So let me get this straight...

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Lion (10.7)' started by macdonald79, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. macdonald79 macrumors newbie

    Aug 14, 2011
    - I can only download Mac OS Lion
    - I need Show Leopard in order to upgrade because that's the only other OS with the app store functionality required to download Lion
    - If I don't have Snow Leopard, I must purchase and install it in order to upgrade to Lion
    - They've eliminated Front Row so as to make Apple TV more enticing
    - They've also eliminated Rosetta meaning my more than capable copy of MS Office 2004 must be upgraded to the whatever bloated piece junk M$ is now selling.
    - Blu-ray is still a "big bag of hurt"

    ...I haven't really been following Apple news religiously, like I once did. So when my mom asked me to choose a new computer for her, I naturally said, "Get a Mac." I figured I would get her a used Mac Mini and upgrade to the latest OS. I couldn't believe it when I started reading about all of the "improvements" Apple has made. (Not to mention the all new Mac Mini sans-optical drive).

    Am I the only one fed up with Apple and all of their dumb decisions? Is there something I have missed? Is this all just one big misunderstanding on my part? Seriously, if there are alternatives I'm simply unaware of, please me know.

    If not, why the heck isn't anyone screaming bloody murder over this? (All I keep seeing for Lion are 5-star reviews.)
  2. bobfitz14 macrumors 65816


    Oct 14, 2008
    if their decisions are so dumb why is Apple the most valuable company in the world?

    apparently there is.


    ...don't buy a Mac.
  3. Lokheed macrumors regular

    Jun 10, 2009
    Dumb decisions? They've been elevated to the being one of the world's most valuable companies.

    1) You can download the Lion USB recovery utility. This will allow you to install Lion on qualified machines. All new machines come with Lion pre-installed.

    2) See above. You do not need SL to upgrade.

    3) SL Has been out since August 2009. Unless you plan to buy your mom a first gen Mini, it'll come with SL installed, and have SL install disks.

    4) Yes, Front Row is a sad loss. But someone's already pulled the one from SL and it works fine (been running it):

    5) Your copy of 2004. A seven year old copy. Almost getting a decade out of your software is pretty damn good in computer terms. Quit whining. Apple dumped 32bit support and I had to finally replace my first gen MBP which runs damn fine I might add. Don't see me whining. That's progress. PPC had to go sometime. And if you don't like it, then run SL. Can't have your cake and eat it too buddy. It's called progress and there's a flip to side that coin. All these new machines out there wouldn't be anything if every developer clung to the past. Excuse me for wanting my brand new, 2011 machine to be pushed to its limits! I didn't buy a new Mac to have it run stuff from 2004. I'm sorry you do, that's your prerogative. But I'm sure most people are like my. Again; progress.

    6) Blu-ray is bundled up with licensing. Talk to Sony. They are the keeper's of the key and considering their track record for playing nice, don't expect much. Honestly, do your homework and quit pointing fingers. It's ignorant.
  4. mrapplegate macrumors 68030

    Feb 26, 2011
    Cincinnati, OH
  5. iHateMacs macrumors 6502a


    Aug 13, 2008
    Coventry, UK
    It's called progress.

    You are not forced to join in.
  6. fortheloveofmac macrumors member

    Jul 28, 2011
    I have Office for Mac [Student] 2011 with Lion. Compatible with everything, has save features (as so many mention they miss from whatever program they are using ), and haven't had a shut down or anything buggy with it. If you're looking for something like that, of course. I think it was $100 at Best Buy, but should work with everyone happily for a long while.

    PS: this forum has barley any good reviews, sadly, and Lion has given the people around me and I no problems and we all recommend a fair trial for all. Apple Care is great in refunding and assisting promptly, so I think it's worth a shot.
  7. cinematicme macrumors member


    Aug 2, 2011
    1. Inside the Lion download is an install ESD which you can restore to a thumbdrive or firewire hard drive to install a fresh copy.


    2. You don't need SL

    3. There are plenty alternatives to Front Row, including Plex, Boxee, xbmc, etc

    4. You do realize your using a 7 year old piece of software and its 2011 right? If you don't like MS, get iWork. Pages will export to .doc , Numbers will export .xls and Keynote will export .ppt's and its all built natively for mac.

    5. Get an external Blu-Ray burner/reader

    Problem solved. Next.
  8. melva macrumors member

    Jul 28, 2011
    Get Her a PC, Please

    Considering that Apple has the nagging habit of constantly trying to push the envelope and invent new and better ways to compute, you just can't count on having a Mac and using the same software for seven years without having to upgrade. I agree that some of us want and have the right to remain in the computer stone age.

    Likewise, the nerve of Apple to charge a whopping $29 for Lion upgrade and then try to reduce the cost of physical dvd media, packaging and postage by developing the App Store. How can we maintain our contribution to land fills with irresponsible corporate conduct like that? If Apple were truly customer oriented they would simply freeze all development so we would have no need to upgrade anymore.

    On the other hand since PC's have achieved total perfection that is the obvious choice for you.
  9. aliensporebomb macrumors 68000


    Jun 19, 2005
    Minneapolis, MN, USA, Urth

    In truth it's been better. No waiting in line to buy a CD I use once in a five or six year period of time with packaging that litters landfills.

    I basically downloaded Lion, burned to CD then installed. Done. Lots cheaper, lots easier. Way better.

    Front Row. Let me tell you, every time I'd do a command-option-escape to get force quit up that stupid Front Row would appear. I never used that thing either. Annoying. Good riddance.
  10. Mr.C macrumors 601

    Apr 3, 2011
    London, UK.
    Thanks for giving me a laugh. That was a great post. :D

    Agree with everything said in the above posts.
  11. macdonald79 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Aug 14, 2011
    Wow. I've always heard the jokes about anti-social computer nerds (Apple nerds especially), but I had no idea...

    Valuable Company: So what if Apple makes a lot of money? So does/did Microsoft, but few would claim they are purveyors of fine, quality products. (See: XBOX 360)

    Don't Buy A Mac: Was that really necessary? Obviously, I want to use a Mac, that's why I signed up on a web site called

    Quit Whining: I'm not allowed to criticize Apple? I'm not allowed to even speak of Apple unless I fawning over Steve Jobs: The Greatest Human Being Who Has Ever Lived? Says who? You—whoever you are?

    Blu-ray: Are you trying to suggest that Sony refuses to allow the Mac to support Blu-ray movies? Because, what, they don't want money from Apple users? And here I was thinking that Apple was trying to eliminate competition by forcing people to use iTMS for movie downloads instead of buying proper HD movies.

    Progress: Guys, you're missing the point. My 2004 copy of MS Word works perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with it. I have a Windows 7 PC running MS Word from the same year, so why can't my new Mac do the same? Modern software is just getting worse and worse with every subsequent "upgrade." Yet, I'm expected to keep doling out money for a crummier version of a product I already own. Remember when Apple "improved" iMovie by removing features so it wouldn't compete with their FinalCut Express app? Yeah, that's progress alright.

    PC Perfection: I never said anything about Windows PCs. I hate Windows. In fact, I alluded to this in my OP when I said, "Get a Mac."

    Seriously, I've only been on this site for an hour and I've already received a barrage of angry invective that would make Bill O'Reily cringe.

    P.S. Somebody actually bothered to answer one of my questions by informing me that I can install Lion--in a needlessly convoluted fashion--without Snow Leopard, so thank you for that.

    P.P.S. Oh wait, you called me "ignorant." Nevermind.
  12. mrmister macrumors regular

    Dec 19, 2008
    I'm sorry macdonald79--Apple's changing, and the Apple fans are changing right alongside. In fact, ten years ago if you told me that arguments about why the stock price proves why any company is right, I would have assumed it was a Microsoft person trolling Mc message boards.

    I'd suggest checking out Macintouch--the people there are more capable of engaging with these things without bile, acrimony, and they have a better memory for the recent past.
  13. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    The reason why you need Snow Leopard is because you need to purchase/download Lion and the only way to do that is from the Mac Apple Store which is only available on SL.

    Rosetta is old and its about time apple put a bullet in it. Apple gave developers plenty of time to convert to intel code away from PPC code. You're options are plenty. If you don't like Office, then go with Libre office or iWork.

    Apple makes money by streaming video, why would they want to impact sales of iTunes rental/sales because they included a Blu-Ray

    Dumb, I don't think so, though I do question the logic behind the SL->Lion tie in. There could have been a better way but Many of us here at MR are already on SL and those that aren't still have PPC apps in all likelihood so there's less reason for them to upgrade. Regular consumers are loving this update so I don't think its a dumb move by apple, in fact this is apple best selling OS. They sold a million copies in a day.
  14. balamw Moderator


    Staff Member

    Aug 16, 2005
    New England
    This will become even easier as Apple has relented and will soon be making Lion available on a USB stick for $69 instead of the $29 download.

    Threads like this always remind me of the infamous Thread 500 . Apple makes plenty of decisions that may look dumb on the surface, but are in fact two steps ahead of everyone else.

    Front Row was neat when it first came out with Tiger, but Apple has essentially been ignoring it since then. I don't mourn its loss in Lion. The Hockey Puck :apple:TV with AirPlay is by far the best way of getting content from my Macs or iDevices onto a big screen.

    If Blu Ray is really a driver for your decision, then simply don't consider a Mac.

    You still have the option of buying your Mom the used Mini and running SL on it if Lion bothers you that much.

  15. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    They're entirely different circumstances.

    Office 2004 (for Mac) was written/compiled for Macs with PowerPC processors. Six years ago, all Macs switched to Intel processors (which can not directly run code written/compiled for PPC).

    Office 2003 (for Windows) was written/compiled for PCs running Intel-compat processors. Six years later, (virtually) all PCs are still running Intel-compat processors.
  16. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    And that's the point where I'll probably making the Lion jump myself - provided my printer driver and scanner drivers work for Lion
  17. canadianpj macrumors 6502

    Jun 27, 2008
    You know. I'm with you. I have a copy of Microsoft Office 2001 that no longer works and I'm mad as hell about it....

    Seriously? Seven year old software? Microsoft did not keep it up to date to match Intel architecture and why would they have? They want you to buy the new version. Of course software that age works on Windows. Think about it for a moment.
  18. macdonald79 thread starter macrumors newbie

    Aug 14, 2011
    Yes. Which makes it needlessly convoluted to install if I don't have Snow Leopard. Guys, what are you not understanding here? They took something that worked perfectly fine (optical media, full install) and made it worse.

    Again, that would require me to purchase new software to replace the perfectly fine app I already have. In fact, the upgrade will be worse than what I already have. But whatever.

    Ugh! Are you kidding me?

    Why are you defending Apple's bottom-line? Their actions are are anti-consumer and anti-competitive. You're a customer, you should be mad as hell for them pulling a stunt like this. Especially considering digital downloads are inferior to the product they are trying to supplant (Blu-rays, optical media).

    Yes, and many of us are not. I shouldn't have to install an upgrade to install an upgrade. Why can't you admit how absurd that is?

    I don't think any pre-Snow Leopard user is exclusively using PPC apps. In fact. In my case, MS OFFICE is the only non-Intel app I'm using.

    Yes. Just because they bought it doesn't mean they like it.
    And how many people wanted to upgrade, but couldn't?
  19. jsolares macrumors 6502a

    Aug 8, 2011
    Land of eternal Spring
    Then buy the usb stick with lion, does every bit of software written for windows 3.1 work with windows 7? not not everything, the move off PPC was long ago, and the death of rosetta was announced well before lion shipped, too bad it forces you to upgrade, but anyways office 2011 is way better imho.
  20. canadianpj macrumors 6502

    Jun 27, 2008
    Please rephrase your response. They made it worse for YOU not for ME I have no problem, nor does it seem a lot of other people. YOU don't like it so please let's not use blanket statements.

    You can go to any Apple Store now and buy a copy on a USB key, you'll pay a premium for doing so but there you go. Problem solved.
  21. handel30 macrumors member

    Jul 25, 2011
    Miami, Florida
    Look, I'm pretty happy with Lion. I love my brand new Macbook. I'm sorry you're all upset, but some of us are totally happy, and none of the criticisms you mentioned has been a problem for me. Don't take it personally.
  22. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    No, all they did was launch the download method before launching the "physical media" method.

    You'll be able to trot your happy self down to the Apple Store and buy a full-install of Lion, on physical media, sometime soon (if not already).

    Personally, I find the idea of clicking "Buy Now" and waiting 45 minutes for a download to finish a lot more "perfect" (and quicker/more efficient) than hopping into my car, driving to an Apple Store or Best Buy, buying physical media (that I'm likely to only use once, but still have to store/keep track of, "just in case"), and driving back (or ordering online and waiting days for a DVD to be flown to my state, put onto a truck, and driven to my doorstep).
  23. Tozzi macrumors regular

    Sep 3, 2009
    Munich, Germany
    What bothers me, on this forum, is how many people nowadays take criticism directed at Apple personally, even if it is perfectly valid.
    Scary, really. Whole thing starts bordering on religious fanaticism.

    Love and peace, guys! ;)
  24. balamw Moderator


    Staff Member

    Aug 16, 2005
    New England
    I still don't see your real issue.

    You were talking about buying a USED Mac. If running Office 2004 is a real driver for you then simply stop upgrading it at SL.

    On a new 2011 Mac you might have a case, but I don't see anything here to get as riled up about as you seem to be. Let's say you get a 2010 Mac mini. It will already come with SL and is readily upgradable to Lion if and when you choose to upgrade.

    Right now Lion and Office 2004 are mutually exclusive. End of the world? I think not.


  25. roadbloc macrumors G3


    Aug 24, 2009
    Yes. But for the majority of people, they are not deal breakers. Not quite sure why you're going on about five star reviews, if it works for people, they will vote five stars.

    However, on an interesting note, these are five best rated reviews of Lion on the UK App Store (which includes mine :D). Only one of them is five.

    Attached Files:

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