So much for the Xoom/Android will crush iPad argument

[bossxii]

the tablet market will be very different than the cell phone market. You can get Android phones for free with new contract, that will never be the case with tablets (most people don't want another monthly bill). Apple will probably always have the price advantage in the tablet market. I don't see Android devices overtaking the iPad any time soon.

Very good point, I wasn't thinking about the fact the phones are free due to the contract, and tablets won't be subsidized anywhere as much as the phones. Thanks for pointing that out, I honestly was so used to seeing the cheap/free Android devices it didn't cross my mind on the subsidizing.

This could mean a longer uphill battle for sure, for Android tablets. Which honestly is not a good thing, considering the cheaper, more plentiful tablets become the choices and options consumers will have. Hopefully HP, or Dell with some $$ can get a mass produced tablet that will get some traction and drive prices down.

 

[DeathChill]

I am not so certain that Android will overcome the iPad. The rules for the tablet market are quite different from smartphones. Android can't enjoy any exclusivity on a carrier as these devices aren't "tied" to carriers the same way phones are. People don't want to be locked into a contract so subsidy is mostly out the window.

I also think that Apple really strives to have the best experience in lots of little ways, e.g. No contract monthly plans that you can activate and deactivate whenever you please directly from your iPad. This is so friggin' convenient that I can't believe no other manufacturer has copied it.

The other aspect is pricing. There really isn't that much wiggle room for competitors so they're having a hard time matching Apple with devices that aren't as well-built as Apple's.

 

[Lonectzn]

One thing is for certain - the competition is great for all consumers. Look at how the success of iOS has spurred the development of Android, and how the improvements in Android put increasing pressure on Apple to step up it's game. Both sides have had to play catch up to the other's strengths.

Android overtook iOS (in volume) partly because it is better able to meet users basic needs - option of hardware keyboard, different sizes and shapes and especially price points. It is reasonable to expect the tablet market to follow a similar course, especially when cheap international manufacturers start pumping out android 3.0+ tablets at less than half the cost of the high end motorola and apple stuff we have now.

That's not to diminish Apple's achievement... They'll continue to be extremely profitable, and produce products that sell well. But they won't be the only game, whatever apple fans like to think.

 

[DeathChill]

The problem with that is that to hit such low price points the competition will have to give up a lot on quality and it will be very apparent to the consumer.

Most phones cost around the same off contract (Apple charges a slight premium but they also cOme with more storage) so I think it's doubtful we'll see too many cheap tablets that aren't garbage quality. The advantage Android phones had with cheap was through subsidization. This market doesn't allow for that.

 

[fertilized-egg]

especially when cheap international manufacturers start pumping out android 3.0+ tablets at less than half the cost of the high end motorola and apple stuff we have now.

We already have most of the usual "cheap international manufacturers" lined up and so far none of them can beat Apple's price in any significant way. ( http://androidcommunity.com/htc-del...droid-3-0-honeycomb-tablets-in-june-20110314/ )

If you mean REALLY cheap makers, like the ones that make the "APad," we've had them for a while now and they are so bad that most of sane minded people don't touch them just as people bought the iPods instead of super cheap Chinese MP3s. The only thing that came close to the "half the cost" while being usable was probably the Archos 101 and even that one sucks on so many levels that it hasn't really been a blockbuster success. With the computers the price difference between PC and Mac was massive. That's simply not the case here.

That's not to diminish Apple's achievement... They'll continue to be extremely profitable, and produce products that sell well. But they won't be the only game, whatever apple fans like to think.

I don't think we are arguing that Apple will be the "only game" in town. Just that they'll have a very big lead over pretty much anyone in the tablet market for a while.

IMHO the much more interesting discussion is how well the HP touchpad and the RIM Playbook will do against Android devices. Both look very solid in demos and, at least to me, much more appealing than the Honeycomb and both have hardware that can beat the Xoom's.

 

[DarwinOSX]

I don't know anyone who said the XOOM would crush the iPad.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

As to the logic of Android eventually "winning" it didn't work for Microsoft in tablet pc, MP 3 players, or cell phones. Google shows a similar inability and lack of interest in making a decent user interface or consistent user experience. Both are crucial in mobile devices. Developers are not seeing how to make a living from developing for Android. Google is only interested in delivering ads to eyeballs. its their business model. Everything else is left up to the handset manufacturers and the carriers and the users are last in their consideration. Apple is laser focused and their only real competitor is themselves.

 

[Meanee]

Hi everyone, and I am Apple Hater / Fandroid / whatever else you want me to label. And I have iPad 2.

Let me start pointing out that I simply hate iPhone. Be it 1, 3, 3gs, 4. I can agree that design is great, they have good technical innovations, but at the end, iOS is simply a very bad Phone OS (In my opinion). This is where Android flat out wins. Cross app integration is great, the ability to customize any aspect of it. Launcher Pro and Widgets are a must for me for the phone. I want to see things without going through apps and Android allows me to do that.

That being said, there's a reason I bought iPad 2. For the tablet, I do not think that iOS main screen would be what I am staring at. iOS shines in number of apps, something I can actually use during my work day, supporting my customers (Logmein, iTap, and hundreds of apps I did not discover yet).

In my opinion, Android simply needs to mature a bit. When iPad 1 came out, there were no iPad optimized apps. This is what Honeycomb is facing now. Steve laughed at "150 launch apps" on Honeycomb. How many apps did iPhone launch with?

I believe that Android will be a very real threat to iPad. Google is very developer friendly. Tegra 2 chip, while definitely not as fast as iPad 2's graphics chip is very capable. But, it needs to mature a bit more.

Android needs to get few things down first before it has a shot at throwing iPad to #2 spot. It needs to be cheaper, a bit beefier graphics, and have better physical design. Apps will come up eventually.

There is no need to laugh at Xoom sales numbers. There's no need to discredit Android as a valid iPad competitor. It will be, with time. It simply needs to mature just a bit more.

 

[err404]

I've been hoping that Android tablet uptake will be slow until the BB Playbook and HP Touchpad are on the market.
In particular the HP Touchpad looks very intriguing. I suppose that it's HP's fault for being last to market, but I fear that the momentum behind Android will kill it before it gets a chance.

 

[kdarling]

I am not so certain that Android will overcome the iPad. The rules for the tablet market are quite different from smartphones.

True for non-cell-radio-equipped tablets, because of no subsidy.

Hmm. Still, having hardware choice is still the same situation.

Android can't enjoy any exclusivity on a carrier as these devices aren't "tied" to carriers the same way phones are.

There will probably still be some 3G/4G tablets that are exclusive to a carrier for a while, especially in the USA where it's not uncommon for a 3G device to show up as either CDMA or UMTS to begin with.

People don't want to be locked into a contract so subsidy is mostly out the window.

I'm not sure where the idea that most people pay extra for 3G/4G capability, just to use it one or two months a year, came from. Forum teens without income?

There are always people are happy to get a subsidy in return for a contract. Longterm usage is common with businesses and professionals.

 

[Lonectzn]

The problem with that is that to hit such low price points the competition will have to give up a lot on quality and it will be very apparent to the consumer.

Most phones cost around the same off contract (Apple charges a slight premium but they also cOme with more storage) so I think it's doubtful we'll see too many cheap tablets that aren't garbage quality. The advantage Android phones had with cheap was through subsidization. This market doesn't allow for that.

That's not true. Only the high end android phones approach the price of the iPhone. In Australia an unsubsidized iPhone 4 32gb costs $999, and in most countries it enjoys huge subsidies. There is a massive range of android mobiles covering all the points down even to areas previously only occupied by feature phones. You have to remember most people don't own 'smartphones', and the phone market is still dominated worldwide by what we (relatively) rich people would consider poor quality nokia and Chinese phones.

Purchasing decisions are usually driven more by pricing and need than the prettiness of the interface. Apple has enjoyed a long lead without much competition selling to existing customers (reportedly half of all iPads are sold to Mac users, themselves only a small portion of the pc market) and quite frankly a relatively rich segment, not reflective of the average consumer. That's fine, it's very profitable and a position any Android manufacturer would kill to have.

There are already a whole range of perfectly serviceable tablets in the $100-$250 range, including ones like the popular nook colour. This will only continue now that there is a free tablet focused OS to throw on them. These are the ones that might begin to reach out to the mainstream, possibly as carrier-branded tablets or selling cheaply in Target next to the discount DVD players. They'll make the perfect cheap touchscreen remote bundled with your tv as viewsonic are attempting, or a feature e-reader. Maybe you'll still look down on them and remark on how beautiful it looks when you switch between iOS apps... But the people using them will have a device that is good enough for their needs, and more importantly sits within their budget - just as the feature phones do in the mobile market.

 

[err404]

Hi everyone, and I am Apple Hater / Fandroid / whatever else you want me to label. And I have iPad 2.

I'm an Apple fan (really I'm I tech fan who tends to like Apple design philosophy), but I agree with most of your points about the deficiencies of iOS. The core of the OS are pretty solid as evidenced by the quality of the apps created for it, but the Home screen needs and overhaul. It's basically the same UI paradigm as the original iPhone from 2007. The new task tray UI in particular feels tacked on.

I'm not a huge fan of the Android UI either, so I don't want Apple to simply adopt their design philosophy. That said it is very important for Apple to rethink the home screen in iOS5.

 

[radiohead14]

it's pretty refreshing to read a discussion about android vs apple without people tossing the words "fanboy" and "troll" around!

my household has 1st gen santa rosa and unibody macbook pros, but when it comes to phones, we find the android experience to be exactly what we need. and while i like the ipad for what it is, the more and more i've been trying out honeycomb, the more i appreciate it, as it's closer to a full computer experience. i'm not really sure why some people comment that it's complicated to use, because it's pretty straightforward to me. if you've operated any type of electronic gadget before, then you could figure it out within 5 mins.

i think motorola and google made a mistake rushing both hardware and os out the door though to compete with apple, and this at the moment, will make it difficult for the upcoming honeycomb tablets to compete. there's this bad press about one tablet now that some people will generalize and apply to the upcoming tablets as well. as for the apps.. give it time. remember that android mobile didn't take long for its market to grow rapidly.

i'm actually pretty impressed from what i'm seeing with samsung's upcoming galaxy tab 10.1, and this video made me seriously consider it as ipad 2's first real competition:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/14/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-showcased-on-video-doesnt-look-all-tha/

with that said, it's great that we have strong competition from both sides like others have said. without it, things get stale. so hopefully apple has some cool things that will be featured in ios 5, as imo, the current ios is becoming a bit outdated.

 

[9OOYO]

Honesty

I have to be honest in saying that I am a huge Mac fanboy.

That being said - I looked at the Xoom at a Verizon store and it is HEAVY! I truly wouldn't want to carry it around that is for sure.

It's VERY HEAVY!

 

[mobilehavoc]

I've had an iPad 1 since launch. My wife has an iPad2 and I recently bought a XOOM.

iPad is better for new users and who want lots of games and apps right now. XOOM is an overall better UI (custom for tablets not the same OS as a phone) and with a quickly growing app base. I've already heard back from TheDaily that they are working on a XOOM app as are many developers.

The reality is, both iPad and Honeycomb tablets will coexist in the market for some time - no one will crush the other. I bought a XOOM mainly for the higher res screen (1280x800), free upgrade to LTE this summer, 1GB RAM and because it's a Google flagship device so it'll get OTA updates frequently and for a long time (see Nexus One for reference).

I've had the XOOM for a few days and I haven't touched my wife's iPad2 or even my new 2011 MBP either

 

[Lonectzn]

I have to be honest in saying that I am a huge Mac fanboy.

That being said - I looked at the Xoom at a Verizon store and it is HEAVY! I truly wouldn't want to carry it around that is for sure.

It's VERY HEAVY!

Same weight as the original iPad which I'm using right now, and completely agree is too heavy. I would not buy a Xoom at the price they are asking, I can only hope Samsung do better.

Plus, with the tab's connector along the long edge, I'm hoping it will support a keyboard/battery combo, basically turning it into a laptop with incredible battery life. The iPads portrait mode keyboard dock is absurd and almost unusable. The laptop form factor just makes so much more sense for a connected keyboard, I don't know what possessed them to produce such a ludicrous accessory.

 

[BaldiMac]

Well I think it's inevitable that the scores of coming android 3+ tablets will eventually make meaningful inroads in the marketplace. Prices will come down, available apps will increase, etc. and sooner or later it's possible if not even certain that android will overtake iOS in the tablet space as it has in the smartphone space. It should happen more slowly since the iPad 2 is now available for multiple carriers, but there's no particular reason to believe that the smartphone trend won't repeat itself in tablets.

But that doesn't mean android tablets are superior in any of the ways that matter

(I'm talking about user experience for you fandroids out there...)

If you are looking at historical trends in other markets, I'm not sure why you'd only look at smartphones. Smartphones aren't like most markets because of the influence of the carriers.

Apple has had a majority share in three significant markets to date. Music downloads, digital music players, and "media tablets." You might be able to throw in mobile apps as well. It still has a majority share in all of those markets.

 

[fertilized-egg]

i'm actually pretty impressed from what i'm seeing with samsung's upcoming galaxy tab 10.1, and this video made me seriously consider it as ipad 2's first real competition:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/14/samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-showcased-on-video-doesnt-look-all-tha/

What's the difference between the Xoom and the Samsung tablet? Don't they have pretty much exactly the same software and hardware specs except the camera mega pixel and the lighter weight due to different case material (plastic vs steel)? They look to carry about the same thickness as well.

 

[9OOYO]

Same weight as the original iPad which I'm using right now, and completely agree is too heavy. I would not buy a Xoom at the price they are asking, I can only hope Samsung do better.

Plus, with the tab's connector along the long edge, I'm hoping it will support a keyboard/battery combo, basically turning it into a laptop with incredible battery life. The iPads portrait mode keyboard dock is absurd and almost unusable. The laptop form factor just makes so much more sense for a connected keyboard, I don't know what possessed them to produce such a ludicrous accessory.

It's weird that it is the same weight. Maybe it feels heavier because of the design/compact modeling. It's almost more "dead weight"...know what I mean?

 

[Mac.World]

I don't know anyone who said the XOOM would crush the iPad.

BUT, I do know people who think (I'm one of them), that in time Android OS will become more popular than iOS on tablets. This isn't about quality, or hating, or anything juvenile, it's simply about how many manufacturers Google is partnered with, and the breadth of choices.

What I was expecting with the XOOM, though, was for the Tegra 2 architecture to be quicker than that of the iPad's, and as we've seen, that's definitely been wrong.

If "become more popular in time" you are referring to 5+ years, then yes, you could be right.

But in the near term, under 5 years, it's not going to happen, "unless" the cost of manufacturing and part costs go way, way down for EOM's utilizing Android (and after the Japan quake, it's going to be 1-2 years before prices come down.) At this point and current economy, hardware manufacturer's can't make a tablet and sell it for a loss, in the hopes of competing with Apple's price point. Investors would rake the company over the coals for driving stock prices down.
Additionally, unlike with phones, you aren't going to see "free" tablets or Buy One Get One Free offers, at least not for many years, helping to bring Android into the lower income/3rd world populations. This is another factor which will prevent Android proliferation in the near term.

 

[radiohead14]

What's the difference between the Xoom and the Samsung tablet? Don't they have pretty much exactly the same software and hardware specs except the camera mega pixel and the lighter weight due to different case material (plastic vs steel)? They look to carry about the same thickness as well.

i like the dual speakers on both sides of the Samsung, and from what i've been seeing on the videos.. Samsung's screen is looking much better than the Xoom's and seems to be on par with the iPad. i was disappointed with the Xoom's screen and speakers, so i'm hoping Samsung gets them both right.

 

[dojoman]

Xoom feels like a cheap gadget in my hands...it can't even beat iPad 1 how will it beat iPad 2? I'm not even talking about spec wise. And believe it or not most consumers don't care about specs that much. As long as it's easy to use they will get it. Xoom is very difficult to use, not to mentioned very buggy. I was playing around with it in Bestbuy and web browser crashed twice. Just look at the commercials of Xoom and iPad. You don't see any specs mentioned in iPad ads, just videos of people using the device and apps. Xoom's commercials is CG with the guys flying a space ship and bragging the specs.

 

[JOHNGAETANO]

I used the Xoom for 9 days. It's the best Android Tablet on the Market.

It's not heavy, until you feel the iPad2. I also found it's size, or overall footprint to be a fuzz big for me.

It is a buggy OS, but it is a new OS.

My experience was ok with the Xoom, and I certainly understand the Android community supporting it. For me, I had to get an iPad2, and send the Xoom back.

JOHN

Xoom feels like a cheap gadget in my hands...it can't even beat iPad 1 how will it beat iPad 2? I'm not even talking about spec wise. And believe it or not most consumers don't care about specs that much. As long as it's easy to use they will get it. Xoom is very difficult to use, not to mentioned very buggy. I was playing around with it in Bestbuy and web browser crashed twice. Just look at the commercials of Xoom and iPad. You don't see any specs mentioned in iPad ads, just videos of people using the device and apps. Xoom's commercials is CG with the guys flying a space ship and bragging the specs.

 

[vrDrew]

Its mid-March right now. What will the Android folks be saying come December?

Face it: Its over.

The me-too manufacturers can't compete on price. They can't compete on performance. They can't compete on manufacturing or engineering. They can't compete on customer service. They can't compete on usability or experience. They can't compete at retail. They certainly can't compete on Apps, or ecosystem.

I've got a suggestion for all the CEOs of companies trying to copy the iPad:

Don't.

Stop wasting your time and money. Instead, why don't you try making some other post-pc device. Make a better remote-control, so we consumers can ditch the half-dozen kludgy boxes we've got cluttering our coffee tables. Make a device that monitors and controls our furnaces and airconditioners, the temperature and humidty in our homes - so we can keep comfortable while using less energy. Make a tiny wireless weather sensor (using Android's barometer support...) so our meteorologists can come up with more accurate forecasts. Make a wireless device that lets the billions of people in Africa and Asia use mobile-phone networks to better their lives. Make a trillion tiny embedded sensors and transmitters, so we can know when our roads and bridges, our sewer lines and water pipes, our electric and telephone lines are going to break down. Make a $20 device that goes in our mailboxes and tells us when the mail has been delivered. Make a $20 doodad that tell us when our garage door is left up.

All of these devices sort of exist right now. But they don't work very well. Or they are too expensive and too complicated. Instead of frittering away the incredible brain power of of your engineers trying to copy the iPad - why not deploy it in making a product that can actually make our lives a little better?

 

[Meanee]

Its mid-March right now. What will the Android folks be saying come December?

Face it: Its over.

The me-too manufacturers can't compete on price. They can't compete on performance. They can't compete on manufacturing or engineering. They can't compete on customer service. They can't compete on usability or experience. They can't compete at retail. They certainly can't compete on Apps, or ecosystem.

I've got a suggestion for all the CEOs of companies trying to copy the iPad:

Don't.

Stop wasting your time and money. Instead, why don't you try making some other post-pc device. Make a better remote-control, so we consumers can ditch the half-dozen kludgy boxes we've got cluttering our coffee tables. Make a device that monitors and controls our furnaces and airconditioners, the temperature and humidty in our homes - so we can keep comfortable while using less energy. Make a tiny wireless weather sensor (using Android's barometer support...) so our meteorologists can come up with more accurate forecasts. Make a wireless device that lets the billions of people in Africa and Asia use mobile-phone networks to better their lives. Make a trillion tiny embedded sensors and transmitters, so we can know when our roads and bridges, our sewer lines and water pipes, our electric and telephone lines are going to break down. Make a $20 device that goes in our mailboxes and tells us when the mail has been delivered. Make a $20 doodad that tell us when our garage door is left up.

All of these devices soft of exist right now. But they don't work very well. Or they are too expensive and too complicated. Instead of frittering away the incredible brain power of of your engineers trying to copy the iPad - why not deploy it in making a product that can actually make our lives a little better?

Hi Steve, didn't know you read these boards.

Whole post-PC "concept", downplaying competition, etc.

You cannot discredit Android to be a huge threat to iPad. More than WebOS, whatever Microsoft may be brewing, etc. Now imagine, with a bit more maturity for Android, more apps, and better/cheaper manufacturing, iPad may be de-throned.

And next year we get to play the same game with iPad 3. The Post-tablet, Mystical device.

 

[mobilehavoc]

All this was said last year when the Nexus One launched. Now who owns the smartphone market? Enough said

Its mid-March right now. What will the Android folks be saying come December?

Face it: Its over.

The me-too manufacturers can't compete on price. They can't compete on performance. They can't compete on manufacturing or engineering. They can't compete on customer service. They can't compete on usability or experience. They can't compete at retail. They certainly can't compete on Apps, or ecosystem.

I've got a suggestion for all the CEOs of companies trying to copy the iPad:

Don't.

Stop wasting your time and money. Instead, why don't you try making some other post-pc device. Make a better remote-control, so we consumers can ditch the half-dozen kludgy boxes we've got cluttering our coffee tables. Make a device that monitors and controls our furnaces and airconditioners, the temperature and humidty in our homes - so we can keep comfortable while using less energy. Make a tiny wireless weather sensor (using Android's barometer support...) so our meteorologists can come up with more accurate forecasts. Make a wireless device that lets the billions of people in Africa and Asia use mobile-phone networks to better their lives. Make a trillion tiny embedded sensors and transmitters, so we can know when our roads and bridges, our sewer lines and water pipes, our electric and telephone lines are going to break down. Make a $20 device that goes in our mailboxes and tells us when the mail has been delivered. Make a $20 doodad that tell us when our garage door is left up.

All of these devices sort of exist right now. But they don't work very well. Or they are too expensive and too complicated. Instead of frittering away the incredible brain power of of your engineers trying to copy the iPad - why not deploy it in making a product that can actually make our lives a little better?