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So Long Internet Explorer?

To quelch some peoples worries. Apple currently has no ties with Microsoft they deal has been over for a few months now. If Microsoft plays the crush game with Apple expect to get a fight. Apple has big guns for example a PC compatible system. Also it wouldn't take a lot from Apple to use the open source office and develop Appleworks into what it should have been all along. Meanwhile they could really play ball and start developing this stuff for PCs. Can you imagine Apples design and functionality on a PC compatible AppleWorks that's fully Office compatible?

The point is I think Apple is ready for battle and we do not need Microsoft.
 
If Apple introduced their own internet browser, it will be better than anything we've ever used. Why? Apple is a company of innovation. Since OS X was introduced, the apps that Apple has made are more powerful and user friendly than their clunky PC counterparts. Apple has some of the best programmers and engineers in the WORLD and M$ knows that.

Apple would most likely integrate the broswer into their .Mac strategy, therefore making our digital lifestyles easier to organize and to get information.
 
this is NO big suprise this happened since ms/apple's contract ran out in june or july so it may mean apple is cutting off the 5 or so year ties slowly but gradually, first by including mail.app since the original version of osx, then ichat, then maybe ibrowse/something similar, then an appleworks office suite then they'll be without ms ties then...
but ms is starting to get rid of ie integration now, i installed sp1 on xp the other day, and in the add/remove, i unchecked "allow this program to run" or something like that for ie, and then it removed access to ie from the puter so it wont take over links i want to be performed in mozilla...buttttt if u type in a web url in win explorer it will still work...
i think apple should also include a netscape browser (NS 7) or chimera or somethin based on mozilla included as an alternative to ie...
 
Originally posted by nuckinfutz
You will not see a browser faster than IE in Windows ever because IE is basically embedded into the OS. This gives it better access to the internals and the speed advantage is very noticeable. However, crash IE and your system can easily become unstable. I did it last night.
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Actually, I use Mozilla 1.0 and IE 5.5 at work and Mozilla is as fast or faster. It's also less buggy (can't speak to IE 6 as we haven't upgraded to it here)

I use Mozilla on OS X 10.1 at home right now but it doesn't "feel" as stable or fast as Mac IE (the only reason I switched was due to SSL security holes in IE on both Mac and Windows: see IE SSL Security Hole )
 
Originally posted by Foocha
I used to think that it was a terrible idea for Apple to develop their own browser (and let's face it, Cyberdog was a terrible browser).
Click to expand...

That's because it wasn't a browser, it was a OpenDoc container. It looked like a duck, and it quacked like a duck, but under it's feathers CyberDog was no duck.
 
Re: Oh boy.

Originally posted by jhalmos
This is a bad idea. Apple needs the direct competition as well as connection to M$ to be considered a serious contender. If Apple thinks that StarOffice, or, god forbid, AppleWorks can replace Office they are completely out to lunch. Office X was a miricle and a credibility move for Apple at the time and while there's the usual M$ bugs in it (PPT suffers considerably in Jag) the damn thing is an essential package for Apple. Especially after the Apple division of M$ made such grand and early efforts to get on board the OSX train. And Chimera, good lord, it's still a zygot. Jobs will lose serious points if he's got the idea that now that the deal is done that he can go kick sand in their faces. Perhaps M$ HAS to keep producing Office for another OS to keep out of jail, but Apple taking advantage of that will only hurt themselves. Apple/Jobs have often made these sorts of huge branding/strategy blunders. Let's hope they've predicted the future acurately, and that my worries are wrong wrong wrong.
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You don't watch much news do you? Dell and HP are dropping MS Office in favor of Corel WordPerfect. MS Office days are numbered.
 
Surprised no one had asked- Why in MWSF? Panther isn't due out by then. So is it because the all new macs won't ship with IE?
 
Re: Re: Oh boy.

Originally posted by Kid Red


You don't watch much news do you? Dell and HP are dropping MS Office in favor of Corel WordPerfect. MS Office days are numbered.
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yep...the darn activation process isnt popular at all....i think corel should join up with sun and apple to create the new apple office suite or whatever...corel seems to be doing fine lately ever since they sold off their linux os...
 
Originally posted by arn


I think the Apple-Microsoft relationship is already soured.

Jobs and Schiller have been taking shots at them all year... and the Mac business unit guy from Microsoft has even made threats about discontinuing Office if it doesn't sell. And Apple took a jab right back.

plus, with the Switch campaign, they've ben very agressive.

Apple may be trying to position themselves... hopefully they can back it up.

arn
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ooh FIGHT :p
 
I would just like to point out that Apple has had Netscape and not IE in the dock in a print ad, and they used Chimera at the Xserve release event.
 
Good ridance

My mac is Micro$oft free as I write this.

I use OmniWeb and Chimera instead of IE. (I deleted I.E. out of my application folder, I also deleted some of the fonts out of my fonts folder that had Microsoft copyright notices) So far I haven't run across any site that at least one of these browsers will support properly. If they won't, screw them; I'll use another site.

Also, piss on Microsoft for charging hundreds of dollars for Office X. AppleWorks works fine for me.

Also, screw Windows Media Player. Who needs their proprietary formats and Bill's Digital Rights Management.
 
its about money

If Corel, Apple, Sun, et al can do something with a new browser of a Unix flavor, and that adheres to w3 standards, there may be a chance to get some of M$ market share.
Apple has 4% - they can only get more users, and M$ does appear to be crumbling a little bit.

There is a M$ killer app or machine somewhere in the future......maybe Apple will find it, maybe its a new co. out there.


Its going to be interesting...........Apple might as well go for the whole thing: browser, office suite, PC software, etc.
 
Sorry I didn't get my point across very clearly and this isn't trying to argue against anyone's comments.

It doesn't matter if MSN is the #1 instant msg prog or not, if someone is using this software and so are their friends they want to be able to use it on different platforms. It doesn't matter if it's good or not (to a certain extend).

Yes there are lots of alteratives for mice but it does appear that people are keen on their M$ mice.

The problem with almost everyone here, myself included is that we are all to computer literate. We know there are alterative browsers, my PC runs IE, Netscape and Opera while my Mac runs all the current favs and non favs. Unfortunately the majority of users just use what is given to them. It's an assumption that as it's included it is probably the best. Obviously the best solution is to provide everyone with everything but that just won't happen (bad marketting).

Yes Office is the most important product in terms of the Mac platform. It would not be anti-competative of M$ to withdraw it due to the fact that they have tried to sell a product on a platform and the people running the platform are not making it viable, especially if they actively seek to produce an alterative as a direct competitor.

Sorry to sound preachy, I am probably sounding like a huge M$ supporter when that is not really true. It just annoys me when people like Steve Jobs acts like a 5 year old and unfortunately runs a company where his personal dislike affects a good number of people. If Apple really want to become the best they should be looking to maximise links with other companies to make things better for the consumer.

Unfortunately I don't have a solution but I'm pretty sure of actions that would not be in the best interest of both current and potential users.
 
This rumor is stupid. It's obviously the result of someone having a bug up their *** about Microsoft. The bottom line is that there are many, much bigger things for Apple to spend time, money and resources on.

Newsflash...no revenue comes from making browsers.

This isn't like other iApps where money comes from the sell of the OS and hardware because of cool Mac-unique applications. This is a browser we're talking about. Move on, no revenue to be found here.

Think about it people...most of the major sites are designed and for the latest couple of versions of Explorer for Windows. Any new browser is going to have to not only be a better browser, but what it really needs to be is a better Explorer than Explorer. HTML standards are totally meaningless (sad, but true). The vast majority of sites work fine on Explorer for the Mac, and while some don't render just right, Explorer for the Mac remains the #2 most compatible browser.

Explorer is *not* that bad on the Mac. Even without rendering as intended, other features of Explorer still make it better than its competitors on the Mac. You may disagree, but personally other than speed and that it's about 99% compatible, I find Explorer much better on the Mac...certainly more reliable, and I love being able to customize the toolbar and other things not available on the Windows version.

While Explorer could be better on the Mac. I really don't think Apple could develop a better Explorer without diverting huge amounts of resources from other things that would much better improve the OS, iApps and/or increase revenue.

Oh, and that whole "not pissing off Microsoft, AOL and a slew of 3rd party developers" thing.
 
But StarOffice sucks.

Apple might strive to bring StarOffice to OS X as an alternative to AppleWorks and MS Office, but StarOffice, as anyone who has ever used it knows, sucks. It does not even begin to come anywhere near a replacement for MS Office.

And as for moving from IE... I run several sites professionally and "on the side" and all of them report an 80/20 ratio of IE to "other" users. Even in its latest form, Netscape/Mozilla still doesn't render pages out there as well as IE. Netscape always has and still does have real problems with complex table structure. To stop at least a portion of the arguments that will no doubt come at me becuase of my traiterous comments, let me point out a few things:

- I would rather I didn't feel a MS browser was superior

- Coding complex DHTML is a pain in the ass becuase IE's model (considered "the standard") is superior and quite different from Netscape's. Anything you code for the browser that serves 80% of the users out there, you must entirely re-code for the < 20% of folks that use Netscape and its derivatives.

- Netscape can't render tables properly

- IE is more forgiving about bad HTML. Sure -- "a web designer should produce good HTML, obviously." Yes, it's obvious. But they don't. So for lots of improperly designed sites out there, IE renders them in a manner that is more coherent. Call this a "feature" of IE on the plus side.

- IE is more stable than NS / Mozilla / Chimera

- I am a professional web developer. At several employers over the past few years there have been project managers that made the call to code something for IE and not to bother with a NS translation, so many folks in a given org were using IE. That perpetuates IE's dominance, but that is a management decision. It has nothing to do with "lazy developers" as, again, it's a management decision. Bad managers? Ok. You give me a paycheck then.

- My world as a developer would be improved if (when) NS goes away.


Thoughts?



blakespot
 
Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by blakespot
...
- Netscape can't render tables properly
...
- IE is more stable than NS / Mozilla / Chimera
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Interesting points. Having used Mozilla extensively, my experience is different. Can you point me to a page with complex tables that Mozilla can't render? My experience has actually been that Mozilla can render anything IE can, and is many times faster with tables, but maybe I just haven't gone to a site with complex tables.

Here is one I use all the time: TV Guide Satellite Listings

Is that not "complex"? I am not clear.

Also, on my machine Mozilla has been far more stable than IE since 0.98 or so. I recognize that these things vary from machine to machine--IE is much more stable on my wife's old iBook than on my TiBook.

Lastly, many have blamed the sloppy html on FrontPage and the fact that it looks okay in IE--their argument being that if IE was more rigid about W3C compliance, more browsers would work flawlessly, and IE wouldn't have such a stranglehold on the market (another M$ conspiracy). While these folks may also believe Buss Aldrin has never reached the moon, I am curious what your take is on this.

Good to see you back.

Chris
 
Re: Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by chmorley
Interesting points. Having used Mozilla extensively, my experience is different. Can you point me to a page with complex tables that Mozilla can't render? My experience has actually been that Mozilla can render anything IE can, and is many times faster with tables, but maybe I just haven't gone to a site with complex tables.

Here is one I use all the time: TV Guide Satellite Listings

Is that not "complex"? I am not clear.

Also, on my machine Mozilla has been far more stable than IE since 0.98 or so. I recognize that these things vary from machine to machine--IE is much more stable on my wife's old iBook than on my TiBook.

Lastly, many have blamed the sloppy html on FrontPage and the fact that it looks okay in IE--their argument being that if IE was more rigid about W3C compliance, more browsers would work flawlessly, and IE wouldn't have such a stranglehold on the market (another M$ conspiracy). While these folks may also believe Buss Aldrin has never reached the moon, I am curious what your take is on this.

Good to see you back.

Chris
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Send any of the IE alternatives on to a Java heavy page and a) watch them crash or b) they will not handle it properly.

This is my problem with IE alternatives. As much as I despise IE there is no alternative to date with the Java support that it has.
 
Re: Re: Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by MacBandit
Send any of the IE alternatives on to a Java heavy page and a) watch them crash or b) they will not handle it properly.

This is my problem with IE alternatives. As much as I despise IE there is no alternative to date with the Java support that it has.
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I have been frustrated by this in the past, myself. I am not sure it's true anymore. Can you point me to a page that will crash Mozilla?

Chris
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by chmorley
I have been frustrated by this in the past, myself. I am not sure it's true anymore. Can you point me to a page that will crash Mozilla?

Chris
Click to expand...

I don't know it turned me off so much I haven't used the latest version of Mozilla. I've been reading the update text for all the alternatives waiting to see one that says they have drastically improved Java support.

Try this for me.

http://SkyandTelescope.com/observing/skychart/

Then click on view sky chart. This hasn't worked for me with any Mac browser.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by MacBandit
I don't know it turned me off so much I haven't used the latest version of Mozilla. I've been reading the update text for all the alternatives waiting to see one that says they have drastically improved Java support.

Try this for me.

http://SkyandTelescope.com/observing/skychart/

Then click on view sky chart. This hasn't worked for me with any Mac browser.
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True enough. Got an error in Chimera and crashed Mozilla 1.1.

Yes, the java support continues to improve, but it's not at all perfect.

Thanks for the heads up.

Chris
 
SkyChart

Just for grins, I tried it in IE, as well. I know you stated that you haven't gotten it to work in any Mac browser, but wanted to see the different ways it crapped out. Interestingly, I got the same error message I had gotten in Chimera (and OmniWeb, BTW):

java.lang.ClassFormatError: SkyChart (Bad magic number)

While this is still frustrating, it is not clear where the problem is coming from. Is it the Mac Virtual Machine (MRJ)? Is it a poorly coded site?

Nonetheless, it ends up not being Mozilla/NS-centric.

Is there another site that works in IE but not Mozilla?

Chris
 
Funny thing is, IE 5.1 Macintosh Edition is still the most W3C standards based browser around. I don't know of any other browser that supports CSS2 quite as well. The sad thing is that these days W3C standards don't seem as important as Microsoft standards.

In my opinion Mozilla is now looking like a worthy contender to the IE, and with the combined support of Apple adopting it on the Mac platform and AOL Time Warner finally adopting it on AOL, Web developers might start taking W3C standards seriously again.

I dream of the day when all Web formatting is handled with CSS - the widespread adoption of an alternative to IE might just bring that day forward.
 
Chimera is the most OS X'est browser out there. It'd be great if Apple supported it the way it's supporting IE now.
 
Sherlock Vs. Apple Broswer

Does anyone else think it's funny that Apple just changed Sherlock using it soley for the web and calls it "web services for the rest of us" so you can get soooo much information without having to open a broswer, but yet they are now making a browser.....anyways just a though that crossed my mind and it probably wont matter to anyone else that reads it. As a matter fact it doesnt matter to me anymore.......:eek:
 
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