So are all MBP owners with the 8600m GT cards screwed?

[daneoni]

The replacement part in your Genius Bar receipt should say MLB Rev2

 

[DeepIn2U]

Don't Fret - you're not the ONLY ones.

Don't Fret.


http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/26/dell-explains-nvidia-gpu-issues-throws-out-bios-updates-to-help/

So yeah, quite a few NVIDIA GPUs have been acting up. Nothing new there. However, Dell's attempting to help its laptop owners out by making a few notable BIOS updates readily available for download. Apparently the issue "is a weak die / packaging material set, which may fail with GPU temperature fluctuations." In order to combat the problem, Dell's BIOS flashes "modify the fan profile to help regulate GPU temperature fluctuations," though the Round Rock powerhouse only promises that the updates will "help reduce the likelihood of GPU issues." Hit the read link and give it a go -- it can't hurt... we hope.

Links tooELL
http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/...*****to-all-affected-customers-worldwide.aspx

Dell will offer a 12-month limited warranty enhancement specific to this issue. For all customers worldwide, we plan to add 12 months of coverage for this issue to the existing limited warranty up to 60 months from the date of purchase for the following systems...

HP also got screwed equipment as well.

Jul 10th 2008 at 3:07PM
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/10/all-nvidia-8400m-8600m-chips-faulty/

NVIDIA's stock took a pretty big hit last week when it announced that "significant quantities" of "previous-generation" GPUs and mobile and communications processors were defective and that it would take a $250M charge against earnings to repair and replace the affected chips, but the company didn't say which chips specifically were faulty, nor how many. That might be because the problem is much worse than it even sounds -- according to a report in The Inquirer, every single G84 and G86 GPU in the 8400M and 8600M series of cards is affected. Apparently both chips share an ASIC, and the core design suffers from the same heat-related issues. That certainly implicates a "significant quantity" of chips, all right, but this is just a rumor for now -- one that's probably best handled by NVIDIA stepping up and letting its customers know exactly how big the problem is.

finally ...
Jul 2nd 2008 at 10:48PM
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/02/nvidia-says-significant-quantities-of-laptop-gpus-are-defectiv/

If you're the type to watch the late stock tickers, you might have noticed that NVIDIA's stock just took a pretty big hit, down 24 percent to $13.56 -- that's because the company just informed investors that "significant quantities" of previous-generation graphics chips have been failing at "higher than normal rates," and that it's lowering its Q2 estimates due to pricing pressure. NVIDIA will be taking a $150M to $250M charge against earnings next quarter to cover the cost of repairing and replacing the affected chips, but didn't specifically announce what products were defective, just that they include GPUs and "media and communications processors." Laptop makers have apparently already been given an updated GPU driver which kicks in fans sooner to reduce "thermal stress" on the GPU, and NVIDIA says it's talking to its suppliers about being reimbursed for the faulty parts. That's great and all, but we'd really rather know which chips specifically are failing -- if you're serious about playing in the big leagues, you better come clean, guys.

I love nVidia as much as the next guy but I'm trying to determine which nVidia mobile gpu's are free of issues.

 

[DeepIn2U]

More nVidia gpu news ....

NVIDIA G92 and G94 GPUs failing too?
Aug 12th 2008 at 1:33PM
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92-and-g94-gpus-failing-too/

As if the whole defective NVIDIA GPU situation couldn't get any more confusing, The Inquirer is now reporting that the previous batch of bad GPUs may be far from the end of NVIDIA's problems. Apparently, four unspecified board partners are now saying that they're seeing G92 and G94 chips going bad at "high rates" as well, and in both desktop and laptop cards no less. That includes 8800GT, 8800GTS, 8800GS graphics cards, "several mobile flavors" of the 8800, "most" of the 9800 suffixes, and a few 9600 variants, all of which are based on the G92. As for the G94, it seems the only card affected is the 9600GT. Of course, none of this is nearly as set in stone as the previous lot of problems, but we have a sneaking suspicion this won't be last we hear about it.

However, a RAY of good light

NVIDIA reportedly urging customers to buy new problem-free GPUs
Dec 26th 2008 at 4:08PM (just a few days ago folks)
http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/26/nvidia-reportedly-urging-customers-to-buy-new-problem-free-gpus/

NVIDIA has yet to step in and confirm this publicly, but a purported leaked memo from the outfit has been posted over at VR-Zone. What's it say, you ask? Only that the company "strongly recommends that customers transition to the latest revision of the NB8E-SET GPUs as soon as possible." Said revision taps a new Hitachi underfill packaging material that "improves product quality and enhances operating life by improved thermal cycling reliability." If you'll recall, certain PC vendors such as Dell issued their own firmware updates to combat the weak packaging set in the chip maker's faulty GPUs earlier this year, but it appears that NVIDIA's solution is to just let bygones be bygones and get on with the new and improved.

Also sourced here: http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/26/nvidia.urging.new.material/

Certain newer chips, including the 9400M integrated chip at the heart of some Apple and Toshiba notebooks, already use the newer, safer material. It's not presently known whether a later revision of the 9600M has been introduced.

 

[KissStephanie]

GPU 1 failed July 3, 2008. MBP was bought 6-17-07. Replacement GPU failed 4 months 2 weeks later, 11-13-08. Make no mistake, if your GPU was replaced before about 2weeks ago, you have a part doomed for failure.

According to you, every single MacBook Pro built before September with these GPU's will fail. In that case, none of them will work, and that is rubbish. The actual truth of the matter is that some of these GPU's were badly packaged for heat tolerance. Nvidia initially claimed that none of these dodgy GPU's made it into MacBook Pro's.

The fact is that some did. Some people therefore will experience problems, and the earlier the model in the nVidia 8600 GT line are more likely then the later built models. That said, not even the earlier models are sure to fail, only some of them. If you have had two failed GPU's, then you have bad luck.

 

[jjahshik32]

NVIDIA G92 and G94 GPUs failing too?
Aug 12th 2008 at 1:33PM
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92-and-g94-gpus-failing-too/



However, a RAY of good light

NVIDIA reportedly urging customers to buy new problem-free GPUs
Dec 26th 2008 at 4:08PM (just a few days ago folks)
http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/26/nvidia-reportedly-urging-customers-to-buy-new-problem-free-gpus/


Also sourced here: http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/26/nvidia.urging.new.material/

I duno those sources get their sources from the inquirer so the REAL question is if the inquirer is really correct or not.
But so far there hasnt been many 9600m gt dying and still crossing my fingers.

 

[Vulcan]

According to you, every single MacBook Pro built before September with these GPU's will fail. In that case, none of them will work, and that is rubbish. The actual truth of the matter is that some of these GPU's were badly packaged for heat tolerance. Nvidia initially claimed that none of these dodgy GPU's made it into MacBook Pro's.

The fact is that some did. Some people therefore will experience problems, and the earlier the model in the nVidia 8600 GT line are more likely then the later built models. That said, not even the earlier models are sure to fail, only some of them. If you have had two failed GPU's, then you have bad luck.

You do know that all GPU's, 8600, 9600, whatever, will fail sooner or later. It's only a matter of when.

 

[panzer06]

According to you, every single MacBook Pro built before September with these GPU's will fail. In that case, none of them will work, and that is rubbish. The actual truth of the matter is that some of these GPU's were badly packaged for heat tolerance. Nvidia initially claimed that none of these dodgy GPU's made it into MacBook Pro's.

The fact is that some did. Some people therefore will experience problems, and the earlier the model in the nVidia 8600 GT line are more likely then the later built models. That said, not even the earlier models are sure to fail, only some of them. If you have had two failed GPU's, then you have bad luck.

While these facts you refer to may be accurate as far you your definition of some goes, neither you nor anyone else knows the full scope and breadth of the problem. I have had my logic board replaced once. I stopped using my MBP for Bootcamp since this tended to rev up my fans much more frequently. I had to buy a Windows laptop (with ATI mobile HD3650) to do what I intended my more expensive Mac to handle.

These problems continue to plague Sony, Dell, HP & others. I've seen numerous posts from Sony users about the 8400s in their Vaios and Sony still does not officially acknowledge the problem.

The reason people state "all are broken" is related to the fact that there is no way to tell if the replacement you've been given (from the OEMs spares, which could have been manufactured who knows when) is any less likely to fail than the dead GPU it replaced. This uncertainty leads people to declared they're all broken because if they can't determine if theirs is a good one, then its potentially bad and therefore unreliable.

I will not buy any nVidia-based laptop period, until nVidia agrees to reimburse the OEMs for replacing any defective GPUs (including the full cost of the logic board and not just the paltry sum they reimburse for the failed GPU) for the lifetime of the system or 5 years. This would go a long way to getting people to relax and know they will be covered for the predictable life of the system (I know many people use their Mac longer).

Saying it's only "some" is fine until it's your GPU that dies 1 month after the 12 month warranty extension expires.

Cheers,

 

[argos4000]

What about the new 9600s? Are they ok?

 

[KissStephanie]

You do know that all GPU's, 8600, 9600, whatever, will fail sooner or later. It's only a matter of when.

I know that I don't know that all GPU's will fail sooner or later. I never said that I did. What I do know is that some will fail but most will not. The people that have had issues are more than Apple wanted, but it's still the minority of people that own computers with these GPU's.

These problems continue to plague Sony, Dell, HP & others. I've seen numerous posts from Sony users about the 8400s in their Vaios and Sony still does not officially acknowledge the problem.

I'm not doubting the problem because it definitely exists. The thing that people don't understand is that it is happening to the minority of people and not every single computer with this GPU. It is more than Apple has wanted though and that is why they have extended the warranty, but it is still remote. It is occurring on some models with these GPU's not all.

Of course there are people that post about the problem when it occurs to them, but I have no doubt that most people that own these computers never post on any site about any topic. For every one person that is posting about this problem, I'm sure there are dozens that are not posting and they're not having the problem.

That said, I'm glad that Apple have extended the warranty on these computers in case more people experience the problem.

 

[MrZebra]

The statement appears to refer to a switch to material that is better balanced and has a higher melting point, which increases a given chip's ability to withstand the regular heat-up and cool-down processes that come with turning the part on or off and running it at full speed. Many current chips from NVIDIA, including the GeForce 9600M of the current MacBook Pro as well as virtually all GeForce 8M parts, use material with a lower melting point and so are prone to long-term failures that blank out video and have prompted warranty extensions by Apple, Dell and HP.

So they want vendors to jump onboard for the new chips, but what about the 8600 series in the last gen MBP? Will they ever provide a bug free version fo those card for replacement? Apple can only do so much, extending warranty was good move on their part but if they won't be provided with good chips what can they do?
Is it possible to stick another nvidia card in the early 08 models?

 

[halfbelgian]

Sorry if this has been discussed as I haven't read through all the posts (new to macbook pro) but this:

Specific products affected:

MacBook Pro 15-inch and 17-inch models with NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processors
MacBook Pro (17-Inch, 2.4GHz)
MacBook Pro (15-Inch, 2.4/2.2GHz)
MacBook Pro (Early 2008)
These computers were manufactured between approximately May 2007 and September 2008

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

from seems to suggest not all laptops are potentially affected. Mine is a refurb 15" 2.6 GHz so I'm particularly interested.

 

[HerbyGunther]

I have a Santa Rosa MacBook Pro with the GF8600 and the screen just died. Plugging in an external screen doesn't work. No way to get it back. So there is truth about faulty NVidia chips. Someone knows if I can get a free repair?

 

[lefse]

According to you, every single MacBook Pro built before September with these GPU's will fail. In that case, none of them will work, and that is rubbish. The actual truth of the matter is that some of these GPU's were badly packaged for heat tolerance. Nvidia initially claimed that none of these dodgy GPU's made it into MacBook Pro's.

The fact is that some did. Some people therefore will experience problems, and the earlier the model in the nVidia 8600 GT line are more likely then the later built models. That said, not even the earlier models are sure to fail, only some of them. If you have had two failed GPU's, then you have bad luck.

How can you know for sure that only "some" of the GPU's made will fail?
I've had no less than _three_ mbp 2.2/128 logic board changes. Twice did the Rev2 replacement boards fail. When reading that others have experienced the same, this only leads me to the conclusion that all of them will eventually fail. The reason seems obvious; the GPU cannot cope with higher temperatures over time. Meaning; If you only use the computer for word processing, you will most likely be fine (maybe forever), whereas if you use the computer for graphics-intensive work - it will say goodnight fairly quick.

And just to clearify for the people who have trouble with seeing this as a massive embarrassment for both Apple and Nvidia (I don't care to mention the rest of the industry, because I have no experience with their service regarding this matter):
The product is called the Macbook _Pro_. Not the Macbook Amateur. Knowingly changing logic boards, hoping that the customer won't notice it being another defective one is terribly bad business ethics. Apple wants to save money - good for them. But People who cannot grasp this should stop and think over their arguments - or at least demand a compensation from Apple, for doing their dirty work for free.

 

[magallanes]

Sorry if this has been discussed as I haven't read through all the posts (new to macbook pro) but this:



http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377

from seems to suggest not all laptops are potentially affected. Mine is a refurb 15" 2.6 GHz so I'm particularly interested.

"early 2008" is just a ambiguous concept, so your notebook can fit on it.

I have a Santa Rosa MacBook Pro with the GF8600 and the screen just died. Plugging in an external screen doesn't work. No way to get it back. So there is truth about faulty NVidia chips. Someone knows if I can get a free repair?

Yes, you can get a free repair.

 

[brendanm14]

Cool?

So if I am looking at a refurb 2.4ghz Macbook Pro from apple.com/store should I worry about this issue or will it already have been fixed for me?

 

[panzer06]

So if I am looking at a refurb 2.4ghz Macbook Pro from apple.com/store should I worry about this issue or will it already have been fixed for me?

If its a refurb with the 8600GT, the potential os the problem occurring exists. Some owners of laptops from Apple, Dell, HP, Sony and others with nvidia 8400 and 8600 (and possibly all the 8x00 series) have had multiple GPU failures/replacements.

I personally will not but any laptop with a mobile nvidia GPU. However, the newer systems with the nvidia 9x00 GPU have not had this same issue reported, so perhaps there is hope.

If you will be playing games or doing other graphics intensive work that will cause frequent heating and cooling I would not even consider the MBPs with the 8600. The versions with the ATI x1600, while slower, have no GPU issues and can be had for very reasonable prices.

Cheers,

 

[Ryan1524]

Just got my logic board replaced for this. Working nicely so far.

 

[JavaWizKid]

My friend got his MBP about half a year ago and plays WOW frequently. He has a laptop cooler as well as smc fan control to keep the temps down and he is experiencing GPU symptoms. Will Apple replace it with a FIXED GPU or will they give him the newer version of the MBP which some people have been getting as replacements? Just think of how many MBPs Apple sold with this bad card in. They can't just forget about it!

 

[jjahshik32]

My friend got his MBP about half a year ago and plays WOW frequently. He has a laptop cooler as well as smc fan control to keep the temps down and he is experiencing GPU symptoms. Will Apple replace it with a FIXED GPU or will they give him the newer version of the MBP which some people have been getting as replacements? Just think of how many MBPs Apple sold with this bad card in. They can't just forget about it!

Are you sure its you and not your friend? Hehe.

 

[JavaWizKid]

Lol no, I'm not an intensive WOW player. TBH its the worst game I have ever played! Why would I say my friend it it was me with the problem?

 

[alphaod]

Why would I say my friend it it was me with the problem?

Because WoW players should be feel ashamed.

 

[JavaWizKid]

WOW hasn't touched my MBP and it never will do either. That's why mine is still functioning

 

[panzer06]

Just got my logic board replaced for this. Working nicely so far.

Mine was replaced in November and it works fine now, however, every time I run bootcamp (Vista) the fans stay on all the time, not just when I am in a game.

The sad thing is I don't trust playing Windows games on this system anymore for fear of having another nvidia problem. I bought a Sony Vaio for $999 (ATI HD3650 GPU) for Vista gaming. That's $1000 more because my $1800 MBP has a GPU I can't feel comfortable relying on for anything other than work and web. Other than having a Mac (which I prefer for work), I bought the MBP to play games when I'm remote yet still have my work everywhere.

Carrying two laptops just seems so wrong. I seriously thought about getting a new MBP (spending another $1700-$1800) until they announced the unibody MBPs still use nvidia GPUs. Even though there are no reported problems related to heat, I won't buy a mobile system with "nvidia inside".

Cheers,

 

[cenobyt]

I purchased a refurbed MacBook pro 15" 2.4 in late Oct/early Nov from Apples website. I knew Nvidia had a few issues but I never connected it to the MacBook pro. I wish I had just for peace of mind.

I do occasionally play WoW (no other games) but with smcfancontrol and my Belkin cool pad, I never get past 65c. Seems cool enough. It idles around 30c and running web or something in iwork/ilife puts me at mid 40c.
My understanding however, is that it doesn't really matter and it can crap out anyway at anytime.
In the few months I've owned it, I have had it freeze up twice while literally surfing the web (ebay/paypal) and once I had an issue in which it wouldn't render text in websites correctly. None I can really tie to GPU but rather just that it's a computer. I rebooted and problems were fixed. No other issues.

I really love this machine.

What pisses me off though is that this appears to be a known problem and seeing as I bought a refurb in November, you'd think it would have been refurbed with a new revision of the chip etc. etc. Why refurb a product and then knowingly sell it with a soon to be yet again defective chip. Doesn't seem worth a companies time and money. Refurb so as to refurb again. I have to assume this is the case because I haven't read anything that publicly states the problem has been solved. Just assumptions. So it appears they knowingly took a crap shoot and sold a product after announcing the issue.

I also don't think it's possible to see build date on a refurb. I would assume it shows original date of manufacture. Mine shows June.

 

[xiaobaizhu]

My MBP just crapped out... kinda

Alright first off sorry for being impatient and posting before reading through all the post but I did like to get some answers if i should be getting it my MBP down to applecare from anyone that has been following the thread. Getting impatient and worried while reading through the pages =/

Some of the symptoms my 15inch 2.4 SR(I believe) June 2007 MBP with the 8600GTM card. Below are some of them and abit of how I use my Mac regularly

Symptoms
Kernel Panic even before start up and weird vertical lines forming on the KP screen
Artifacts while playing even the least intensive of games (MapleStory)
More graphically intensive games lock-up and crashes my machine (started happening about 2 weeks back)

How I used my Mac
I am a student and I use 3Dsmax on a regular basis on bootcamp and render quite alot as well, I game regularly I would say about 10-20hours per week. I bump my default fans up to 6000rpm whenever I use to keep the temps as low as possible.

I would say I have enjoyed my MBP experience till recently i lost ability to play a proper game or work in peace. I would say all MBP users with the 8600GT should be alarmed as i consider myself treating my mac with alot of care and it has lasted about 2 years without much hiccup, if I was unlucky to have it conked just after my warranty... and not find this thread.. I would be pretty much screwed.

Looking forward to all your opinions =) and do pardon the not so awesome English =)