So let me get this straight...

[scaredpoet]

I don't think that Microsoft had any foresight into the 2006 Intel transition in 2004. Office 2004 was on the shelves for 18 months before and ~24 months after the Intel transition when it was replaced with Office 2008.

And that's 24 months that they had to do something about it. They COULD'VE come out with an update that permits native Intel support for 2004 instead of requiring an upgrade to Office 2008. But they didn't. They could've done done a back port even up to now. But they haven't. And for obvious reasons: they'd rather you buy the new software.

So why does Microsoft get a pass on this and Apple doesn't?

It's 7 year old software. That's a good run! But it had to end someday. It's time to move on.

 

[Mak47]

...If not, why the heck isn't anyone screaming bloody murder over this? (All I keep seeing for Lion are 5-star reviews.)

Has it occurred to you that maybe people are writing 5-star reviews because they are quite pleased with the new OS?

You have posted a diatribe about a product that you have yet to use. The folks that gave it 5 star reviews on the App Store have downloaded, installed and used it. I'll put a lot more faith in their opinions than yours.

I'll also put a lot more faith in my own opinion, and it is very high concerning Lion and Apple at the moment.

People aren't knocking you because you're bashing Apple, they're knocking you because you're making assumptive statements about products and services you have yet to even use. Millions of people are quite happy with the direction Apple has been going, clearly you aren't, but to say that they are making "dumb decisions" is skewed. Dumb to who? To you, or to the millions of people who buy and enjoy their products every year?

 

[mrmister]

"They COULD'VE come out with an update that permits native Intel support for 2004 instead of requiring an upgrade to Office 2008. But they didn't."

If you actually wrote this, then you don't know anything about how hard it was to port Office from a Metroworks-based PPC system to Xcode so it could be universal. Seriously, saying they could do it with an "update" is just ignorant.

"So why does Microsoft get a pass on this and Apple doesn't?"

Well, for example, Microsoft tells you if something will be unsupported. Apple is totally silent in advance about not supporting many years with of software, and then dumps its users. When you run your PR like that, people will be upset. Apple at the moment does not care.

 

[InuNacho]

Apple dumped 32bit support and I had to finally replace my first gen MBP which runs damn fine I might add. Don't see me whining.

You just did.

 

[balamw]

People aren't knocking you because you're bashing Apple, they're knocking you because you're making assumptive statements about products and services you have yet to even use.

What I don't get in all this is that the presumption seems to be that Apple makes these dumb decisions just to mess with the end user. They could have nothing to do with further plans and directions.

Like "natural scrolling" in Lion. It seems quite clear that this is one of those baby steps toward some future touch Mac, yet it is perceived as yet another "dumb decision".

B

 

[iThinkergoiMac]

I don't think that Microsoft had any foresight into the 2006 Intel transition in 2004. Office 2004 was on the shelves for 18 months before and ~24 months after the Intel transition when it was replaced with Office 2008.

Yes, good call. My timeline was a little bit off, thanks for the correction.

Ironically, Office 2008 uses a PPC installer, though the apps themselves are universal, making it difficult to install under Lion.

 

[KPOM]

Yes, good call. My timeline was a little bit off, thanks for the correction.

Ironically, Office 2008 uses a PPC installer, though the apps themselves are universal, making it difficult to install under Lion.

I installed Office 2008 in Lion without a problem. There are some bugs per Microsoft's Office for Mac blog, but they are supposedly working on fixes. There are a few bugs in Office 2011, as well. Both 2008 and 2011 run fine for most tasks.

 

[iThinkergoiMac]

I installed Office 2008 in Lion without a problem. There are some bugs per Microsoft's Office for Mac blog, but they are supposedly working on fixes. There are a few bugs in Office 2011, as well. Both 2008 and 2011 run fine for most tasks.

I'm getting shot down on all points here, aren't I?

Did you actually install 2008 under Lion, or was it installed when you upgraded (presuming you upgraded, not clean installed)? I'm certain I remember 2008 having a PPC installer.

 

[RamGuy]

What I don't get in all this is that the presumption seems to be that Apple makes these dumb decisions just to mess with the end user. They could have nothing to do with further plans and directions.

Like "natural scrolling" in Lion. It seems quite clear that this is one of those baby steps toward some future touch Mac, yet it is perceived as yet another "dumb decision".

B

Ironically, I for one find "natural scrolling" being just that. It seems and feels much more natural scrolling this way. Just think about it for a second, lets say you read your newspaper online and you want to scroll down to read the bottom, would you pull the paper up or down in order to read the lower parts? Obviously you have to pull the paper upwards to get down towards the bottom. And this is how natural scrolling works, the natural way..

Doesn't make much sense if you use a scrolling wheel, but on a trackpad it makes perfect sense and even though I didn't understand a **** the first hour or so I have started to hate scrolling the other way around after using the natural scroll for more than a few days.

 

[MonkeySee....]

This will become even easier as Apple has relented and will soon be making Lion available on a USB stick for $69 instead of the $29 download.

Threads like this always remind me of the infamous Thread 500 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-new-thing-ipod.500/ . Apple makes plenty of decisions that may look dumb on the surface, but are in fact two steps ahead of everyone else.

Front Row was neat when it first came out with Tiger, but Apple has essentially been ignoring it since then. I don't mourn its loss in Lion. The Hockey Puck TV with AirPlay is by far the best way of getting content from my Macs or iDevices onto a big screen.

If Blu Ray is really a driver for your decision, then simply don't consider a Mac.

You still have the option of buying your Mom the used Mini and running SL on it if Lion bothers you that much.

B

That thread is amazing. haha. Please tell me there is a similar one for the iphone you can link me to? *prays*

 

[RamGuy]

In regards of front row is was simply obsolete. Whom in the right mind used it in the first place when we have solutions like Plex, XBMC and Boxee?

If Apple take time and develop built in media centre solution out of the interface they've got on Apple TV2 we might be talking, but front row just lacked about everything..

 

[paulsalter]

Ironically, I for one find "natural scrolling" being just that. It seems and feels much more natural scrolling this way. Just think about it for a second, lets say you read your newspaper online and you want to scroll down to read the bottom, would you pull the paper up or down in order to read the lower parts? Obviously you have to pull the paper upwards to get down towards the bottom. And this is how natural scrolling works, the natural way..

but my screen isnt a piece of paper

If I want to read a page further down I am moving my mouse down the screen to go down (if you are reading through a document using the keyboard, which cursor key scrolls down, should it be the up one to show moving paper upwards)

If I am reading a paper document, I dont keep my eyes fixed and move the paper upwards, i move my eyes down the page

there are pluses and minuses for each, neither is the correct way, If I was intracting directly with the screen i would go for the new natural, if I am controling a pointer I think the original way is best

 

[MonkeySee....]

but my screen isnt a piece of paper

If I want to read a page further down I am moving my mouse down the screen to go down (if you are reading through a document using the keyboard, which cursor key scrolls down, should it be the up one to show moving paper upwards)

If I am reading a paper document, I dont keep my eyes fixed and move the paper upwards, i move my eyes down the page

there are pluses and minuses for each, neither is the correct way, If I was intracting directly with the screen i would go for the new natural, if I am controling a pointer I think the original way is best

If you use anything that has a scroll wheel then i agree it isn't natural but as far as gestures go on a touchpad its perfect as you are pushing the page in the direction you want it to move.

 

[0dev]

That thread is amazing. haha. Please tell me there is a similar one for the iphone you can link me to? *prays*

That thread is fantastic!

It's now at the online Apple Store!

$400 for an Mp3 Player!

I'd call it the Cube 2.0 as it wont sell, and be killed off in a short time...and it's not really functional.

Uuhh Steve, can I have a PDA now?

Fantastic! And let's not forget what Alan Sugar said in 2003 about iPod becoming "kaput by next Christmas"

There were several threads talking the same sort of crap about the iPhone, just search for the word "iPhone" for threads from 2007 and you'll find 'em, I'm sure.

Anyway, once Lion get's its first update (I never buy an OS unless the initial launch bugs have been sorted), I'll probably buy the USB stick.

 

[fortheloveofmac]

but my screen isnt a piece of paper

If I want to read a page further down I am moving my mouse down the screen to go down (if you are reading through a document using the keyboard, which cursor key scrolls down, should it be the up one to show moving paper upwards)

If I am reading a paper document, I dont keep my eyes fixed and move the paper upwards, i move my eyes down the page

there are pluses and minuses for each, neither is the correct way, If I was intracting directly with the screen i would go for the new natural, if I am controling a pointer I think the original way is best

It took most of us like >2 days to get used to. Try it. Or, go about what you were doing.

 

[METOO999]

- I can only download Mac OS Lion
- I need Show Leopard in order to upgrade because that's the only other OS with the app store functionality required to download Lion
- If I don't have Snow Leopard, I must purchase and install it in order to upgrade to Lion
- They've eliminated Front Row so as to make Apple TV more enticing
- They've also eliminated Rosetta meaning my more than capable copy of MS Office 2004 must be upgraded to the whatever bloated piece junk M$ is now selling.
- Blu-ray is still a "big bag of hurt"

Front Row has always been a piece of junk, no loss there. I've been using XBMC for awhile and I haven't looked back. I don't know if Office 2011 is bloated, but it's certainly faster than 2004 version on SL and Lion. Blu-ray support still stinks, but at least Toast supports.

 

[DarkestRitual]

If you use anything that has a scroll wheel then i agree it isn't natural but as far as gestures go on a touchpad its perfect as you are pushing the page in the direction you want it to move.

ironically, after having used natural scrolling since 11a390 (I bought smartscroll for snow leopard afterwards, too to get the functionality back), I find myself trying to scroll up on a scroll wheel to move the page down... oops!

 

[Macknife]

You do know whats coming?

If you think this is a big deal then you better watch out for what the future has in store for you. Everyone is embracing the Cloud and it is the biggest change that will ever hit computers, gaming and media(movies/music).

Imagine never owning a CD or DVD or Blu-ray. Imagine never owning a piece of software ever again. Imagine never buying games for your consoles or even gaming consoles that are just about free because there is no real hardware in them.

Sound ridiculous? Well hold on to your pants. Services like OnLive are available that allow you to play games streamed off of a Cloud server. The plan is to sale a box with a controller that just streams video games from the server to your TV. You send input via your controller and the command goes to the game running on the The Cloud server. Video is then streamed back to your box that displays the game play on your TV.

What does this imply for the future? Games will no longer be pirated, no longer come on disc, resold or rented by game stores.

Lets take it further. Imagine you turn on your PC it net boots to the internet connects to Apple/Microsoft server and your computer connects to the cloud server and your OS is running on the Cloud. You type and click but your not actually doing it on your computer. You are just controlling your OS running on the Cloud server. The video is just being sent to your dumb terminal. You no longer have to buy the OS you rent it each time you turn on your computer your credit card gets dinged with a charge.

Lets push this even further. All the software you run will stream off the cloud and you rent it as you need it. Media is already being streamed or purchasable, but imagine if you pay for a movie or song but it gets streamed to your device or computer. Your account stores what you have paid for and lets you use it but you never have a physical copy. Any device you turn on that has your login information will be able to access the software, media or game.

You are now saying this is nuts and isn't going to happen, but you are wrong it is happening and the main benefit is total control of their Intellectual Property. Since you never have a copy you cannot pirate or redistribute it. Every time you watch a movie, listen to music, launch an application, start your PC you could potentially be sent a bill for the rental of that IP for the day or month etc.. It's all about pure profit and total control of their IP.

So while it is cool to be able to buy things off the app store, just ask yourself why are companies like Amazon, Apple, Microsoft etc are rushing to implement Cloud services. The faster you implement the faster the transition to change will occur. You will be so dependent on the basic features of The Cloud that when these other changes occur you will not have any choice but to go along with it.

Here is an example of this paradigm shift. Remember online gaming, we used to play games online for free. MMO games started the trend of charging a monthly service to play online and people soon adopted this. Further proof is game systems like xbox 360 and xbox live which force you to pay a fee to play online. The technology is fed to the kiddies who do not know any other way and it soon becomes mainstream.

Other aspects where this type of shift occurs can be seen in the job market. I used to get 100% matching on my 401K but the new graduates desperate for a job accept the 50% matching on 401K and now it is the new standard for job offers. Don't be surprised when its down to 25% in the very near future.

So OP while your complaints are valid an even bigger storm is coming with the advent of The Cloud.

 

[scottsjack]

So OP while your complaints are valid an even bigger storm is coming with the advent of The Cloud.

Cloud computing only comes on strong if users embrace it. Why someone would want their info only available online or to be able to use a computer only when they're online is beyond me?

Maybe I'm one of the old timers not willing to embrace the Great Steve's new world order of computing. I would just rather have control over both my hardware and software. And yes that even means physical copies of hardware. I just received my Office for Mac 2011 DVD in an attractive little box even though I've been using the trial version for a week or so and could have easily bought the whole thing online.

 

[Macknife]

Cloud computing only comes on strong if users embrace it. Why someone would want their info only available online or to be able to use a computer only when they're online is beyond me?

Maybe I'm one of the old timers not willing to embrace the Great Steve's new world order of computing. I would just rather have control over both my hardware and software. And yes that even means physical copies of hardware. I just received my Office for Mac 2011 DVD in an attractive little box even though I've been using the trial version for a week or so and could have easily bought the whole thing online.

I feel the same way about having a physical copy. You have to realize its not Apple thats bringing this change but every industry that is currently using the internet to distribute their Intellectual Property. It's going to come to a point where you won't have a choice but use the Cloud because there will be no other way to obtain your movie, music, games, software.

 

[BBC Model B]

And yes that even means physical copies of hardware. I just received my Office for Mac 2011 DVD in an attractive little box even though I've been using the trial version for a week or so and could have easily bought the whole thing online.

Physical copies of hardware are the only type.

Will you use your Office DVD at least once a week? I imagine not. So what's the point? Downloads don't get lost. Or scratched. It takes time to go cold turkey on physical media. Some will adapt more quickly than others. I have. And I still buy physical if it is cheaper. Blu-ray from Amazon is usually cheaper than HD from iTunes. I'd prefer it if not though. Discs need to be stored somewhere*. Downloads don't.

*Usually in the loft after they have been copied to iTunes.

 

[KnightsChivalry]

Mcdonald79, we need to have a chat. Apple is like everything else in the world. It is making advancements. I don't see you going out to buy a new car and bitching at a sales person for not having a 8 track player in a 2011 (pick your choice of car). Things upgrade, this includes computers. Apple is just staying ahead of everyone else. Microsoft 2004 is a little outdated but look at the bright side, you got 7 years out of it.

The advancements that Apple has made for our benefit is unbelievable. And here you are bitching at them for trying to make the best product available to us. You are a real numbskull. Get with the times and update and quit your whining. Or... if you want to complain, get a PC and come back in a year and tell us your "amazing" time with how much better it is.