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So Long Internet Explorer?

Originally posted by tfaz1
Chimera is the most OS X'est browser out there. It'd be great if Apple supported it the way it's supporting IE now.
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"Most OS X'est" is a bit curious a descriptor, but if my gut understanding of what you mean is correct, I would say OmniWeb takes it. OmniWeb existed under NeXTSTEP, the OS on which OS X is based. I have it running on the NeXTStation to my right here. Seems that would give it that hat to wear.


blakespot
 
Re: Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by chmorley
Interesting points. Having used Mozilla extensively, my experience is different. Can you point me to a page with complex tables that Mozilla can't render? My experience has actually been that Mozilla can render anything IE can, and is many times faster with tables, but maybe I just haven't gone to a site with complex tables.

Here is one I use all the time: TV Guide Satellite Listings

Is that not "complex"? I am not clear.
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No, I do not consider that a complex table. Supercomplex nested tables are often there to lend structure to a page and the fact that such a table structure in place ideally is not noticeable to the vasual visitor. Almost all of the complex tables I have made fall under this classification.

Also, on my machine Mozilla has been far more stable than IE since 0.98 or so. I recognize that these things vary from machine to machine--IE is much more stable on my wife's old iBook than on my TiBook.
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This is not the case for me.

Lastly, many have blamed the sloppy html on FrontPage and the fact that it looks okay in IE--their argument being that if IE was more rigid about W3C compliance, more browsers would work flawlessly, and IE wouldn't have such a stranglehold on the market (another M$ conspiracy). While these folks may also believe Buss Aldrin has never reached the moon, I am curious what your take is on this.
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Well, they can blame sloppy HTML on that if they like. The cause is moot. The fact that there is lots of sloppy HTML out there is the reality, and a browser that can deal with it better is a better browser. A better browser in the real world.

Good to see you back.
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Thanks. Just been busy.



blakespot
 
Re: SkyChart

Originally posted by chmorley
Just for grins, I tried it in IE, as well. I know you stated that you haven't gotten it to work in any Mac browser, but wanted to see the different ways it crapped out. Interestingly, I got the same error message I had gotten in Chimera (and OmniWeb, BTW):

java.lang.ClassFormatError: SkyChart (Bad magic number)

While this is still frustrating, it is not clear where the problem is coming from. Is it the Mac Virtual Machine (MRJ)? Is it a poorly coded site?

Nonetheless, it ends up not being Mozilla/NS-centric.

Is there another site that works in IE but not Mozilla?

Chris
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I don't know of any currently because I haven't been running anything but IE. Java and W3 compliance are key to a good browser in this day and age as I see it.
 
i've always used IE on the Mac. it seems OK to me. maybe i just don't know any better. i've never tried any of the other "underground" browsers. are they really that much better?
 
It's always puzzled me why Microsoft bothered to make IE for the mac. It's kind of like MSN for OS X... why??? or OS X running under MOL running on Linux for PPC... it has never made sense to me and I guess it never will.

My IE rants:

- It can't do win2k proxy authentication properly over a LAN. It dies every time you click a link. No exaggeration. Also, none of the images ever load.

- It can't do Java properly. Not to say that browsers like chimchim are necessarily better, just that Java support under OS X just sucks. But Java sucks IMO newayz.

- It doesn't do ActiveX at all.

- It doesn't do VBScript. Not even simple stuff like redirects (yes, web developers should use <meta refresh> instead, but you have to realize that ppl using any microsoft web technologies are pretty stupid).

- You'll be browsing a webpage and half of the page will suddenly disappear.

- You type in a new address or click a link while the current page is loading and IE just kinda ignores you... It's like "yeah, i'll get round to it".

- You'll click the Stop button and IE again, ignores you. You click it again. And again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Same result. IE says "You will wait!!" (and get repetitive strain injury in the meantime)

...Basically using IE makes me feel like Ellen Feiss -- "And then I was like....huh?". Thankfully, i'm not that stoned :)

...And it doesn't support any of Microsoft's OWN web technologies. Not to say other browsers do, but WTF is the point of having an MS browser which doesn't work with other MS stuff???


Also, its W3C compliance is just $#!+. IEmac is the only browser which displays AmbitiousLemon.com incorrectly. Basically, because IE doesn't do <div>'s correctly. And it sucks at complex table structure. Duke, take a look at our page and check out IE's suckage factor vs. something decent like chimchim, moz, ns7 or even ow.
 
Show me another browser that handles CSS selectors as comprehensively as IE Macintosh Edition.
 
Originally posted by Foocha
If you master CSS, you don't need complex table structures.
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Ahh, now all I need to do is contact the webmaster of every page that does not render correctly under Netscape/Mozilla/Chimera and get them to become masters of CSS and then I won't need to run IE any longer.

This is the point I've been trying to make---idealism must be throw out the window when it comes to the issue of dealing with the web as it _actually_ exists _today_.



blakespot
 
IE 4, 5 & 6 for Windows; Netscape 6 & 7; IE 5+ Macintosh Edition all provide reasonable support for CSS.

It's not idealism - CSS is a practical, standards-based solution to many formatting issues which exist in the real world today. Too many convoluted ulgy nested table structures are unnecessarily created today when a short, elegant CSS style would do the job just as well.
 
Originally posted by j763

- You'll be browsing a webpage and half of the page will suddenly disappear.

- You type in a new address or click a link while the current page is loading and IE just kinda ignores you... It's like "yeah, i'll get round to it".

- You'll click the Stop button and IE again, ignores you. You click it again. And again. Again. Again. Again. Again. Same result. IE says "You will wait!!" (and get repetitive strain injury in the meantime)
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The webpage disappears when loading and during many other situations. I agree this is totally sh*t. You can make it reappear for good by simply resizing the window basically forcing it to redraw. This has been a problem under OSX only and it has been with every version of OSX so it must be a matter of Microsoft's implementation.

I find that usually IE responds fairly quickly especially when you're redirecting during a current page load. The stop button doesn't always work but for those times a window close does.

I do find that I prefer IE on a Mac over a PC when it comes to typing in a web address during a load. This is because you will be right at the end of typing in the address on a PC and it will finish loading the previous page and it will rewrite the whole address bar to show the current loaded page. I can't tell you how many times this has pissed me off and made me want to pitch the damn PC across the room. It wouldn't be a problem if I weren't use to IE for the Mac because it doesn't do that.
 
Re: But StarOffice sucks.

Originally posted by blakespot

...
- IE is more stable than NS / Mozilla / Chimera

- My world as a developer would be improved if (when) NS goes away.

...
blakespot
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Your first term is A B S O L U T E L L Y false. There is a lot of pages, whose contents appear/desappear randomly under MSIE for Mac. Example. Go to Oracle, Donloads, Oracle 9i Database and try it.

MSIE´s JavaScript in really awfull. JAVA running too.

There´s a lot of pages crashing MSIE.

All of them works on Mozilla, NS7, of course (and I'm not deffending them, because they've a so bad history to our plattform).

And I've no seen a incorrect table render in Mozilla or NS7. Please, send us one.


And I think that the solution isn't to go away any browser. The solution is to claim for standar browser implementations.


Ciao.;)
 
Chimera Navigator

What a cool thread this is turning out to be.

I'm fairly new to Macdom (having only bought a Powerbook at the beginning of the year) having been a Windows users for 15 years. I'm heavily involved in Internet browsing and use IE 6 on a Windows PC. The browser is excellent, smooth and supports all manner of web technologies.

However, I think Chimera is excellent.. maybe because of the Aqua interface (and most importantly the standards applied). You've got to appeciate that it's still only 0.4.0 and although based on the Mozilla 1.1 foundation (which in itself has some way to come yet I feel) is still very buggy.

I was impressed that applet support in IE 5.2 for OSX appeared, as that was most frustrating and was primarily the reason why I kept going back to IE 6 on i386 for on-line banking etc..

I'm aware that a good portion of developers tap into the the 'unique' fucntionality of IE in order to do DHTML, content editable DIVs etc.. in order to get cool sites together. These are things that Chimera will need to be able to deal with if it is to become more successful. (Infact Chimera for Windows would be interesting.. but I wont go there.. the browser war is effectively won).

This is an interesting move by Apple, and a browser would make a welcom addition to the 'i' apps line of products. However, the Internet continues to be Microsoft's stomping ground (as XBox online demonstrates) and Apple would be wise o tread carefully.
 
Since Chimera is simple Mozilla with a Cocoa UI, it's not something that you'll ever see on Windows. Use another version of Mozilla instead!
 
Somebody should start a net poll not one here on the boards to let Apple know the Mac communities feelings on how bad we want a Apple branded browser. It's one thing to listen to the Rumors and believe they are going to provide us with one just because it makes since. It's another thing to take action and let Apple know we really want/need one.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
Somebody should start a net poll not one here on the boards to let Apple know the Mac communities feelings on how bad we want a Apple branded browser. It's one thing to listen to the Rumors and believe they are going to provide us with one just because it makes since. It's another thing to take action and let Apple know we really want/need one.
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That we actually want one or need one is not that cut and dried an issue. There are a lot of compelling reasons why there should not be an "Apple branded" browser.

That we will probably have one or more viable alternatives to MSIE that fold in more tightly with the way the OS works is probably a given. Whether or not the Apple label is on it really doesn't matter. It will probably be a heck of a lot like Chimera / Mozilla when it happens, and probably rely on open source development for much of its upkeep.

I juggle about three browsers regularly, others on occasion, and sometimes the reason I am using a particular browser has less to do with its feature set, and where it hesitates or excels on the web, than with the cookies, bookmarks, and plug-ins I have built up into that application through regular or specific use and set up.
 
Originally posted by Wry Cooter


That we actually want one or need one is not that cut and dried an issue. There are a lot of compelling reasons why there should not be an "Apple branded" browser.

That we will probably have one or more viable alternatives to MSIE that fold in more tightly with the way the OS works is probably a given. Whether or not the Apple label is on it really doesn't matter. It will probably be a heck of a lot like Chimera / Mozilla when it happens, and probably rely on open source development for much of its upkeep.

I juggle about three browsers regularly, others on occasion, and sometimes the reason I am using a particular browser has less to do with its feature set, and where it hesitates or excels on the web, than with the cookies, bookmarks, and plug-ins I have built up into that application through regular or specific use and set up.
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The main reason I push for an Apple backed browser is simply to accelerate the developement of Chimera or another type of browser. The development of Chimera for me is going way to slow. I want to dump IE today but for the previously listed reasons I am stuck with it.
 
Originally posted by MacBandit


The main reason I push for an Apple backed browser is simply to accelerate the developement of Chimera or another type of browser. The development of Chimera for me is going way to slow. I want to dump IE today but for the previously listed reasons I am stuck with it.
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There may be such motions behind the scenes as it is; publicity or official branding is not really going to speed this along. You don't have to have run polls and turn on the public marketing machine to make this happen.
 
Originally posted by Wry Cooter


There may be such motions behind the scenes as it is; publicity or official branding is not really going to speed this along. You don't have to have run polls and turn on the public marketing machine to make this happen.
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It can help if there is any question in Apples mind. Remember Apple develops products all the time right up to the point of production and then backs out. This is a common industry practice. Letting them know that we want this can help prevent them from dropping the ball.
 
ill gates is a magician.yes ill gates.
first he steals everything and sells what no one does.
2nd he sold windows to people,a car with no engines and no looks.
but i truly hope that the day will come when microsoft will be all alone , just like the bully that hits everyone until everyone gets tired about him and they all get together against him.
i want fair competition and msft is not giving anyone this fair competition.
 
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