MP All Models So long, old friend.

[avkills]

Maybe in 100 years I can finally get my money back.

 

[avro707]

I used to enjoy picking computer parts and building and tinkering and maintaining, even overclocking and undervolting. Now I just see no point in it.

Aside from the cost of parts for the computer, I would say that it's better now because the components are superior. The cases now are way better designed, I look at some of the builds people do and they are just so much neater. Not Mac Pro level because that needs an entire bespoke system design to minimise cable clutter, but they are getting pretty nice now.

The cases are much nicer now too. Fractal North for instance.

 

[flowrider]

Thanks. I really enjoyed that video. Gave me a good laugh 👍

I did not laugh - I became more angry🤬

Lou

 

[Regulus67]

I did not laugh - I became more angry🤬

Lou

Sorry to hear that. I thought the humour was brilliant.

I would have had a different reaction if Apple had made the video. And to be honest, I've been annoyed by Apple iPhone videos several times in the past, and the "Mother Earth" chastising Apple presentation 😖
So Apple's general direction lately, is not something I enjoy.
But I appreciate good humour, and love having a good laugh, even at myself 😀 Not to many things to laugh at these days, are there?

edit: I love the Mac Pro 7,1, and own three with standard chase, no rack version. Doubt the video would have given me so much joy, if it were for a mac that didn't mean anything to me

 

[Flint Ironstag]

... you really used to have to be an enthusiast to get a good computing experience. Now even the most basic Mac is good.

8GB RAM and 256GB storage is good? 🤣

 

[orbitalpunk]

I had mac pro's since 2006 but after getting burned with the 2013 i just bought a PC with Nvidia for gaming and animation. I still have my M1 Mini but i just use it for screen sharing with family when they need computer help and syncing my iPhone library. 2023 Mac Pro's were doomed with no real video card. I've tamed Windows enough to be happy with it. The perfect computer would be an apple Mac Pro and a Nvidia 5090 but it will never exist and linux just gets in the way of my work. So a de-bloated Windows it is. Still, this is sad news to hear.

 

[avro707]

The perfect computer would be an apple Mac Pro and a Nvidia 5090

That I can do here using windows.

But it’s a pain having different GPUs for different operating systems. The 5090 for both would just do perfect.

I don’t have to upgrade yet as my two 7,1s are still running well. So I’m kicking the can down the road so to speak.

For me I’m primarily more concerned to spend money on getting off grid with power. First steps worked well, now it’s just increasing capacity.

 

[teh_hunterer]

8GB RAM and 256GB storage is good? 🤣

For the money, sure. When could you ever walk into a store and throw $500 of 2026 buying power at a computer and get something that competent? Never.

Most computers used to be complete garbage. You had to be intelligent and keep upgrading all the time and do things yourself. Remember how slow hard drives were when your operating system was on them?

You can actually do heaps of stuff on a Neo, and it's generally snappy and a pleasure to use, even if both of us would prefer to spend more to get more of the niceties and power and capacity that's important to us.

 

[m1maverick]

That is not what I am saying. My point is that I find Windows to be unusable in its default state. A clean install takes a really long time to setup and you have to deactivate a lot of bullsһit before it is usable. Of course you can do this with a utility, but then you have to trust that utility, which again, takes time.

Can you elaborate on this? What, in its default state, makes it unusable? I have Windows 11 on the system I am typing this response on and I didn't have to do anything to it. It's perfectly useable as is.

Now are there things I dislike about it? You bet, there's a lot. But default state useability is not one of them.

 

[maflynn]

Now are there things I dislike about it? You bet, there's a lot. But default state useability is not one of them.

Yeah, as someone who has spent a lot of time using windows both personally and professionally. Windows is fine in many respects.

I agree that there's a lot of things wrong, as mentioned the telemetry, the AI bloat, but the state of windows is that its generally useable.

Also there's options to quite easily debloat and streamline the OS.

With that said, I'm largely using Linux for my desktop, cachyos to be specific. I find that distro to better fit my usage needs

 

[mode11]

The cases too are much nicer now too. Fractal North for instance.

Yeah, that's what I use. Mesh version, in black. With a dual-fan tower heatsink, a triple fan graphics card and undervolted CPU and GPU, it's very quiet. Lives under the desk anyway.

 

[zephonic]

For the money, sure. When could you ever walk into a store and throw $500 of 2026 buying power at a computer and get something that competent? Never.

Most computers used to be complete garbage. You had to be intelligent and keep upgrading all the time and do things yourself. Remember how slow hard drives were when your operating system was on them?

You can actually do heaps of stuff on a Neo, and it's generally snappy and a pleasure to use, even if both of us would prefer to spend more to get more of the niceties and power and capacity that's important to us.

💯

I have a $600 Asus laptop and it screams low budget. And Windows update prompts are annoyingly intrusive.

The Neo looks and feels like a premium product at an unbeatable price. I think it is a great gateway drug to seduce people into the Apple ecosystem.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

💯

I have a $600 Asus laptop and it screams low budget. And Windows update prompts are annoyingly intrusive.

The Neo looks and feels like a premium product at an unbeatable price. I think it is a great gateway drug to seduce people into the Apple ecosystem.

When I get around to scheduling a vision pro demo, I'll bring a flash drive to test one of these neos.

 

[maflynn]

I have a $600 Asus laptop and it screams low budget.
...
The Neo looks and feels like a premium product at an unbeatable price

Agreed and this is why PC makers are very concerned.

I think it is a great gateway drug to seduce people into the Apple ecosystem.

If you mean more apple products - I'm not sure, if you mean apple services, like icloud, then yes. If a person's needs are fulfilled with the Neo, I don't see them upgrading to a higher end laptop from apple, so that's why I'm unsure it translates into higher sales down the road, but for non-hardware stuff, it certainly can.

 

[zephonic]

If you mean more apple products - I'm not sure, if you mean apple services, like icloud, then yes. If a person's needs are fulfilled with the Neo, I don't see them upgrading to a higher end laptop from apple, so that's why I'm unsure it translates into higher sales down the road, but for non-hardware stuff, it certainly can.

Yes, I meant primarily services, but Apple does have this secret superpower called OS updates that magically transforms satisfied customers into people needing something new.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

Can you elaborate on this? What, in its default state, makes it unusable? I have Windows 11 on the system I am typing this response on and I didn't have to do anything to it. It's perfectly useable as is.

Now are there things I dislike about it? You bet, there's a lot. But default state useability is not one of them.

Yes. The last few times I have installed and set up Windows 11 has been 1) in a VM for development; 2) in a VM for the user of the product and 3) a Boot Camp volume for development and the occasional game. For VM I currently use VMware Fusion. (I previously used VirtualBox.)

Common across all three is first the way you have to circumvent the default process to create an offline local account. At the time this involved opening a CMD prompt before the setup is complete and then deactivating the network interface, override a setting and reboot.

Secondly, since resources are a factor in 1 and 2, there are multiple functions that need to be deactivated or uninstalled (if possible). I mentioned the Xbox Game Bar thing before, that is probably the best example since it is very intrusive and if your user don't know what it is she might panic. To get rid of OneDrive from the Explorer you have to edit the registry.

The third example is particularly relevant with the Boot Camp install. Since disk space is very limited, and I want to install a few games, I keep an SSD connected and put everything there. Now, Windows likes to put things into the users %AppData% even though you tell it to install to another disk. Getting Windows to utilise an external SSD is tricky. You can edit the environmental variables to change the TEMP folder to a different volume. In the end, what I did was relocate my user folder to the external SSD. This yields the best result, but is also more involved since it involves multiple reboots and moving the contents with RoboCopy before creating an NTFS Junction (i.e. what Microsoft calls a soft link).

 

[David Hassholehoff]

Yeah, as someone who has spent a lot of time using windows both personally and professionally. Windows is fine in many respects.

I agree that there's a lot of things wrong, as mentioned the telemetry, the AI bloat, but the state of windows is that its generally useable.

Also there's options to quite easily debloat and streamline the OS.

With that said, I'm largely using Linux for my desktop, cachyos to be specific. I find that distro to better fit my usage needs

Windows even has functions I really like. For example: Ever since Windows XP the audio volume control has been app specific. We still don't have that without installing a third party utility. (I use Volume Control by Andrea Alberti)

 

[m1maverick]

Yes. The last few times I have installed and set up Windows 11 has been 1) in a VM for development; 2) in a VM for the user of the product and 3) a Boot Camp volume for development and the occasional game. For VM I currently use VMware Fusion. (I previously used VirtualBox.)

Common across all three is first the way you have to circumvent the default process to create an offline local account. At the time this involved opening a CMD prompt before the setup is complete and then deactivating the network interface, override a setting and reboot.

Secondly, since resources are a factor in 1 and 2, there are multiple functions that need to be deactivated or uninstalled (if possible). I mentioned the Xbox Game Bar thing before, that is probably the best example since it is very intrusive and if your user don't know what it is she might panic. To get rid of OneDrive from the Explorer you have to edit the registry.

The third example is particularly relevant with the Boot Camp install. Since disk space is very limited, and I want to install a few games, I keep an SSD connected and put everything there. Now, Windows likes to put things into the users %AppData% even though you tell it to install to another disk. Getting Windows to utilise an external SSD is tricky. You can edit the environmental variables to change the TEMP folder to a different volume. In the end, what I did was relocate my user folder to the external SSD. This yields the best result, but is also more involved since it involves multiple reboots and moving the contents with RoboCopy before creating an NTFS Junction (i.e. what Microsoft calls a soft link).

What about those three things makes a default Windows 11 installation unusable? I understand there are things about it, such as the push for using a Microsoft account (I hate them too), unnecessary included software (I don't like it either, regardless of the OS), and "telemetry" collection (despise it) but none of this has to do with useability.

The third point you provided is your desire to use it in a different state than the default. If you just left it at its default configuration it would be completely useable.

Therefore I am going to have to ask for an example or two where the Windows 11 is unusable in its default state.

 

[teh_hunterer]

If you mean more apple products - I'm not sure, if you mean apple services, like icloud, then yes. If a person's needs are fulfilled with the Neo, I don't see them upgrading to a higher end laptop from apple, so that's why I'm unsure it translates into higher sales down the road, but for non-hardware stuff, it certainly can.

I would have thought more Apple products like iPhone, iPad, AirPods, Apple Watch. They don't get you all at once but they do get you eventually, and the Neo is as good an entry point as it gets.

But even with getting another Mac down the road, sometimes you just need to try the entry level first before you're convinced. I started out with an entry level iPad because it was cheap. I eventually went to an Air and finally I'm on an M5 Pro with magic keyboard.

People's income changes over time. If you use a Neo at school and you like it, you might be more inclined to stay with Apple when you get a big boy laptop and other devices years later.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

What about those three things makes a default Windows 11 installation unusable? I understand there are things about it, such as the push for using a Microsoft account (I hate them too), unnecessary included software (I don't like it either, regardless of the OS), and "telemetry" collection (despise it) but none of this has to do with useability.

User has no Microsoft account. Unusable right there.

Also, I beg to differ, they do affect usability when they show up and pester the user.

The third point you provided is your desire to use it in a different state than the default. If you just left it at its default configuration it would be completely useable.

Ok, fair enough. But then I wouldn't have space for apps, which is kind of useless.

 

[m1maverick]

User has no Microsoft account. Unusable right there.

It's easy to create one and, I believe, it can be done right at the time it's requested.

Also, I beg to differ, they do affect usability when they show up and pester the user.

Please elaborate. I despise the Microsoft account requirement as much as anyone. But being strongarmed into using one is not a useability issue.

In fact some, most prevalently Microsoft, would argue using a Microsoft Account increases useability. While I am not a fan of them I do see a number of benefits to doing so. My preference would be to provide both options.

Ok, fair enough. But then I wouldn't have space for apps, which is kind of useless.

Then use a system with sufficient resources.

EDIT: Additional commentary in the second section.

 

[avro707]

User has no Microsoft account. Unusable right there

Apple also annoys you about having their account for their devices.

I digress anyway.

This is all getting away from the topic of Mac Pro hardware.

 

[HiVolt]

With how much Apple restricts Kernel and OS access, were there even any useful PCI-E cards for the M2 Ultra Mac Pro, beyond maybe some networking or capture cards?

 

[zephonic]

With how much Apple restricts Kernel and OS access, were there even any useful PCI-E cards for the M2 Ultra Mac Pro, beyond maybe some networking or capture cards?

Driver Kit has made low latency audio performance worse.

Specialist companies like MOTU and RME write their own highly efficient USB drivers, but replacing the legacy kext drivers with Driver Kit is noticeably worse.

Guess we’ll have revert back to Thunderbolt.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

For the money, sure. When could you ever walk into a store and throw $500 of 2026 buying power at a computer and get something that competent? Never.

Most computers used to be complete garbage. You had to be intelligent and keep upgrading all the time and do things yourself. Remember how slow hard drives were when your operating system was on them?

You can actually do heaps of stuff on a Neo, and it's generally snappy and a pleasure to use, even if both of us would prefer to spend more to get more of the niceties and power and capacity that's important to us.

I can't install diddly squat in 256GB and nothing's running in 8GB unified or however you want to call it RAM. But yeah, OK. 😂