 10-15 seconds before I hear the startup chime. I have never formatted an SSD in APFS.

Perhaps a PRAM or SMC reset will solve your problem?

I don't think so there are numerous reports of slow boot times under high sierra. But I'll try it - thanks for the suggestion... I also have several disks and 40 GB of ram so it does take a few seconds before I hear the startup chime, but the problem of course is after the chime, with the progress bar hanging at +/- 75% for maybe 20+ seconds (I haven't calculated it) before finishing the startup sequence.


In my previous post I mentioned El Capitan, but I guess that's a no-go either as 2 of my internal drives are APFS. So that would be Sierra...

But before that, I will try the PRAM/SMC reset, who knows... And I found a little tool that apparently (re)builds a Recovery partition... I have so many audio plugins it would be a real pita to reinstall all this stuff from scratch.
[doublepost=1512764730][/doublepost]

Is there any other APFS partition in your system apart from the boot drive?

CCC should able to create recovery partition even now. The option is not there?

When I finished cloning my HS installation by to my SSD, I got the dialog for the Recovery HD, I clicked yes but it said there was no Recovery partition... The FIRST time I cloned my HS install (from my SSD to another HD), CCC didn't even ask about the Recovery HD.

...And yes, I have 4 internal drives: 2 are HFS+, and 2 are APFS.

 

[h9826790]

I don't think so there are numerous reports of slow boot times under high sierra. But I'll try it - thanks for the suggestion... I also have several disks and 40 GB of ram so it does take a few seconds before I hear the startup chime, but the problem of course is after the chime, with the progress bar hanging at +/- 75% for maybe 20+ seconds (I haven't calculated it) before finishing the startup sequence.


In my previous post I mentioned El Capitan, but I guess that's a no-go either as 2 of my internal drives are APFS. So that would be Sierra...

But before that, I will try the PRAM/SMC reset, who knows... And I found a little tool that apparently (re)builds a Recovery partition... I have so many audio plugins it would be a real pita to reinstall all this stuff from scratch.
[doublepost=1512764730][/doublepost]


When I finished cloning my HS installation by to my SSD, I got the dialog for the Recovery HD, I clicked yes but it said there was no Recovery partition... The FIRST time I cloned my HS install (from my SSD to another HD), CCC didn't even ask about the Recovery HD.

...And yes, I have 4 internal drives: 2 are HFS+, and 2 are APFS.

It seems the remaining APFS volume may be the problem. Can you try to pull them out (if feasible) and test if the boot time will back to normal?

 

[F1Mac]

It seems the remaining APFS volume may be the problem. Can you try to pull them out (if feasible) and test if the boot time will back to normal?

Yeah I can pull them out. I'll be back in a few minutes then...



(if that's the problem, I guess rolling back to Sierra could have no effect, as the APFS volumes could still get in the way)

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I guess the boot time of your Mac Pro is longer because you still have 2 APFS disks. I have none.

 

[F1Mac]

boot time (HFS+) with no APFS disk(s): +/- 45 secs
boot time (HFS+) with APFS disks: +/- 45 secs.

(from startup chime to login screen)


So again, no difference...... *sigh*

And now CCC tells me that it "cannot create a Recovery HD on this disk because it cannot find any suitable High Sierra source Recovery HD volumes or archives". Nice.

I'm just gonna clean install Sierra and that's it.

 

[h9826790]

boot time (HFS+) with no APFS disk(s): +/- 45 secs
boot time (HFS+) with APFS disks: +/- 45 secs.

(from startup chime to login screen)


So again, no difference...... *sigh*

And now CCC tells me that it "cannot create a Recovery HD on this disk because it cannot find any suitable High Sierra source Recovery HD volumes or archives". Nice.

I'm just gonna clean install Sierra and that's it.

May I know what's your boot time with TRIM disabled?

45s is not lightning fast, but may be consider normal in this case. The boot time on a cMP can vary a lot depends on the hardware (and software) installed.

e.g. In my case, around 37s is normal (spec as per my signature). If I enable TRIM to activate the bug, the boot time can exceed 2 minutes.

 

[F1Mac]

May I know what's your boot time with TRIM disabled?

mmmmkay
give me a sec...
[doublepost=1512768033][/doublepost]33 secs without trim from startup chime to login screen

 

[h9826790]

mmmmkay
give me a sec...
[doublepost=1512768033][/doublepost]33 secs without trim from startup chime to login screen

So, TRIM is still the problem. But TBH, from 33 to 45 is not that bad (if compare to my case). Once I turn one TRIM, my boot speed effectively fall back to HDD speed. (I really timed it. It's the same boot speed as my WD Red 8TB backup drive)

Before full re-installation, or go back to Sierra, may consider leave TRIM off as a temporary work around. Just run the OS installer once more (without delete / format anything), the installer may able to create the recovery partition.

I know TRIM can effectively reduce SSD ware, but if that cause extra issue, then leave it off may be better. At the end, it's not necessary, just better to have it. And for modern SSD, even without TRIM, should still able to last for more than 10 years (normal usage, of course).

 

[kelice]

After the latest update my 2017 iMac would crash after 2-3min. I did a clean install of High Sierra and now it starts in 15s again.

 

[F1Mac]

So, TRIM is still the problem. But TBH, from 33 to 45 is not that bad (if compare to my case). Once I turn one TRIM, my boot speed effectively fall back to HDD speed. (I really timed it. It's the same boot speed as my WD Red 8TB backup drive)

Before full re-installation, or go back to Sierra, may consider leave TRIM off as a temporary work around. Just run the OS installer once more (without delete / format anything), the installer may able to create the recovery partition.

I know TRIM can effectively reduce SSD ware, but if that cause extra issue, then leave it off may be better. At the end, it's not necessary, just better to have it. And for modern SSD, even without TRIM, should still able to last for more than 10 years (normal usage, of course).

Well I have decided to go back to Sierra for the time being. I was really fed up with these stupid installations, and APFS is giant pain in the butt when you want to go back to HFS+!... (Sierra can't delete the main container, you have to be in High Sierra to properly format an APFS drive to HFS+, i.e delete/erase the container otherwise Sierra will still see it as an "APFS Volume" regardless). The downside: took me a lot of time to do all this! But now, no more slow boot (with 6 external drives, 4 internal and 40 GB of RAM I'm now at 28 secs max), TRIM is enabled, apps launch 50% faster (such as Pro Tools), my Recovery HD is back, everything is up to date (well, except the OS ) and running perfectly. So before I reinstall High Sierra, this time I'm going to wait for Apple to fix things properly fixed and for Avid to officially support HS (which they're not for now). Besides, considering there's nothing in High Sierra that truly I need, I could also skip it completely.

 

[h9826790]

Well I have decided to go back to Sierra for the time being. I was really fed up with these stupid installations, and APFS is giant pain in the butt when you want to go back to HFS+!... (Sierra can't delete the main container, you have to be in High Sierra to properly format an APFS drive to HFS+, i.e delete/erase the container otherwise Sierra will still see it as an "APFS Volume" regardless). The downside: took me a lot of time to do all this! But now, no more slow boot (with 6 external drives, 4 internal and 40 GB of RAM I'm now at 28 secs max), TRIM is enabled, apps launch 50% faster (such as Pro Tools), my Recovery HD is back, everything is up to date (well, except the OS ) and running perfectly. So before I reinstall High Sierra, this time I'm going to wait for Apple to fix things properly fixed and for Avid to officially support HS (which they're not for now). Besides, considering there's nothing in High Sierra that truly I need, I could also skip it completely.

Thanks for the sharing. I suspect simply boot from a Linux LiveCD (e.g. GParted) should able to completely remove the APFS partition and re-format the SSD / HDD according.

I did think about go back to Sierra, I don't mind spend few hours to do that. However, my 1080Ti works so well in High Sierra, and I don't want to go back to an older OS that the driver may be not that perfect. Also, there were some other bugs happened on my cMP in Sierra Apple never fixed (I did submit the bug report, and work with them, but just no fix yet). That's the main reason why I upgrade to High Sierra once it available.

At this moment, disable TRIM alleviate the problem. So, I will stay at High Sierra. But I may go back to HFS+, in order to allow me to use bootcamp manager in Windows to boot back to MacOS.