Heh, that's funny. But the funnier part about that is how Windows 7 solves nothing. I have the RC on my Newer HP laptop for work, and it still runs WAY crappy compared to my older MBP I have.
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Snow Leopard=Windows
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Heh, that's funny. But the funnier part about that is how Windows 7 solves nothing. I have the RC on my Newer HP laptop for work, and it still runs WAY crappy compared to my older MBP I have.
I bought a Mac Mini G4 in late 2005. Tried to install Leopard on it two years later - it was so mindnumbingly slow that it couldn't even handle dock animations like magnification and bouncing... and don't get me started on stuff like the Genie effect.
I agree that Vista was a massive jump in system requirements, but that's a result of the outdated XP technology lingering for many more years than anyone had thought or planned. A more incremental approach would've softened the blow.
That's great, but honestly... any legacy support shootout between Apple and Microsoft would leave Apple seriously bruised and we all know it. XP was released in 2001 and extended support will continue until 2014. Let's see, 13 years ago Apple were still on MacOS 7, any chance of getting maintenance updates for it? My beige Performa could use some attention, optimized floppy drivers and such.
There are obvious downsides to Microsoft's passion for legacy support as well, but it's something they have to do in order to keep the millions of enterprise users happy. Anyone in charge of a massive enterprise network of Macs wouldn't get much sleep at night, something they depend on might get scrapped the next morning. Hey everyone, Steve Jobs just removed the keyboard in favor of air gestures, training begins at 8 AM sharp.
I agree with you there on that... But what I'm trying to say is that lately, Apple has had a better approach to legacy support. Am since the whole intel switch, I think they are doing a pretty damn good job.
And also, I guess only time will tell us what happens with the newer PowerPC legacy support.
No issues on the following systems that I've done (5 at home, one at work)
early Mac Mini Core Duo
Black MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz
Black MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz SR
MacBook Pro 2.33GHz
MacBook Pro 2.2GHz SR
MacBook Pro Unibody 2.66GHz
This is not to say that the OP isn't having problems or is dumb or incompetent. It's to say "hey, I've been successful, let's see what's different about your case"
early Mac Mini Core Duo
Black MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz
Black MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz SR
MacBook Pro 2.33GHz
MacBook Pro 2.2GHz SR
MacBook Pro Unibody 2.66GHz
This is not to say that the OP isn't having problems or is dumb or incompetent. It's to say "hey, I've been successful, let's see what's different about your case"
I have none of the numerous problems people are stating on these forums (although I did a clean install of 10.5 and then an install of 10.6 to ensure a completely clean start).
But I am highly disappointed as a consumer by what appeared to be a lot of empty promises.
I notice no difference whatsoever in speed - start-up and shut down take longer in my opinion. Mail, Finder etc. are no different.
The only difference I see is that the little wifi symbol makes pretty patterns when looking for a signal (although it STILL won't find my wifi if I turn it on AFTER I turn on the computer - very rubbish).
But I am highly disappointed as a consumer by what appeared to be a lot of empty promises.
I notice no difference whatsoever in speed - start-up and shut down take longer in my opinion. Mail, Finder etc. are no different.
The only difference I see is that the little wifi symbol makes pretty patterns when looking for a signal (although it STILL won't find my wifi if I turn it on AFTER I turn on the computer - very rubbish).
umm... while I understand your point to certain extent, your example is extremely flawed and inconsistent. 13 years ago (1996) Windows 95 was the current Microsoft OS. Any chance of getting maintenance updates for that? Or for that matter NT4, Windows 98, Windows ME or Windows 2000?
1) Really? How so? I have W7RC running on my 2 year old HP DV9700 and my 2009 iMac (via Bootcamp) and it runs great on both.
2) Geez, I'm relatively new to Macs but some of you guys are funny; how does trashing W7 make you feel better about the flawed OS update Apple just unleashed? Lots of folks (even on this forum) think W7 is the OS that Vista should have been but wasn't.
I've been reading a lot of these posts and I have to re-iterate what someone else said - The big advantage to Macs is supposed to be they "just work"; how does that jive with SL? I understand that Apple can't be responsible for 3rd party aps that break with SL but a lot of the complaints on these forums are about other Apple aps and/or components not working; the excuse is that "how can Apple test the OS on every configuration of hardware" but SL is ONLY for Intel based Macs, right? It seems to me that is a much smaller subset of machines than all Macs, I wouldn't expect so many machines to have so many problems.
The Mac fanboys (here and elsewhere) are relentless about what a POS Vista was/is but every MS OS needs to run on an almost unlimited number of hardware configurations (not even considereing software) and, after SP1, it's really not such a bad OS; apparently the 10.6.1 update for SL hasn't addressed many of the Apple based complaints (e.g. - I keep reading about Safari crashing with SL, even after .1 updates). I read about folks on these forums going back to Leopard (echoes of MS users going back to XP, which fueled so many of those humorous Mac TV commercials), and that's OK too; Leopard seems like a nice, solid OS, why 'upgrade' to a new OS if you aren't gaining anything and it causes you problems.
I'm sorry about this sounding like a rant but it's annoying that some of the posters feel like they need to drag down W7 to try and feel better about SL's shortcomings.
PS - I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit now......
Also, the long term support for XP is nothing to brag about. MS had to reluctantly make that concession to businesses as a result of the very poor commercial uptake of Vista (this is not a comment on the quality of the OS).
I'm actually writing this from XP now as our company has no firm plans to migrate to Vista or Windows 7 in the near future.
(this is a company with hundreds of thousands of workstations)
<quote>1. Crippled their OS by maintaining backwards compatibility with ancient software from the early 90's. This has kept the OS in the stone age with outdated registry and .dll libraries.</quote>
Maintaining backward compatibility is not a bad thing. MS has done it poorly, thought one might argue that they had to do it poorly since the original implementation was poor to begin with.
However, Sun has maintained backward compatibility for years now with Solaris. And they managed the migration to 64-bit a lot better.
Apple's solution of just throwing stuff out with out thinking about backward compatibility is not, IMO, optimal. And in some cases as much a pain as MS's keeping the old crud around.
Maintaining backward compatibility is not a bad thing. MS has done it poorly, thought one might argue that they had to do it poorly since the original implementation was poor to begin with.
However, Sun has maintained backward compatibility for years now with Solaris. And they managed the migration to 64-bit a lot better.
Apple's solution of just throwing stuff out with out thinking about backward compatibility is not, IMO, optimal. And in some cases as much a pain as MS's keeping the old crud around.
With out thinking about backward compatibility? Developers are told years in advance that certain API's and technologies will be expiring. And even after they do, support the prior OS version is available for several more years. If the developer is no longer supporting an app, you should not be relying upon it.
This entire thread is pathetic.
If you're looking for help with a problem, don't post here thinking people will treat you nicely after you bash the **** out of Apple's new OS. If you stopped by the Genius Bar, would you explain your problem as "screw apple, this operating system must be a piece of crap because it's running as slow as my old windows machine"?
Next time you post, why don't you clearly state the problem you're having as well as any variables that may have caused a problem. Whether your system is two days, two weeks, or two months old - that does not mean that it's exactly the same as out of the box. I'm sure there is software installed that may be incompatible, hardware you have hooked up, or old PrefPane installs that are driving the OS crazy. Did you update your firmware to the latest release? Was your drive corrupt?
Granted the install disc should "just work," there's a lot of user error that can still cause problems.
Many people are having a great experience in 10.6, yet you don't want to hear how they managed to get everything working properly.
I'm sure with the amount of developers testing SL, and the small number of Intel-based machines (really, it's not that big of a number), almost every system setup has probably gone through with this install. I'm also sure that Apple knows what it's doing. Snow Leopard isn't that big of a change (other than a few rewrites / optimizations) from the original Leopard code, so there shouldn't be many problems.
But for you, here is my detailed suggestion:
1. Check your updates / Utilites folder for a firmware upgrade. Read the instructions if you have one. If you do it right, there will be a box explaining so on your restart.
2. Download iBackup for free at MacUpdate.com and use an external to back up the settings and folders you'd like. Make sure you set where it's going at the top. I would not recommend copying Keychains or Applications. Stick to general settings (Mail, iTunes, Safari, etc.) and don't backup anything you can configure on your own. Make sure to backup the folders you are sure you'd want, like your Desktop, Music, Photos, Downloads, Documents, etc.
3. Write down the exact name of your home folder.
4. Put in the Snow Leopard disc, and shut down your computer.
5. Start up holding the C key until you see the spinning gear under the Apple logo. You will hear the DVD spinning and reading, but it might take a minute.
6. Choose Utilities from the top menu of the SL disc, and select Disc Utility. Chose your drive on the side, click the Erase tab, Security Options, and erase using a single pass of Zeros. This will take about 30m, but will insure a clean install.
7. Close the Disc Utility and install Snow Leopard.
8. After the install, Spotlight might slow down your computer because it's looking at your drive. Let it sit if this is the case.
9. Open nothing but Safari, and download iBackup again. Close Safari, install, and open your backup. Start the migration. Be aware that Spotlight will go insane afterwards with indexing, and be prepared to let it sit again.
10. On completion, open the programs that used your old settings - Mail, Safari, iTunes - and let them upgrade your settings.
11. Restart
12. Go to Disc Utility, in the Utilities folder, and Repair your disk permissions.
13. Check for updates, and install 10.6.1
14. Restart after it restarts
15. Repair disk permissions again
16. Check for software incompatibility / updates before you install the software you need. Install everything you'd like, and open the programs one by one. If you installed Apple software, update via Software Update after installtion - and before you open the app.
17. Restart
18. Repair Disk Permissions
19. Shut Down, and unplug everything from your computer for 1 minute.
20. Plug back in. Start up holding down Cmd+Option+P+R until the second chime.
21. Go to System Preferences and re-select 10.6.1 as your startup disc.
22. Restart and enjoy error free computing.
If you're looking for help with a problem, don't post here thinking people will treat you nicely after you bash the **** out of Apple's new OS. If you stopped by the Genius Bar, would you explain your problem as "screw apple, this operating system must be a piece of crap because it's running as slow as my old windows machine"?
Next time you post, why don't you clearly state the problem you're having as well as any variables that may have caused a problem. Whether your system is two days, two weeks, or two months old - that does not mean that it's exactly the same as out of the box. I'm sure there is software installed that may be incompatible, hardware you have hooked up, or old PrefPane installs that are driving the OS crazy. Did you update your firmware to the latest release? Was your drive corrupt?
Granted the install disc should "just work," there's a lot of user error that can still cause problems.
Many people are having a great experience in 10.6, yet you don't want to hear how they managed to get everything working properly.
I'm sure with the amount of developers testing SL, and the small number of Intel-based machines (really, it's not that big of a number), almost every system setup has probably gone through with this install. I'm also sure that Apple knows what it's doing. Snow Leopard isn't that big of a change (other than a few rewrites / optimizations) from the original Leopard code, so there shouldn't be many problems.
But for you, here is my detailed suggestion:
1. Check your updates / Utilites folder for a firmware upgrade. Read the instructions if you have one. If you do it right, there will be a box explaining so on your restart.
2. Download iBackup for free at MacUpdate.com and use an external to back up the settings and folders you'd like. Make sure you set where it's going at the top. I would not recommend copying Keychains or Applications. Stick to general settings (Mail, iTunes, Safari, etc.) and don't backup anything you can configure on your own. Make sure to backup the folders you are sure you'd want, like your Desktop, Music, Photos, Downloads, Documents, etc.
3. Write down the exact name of your home folder.
4. Put in the Snow Leopard disc, and shut down your computer.
5. Start up holding the C key until you see the spinning gear under the Apple logo. You will hear the DVD spinning and reading, but it might take a minute.
6. Choose Utilities from the top menu of the SL disc, and select Disc Utility. Chose your drive on the side, click the Erase tab, Security Options, and erase using a single pass of Zeros. This will take about 30m, but will insure a clean install.
7. Close the Disc Utility and install Snow Leopard.
8. After the install, Spotlight might slow down your computer because it's looking at your drive. Let it sit if this is the case.
9. Open nothing but Safari, and download iBackup again. Close Safari, install, and open your backup. Start the migration. Be aware that Spotlight will go insane afterwards with indexing, and be prepared to let it sit again.
10. On completion, open the programs that used your old settings - Mail, Safari, iTunes - and let them upgrade your settings.
11. Restart
12. Go to Disc Utility, in the Utilities folder, and Repair your disk permissions.
13. Check for updates, and install 10.6.1
14. Restart after it restarts
15. Repair disk permissions again
16. Check for software incompatibility / updates before you install the software you need. Install everything you'd like, and open the programs one by one. If you installed Apple software, update via Software Update after installtion - and before you open the app.
17. Restart
18. Repair Disk Permissions
19. Shut Down, and unplug everything from your computer for 1 minute.
20. Plug back in. Start up holding down Cmd+Option+P+R until the second chime.
21. Go to System Preferences and re-select 10.6.1 as your startup disc.
22. Restart and enjoy error free computing.
It is evident that Apple views the computer as an appliance that is optimized for home users with some enterprise support sprinkled in.
I would actually say that I have spent more time working around Windows Enterprise quirks.
Would you rather buy an OS from a company that is focused on making individual users happy or from one whose primary goal is to keep their huge corporate customers satisfied?
There's no question that MS has it all over Apple in the Enterprise. However, I don't see the Enterprise market as one that Apple is terribly interested in. They have added integrated Exchange support so that MBP owners don't have to go into Boot Camp to check their email and be reminded of their calendar appointments, which will probably win them even more converts as power users tire of the continued Enterprise squeeze on their productivity (spending more time booting and loading updates than working).
I'm using Pages '09 myself and am not suffering from it crashing. I'm not saying there isn't a problem it's only at the .x.1 stage at the moment and Leopard (and Tiger) were both pretty buggy at that stage.
I would argue that MS' backwards compatibility support (broken with x64 releases by the way) has been their undoing, and to be fair most stuff that ran on Windows 95 will not run on 7 or Vista very successfully.
Most of the issues with 3rd party software are to do with unauthorised hacks in the OS that developers were explicitly told not to use (Haxies). The reason they are told not to use them is because Apple publishes an approved API and anything that doesn't conform to it could be removed at any time as it is not supported.
I'm running plenty of third party software on my Mac, and every single application is working as it should.
I tend to agree with you on one aspect about this post. Windows 7. It is a huge leap forward. To be honest if 7 had come out a couple of years ago instead of Vista, I would not be a Mac owner now. Snow Leopard isn't perfect, neither is 7 btw.
Whilst there are a lot less Intel Macs around than variations on PCs, a lot of them are at differing maintenance levels. Some people I know are still on 10.4.6 with their original firmware, having never run software update. Others, like myself installed every single software and firmware update that came their way. In its own way the fact that any Beta tester whether they are a developer or a power user (bear in mind that only devs and power users would download the 7 Beta/RC and only devs were authorised to have Snow Leopard on pre release), is a disadvantage because they will only test with all firmware updates applied.
Then there are the issues with some third party hardware that may be plugged in and some kernel extensions to support the hardware or software. As with Windows, basic fault-finding can normally isolate the problem and lead to a reliable system. However most non power users don't understand this and will moan.
The correct approach is that power users should be the early adopters over enterprise and non power user consumers. Enterprise users should never be an early adopter because their systems are generally mission critical, so they like tried and trusted systems. Non power users are likely not to know what they need to do to update reliably until someone else has done it and produced a guide.
Unfortunately the Mac community has this tendancy to rush out and buy the latest OS as it hits the shelves (the opposite of Windows users, who will generally get their upgrade when they buy a new PC), and this leads to the issues the OP is having.
Wow, right from the DNC, "Doom and Gloom" playbook:
"You're gonna die of old age upgrading to Windows 7!"
You MacHeads crack me up.
LOL I agree there. Windows 7 took 45 minutes to upgrade. Strangely upgrading to Snow Leopard took the same time.
??
My HP 1012 works fine after installing 10.6 and 10.6.1. Is your printer connected directly to your computer or through an Airport Extreme/Airport Express? If you haven't tried this recently, run software update to get updated HP printer drivers, which were released late last week. Hope you get it working.
My HP 1012 works fine after installing 10.6 and 10.6.1. Is your printer connected directly to your computer or through an Airport Extreme/Airport Express? If you haven't tried this recently, run software update to get updated HP printer drivers, which were released late last week. Hope you get it working.
Have you tried to install old DOS programs in Windows XP? From my experience with old games, it rarely works as it should - if it can be made to work at all.
Don't we have this "THE SKY IS FALLING!" reaction with every major OS X upgrade, and then it goes away in a few weeks?
How long does a "suburb" battery's life run? The one in my MacBook is a rural model, and it has a life of six hours until you have to stick a piece of hay into the power slot.
Also, I find it kind of ridiculous that people apparently join this forum for the sole purpose of bashing Mac users and trolling all over legitimate concerns. If you don't like Macs, WHY DID YOU JOIN AN APPLE DISCUSSION FORUM? Seems to me like some people have a secret passion.