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So apparently Lion sucks?

hmmm....

a developer friend & I have the same MBP model...

2010 13" MacBookPro7,1

we each have the same config...60GB OWC SSD in main HD bay with the 320GB HD swapped into the optical drive bay. 4 gigs OEM RAM.

my machine gets me through 8 hours of class with 1/2 brightness, wireless on...typing..saving frequently, opening PDFs, etc. etc. Not an issue having around 30-50% power by the time I get home...depending, of course, on actual usage...sometimes I just turn the screen off for a while and listen to lecture..other times the screen is always on while I type notes, etc.

I borrowed his exact same MBP with Lion GM installed...and..with -exact- same usage habits..the battery died 3 hours into a 4 hour class :-(
We purchased our machines on the same occasion at the same Apple store in Portland OR.

I borrowed his machine, but this time ran SL on the HDD partition (I should have stated Lion is on the SSD partition and all the apps I used were on the SSD partition)...and got the same battery life I'm used to with SL...

Lion, for some reason, is a tremendous battery hog. Sorry for my non-technical input. Repeated attempts at using Lion in the way I am used to have resulted in..at best..3-4 hours of battery life..even dropping screen brightness down to 25%.

Anyone have any better experiences?

btw: I find the UI and flow-through extremely clunky. I've played around with settings, swipe options, etc..and, ugh. I'm neither a fan-boi, nor a hater. In fact, I typically love what Apple does..but, at the moment, the "flow" of Lion feels more like OS X when it first arrived on the scene.

pluses? Boot time is faster by about 2 seconds on an SSD (about 12 seconds from first power-up) and opening apps is trés snappy.

biggest minus? Where is my option to turn the damn keyboard feature off...I would rather have key-repeat than have the option for é ø, etc. built in.

edit: oh yes, may I also mention the accursed and -frequent- Firefox crashes? Not to mention various graphics glitches when scrolling in Firefox..though these are, thankfully, occasional.

also, maybe I'm missing a setting...but with SL I can have an external monitor hooked up...sleep the computer, and run only the external monitor..AND I can then lift up the lid on the MBP and have the MBP monitor remain asleep...

but under Lion I can only have the external monitor remain the sole monitor -if- the lid is closed. Opening the lid of the MBP (in 2 monitor configuration) immediately activates both monitors..which I find highly annoying. It is nice to be able to open the MBP "lid" in order to keep it cooler during certain times..such as CPU intensive tasks.
 
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i like Mission control, full screen apps and some of the newer gestures. I don't like the new finder side panel. other than that i barely notice any difference to SL tbh but i'm not really a power user. when it's officially released i'll definitely be paying the £20 it'll cost me to upgrade though
 
Soulstorm said:
I run OS X Lion GM in the machine you see in my signature. I have 2 Gigs of RAM, in an iMac model of 2006. I can tell you that it runs way better than Snow Leopard. I for one will make the switch to Lion the moment it is released.
Click to expand...

This is nice to hear for a base 11" MBA owner.

The battery issues...not so nice^^
 
A Web Developers Review of Lion

THE WORST RELEASE OF ALL TIME! Not only does everything take forever to run and load but also stuff goes missing when I code due to this annoying duplicate file saving crap which does not work as it erases my programming in BBEdit as I save and go back to find hours of programming is missing. Safari crashes almost daily and is sluggish, Mail crashes everytime it safes a draft of an email I'm writing through Gmail, and even in MobileMe as well, yes I tested your system too Apple which also told me that I will no longer have iDisk due to your iCloud nonsense. Same crapola as Microsoft! Many of my software programs do not work even Adobe Digitial Editions (epub reader) no longer works, so I guess your ebook sales will drop from iTunes… A $30 Fee for Lion will cost you $1,000's in new software. I also bought Lion Server to test to see if its worth upgrading my line of Snow Lepoard Servers at my data center and they removed all the advanced stuff one needs to run a real web server, Apple seems to be outsoucing their programmers these days, good thing I did not upgrade my line of servers… Point blank pb==> I am not happy Apple. You call this progress? I Call it worst then the Windows VISTA Erra!!!!! Did you hire Bill Gates to write this release or are you just a Communist demanding people use their machines how you see fit? Vista enabled me to switch to a Mac in the first place! Now seems your following the dreadful downfall of overpriced hardware that runs bug invested crap like Microsoft!!! Hmmm… Linux is starting to look Good and its free! Steve Jobs wants to push an iPad to our laptops? No thanks… Keep it... Apple just created a Microsoft Happymeal box with an Apple Logo Stamped on it! God Help Us!!! :confused:
 
Time for tux

Well here we are again.
Lion..Just like Leopards first go round.Junk
win 7 ..vista 2.0 with some code changes.Junk

Forced upgrades,forced beta testing.Forced upgrades due to browser functionality and compatibility.Content control- broken apps,for cripes sake enough is enough.

My friends I suggest we abandon the Intel cartel and embrace the power of the penguin.
I loved tiger and boot camp on my Macbook pro..and dare I say Xp before Microsoft broke it,even though it was an open screen door for Mal-ware.

Ubuntu has finally grown up and hardware support is better than ever.
Gimp shop- free, audio apps that are finally working- free,
video editing that now works-free.

I love Jobs -we all use computers thanx to him.
another Steve ..Ballmer from Microsoft and Comcast Cable Co. gives his cable workmen laptops with Ubuntu ,(go figure)
Why?..... the power of the penguin.

Lets put an end to their forced upgrades using the browser and other things as an excuse.
 
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Depends what you read...if you read all the old whiny people on here that are just unwilling to accept change...than you would think its the new Windows ME.

If you actually pay attention to people that use the OS as it's intended and don't just whine every time there is a slight change to their precious OS (they will make these same complaints when 10.8 comes out saying it's not like 10.7 so it sucks!)

The reality is:

Screen%252520Shot%2525202011-08-21%252520at%2525209.40.10%252520AM.png


Only a VERY small percentage of users are unhappy. And they all seem to congregate here to complain!
 
gentlefury said:
Depends what you read...if you read all the old whiny people on here that are just unwilling to accept change...than you would think its the new Windows ME.

If you actually pay attention to people that use the OS as it's intended and don't just whine every time there is a slight change to their precious OS (they will make these same complaints when 10.8 comes out saying it's not like 10.7 so it sucks!)

The reality is:

Image

Only a VERY small percentage of users are unhappy. And they all seem to congregate here to complain!
Click to expand...

not sure which store this is from, but I certainly wouldnt go by any of the ratings being put on the uk store (similar to above but not as many)

from looking, most of the reviews with 5 star are from the day it was released (with comments like "been waiting for this for ages")

the majority of recent reviews are very mixed (1 to 5 stars)
 
Yeah, those customer ratings mean so much. Thousands of them were posted before anyone even installed it. Try harder than a broken rating system to defend a bad OS. That's like saying the best singer wins American Idol every year because they got the most votes from little girls.
 
Lion is bad. But it is NOT Vista bad (pre-sp1). Besides Win 7 is just Vista with bugs fixed and some GUI changes that made sense. Not the "world of difference" being touted. Just wish Apple would fix Active Directory so my companies can buy Mac's again. Lion has put my business on a Do Not Buy any new Mac's right now watch. Apple is losing at least a couple hundred grand from me. Not that they care all that much.
 
Doug and Wendy Whiner's unite under the Tux banner.

We are not afraid of progress or improvements,but we don't like setbacks and again "forced beta testing".
Just Like Microsoft "They know what they do".
Jobs built on the Unix kernel and it took them/him forever to get it straight.
It is still a difficult work in progress..I'm sure.
Well so is Linux more or less and the public or average user is not too stupid to figure it out.
I'm no command line jockey ,but I'm done with all this expensive proprietary nonsense that barely works....
In fact I think Ubuntu 10.4Lts has better hardware support than Mac or windows lately.
On my website I bashed vista when it came out,but said "we will probably all be using it in a year" .
Man was I wrong.
Yes we need to move into the future, but consider this "does a text/word doc open any faster than it did in the 80's?" the answer is No...maybe 10 times slower on server class hardware.
Yeah ,Yeah ..the Gui blah ,Blah.
How about advanced printing configuration on mac lately...there is very little to say the least.
Same with 7 stinkola with printers and networks.

We are not afraid of change if it is a benefit to the end user ,remember him ( that's you!)
While also still a work in progress...consider Ubuntu... penguin power 4ever.
 
Djangry said:
We are not afraid of progress or improvements,but we don't like setbacks and again "forced beta testing".
Just Like Microsoft "They know what they do".
Jobs built on the Unix kernel and it took them/him forever to get it straight.
It is still a difficult work in progress..I'm sure.
Well so is Linux more or less and the public or average user is not too stupid to figure it out.
I'm no command line jockey ,but I'm done with all this expensive proprietary nonsense that barely works....
In fact I think Ubuntu 10.4Lts has better hardware support than Mac or windows lately.
On my website I bashed vista when it came out,but said "we will probably all be using it in a year" .
Man was I wrong.
Yes we need to move into the future, but consider this "does a text/word doc open any faster than it did in the 80's?" the answer is No...maybe 10 times slower on server class hardware.
Yeah ,Yeah ..the Gui blah ,Blah.
How about advanced printing configuration on mac lately...there is very little to say the least.
Same with 7 stinkola with printers and networks.

We are not afraid of change if it is a benefit to the end user ,remember him ( that's you!)
While also still a work in progress...consider Ubuntu... penguin power 4ever.
Click to expand...

Not really forced Beta Testing. You'd have to expect that some apps are going to have problems, they always do with new OS releases. Rosetta for example...everyone knew it was coming and upgraded then bitched about it. :rolleyes:

Ubuntu is a decent OS with plenty of decent free apps. Would it work well for 90% of what people need? Yes
Is it better than OSX or Windows 7. No(just my opinion)
I'd like to see more PC's getting released with it personally, because most people would be just fine using it.
There always comes some specialty thing you need your computer to do, then you hit a wall and are just screwed.
 
I just upgraded yesterday finally and downgraded today. I won't write a review on the App Store because they publish your full name, but I would give it 2 stars--and those 2 stars would be because it still is OS X. But in my use with it, MobileMe syncing of calendars and system preferences broke, Bluetooth File Exchange (the application) was untouched during the upgrade and left broken, QuickTime recordings use 2x the data and 2x the CPU, screen sharing takes up to 30% CPU (on a much older Mac running SL I compared it to it was .2%). I'm unusual probably in that I use Quicktime for video recording, use screen sharing extensively, and use Bluetooth File Exchange frequently, but because those are things I use a lot and they either didn't work or took up so much CPU my computer was maxed out at 6200 RPM fan speed, I had to downgrade.

It's hard for me to understand how Apple could have worked on this for over a year and not seen problems that were immediately glaring to me. I checked and they still list Bluetooth File Exchange as a feature of Lion yet they let that utility completely break in Lion.

I have been using Apple products since the Apple 2, including Powerbooks, Performas, the first iMac, a Cube, various iBooks, various Macbooks, and iMac, and MacBook Pro. I have done every software upgrade. I even stuck with MobileMe (was a member since December 2000 when iTools came out). This is the first software upgrade I have downgraded from.

It really seems like a shame to me. I *want* to like Lion. I want to keep liking Apple. It actually made me sad to downgrade. I wish I could call Apple (and not AppleCare who really don't know much more than the basics) and tell them specifically how Lion sucks so I could at least have some hope these things would get fixed.

I am a registered developer, so I tried submitting bug reports at bugreport.apple.com, but the Bug Reporter doesn't work. They must expect that because there is a form to fill out if the log in to the bug reporter won't work correctly! So, as it stands I am awaiting a response on the bugs in the bug reporter.

Like I said, I wanted Lion to work. I am using Snow Leopard now and it's fine. I wish I could take the good features of Lion and add them to Snow Leopard without adding all the things that got broken in the upgrade. I am just kind of pissed off at Apple. They're going in a direction I don't like, and I don't get how as their popularity increases, I seem to like their products less and less because I really do want to like them. Even the App Store annoys me. I considered posting a review and there is no ability I could see to choose a pseudonym for reviews. They also have so many grammatical errors littered throughout the App Store like, "Hello username," instead of "Hello, username." I called Apple about that and wrote them about it, but it never gets fixed. Do you also notice when you click on "Hello Username" it takes you to the exact same place as the link below it, which says Account. It's just such an ugly, non-Apple-looking interface. And I just downloaded the new iPhoto too when I downloaded Lion. It's OK, but the gimmicky interfaces for projects feel so unlike the Apple from the days of desktop publishing, when they made open, intuitive interfaces, instead of these gimmicky Windows-Wizard-like features.

Sorry to rant so much. Will Apple ever be lovable again? I miss loving Apple or wanting to put an Apple sticker on the family car. I actually think about trying Windows now to see what it's like.
 
swingerofbirch said:
I just upgraded yesterday finally and downgraded today. I won't write a review on the App Store because they publish your full name, but I would give it 2 stars--and those 2 stars would be because it still is OS X. But in my use with it, MobileMe syncing of calendars and system preferences broke, Bluetooth File Exchange (the application) was untouched during the upgrade and left broken, QuickTime recordings use 2x the data and 2x the CPU, screen sharing takes up to 30% CPU (on a much older Mac running SL I compared it to it was .2%). I'm unusual probably in that I use Quicktime for video recording, use screen sharing extensively, and use Bluetooth File Exchange frequently, but because those are things I use a lot and they either didn't work or took up so much CPU my computer was maxed out at 6200 RPM fan speed, I had to downgrade.

It's hard for me to understand how Apple could have worked on this for over a year and not seen problems that were immediately glaring to me. I checked and they still list Bluetooth File Exchange as a feature of Lion yet they let that utility completely break in Lion.

I have been using Apple products since the Apple 2, including Powerbooks, Performas, the first iMac, a Cube, various iBooks, various Macbooks, and iMac, and MacBook Pro. I have done every software upgrade. I even stuck with MobileMe (was a member since December 2000 when iTools came out). This is the first software upgrade I have downgraded from.

It really seems like a shame to me. I *want* to like Lion. I want to keep liking Apple. It actually made me sad to downgrade. I wish I could call Apple (and not AppleCare who really don't know much more than the basics) and tell them specifically how Lion sucks so I could at least have some hope these things would get fixed.

I am a registered developer, so I tried submitting bug reports at bugreport.apple.com, but the Bug Reporter doesn't work. They must expect that because there is a form to fill out if the log in to the bug reporter won't work correctly! So, as it stands I am awaiting a response on the bugs in the bug reporter.

Like I said, I wanted Lion to work. I am using Snow Leopard now and it's fine. I wish I could take the good features of Lion and add them to Snow Leopard without adding all the things that got broken in the upgrade. I am just kind of pissed off at Apple. They're going in a direction I don't like, and I don't get how as their popularity increases, I seem to like their products less and less because I really do want to like them. Even the App Store annoys me. I considered posting a review and there is no ability I could see to choose a pseudonym for reviews. They also have so many grammatical errors littered throughout the App Store like, "Hello username," instead of "Hello, username." I called Apple about that and wrote them about it, but it never gets fixed. Do you also notice when you click on "Hello Username" it takes you to the exact same place as the link below it, which says Account. It's just such an ugly, non-Apple-looking interface. And I just downloaded the new iPhoto too when I downloaded Lion. It's OK, but the gimmicky interfaces for projects feel so unlike the Apple from the days of desktop publishing, when they made open, intuitive interfaces, instead of these gimmicky Windows-Wizard-like features.

Sorry to rant so much. Will Apple ever be lovable again? I miss loving Apple or wanting to put an Apple sticker on the family car. I actually think about trying Windows now to see what it's like.
Click to expand...

You took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly how I am feeling about Apple right now. Snow Leopard will not be supported forever and I;m wondering what will be next to use. Apple let the success of ios devices get into their heads. What happened to the mac? I'm more opened to windows again (converted to mac in 2007 with leopard). On a side note, getting sick of iOS and the iphone. Saw someone with using a windows phone 7 couple days ago and it looked pretty cool.
 
deadlystriker said:
You took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly how I am feeling about Apple right now. Snow Leopard will not be supported forever and I;m wondering what will be next to use. Apple let the success of ios devices get into their heads. What happened to the mac? I'm more opened to windows again (converted to mac in 2007 with leopard). On a side note, getting sick of iOS and the iphone. Saw someone with using a windows phone 7 couple days ago and it looked pretty cool.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't think they knew the app store thing would take off and once it did that informed their decision making. It's ended up being a propieterization of the Internet. Before the app store, Apple heavily promoted web apps. Now their web apps directory is dusty and not even updated to have a mobile version for the iPhone. I honestly don't understand why Apple's products have become as popular as they are except that the popularity has the feeling of steamrolling inertia. When the iPad came out, I didn't see the appeal (with the lack of fast text input), but I felt like Apple decided it would be successful and then it was. Microsoft used to similarly decide to be in a market rather than win a market. I'm not saying the iPad isn't the best of its kind, I'm just not interested in its kind. I don't feel the pay-attention-to-details, and ability to do things in a unique and functional feeling from Apple I used to. Their software seems obvious but not intuitive. The iPad reminds me of exactly what someone would have expected Apple to create after the success of the iPhone--but Apple used to not create what people expected. The software keyboard on an iPad is totally nonfunctional and non-ingenius compared to the scroll-wheel for input on the original iPod. Apple used to come up with genius interfaces that were so simple. Once you understand the simple paradigms of that interface, you were empowered to create at will. Now they create non-standard interfaces that tell you what pre-designed task you are going to do. It's like each application becomes a stand-alone appliance rather than encouraging interfaces where you can be creative. You have apps for the single purpose of making a picture look old, for example, which is sort of like machines from the old days that serve one purpose. The computer was supposed to be the opposite--it could compute anything, but Apple is turning the computer into an appliance, or many segregated appliances in one box. And I mean how often will that inspire someone? To make a Hollywood like movie trailer in iMovie? Or make a greeting card in iPhoto? It's not exactly the think different mentality. I used to love making movies in iMovie 6 HD, and made some really great ones, but all the versions of iMovie since then have confused me so much--because they try to guess too much what I want to do! If you give people a few powerful tools that don't guess what the end result is, you can make people very powerful. I felt the same way about Adobe GoLive 4 before Adobe ruined it and later discontinued it. It was very powerful for creative people. I don't even like iLife much anymore, and that used to be Macs' selling point! Garageband is still good, though. But still too much unnecessary glitz, glamour, and intervention that makes things needlessly complicated.

I think Apple's recent innovation has been business strategy. I think that's what they are good at now. And I hope they know that. What I would love to hear Steve Jobs say most of all, if he could off record somehow, is that he gets it too. He gets that the products have changed, the vision has changed, and they're riding a commercial tidal wave of success right now and that's what they're after. I really did think the iPhone was amazing when I saw it introduced. Classy, elegant, intuitive. The original iPhone was Apple's last great innovation IMO. Since then, I think business strategy--and almost incomprehensible success and media coverage--has been their greatest innovation.
 
gentlefury said:
Depends what you read...if you read all the old whiny people on here that are just unwilling to accept change...than you would think its the new Windows ME.

If you actually pay attention to people that use the OS as it's intended and don't just whine every time there is a slight change to their precious OS (they will make these same complaints when 10.8 comes out saying it's not like 10.7 so it sucks!)

The reality is:

Image

Only a VERY small percentage of users are unhappy. And they all seem to congregate here to complain!
Click to expand...

A few things: I've never had feature complaints about previous OS X releases, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for a lot of those complaining about Lion. It has seen OS X jump the shark - they ran out of good new features and so gave us a combination of massive backtracks (previous staunch anti-anywhere resize stance; previous anti-maximise/fullscreen stance, etc.), iOSifications (Address Book & iCal GUIs, new Mail UI, mad single window focus), and downright destructive systems (resume/autosave/versions). And as we all know from the past, new hardware won't be able to go back, and so for a lot of us there really is no going forward :(.

Interesting ratings chart - I think what you'll find is that a lot of the complaining people will not offer a rating at all, and then there's culture. In New Zealand we are a very non-rating lot; App Store shopping is hard because most things have zero reviews. It has never occurred to me to go and rate anything on the MAS.

Oh, I would go and check the NZ store for sure right now ... but I'm started up under Windows 7. Oh, and Vista was probably the most fun to use OS I have used - post-SP1 maybe, but that still stands.
 
It's not true, Lion has many new features that makes it superior to SL but still has some bugs...

I'm enjoying Lion so far :)
 
BSM said:
THE WORST RELEASE OF ALL TIME! Not only does everything take forever to run and load but also stuff goes missing...Safari crashes almost daily and is sluggish, Mail crashes everytime it safes a draft of an email
Click to expand...

I haven't experienced a single crash. Mail is (finally) a pleasure to read.

Using Lion has only gotten smoother over the course of the month. A few very mild hiccups (nothing to speak of; a little bit of choppiness sometimes, for instance in safari when I load the Top Sites page).

Lion comes on fast. If it is slower than SL, rest assured that it is only ever so slightly so.

I mostly run safari, pages, scrivener. At least for these relatively mild tasks, Lion cannot be called slow. Click address book or ical and it is switchblade fast.
 
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lion doesnt suck-I think lion is very refreshing- it might lack a bit of color but i wouldnt go as far as to say it sucks.
 
gentlefury said:
Depends what you read...if you read all the old whiny people on here that are just unwilling to accept change...than you would think its the new Windows ME.

If you actually pay attention to people that use the OS as it's intended and don't just whine every time there is a slight change to their precious OS (they will make these same complaints when 10.8 comes out saying it's not like 10.7 so it sucks!)

The reality is:

Image

Only a VERY small percentage of users are unhappy. And they all seem to congregate here to complain!
Click to expand...

A few words about Windows ME.
It was a transitional OS a blend of 98 and NT soon to be XP.

It was buggy and than Microsoft put the effort to make the code 10 times better than before..ME in it's final days was actually a decent OS because the company focused.
Let's hope Lion shares the same fate.

Mac seems to want you to upgrade every three years or so.
I take issue with that,but will save that for another post.

Also it is not always their fault when apps go astray- I still can't get adobe updater to work properly under any of version of OSX.

Apple does so many things right,you are probably spot on when you say must users will be happy.... eventually.
Upgrading is never an easy process ,although mac seems to do it rather well.
Some apps are always lost till they catch up or give up.

Just remember pioneers get arrows -settlers get land.
We just need to wait a while.....
 
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