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I am actually quite surprised at the civility of the responses.
Plenty of folks were predicting the Xoom’s spectacular rise and the iPad’s demise. It hasn’t happened. There are a few “regulars” who post frequently about android’s superiority and slamming Apple, iOS, iPhone and iPad at every opportunity even though this is a Mac forum. Go figure. (They have been remarkably silent but how can they argue with the excitement and near frenzy over the iPad 2.) What will be the next “wait until the __________ is released” hyperbole that will be posted?
No, the tablet market is not the MP3 player market but it’s not the smartphone market either. Neither model particularly applies to tablets. However, iPad is already becoming iconic like the iPod. It’s hip, it’s fun, it’s easy, it works. A friend of mine at a recent medical convention noted that nearly everyone of the physicians, pharmacists and nurses in attendance had iPads.
Google has more money than Apple to throw at it? Hardly! Have you heard that Apple is the most capitalized tech company on the planet?
Developers flock to Apple and the iPad and more so than Android. They are excited about gaining a piece of a huge and growing market. They can see a real revenue stream.
Lastly, Google and everyone else had a full year to examine the iPad, exploit any weaknesses, match or exceed its performance, etc and yet virtually no one, other than the most avid android fans, is paying much attention to their offerings versus the iPad
As I said, Apple is hardly perfect. However, they have a hit product which is setting the pace. They made the tablet an everyday reality. They created the consumer market for tablets.
 
Remember the G1? Did that take off and kill the iPhone? Was anyone really expecting it to? ...
Let me state that I have been in that "android will surpass iOS" camp for a few months now. It won't be instantaneous, but over the next couple years the market will be overcroweded with android tablets and people can be persuaded into anything (and of course Honeycomb will progress).

Here's a graph from 2007, the phone marketshare before the iPhone's arrival.

mobile-market-share.gif


It's mostly the same players who are still around using Android, only with RIM and Apple taking up a bunch of % as well as Chinese brands like ZTE and others. The big part of Google's success with Android is they had manufacturers who already had the market, mindshare and distribution channel(the all important carrier relationship) all set out for years. Apple didn't have any of that.

With the tablet market, there was nobody before the iPad arrived on the scene. What leverage do Google and the manufacturers have?

edit: One thing I didn't add is, the biggest thing about Honeycomb people talk about is the better task switcher - they call it multitasking but they are really referring to the task switcher - and coincidentally, both WebOS and Playbook are touting that very same thing. WebOS has always been known to be the king of multitasking(task switching) and Playbook seems to have copied that pretty well. The question would be why would I choose a Honeycomb tablet specifically over those two new comers? (Other than Playbook's 7" display size limit that is)
 
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And how will they do this? Through a butt load of manufacturers, a butt load of supply chains, a butt load of price points, a butt load of variety, and of course a brand new shiny "Best Android Tablet on the Market!!" every month or so (just what they did in the smartphone arena). Ok then, now that we understand what is expected....

I am not sure that strategy will work in the tablet space and here is why. The mobile companies were already going to be making phones and already were. To change and put a different OS on them especially an OS they got for free actually saved them money since they didn't have to R&D the OS. So they are still making their same product at about the same price point. That is why you are even seeing dumb phones start to get Android on them because it is just cheaper for the phone maker to throw Android on even their low end phones. So they don't really have to sell but about the same numbers they are used to for their costs to be about even.

Now tablets are totally different. These companies are not currently making tablets and so the R&D even on initial models is going to be high. They have less room for models not to sell well. I don't think companies are going to be able to afford to release 3 or 4 different tablets in a single but a company releasing 4 phones in a year is no problem. I just don't think they are going to be able to push out the same number of different models in a totally new market like the phone market where they were already going to make that many new models in a year anyway.. they just changed the OS on them.
 
One quick clarification though...I never said hardware. I'm talking about PLATFORMs so it is a relevant comparison. iOS vs Android. Not iPhone4 vs Android phones. I don't doubt iPhone 4 is the best selling smartphone in the world. I'm talking about platform marketshare similar to PC vs Mac.

Windows runs on many manufacturer's PCs and has like 90% marketshare while OSX runs on Apple products and has 10% marketshare. I own a Mac so I understand the appeal but the reality remains that PCs still own the market.

Same thing with iOS and Android. Last year iOS was up there in marketshare (this includes iPod Touch btw) and now Android is in the lead.

Where the users/market goes, so do the developers and the apps. That is all.

If you are talking about platforms, than you need to examine the numbers a little more closely. Apple shipped 35 million iOS devices in the Q4 2010. Android was estimated at almost exactly the same as far as I can tell (32.9 million phones plus 2 million Galaxy Tabs). But how many of those Android devices can be considered part of the same platform? Some Chinese versions of Android contain custom APIs, don't run Google's apps, and are incompatible with apps from the Android Market.
 
Like someone else said. Android is a cheaper capable alternative..... usually with more functions. But in tablet world where prices are pretty similar its hard to see why anyone would even considers android tablet right now. Everything is still so fractured. UI is messy and confusing. It takes many steps to get anything done. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Its PC syndrome. Apple and its competitors might have similar specs and yet in real life performances Apple always smokes the competition. Its all about software..... and as much as I love google their os isn't quite ready for primetime. Its android 1.0 all over again.
 
Like someone else said. Android is a cheaper capable alternative..... usually with more functions. But in tablet world where prices are pretty similar its hard to see why anyone would even considers android tablet right now. Everything is still so fractured. UI is messy and confusing. It takes many steps to get anything done. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Its PC syndrome. Apple and its competitors might have similar specs and yet in real life performances Apple always smokes the competition. Its all about software..... and as much as I love google their os isn't quite ready for primetime. Its android 1.0 all over again.

And you are not guaranteed OS upgrades. In the phone world a lot of people have android phones just because their phone came with android and they didn't really CHOOSE Android. As long as they can make calls they are happy. In the tablet world, slow upgrades (or only doing 1 or 2 upgrades then abandoning that hardware for the next shiny thing) is going to be a lot bigger issue IMO.
 
I think the difference is that with phones you can have a lot of variation in price. With the tablets you can only go so far in terms of being competitive on price while still manufacturing a device of that size (consider LCD panels) When you have Apple locking down 60% of the worlds LCD panels for the iPad/iPhone it isn't as easy to release quick and cheap alternatives like they have been with andriod phones. For once Apple now has economies of scale unlike the old Macintosh days so its gonna be hard to beat them in price.
 
I love Motorola, a lot. My favorite cell phones were always Motorola. I was excited when the Xoom was announced and seriously considered buying one. Then the price of $899 was announced and I moved over to Apple. Now with a little maturity, some price drops, etc, it is conceivable that the Google based tablets will get a decent market share.

As it is right now, it is a risk to anyone who buys a Xoom or similar that the tablet will be obsolete in a year. Lots of people chose Zune over iPods thinking that they would take over but with an MP3 player you have little risk. If it stops being supported, you still have a device that plays music and you paid $200 for it. With a tablet, if it is no longer supported, you lose resale value, you lose application support (and new applications) and the device becomes a door stop in a couple years. Spending $900 on a device which may fizzle is a bit hard to swallow.

There were a lot of people who took a risk on the original iPad. It could've fizzled but it was the only device on the market at the time. If someone decides to go the iPad route, they are using an established product which they know will continue to be supported. With a Google device, you don't have the same guarantee.

So anyway, I think Google devices could eventually get a fair share of the market but they'd really need to lower their price point and fix some of the issues people have encountered. It may take a while but they have to build consumer confidence. Who knows what will happen? No one, we'll just have to wait and see.
 
I love Motorola, a lot. My favorite cell phones were always Motorola. I was excited when the Xoom was announced and seriously considered buying one. Then the price of $899 was announced and I moved over to Apple. Now with a little maturity, some price drops, etc, it is conceivable that the Google based tablets will get a decent market share.

As it is right now, it is a risk to anyone who buys a Xoom or similar that the tablet will be obsolete in a year. Lots of people chose Zune over iPods thinking that they would take over but with an MP3 player you have little risk. If it stops being supported, you still have a device that plays music and you paid $200 for it. With a tablet, if it is no longer supported, you lose resale value, you lose application support (and new applications) and the device becomes a door stop in a couple years. Spending $900 on a device which may fizzle is a bit hard to swallow.

There were a lot of people who took a risk on the original iPad. It could've fizzled but it was the only device on the market at the time. If someone decides to go the iPad route, they are using an established product which they know will continue to be supported. With a Google device, you don't have the same guarantee.

So anyway, I think Google devices could eventually get a fair share of the market but they'd really need to lower their price point and fix some of the issues people have encountered. It may take a while but they have to build consumer confidence. Who knows what will happen? No one, we'll just have to wait and see.

^intelligent response indeed.

I'd personally stick with what is supported. I've had my fair share of sega 32x, turbogfx cd, creative lab's mp3 players, hauppauge video capture cards, sony miniDisc players/recorders, and now I don't want my phone nor my tablet devices to get dumped like those I mentioned.

PS- most importantly, you buy apple products, you get full accessory support from so many different companies...you buy anything else, you get ****.
 
I haven't been posting on macrumors for long, but I think it's pretty cool the amount of fair minded people in here (of all places, haha). Usually when I'm seeing the ipad or xoom discussed on some site that is neither apple nor droid 'centric', all you see is "zomg APPLE SUX. Not liking xoom = apple fanboi that will buy anything steve jobs sells", or "Android is garbage, not liking iPad = Jealous of best product EVAR". lol Now I'm on a forum specifically for apple fans and people are actually open minded and realizing both have strengths and weaknesses.

Seroiusly though, at first I thought I would be going with xoom. I have an iPhone, and for me the strengths apple brings are exactly what I wanted in a phone. Great form factor, great styling and design (except the antenna, oops..), and very slick seamless interface. A phone is a small device, I want to have as intuitive an experience trying to navigate around it as possible, and the iPhone is very strong there imo. That coupled with the great app marketplace was more than a worthy trade-off for having a removable battery, expandable memory, more open platform etc.

In a tablet I felt the opposite. For something I expected to use a little more like a computer, and more for movies etc than my phone I figured power, the ability to run more formats out of the box, flash etc would be more important to me. BUT, the xoom as it exists right now I feel is not a good tradeoff yet (especially before flash showed up). While it still costs 800 bucks, needs a contract, is missing some of the main features, and now looks like benchmark tests are showing the iPad as being faster I just don't know. I know the xoom has to push more pixels, and maybe later some more even tests will show but things just aren't as clear for me anymore.

I planned to get an iPad 2 and then get the xoom when wifi only comes out and keep the one that fits what I do best. But I have a strong feeling I'll actually be keeping the iPad for a lot longer than the wifi only xoom comes out... It looks like it'll be at least a few months if not longer before the marketplace gets anywhere close as far as native tablet apps, and the OS is fully baked. I know one thing- I'm not paying 800 bucks and getting a 2 year contract to be a google beta tester :p If it shapes up to really fulfill it's potential, I could see going with the xoom longer term though. But who knows, by the time that happens there will be more copetition too...
 
Why do people keep saying prices are similar, or that it's hard to make tablets cheaper? There are already tablets on the market for $100, and chinese factories pump out ones in the range of $100 to $250, as well as name brands like the Barnes and Noble Nook Colour. All these half or less the price of apple's products.

They may not have as fast a processor, as crisp a screen or long battery life, but they will be more than sufficient for peoples needs. Apple sells luxury consumer electronics at premium prices, and they are way out of the range of most people, especially for something that is really just a fancy internet connected device.

Hey, I bought one too, but to suggest that US$499, AU$629 (US$623) £429 (US$689) are low prices is just crazy. The real tablet explosion would only happen in electronics stores and big cheap retailers like target, as cut price $100 tablets find appeal as a mail and Internet device, a cheap gift for the kids instead of a console, a navigation tool. Apple may always earn the most and occupy the high margin luxury end of the market, so long as they continue to innovate... But I just find it really strange that people see it as an either-or, as if there's going to be one 'winner'.

Well, hopefully that one winner is us the consumer :)
 
Why do people keep saying prices are similar, or that it's hard to make tablets cheaper? There are already tablets on the market for $100, and chinese factories pump out ones in the range of $100 to $250, as well as name brands like the Barnes and Noble Nook Colour. All these half or less the price of apple's products.

They may not have as fast a processor, as crisp a screen or long battery life, but they will be more than sufficient for peoples needs. Apple sells luxury consumer electronics at premium prices, and they are way out of the range of most people, especially for something that is really just a fancy internet connected device.

Hey, I bought one too, but to suggest that US$499, AU$629 (US$623) £429 (US$689) are low prices is just crazy. The real tablet explosion would only happen in electronics stores and big cheap retailers like target, as cut price $100 tablets find appeal as a mail and Internet device, a cheap gift for the kids instead of a console, a navigation tool. Apple may always earn the most and occupy the high margin luxury end of the market, so long as they continue to innovate... But I just find it really strange that people see it as an either-or, as if there's going to be one 'winner'.

Well, hopefully that one winner is us the consumer :)


What I don't know, is why people keep trying to compare kindles and nooks to iPads and Xooms...Compare the kindle to the nook...compare the iPad to the Xoom... don't compare compare a dedicated e-reader with some bonus functionality to a a tablet pc where reading e-books is one of a million uses... it's like comparing a kindle to a laptop because you can read books on one. Just because the form factor is closer it doesn't make them comparable devices... Kindles are just now starting to get into the price range where I think it's a good value...originally they were way overpriced for what they were able to do imo. The iPad right now is pretty cheap for what it brings to the table. If all it did was the same thing as the kindle, then yes it would be expensive. Other companies have already admitted the difficulty in competing with apple over pricing since they control pretty much the full supply chain of these products- so I'd say that's enough to tell you apple is indeed able to sell these for 'cheaper' or at least a very competitive price compared to it's true competition.

The ipad also has a calculator in it though. so I mean...if you want to compare it to other calculators...it's f*kin' EXPENSIVE.
 
Why do people keep saying prices are similar, or that it's hard to make tablets cheaper? There are already tablets on the market for $100, and chinese factories pump out ones in the range of $100 to $250, as well as name brands like the Barnes and Noble Nook Colour. All these half or less the price of apple's products.

They may not have as fast a processor, as crisp a screen or long battery life, but they will be more than sufficient for peoples needs. Apple sells luxury consumer electronics at premium prices, and they are way out of the range of most people, especially for something that is really just a fancy internet connected device.

Mind pointing out the $100 tablets that aren't complete garbage?

True for non-cell-radio-equipped tablets, because of no subsidy.

Hmm. Still, having hardware choice is still the same situation.
Indeed, and I think that the WiFi versions are the best sellers, but that may change if every iPad/tablet comes with built in 3G/4G as component prices come down.

There will probably still be some 3G/4G tablets that are exclusive to a carrier for a while, especially in the USA where it's not uncommon for a 3G device to show up as either CDMA or UMTS to begin with.
Yes, but I don't think that it is a very big deal for the tablet market. There's no voice aspect so no one is worried about dropping calls. ;)

I'm not sure where the idea that most people pay extra for 3G/4G capability, just to use it one or two months a year, came from. Forum teens without income?

There are always people are happy to get a subsidy in return for a contract. Longterm usage is common with businesses and professionals.
These numbers are likely quite low though for a device that is more of a luxury item. I don't think we have any data that suggests one way or the other (well, Android tablets at this point suggest it doesn't work, but that may be Android itself).

Do you have any numbers that suggest most people are using the 3G capabilities of their iPad/tablet enough to warrant being locked into a contract for two years?
 
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What I don't know, is why people keep trying to compare kindles and nooks to iPads and Xooms...

They're not. At least, not stock eReaders.

They're only talking about the B&N Nook and the Nook Color, which run Android behind the scenes and which have been rooted into nice inexpensive tablets.

Especially the Nook Color, which many of us are running Honeycomb on. For $200 (on sale), you get a 800Mhz (overclockable to 1+GHz) 7" tablet with capacitive touch screen, great display, and a very nice, thin but solid form factor.

There's a large community dedicated to constantly improving the Nook Android experience.

.
 
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well to be fair, the iPad doesn't actually come with a calculator. ;)

But then again it doesn't automatically come with iBooks either.... Hmmmn:)

Actually, the iBooks part was because Apple did not want to tie that app to the normal firmware update cycle. As a separate app, Apple is able to push updates to it outside the normal OS update.
 
Well, me personally I am a child of the 80s. I grew up with a C prompt while the geeky kids played with Mac SE/30s. I needed a real job and at the time (and even today) most businesses run on Microsoft, so I chose the paycheck. :p

I bought a Xoom because I like gadgets. I like being on the bleeding edge. I don't mind the ocassional force close. I like being able to access the file system, use FTP and share files amongst all my apps, and work on my tablet more like I work on my PC. But I've been an iPad user since it launched last year and will get the iPad 2 (if I can get my hands on one). Why? Because iPad offers a more stable and polished experience. And sometimes I need to get work done. Apps like Goodreader and Todo are crucial to me.

Are there things abouts the iPad and Apple I don't like? Sure. I hate iTunes with a passion, and Apples insistence that I use it if I want to use the iPad is frustrating. I am not fond of the App store policies. And so on. But there are things about Market I am not thrilled about either. However, here is a perfect example.

One of my favorite apps is Google Shopper. It lets you scan an item and it searches the internet for the barcode and where you can get the item cheaper. Its been a lifesaver on my Droid. So imagine my surprise when I went to download it from Market and it wasn't there! Apparently it hasn't been upgraded for use on tablets. Bummer.

Had this been my iPad, I'd have to simply search the appstore for an alternative. But this was Android. I use an app called Appcontrol to among other things backup my apps. I launched an FTP client on my Droid, found the app file inside the backup directory, and uploaded it to my FTP server. I launched the FTP client on the Xoom, downloaded the file, and clicked on it to install it. Now THAT is a post-PC world!

Would the "average" user want or need to do this? No. But as a self-professed geek being able to do this makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. :D Being able to load whatever I want, whenever I want, make it look however I want. My PC. MINE.

Is that "better" that Apple's philosophy? It is for ME. Your mileage may vary. I can't play Infinity Blade on my Xoom, so I ain't giving up my iPad just yet. I also have a lot invested in a lot of cool apps. Todo, Goodreader, Tapforms, Corkulous, and Wundermap being some of them. Android doesn't have compelling alternatives yet. So, I use an iPad.

The fanboyism on BOTH sides amuses me. The misinformation and commentary about the Xooms washed out screen or constant force closures is just sad. As is the similarly biased commentary about the iPad from the Fandroids. I am glad I own both and I can make my own judgements about screen quality or interface. The Android browser with its radial quick buttons is absolutely amazing by the way. :D

I feel sorry for the folks who come here wanting to learn and run into the fanboys. I hope they are able to filter out the biased noise and be able to glean the good and bad of both platforms and choose the one that works best for THEM. Or, do like me and choose both. Because at the end of the day, whoever has the most gadgets wins. :p
 
One of my favorite apps is Google Shopper. It lets you scan an item and it searches the internet for the barcode and where you can get the item cheaper. Its been a lifesaver on my Droid. So imagine my surprise when I went to download it from Market and it wasn't there! Apparently it hasn't been upgraded for use on tablets. Bummer.

Had this been my iPad, I'd have to simply search the appstore for an alternative. But this was Android. I use an app called Appcontrol to among other things backup my apps. I launched an FTP client on my Droid, found the app file inside the backup directory, and uploaded it to my FTP server. I launched the FTP client on the Xoom, downloaded the file, and clicked on it to install it. Now THAT is a post-PC world!

Would the "average" user want or need to do this? No. But as a self-professed geek being able to do this makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. :D Being able to load whatever I want, whenever I want, make it look however I want. My PC. MINE.

I guess you already know this, but I would say that the solution you found to your problem is very much a PC-world solution. To me a post-PC device is one that non-technical users can use and enjoy without having to either learn to be technical or get help from someone that is. I'd say that the post-PC solution to your problem is have a really reliable compatiblity mode for existing Apps and to have a community of developers that are eager to maintain existing Apps and provide tablet Apps. If you have both of those things the end-user is a lot less likely to have problems.
 
Just the same you have to tip your hat to Android for keeping Apple on it's toes. Were it not for the the competition I doubt Apple would have put much priority into improving the guts of the iPad as fast as they have. Flipside: If the iPad can get other products to be more "Apple-like" in look and feel while still retaining unique qualities, it's a win-win for consumers and technophiles.


you nailed it brother -

I like Apple because their products are good, but competiton is EXCELLENTfor all of us
 
I guess you already know this, but I would say that the solution you found to your problem is very much a PC-world solution. To me a post-PC device is one that non-technical users can use and enjoy without having to either learn to be technical or get help from someone that is. I'd say that the post-PC solution to your problem is have a really reliable compatiblity mode for existing Apps and to have a community of developers that are eager to maintain existing Apps and provide tablet Apps. If you have both of those things the end-user is a lot less likely to have problems.

I don't disagree with you. I for one would prefer to have a choice. I like to tinker with the guts of the machines. I was a Windows ini and registry pro. I don't like when everything is under the covers or behind the curtain and all I do is click. I think that young people today growing up not knowing what a file directory structure is, or what a boot sector is, or what a partition is, is sad. If it stops working, throw it away, or call the Geek Squad or make a Genius Bar appointment. I hate that. I want to solve it myself. I want to understand how it works, why it stopped working, how to get it working again, and how to change it to work better for me.

Oh my God. I just realized I am turning into my parents and my Dad wanting to do his own oil changes and "tune" his car vs. me leasing and having the dealer do everything.

I have officially crossed the generational gap. I am getting old.... :cool:
 
I don't know anyone who said the XOOM would crush the iPad.

BUT, I do know people who think (I'm one of them), that in time Android OS will become more popular than iOS on tablets. This isn't about quality, or hating, or anything juvenile, it's simply about how many manufacturers Google is partnered with, and the breadth of choices.

What I was expecting with the XOOM, though, was for the Tegra 2 architecture to be quicker than that of the iPad's, and as we've seen, that's definitely been wrong. :)


I agree, i think it's clear what the better tablet is and will be for some time. People can say what they want about what might happen but it hasn't and considering the fact that the iPad's really are the best as well as one of the cheapest tablet computers so far, I don't see anyone beating them. Let us not forget that people know about good tablets largely because of apple. Which means their fans will also grow in numbers and apple fans are loyal.:p:apple:
 
The reality is, both iPad and Honeycomb tablets will coexist in the market for some time - no one will crush the other. I bought a XOOM mainly for the higher res screen (1280x800), free upgrade to LTE this summer, 1GB RAM and because it's a Google flagship device so it'll get OTA updates frequently and for a long time (see Nexus One for reference).
:D

What does that have to do with the fact that in the last 18 months Android has taken over US and global smartphone market share from Apple? What is to stop that from happening with the tablet market? Nothing.

Apple isn't going anywhere but it may get relegated to 10% marketshare like in the PC market today - may not matter to you but I doubt Apple's investors are ok with it.

Got news for you. The Xoom is not a Google flagship device like Nexus One. The Xoom is made by Moto. A Xoom, Galaxy, or any other Android device will get its one month in the spotlight then disappears. Each device will be replaced by another Android device in the market. You'll be lucky to get any kind of upgrade and support beyond 4-6 months.

I'm an AAPL stockholder. Profitability is what matters to investors. Market share is for bragging rights but doesn't pay the bill. Example: look at General Motors.

A 10% market share may still be good. Look at the iPhone and its 4% global market share. If the iPhone was a separate company, its market value would be more than that of Motorola, RIM, Nokia, HTC - combine.
 
The XOOM honestly is a lot better than I thought it would be. The OS is buggy for sure but it's a 1.0 release and if history has taught us anything it's that Google is committed to Android (is one of the few companies with more money than Apple to throw at it) and they will rev this thing like crazy. Also the Moto XOOM is Google's reference hardware so it will get updates faster and more frequently than anything else. Also it's upgradable to 4G for free so I can use it in 6 months on LTE without paying Apple another $600 for the same piece of hardware with a different modem.

SO yes, it's not for many people but it really is quite a nice tablet. Battery life is as good if not better than my iPad1 was and that wasn't even 3G. The build is great, solid and the weight is fine for me.

I'm using it because I want to be part of the buildup of it just as when I bought an iPhone 1 on launch day and rode the wave up with Apple as they released new features. It's exciting that way :)

So with the floodgates open for other Android makers to introduce their own tablets in the coming months, you think that the Xoom will still be supported in 6 months?

With the iPad 2 release, the Xoom is already obsolete. Have you look at the performance comparison?:eek:
 
Only thing i see why the ipad overtakes the zoom is because of the ipad use of gpu acceleration. Apps will come in due time. Although ipad has thousands of apps i only use no more then 5 of them.
 
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