So much for the Xoom/Android will crush iPad argument

[zipur]

Maybe Android will be re-making this add as they try and knock off Apple and the masses who camp out and stand in line for days just to spend their hard earned money on apple product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8

 

[pdqgp]

Android overtook iOS (in volume) partly because it is better able to meet users basic needs - option of hardware keyboard, different sizes and shapes and especially price points.

Partly, but IMO those points had very little to do with it. When people buy phones they consider the carrier in a very strong way. The main reason Apple sold contrary to that statement is that Apple has a following. People buy their products because of why they are like they are, not because of what they are.

In the case of Android phones, every carrier sells them so it's no doubt that people are likely going to buy more of them. I would be interested in how well Verizon is doing with the iPhone. Net-new iPHones that is.

 

[blueroom]

Aside from the one Super Bowl Xoom ad are there any other commercials for it?

 

[ibuyufo]

Android to me looks clunky and not something I would use. The real OS that looks very interesting and compelling is WebOS from HP. The OS is very polished from what I've seen and it's able to do a lot of the things apple refuse to implement such as multi-tasking function and better notification integration.

 

[Apple OC]

bring on the Xoom2

 

[ZBoater]

Android to me looks clunky and not something I would use. The real OS that looks very interesting and compelling is WebOS from HP. The OS is very polished from what I've seen and it's able to do a lot of the things apple refuse to implement such as multi-tasking function and better notification integration.

Are you saying Honeycomb doest have these features or not as well as Apple? I can assure you multi tasking and notifications are two of Honeycomb's strengths. The Xoom may not have many apps, but I can switch between the few of them I do have very, very well.

 

[neko girl]

Are you saying Honeycomb doest have these features or not as well as Apple? I can assure you multi tasking and notifications are two of Honeycomb's strengths. The Xoom may not have many apps, but I can switch between the few of them I do have very, very well.

I'm sure the multitasking in Android is solid, but there have been complaints of instability over time if the number of multitasked applications aren't pruned, and reviewers have found the 5-app dock to be somewhat of a limitation.

I will note that the iPhone 4/3Gs does not seem to suffer from the "requires pruning" issue (that I know) but the iPad 1 certainly does from time to time, I assume because of its relatively anemic memory.

 

[ZBoater]

I'm sure the multitasking in Android is solid, but there have been complaints of instability over time if the number of multitasked applications aren't pruned, and reviewers have found the 5-app dock to be somewhat of a limitation.

I will note that the iPhone 4/3Gs does not seem to suffer from the "requires pruning" issue (that I know) but the iPad 1 certainly does from time to time, I assume because of its relatively anemic memory.

Yes, Honeycomb does tend to get flakey over time, especially when I use non-optimized apps or Labs features. Being rooted and overclocked certainly doesn't help.

I prefer having 5 apps truly multitasked (7 if you hold the Xoom in portrait mode) rather than the ipads 98 "placeholders". I swear my iPad remembers every app I ever ran and lets me scroll through pages and pages of "open tasks", but most of those are not really in memory. They are just placeholders to quickly restart an app. I mean, there is only so much multitasking to be done with 256 or 512mb of memory. And there is nothing wrong with that. I am sure that if I ran Infinity Blade on my Xoom (which I can't ) it would be hogging all available memory too.

 

[NickDaQuick]

Playing with a relatives xoom, i have to say it does pose alot of potential with some improvement, but im very glad i bought my ipad 2

 

[neko girl]

my iPad remembers every app I ever ran and lets me scroll through pages and pages of "open tasks", but most of those are not really in memory

One thing I have noticed that may be of help is that the app that gets used, or clicked on, will shift its position to be the first one on the left on the first page in the multitasking dock. This way, even though you're not doing any management and are switching between 2-3 apps, you can depend on these apps to be the first 2-3 in the dock.

Sort of like your Command+Tab bar, I suppose - but less accurate, like you said.

 

[ibuyufo]

No, I'm not saying that honeycomb do not have those features. I'm just saying that WebOS is a lot more polished than android and it has much better execution. I can't say how stable the tablet version of WebOS will be but from what I've seen it looks good!
I feel that iOS is a tired OS. Over 3 or 4 years there has not been many cosmetic changes that one would say wow. A lot of these changes are just incremental containing features that should have been there to begin with. The current iOS should have been the OS that Apple introduced with the first iphone.

 

[gus6464]

WebOS is the only platform I see that can give iOS a run for it's money. The only thing that has to be seen is if HP can manufacture a solid reliable device like the iPad with the right specs.

The problem with Android, Blackberry, and WebOS is that they are trying to emulate today what Apple did a year ago. The Adreno GPU that comes with the Snapdragon on the HP Touchpad is trash compared to PowerVR. The Playbook has an impressive spec sheet but who is really going to make apps for it? If I were a developer I would not prioritize making my app for RIM first before iOS or WebOS.

So what happens when all these new tablets that are coming out in the next 6 months try to barely match the power of the iPad 2 and then Apple crushes them 6 months later with the iPad 3 carrying a quad Cortex A9 and quad PowerVR 543MP4? The only way to beat Apple is to stay one step ahead of them and that will be extremely hard to do in the tablet market.

I bet Motorola never expected Apple to put the hardware they did on the iPad 2. Apple is not spending $8b on hardware contracts to use last year's tech. Other manufacturers better get on the ball or the same thing is going to happen in the tablet industry that happened to the mp3 player one.

 

[chrono1081]

well that's because this is a apple fan site. Most "fandroid" folks are on android sites

Also where have you heard here or else where that the xoom would crush the iPad?

I dont think you read Macrumors enough. There is so much Apple hate on this site its unreal.

 

[fpnc]

And your observation is based on what? iPad 2 launch? iPhone 4 was met just as enthusiastically and yet Android is already more popular. One million people buying iDevice on a launch day does not make that much of a difference on a global scheme.

And yet on March 2 we got this (and a lot more from lilo777):

...With half the RAM, most likely sub-par GPU performance (not NVIDIA design), sub-par screen and camera resolutions, phone-optimized OS, no 4G how come iPad 2 is equal to XOOM?

And this (from WhySoSerious who actually started a thread entitled "iPad 1 vs iPad 2 vs Xoom" which seems to have been WhySoSerious's attempt to prove the superiority of the Xoom):

i agree with this [lilo777's statement from above]. Xoom has a higher res, more ram, better camera, more powerfulf gfx, 4G......so how is Xoom = iPad 2??

But now we learn this (from Ars Technica http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/03/ipad-2-the-ars-review.ars/5):

...As we saw in the previous benchmarks, the iPad 2 has a significant increase in floating point performance vs. its predecessor. This was really pounded home by the LINPACK tests which showed the iPad 2 besting its predecessor with a 292% (~3x) improvement. We ran this test on the Motorola Xoom running Android 3.0 and the Samsung Galaxy Tab running 2.2. The iPad 2 shows a surprising 336% improvement over the Motorola Xoom on its NIVIDIA Tegra 2 platform and a 724% increase over the Samsung Galaxy Tab’s 1GHz “Hummingbird ARM” processor...But the only factor we can think of that would explain such a boost in LINPACK performance vs. both the original iPad and rival Tegra 2-based devices is that A5 must have full support for ARM's NEON vector extensions (the ARM equivalent of Intel's SSE instructions). The NEON extensions, along with the larger vector FPU (VFPU) to support them, are included by default in the A8 family, but are optional in the A9. NVIDIA's Tegra 2 opted for the smaller, lower-power, but weaker ARM FPU, while Apple seems to have included the beefier NEON VFPU in their implementation of the A9. Clearly this is the way to go, and we can expect other ARM SoC vendors to follow suit...

I can't confirm the technical truth of what Ars says, but it's certainly adding to my doubts on the ability of the Tegra 2 to compete with Apple's A5/iPad 2. Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder whether NVIDIA has just "dumped" the Tegra 2 on the market at bargain prices because it realized that the chip was going to be uncompetitive. Maybe that's the main reason it is going to be used in so many Honeycomb tablets, it's cheap and it's available. The Tegra 2 would have been great last summer, but now it's looking more and more like it's DOA.

Of course, nothing says that this situation won't change in another six months or a year, but that's the future and not now and for now it looks like Apple has the best tablet and it kind of looks like the Xoom and other Tegra 2-based products are going to fall well short of the "mark" (i.e. the iPad 2 and the iOS ecosystem).

I also take objection to the persistent claims that the iPad's iOS isn't a "real" tablet OS but that somehow Honeycomb is a tablet OS because, well, it must be (?) since Google says so. Point of fact, iOS and Honeycomb/Android are merely different, but that doesn't mean that one or the other is automatically the very definition of a tablet OS. Moreover, versions of Android before Honeycomb were widely regarded as being a terrible fit for tablets, while the iOS running on the iPad seems to have done very well indeed. Thus, Google had no choice but to modify Android so that it could be used on tablets, and now some are trying to use the failure of previous Android-based tablets as some type of "proof" that Apple's iOS can't really be a tablet OS (since Google had to make major OS changes for their tablet products while Apple did not).

Frankly, I think the tablet OS situation can be described more correctly by noting that Honeycomb may be the answer if you think a tablet OS should be like a touch-enabled PC running Windows. Otherwise, if you think that a Windows-like experience isn't the answer then maybe the iOS is a better fit for tablets.

 

[camelsnot]

How so? Your assumptions about Google's motives are biased based on the websites you frequent (*whisper*apple fan sites*whisper*)

Apple did have to make changes to their OS in order for it to work on a tablet, hence the updates. You'd be ignorant to think otherwise. Also, apps had to be changed in order for them to appear properly on their tablet.

Google knows the same thing needs to happen with their OS, in an effort to make it more tablet-friendly. There's no conspiracy there. Considering how far Android has come in its short life span, compared to iOS' lifespan, they are doing pretty damn good, regardless of what biased Apple fans say.

Frankly, you are wrong. Honeycomb is simply the next version of Android, plain and simple. There's absolutely no ties from how Android operates to how Windows operates on a tablets. That's pure ignorance and shear bias from an apple fan.

Android and iOS will once again compete in tablet form. FACT. Regardless of how much you drink the koolaid and absolutely want to believe with every fiber in your little apple heart that iOS is the only "real" tablet OS, eventually sales will prove you wrong. It's already happened in the phone market, and it'll happen in the tablet market. Android will be a contender and fans will just have to deal with it. Granted, it won't be overnight, or maybe by the end of this year, but it'll happen. Deal with it.

Yeah you could say "meeehhh *whiney* but there will be more Android tablets than iPads *meeeeeh* so naturally they'll sell" Your point? Oh I know the point.. the point is, regardless of how great the ipad is (and I have an ipad 2), people may not want one. Just like Android is starting to slaughter iPhone sales, it's because some people don't WANT an iPhone. That's their decision, not yours. For years there were a multitude of phones, but people wanted iPhones. That is now changing. If you can't see how compelling some of the features are in Android, then you are completely biased and this discussion is shut down. You can't debate a brick wall.

Tell yourself differently, but ultimately sales percentages will show the truth. Until then.. keep fighting the biased "good fight".

Thus, Google had no choice but to modify Android so that it could be used on tablets, and now some are trying to use the failure of previous Android-based tablets as some type of "proof" that Apple's iOS can't really be a tablet OS (since Google had to make major OS changes for their tablet products while Apple did not).

Frankly, I think the tablet OS situation can be described more correctly by noting that Honeycomb may be the answer if you think a table OS should be like a touch-enabled PC running Windows. Otherwise, if you think that a Windows-like experience isn't the answer then maybe the iOS is a better fit for tablets.

 

[fpnc]

How so? Your assumptions about Google's motives are biased based on the websites you frequent (*whisper*apple fan sites*whisper*)...Frankly, you are wrong. Honeycomb is simply the next version of Android, plain and simple. There's absolutely no ties from how Android operates to how Windows operates on a tablets. That's pure ignorance and shear bias from an apple fan...

lol...I think it is you that don't understand my meaning. I was using lilo777's own posts on how Honeycomb is a tablet OS while the iOS is not as a way of suggesting how lillo777, WhySoSerious, and other Honeycomb/Xoom proponents might themselves be wrong. However, you've now come back and tried to point out how those statements (which are similar to lillo777's, et. al.) are wrong. Of course Apple has made changes to their OS to run on tablets, it's completely obvious that they have, but you can't convince some people of that -- they call the iOS on the iPad a "phone OS" while claiming that Honeycomb is superior because it has been designed for tablets.

As for whether Honeycomb/Xoom is closer to a PC experience than is Apple's iOS/iPad, well I think that is pretty obvious -- it just is, as has been noted by several other users in this thread (which was ranked as a good thing by those users). Now, will most see that as a good thing or a bad thing? It depends, but it seems from your response that you think that it would be a bad thing.

Also, I've got to wonder why you've become so angry in your response. Statements that verge on being personal attacks are probably not needed here.

 

[leenak]

I don't disagree with you. I for one would prefer to have a choice. I like to tinker with the guts of the machines. I was a Windows ini and registry pro. I don't like when everything is under the covers or behind the curtain and all I do is click. I think that young people today growing up not knowing what a file directory structure is, or what a boot sector is, or what a partition is, is sad. If it stops working, throw it away, or call the Geek Squad or make a Genius Bar appointment. I hate that. I want to solve it myself. I want to understand how it works, why it stopped working, how to get it working again, and how to change it to work better for me.

Oh my God. I just realized I am turning into my parents and my Dad wanting to do his own oil changes and "tune" his car vs. me leasing and having the dealer do everything.

I have officially crossed the generational gap. I am getting old....

I don't know, that is what PCs, servers, etc are for. There you can get into the technical details

I am a geek from way back, CS degree and all . It is a little disconcerting for me not to know some things like where the PDF files I downloaded last night actually are on my iPad. I can open them in one program and tell that program to open it in another program but where are they?

Having said that, I think that there could be and probably are apps that could help get us closer to the OS. I also don't think everyone needs to know these things to use a computer or similar device. How many times have us geeks been used for tech support due to people using the computers and screwing them up? Sure there was no genius bar or geek squad but there was us. Fewer people had computers as well. So it isn't to say that more people knew the ins and outs of computers but that the non-technical people would be able to find the technical people to help them.

All in all, I think removing some of the technical details for the average person is ok to do. Us geeks will always have platforms to utilize but that doesn't mean that every platform we use should require deep technical knowledge.

 

[anthony691]

It is a little disconcerting for me not to know some things like where the PDF files I downloaded last night actually are on my iPad. I can open them in one program and tell that program to open it in another program but where are they?

PDFs opened in iBooks remain in the "PDFs" collection.

 

[DeathChill]

Yes, Honeycomb does tend to get flakey over time, especially when I use non-optimized apps or Labs features. Being rooted and overclocked certainly doesn't help.

I prefer having 5 apps truly multitasked (7 if you hold the Xoom in portrait mode) rather than the ipads 98 "placeholders". I swear my iPad remembers every app I ever ran and lets me scroll through pages and pages of "open tasks", but most of those are not really in memory. They are just placeholders to quickly restart an app. I mean, there is only so much multitasking to be done with 256 or 512mb of memory. And there is nothing wrong with that. I am sure that if I ran Infinity Blade on my Xoom (which I can't ) it would be hogging all available memory too.

Did you know that Android's multitasking model is extremely similar to iOS'? When an application is "closed" (switched away from) it is suspended in memory (just like iOS!) and then if more things start happening and there is no room it is discarded (just like iOS!) and the only way an application can continue running in the background is if it is explicitly programmed to do so (just like iOS!).

The only difference here is that Android doesn't have a set of API's that can run in the background but the implementations are almost identical.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Did you know that Android's multitasking model is extremely similar to iOS'?

Usually when someone talks about mobile multitasking, they are really talking about the task switching interface, not the actual multitasking mechanism of the OS. Sometimes it gets worse and you get Symbian fans and Android fans all argue over who has the best "true" multitasking and how iOS cannot multitask at the OS level. *pace falm*

Are you saying Honeycomb doest have these features or not as well as Apple? I can assure you multi tasking and notifications are two of Honeycomb's strengths. ...

But hasn't webOS always been known for having the best notification and the multi tasking in the business? If HP's tablet carries the same price tag with similar hardware - in fact HP's Adreno 220 GPU will most likely handily beat the Tegra2's GPU, again - why would I necessarily choose Honeycomb over webOS?

I like to tinker with the guts of the machines. I was a Windows ini and registry pro. I don't like when everything is under the covers or behind the curtain and all I do is click. I think that young people today growing up not knowing what a file directory structure is, or what a boot sector is, or what a partition is, is sad.

Windows ini and registry are not "guts." Those are configuration files for the GUI abstraction layer that sits on the real guts of the OS. Someone would've told you how sad that people(or script kiddies) use the Windows GUI and not the DOS command prompt and before that people would've told you how sad it is that people don't know how to program in assembly or use the mainframe UNIX with ease, and before that not being able to decipher logic gates and not being able to deal with it at the hardware level, etc.

In digital tech, the further abstraction of technology happens in every generation, it's an inevitable trend. However that doesn't mean all the young kids are doomed. You probably haven't grown up dealing with soldering transistors and chips to create a computer but you had your own geeky hacking fun with Windows and the new generation of kids will have their own things to hack into.

 

[Dorkington]

Aside from the one Super Bowl Xoom ad are there any other commercials for it?

I see commercials for it all the time, in fact, more so than I see iPad commercials.

 

[leenak]

So true, as these become more complex, more abstraction layers are added. I used to think GUIs were sad and all I wanted was the command line. I liked that OSX gave younthat if you wanted. I embrace the GUI now even if I still love the command line.

 

[NATO]

I am actually really interested in an Android tablet once they mature, the Xoom looks a little rough around the edges for my liking but it is a sign of things to come and I think once properly optimised Android tablets will be very, very good.

I'm an Apple fanboy as far as the definition goes (own nothing but Apple computers, pretty much every other Apple product going, preach to friends/family about the virtues of Apple gear etc etc) yet I recently swapped out my iPhone 3GS for an HTC Desire HD and I couldn't be happier. The flexibility to set your phone up whatever way you like, have widgets on the home screen, proper background multitasking etc is a real eye opener having used an iPhone and iPad for so long. I find iOS looks a little primitive and stale when I go back to it. I definitely think Apple have to seriously up their game with iOS 5 because as far as things are at the minute, I won't be in a hurry to switch back from Android.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

I see commercials for it all the time, in fact, more so than I see iPad commercials.

there haven't been any iPad commercials in like a month. I see that stupid xoom commericial at least once a day

 

[JohnDG]

there haven't been any iPad commercials in like a month. I see that stupid xoom commericial at least once a day

Yep: they have been on constantly since the release. And Motorola just announced a 32GB WiFi Xoom for $599 to be released "later this month."

The battle just heated-up.

jdg