So much for the Xoom/Android will crush iPad argument

[Carouser]

It's weird that it is the same weight. Maybe it feels heavier because of the design/compact modeling. It's almost more "dead weight"...know what I mean?

It has a lot to do with density - perception of weight and actual density don't scale colinearly, IIRC. In other words, a volume exactly twice as big with twice the mass won't feel twice as heavy. Balance and shape also affect perception of weight as well. Sometimes weight is reassuring, too. Very lightweight objects can feel fragile or off-putting to the consumer (see: very light titanium eyewear, carbon fiber products).

[Brilliant post]

It's like the MP3 market. Dominated and decimated by Apple so much that 'iPod' is almost a genericized trademark. Electronics websites have as a category 'iPod and MP3 players' and now they have 'iPad and tablets' as a category. If you keep your eye on catching up with first, you'll always be second, so in the current market, companies can either change focus, leapfrog Apple (yeah right), or get steamrolled.

They could start making all kinds of devices like you listed to work with iPad; it would be cool.

Or they could send their engineers back to reinvigorate the laptop market - the other tablets are expensive and for spec-hounds, so satisfy that market with thin, powerful, business laptops, instead of trying to replace the everyman iPad with an overgrown brick. This laptop/nerd market will continue to exist; tackle that front, and in two years if the tablet market cools down and has an opening for an underdog, take it then.

Hi Steve, didn't know you read these boards.

Rolleyes indeed. You have no idea how much that isn't worth his time.

Now imagine, with a bit more maturity for Android, more apps, and better/cheaper manufacturing, iPad may be de-throned.

I would never bet against Apple's current position. Perhaps you would. Good luck.

All this was said last year when the Nexus One launched. Now who owns the smartphone market? Enough said

I don't know, how much profit did Apple generate? Nice to see Nexus One made a big flash in the pan, I guess.

 

[mobilehavoc]

What does that have to do with the fact that in the last 18 months Android has taken over US and global smartphone market share from Apple? What is to stop that from happening with the tablet market? Nothing.

Apple isn't going anywhere but it may get relegated to 10% marketshare like in the PC market today - may not matter to you but I doubt Apple's investors are ok with it.

I don't know, how much profit did Apple generate? Nice to see Nexus One made a big flash in the pan, I guess.

 

[Carouser]

What does that have to do with the fact that in the last 18 months Android has taken over US and global smartphone market share from Apple?

Android has taken over marketshare because they've dumped Android into anything which will take it. Apple keeps iOS closely tied to specific devices. That's why. It hasn't hurt Apple at all. You take it to mean 'Apple doesn't own the smartphone market', I take it mean. . . nothing because Apple is raking in tons of cash and is poised to continue to do so.

Apple isn't going anywhere but it may get relegated to 10% marketshare like in the PC market today - may not matter to you but I doubt Apple's investors are ok with it.

Have you looked at AAPL lately? Yes, there is always the hypothetical chance that things will turn upside down. That abstract chance means zero when you have to put your money where your mouth is. It's a good thing to be holding Apple shares right now. Would you advise someone to trade them?

 

[BaldiMac]

What does that have to do with the fact that in the last 18 months Android has taken over US and global smartphone market share from Apple?

Don't you have to have something before it can be taken from you? Apple's smartphone marketshare has continued to grow year over year. Android is taking market share from Windows Whatever and Blackberry and Symbian and Palm.

What is to stop that from happening with the tablet market? Nothing.

What a silly question and answer. You could also say the exact opposite. As I pointed out before, the market factors are vastly different in the smartphone market and the tablet market. Mainly because of the influence of the carriers in the smartphone market. There is no reason to think the two markets will behave the same.

Apple isn't going anywhere but it may get relegated to 10% marketshare like in the PC market today - may not matter to you but I doubt Apple's investors are ok with it.

I doubt Apple's investors are unhappy that Apple is the most profitable PC manufacturer in the industry.

 

[redman042]

Android has its advantages. But it will never be the cohesive, incredibly polished experience that Apple provides. Never. It is going down a different track and it has it's place on the market.

But Apple owns, and from every indication, it will for quite some time.

 

[lilo777]

The usual Fandroid/Apple haters are remarkably silent.

It is amusing to read the comments about how Apple blew the launch, missed the boat, etc or that the device's lack of USB/Thunderbolt or file system will impact it's success.

The people are speaking with their wallets. The iPad hits the mark for the average consumer. USB be damned. Customization or "open" OS doesn't seem to matter much.

I am very happy with my first gen iPad so I am sitting this one out although it is very tempting.

Is Apple or the iPad perfect? Of course not, but Apple continues to set the bar.

And your observation is based on what? iPad 2 launch? iPhone 4 was met just as enthusiastically and yet Android is already more popular. One million people buying iDevice on a launch day does not make that much of a difference on a global scheme.

 

[Krandor]

What does that have to do with the fact that in the last 18 months Android has taken over US and global smartphone market share from Apple? What is to stop that from happening with the tablet market? Nothing.

Android is now being used on "Dumb Phones" because it is free. That might count for an andoid unit, but is no way close to an iPhone. Apple still dominates the Smart Phone arena.

 

[Piggie]

Android has its advantages. But it will never be the cohesive, incredibly polished experience that Apple provides. Never. It is going down a different track and it has it's place on the market.

But Apple owns, and from every indication, it will for quite some time.

I agree.

The only thing Apple can do wrong, well not the only thing, but one main thing, is to get complacent when it comes to hardware.

Ok, so they dropped the ball deliberately on the camera's, but the rest of the device is going to carry that issue through anyway.

Whilst Apple do as they did this time, and, unlike the iMac's the lead the hardware, and fit the best the industry has then they will capture the tech geeks ago.

If, Apple get lazy and Android devices start passing it, in terms of hardware, then a certain sector of the market will make a move.

With iPad2, Apple have picked the best they could fit, apart from camera's of course, so it's almost a no brainer.

As long as they keep doing that, they they are in very safe territory.

 

[Carouser]

iPhone 4 was met just as enthusiastically and yet Android is already more popular.

That's because Android is an OS that is included on a range of devices from several manufacturers, whereas the iPhone 4 is one device sold from one manufacturer. Do you get this? It's like saying The blue VW Golf is losing marketshare to red cars.

 

[vincenz]

In two months people will be asking what a Xoom even is.

 

[fertilized-egg]

What does that have to do with the fact that in the last 18 months Android has taken over US and global smartphone market share from Apple? What is to stop that from happening with the tablet market? Nothing..

One big difference is that Apple came all the way from being 0% in market to be one of the top phone makers. They never had a lead. If you look at the phone markets, before Android there were Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, etc all selling a ton of smartphones and featurephones. Now the exactly same companies are doing it with Android, replacing their WinMo, Symbian and featuresphones with various Android ones. Apple is practically selling as many phones as they can make. The true big losers here are Microsoft and Nokia, which explains why they got married recently.

Unlike the phone market, Apple has a huge lead in the new tablet market as they are the ones who created the market. They have leading marketshare, industrial design better than anyone, a complete ecosystem, and even competitive pricing. Everybody's now just trying to catch Apple's market lead. When was the last time this happened? It was with the MP3 players and we know what happened there. Apple decimated the competition. (RIP Zune, I actually liked you)

I don't expect the same carbon copy of the MP3 market scenario to play out here as the tablet market is still controlled by the carriers' to some extent, but I doubt anyone will catch Apple anytime soon. Unlike phones, the iPad is now THE tablet, just as the iPod was.

 

[Icaras]

That's because Android is an OS that is included on a range of devices from several manufacturers, whereas the iPhone 4 is one device sold from one manufacturer. Do you get this? It's like saying The blue VW Golf is losing marketshare to red cars.

Awesome analogy and very true

 

[mobilehavoc]

I was about to post a reply and then I remembered this is Macrumors.com and it's a pointless battle. Feel free to believe what you want. Apple isn't going anywhere, I own plenty of their products including an iPad and an iPad2 (wife's) and a new MBP but I believe the smartphone and tablet markets are going to eventually be owned by Android globally.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[mobilehavoc]

That's because Android is an OS that is included on a range of devices from several manufacturers, whereas the iPhone 4 is one device sold from one manufacturer. Do you get this? It's like saying The blue VW Golf is losing marketshare to red cars.

One quick clarification though...I never said hardware. I'm talking about PLATFORMs so it is a relevant comparison. iOS vs Android. Not iPhone4 vs Android phones. I don't doubt iPhone 4 is the best selling smartphone in the world. I'm talking about platform marketshare similar to PC vs Mac.

Windows runs on many manufacturer's PCs and has like 90% marketshare while OSX runs on Apple products and has 10% marketshare. I own a Mac so I understand the appeal but the reality remains that PCs still own the market.

Same thing with iOS and Android. Last year iOS was up there in marketshare (this includes iPod Touch btw) and now Android is in the lead.

Where the users/market goes, so do the developers and the apps. That is all.

 

[fertilized-egg]

I was about to post a reply and then I remembered this is Macrumors.com and it's a pointless battle.

Of course.

Feel free to believe what you want. ... but I believe the smartphone and tablet markets are going to eventually be owned by Android globally.

Smartphones, sure, because I think pretty much every featurephone will be replaced with Android-based phones. Also the phone market is such a huge one with all sorts of different factors. However I personally don't see why people will pick Android over others in the tablet market, especially once Microsoft jumps into it with their own touch-optimized tablet OS.

One quick clarification though...I never said hardware. I'm talking about PLATFORMs so it is a relevant comparison
...
Windows runs on many manufacturer's PCs and has like 90% marketshare while OSX runs on Apple products and has 10% marketshare. I own a Mac so I understand the appeal but the reality remains that PCs still own the market.

A few things behind the success of DOS and Windows as a platform, IMHO:

- IBM-PC got to the market before Macs and quickly got business adoption
- IBM-PC had many killer apps, e.g. Lotus 1-2-3, Wordperfect, etc
- IBM-PC spawned many clones that were much much cheaper than Macs

Android has none of the advantages with tablets. In fact if anything it's Apple with many of those advantages apart from not being licensed to others, but Apple has kept the pricing down so far so the price advantage hasn't been materialized by Android.

 

[Krandor]

Where the users/market goes, so do the developers and the apps. That is all.

That is where phone vs phone is more relevant then platform vs platform. An Android app is not going to run on every single device that runs Android since Android is put on a lot of things that cannot run apps or cannot run every app.

So a developer cannot say that Androis is on 10,000 devices over iOs on 9,000. It matters how many of those can run what you want to run.

Then with Android the upgrade issue is an issue. Let's say I write an app designed for gingerbread. I probably just halfed the number of devices that can run the app. If I write an ios 4.3 App it can run on all iOS devices from the last 2 years.

Those are all big considerations for apps and developers.

 

[mobilehavoc]

Of course.



Smartphones, sure, because I think pretty much every featurephone will be replaced with Android-based phones. Also the phone market is such a huge one with all sorts of different factors. However I personally don't see why people will pick Android over others in the tablet market, especially once Microsoft jumps into it with their own touch-optimized tablet OS.

Have you played with a Xoom for an extended period of time? I think the iPad hardware is fantastic but the OS leaves a lot to be desired which is why I jumped ship (although I still have an iPad2 in the house if needed). The notifications, only icons (no widgets/glanceable info) and horrible multitasking really drove me crazy after a while. Best example - The Daily reading an article, hit multitasking bar and switch or go to home screen, come back and BOOM start all over again. DROVE ME NUTS.

The XOOM honestly is a lot better than I thought it would be. The OS is buggy for sure but it's a 1.0 release and if history has taught us anything it's that Google is committed to Android (is one of the few companies with more money than Apple to throw at it) and they will rev this thing like crazy. Also the Moto XOOM is Google's reference hardware so it will get updates faster and more frequently than anything else. Also it's upgradable to 4G for free so I can use it in 6 months on LTE without paying Apple another $600 for the same piece of hardware with a different modem.

SO yes, it's not for many people but it really is quite a nice tablet. Battery life is as good if not better than my iPad1 was and that wasn't even 3G. The build is great, solid and the weight is fine for me.

I'm using it because I want to be part of the buildup of it just as when I bought an iPhone 1 on launch day and rode the wave up with Apple as they released new features. It's exciting that way

 

[Krandor]

The XOOM honestly is a lot better than I thought it would be. The OS is buggy for sure but it's a 1.0 release and if history has taught us anything it's that Google is committed to Android (is one of the few companies with more money than Apple to throw at it) and they will rev this thing like crazy. Also the Moto XOOM is Google's reference hardware so it will get updates faster and more frequently than anything else.

"upgrade more often then anything else". So the xoom will get 2 android updates instead of just one like most devices?

The one thing history has taught us is that device manufacters are slow to upgrade the OS on Android devices.

 

[rdowns]

which is why I jumped ship

Finally, someone man enough to back up their words with actions.

(although I still have an iPad2 in the house if needed).

Jumped ship with an iPad 2. My, how brave.

 

[erzhik]

All this bashing needs to stop. Honeycomb is in it's early stages, iOS is not. Xoom is a first true Android tablet (Galaxy tab was a failure in my eyes), iPad2 is not.

1. Honeycomb is in it's very early stage, nobody said Xoom will destroy iPad sales. It won't happen because iPad1 already gained its fans.

2. Let Xoom test the waters with Honeycomb. Let Honeycomb become more mature.

3. All of you hardcore Apple fans need to realize that competition is GOOD for consumers. Nobody wants to live in a monopoly market.

4. Sales of Xoom/Honeycomb devices will never come close to Apple because none of the manufacturers have their own dedicated stores like Apple, they have to rely on BB and others.

5. Remember when Android first came out and Apple fans said it will never gain traction? Well guess what.. It did and it has become much more popular than iPhone around the world. Same thing with tablets, Honeycomb will take off soon. You can argue all you want about Android being on more devices compared to one iPhone, but Android is still a leader.

Android will dominate the market, like it or not. It's just true. If you don't believe it, better look at the statistics. I have a Xoom myself, while sure more apps would be great, I also understand that Honeycomb is still only 2-3 weeks old. Apps are coming, only a matter of time. My guess with wi-fi only Xoom, apps will become optimized quicker.

And to OP, Apple has NOT set the bar. Competitive market overall sets the bar. If it wasn't for competition, I doubt Apple would jam in a dual-core processor.

And before you bash me for being an Apple hater, I'm not. I have a Macbook Pro and absolutely love it. I had an iPad1, returned it because it didn't fit my needs. I have more Apple products at my home than most Apple fans. I just see it as it is. I don't care how many more millions of units iPad sells, Xoom is what I needed for myself, this is what I use. Even if Motorola sold only 100 tablets, I would still not return mine.

And if you really think that Android market will have less apps than Apple, you are living in denial. Android is too important for devs to ignore.

 

[fertilized-egg]

...
The XOOM honestly is a lot better than I thought it would be. The OS is buggy for sure but it's a 1.0 release and if history has taught us anything it's that Google is committed to Android (is one of the few companies with more money than Apple to throw at it) and they will rev this thing like crazy.

Sure you could very well be right and I'd like to have a chance with the Xoom soon but I'm not really convinced about the parallel with the mobile phone market. Google can rev Android like crazy, but the fact is none of Google's hardware make has clout in the tablet market like they had in the mobile phone sector. They are all starting from 0 and the biggest personal computer company in the world bailed on Android by picking up their own OS.

The MP3 market saw a number of companies all claiming much better feature set than the iPod and they had significantly loyal followings all claiming how inferior the iPods were(and that general public was sheeps for buying iPods) However none of the non-iPod MP3s came anywhere close to matching Apple's lead in the market.

The tablet market will probably be somewhere between those but I doubt if it'll be anything like the phone market.

Android will dominate the market, like it or not. It's just true. If you don't believe it, better look at the statistics.

No it's a speculation just like this posting of mine.

Statistics say Apple is absolutely killing the tablet market and dominated the MP3 market. And no.. Apple never dominated the phone market.

 

[Tailpike1153]

Where the users/market goes, so do the developers and the apps. That is all.

Still waiting to see what causes the mass exodus to Droid or WP.

 

[mobilehavoc]

Still waiting to see what causes the mass exodus to Droid or WP.

You do realize it's not like people with iPads and iPhones are the only people who buy devices? There's a larger gorup of people who still own neither adn those are the people buying Android devices which is why their marketshare is skyrocketting. Apple has great brand loyalty but with the amount of Android devices saturating the world and soon tablet devices, it's impossible for Android not to gain traction.

The XOOM is the closest thing I have seen to Apple hardware. The front is all gorilla glass, the back is half metal (not fake) and half premium rubberized feeling material. It looks great. It's solid and doesn't have any plastic I can feel - even the buttons are rubberized (volume controls). Moto makes great hardware and Google is providing the OS.

Sure its not the same as Apple doing both but it's a good start. Samsung and HTC also have a reputation for putting out great hardware and so the iPad needs more than just hardware to maintain the lead - they need to revamp IOS in a major way to keep up IMHO.

 

[mobilehavoc]

Finally, someone man enough to back up their words with actions.



Jumped ship with an iPad 2. My, how brave.

Mainly because I'm not a fanboy and I realize the shortcomings of both devices. I keep the iPad around for IOS apps/games until they're out on Android. Day to day though I use my XOOM. I haven't touched the iPad in a while. I realized that even while I had the iPad, I would have 5 pages of apps and use maybe 3-4 apps frequently. Just me I guess.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Ok, didn't read through all the posts on here, but most of them. I don't know who has ever said that the xoom would crush anything (and they were quite mis-informed). Anyone who pays attention to anything should realize and understand that this is the first real android tablet... Remember the G1? Did that take off and kill the iPhone? Was anyone really expecting it to? Did Android fight it's way up to the number 1 spot over the following 2 years? That's kind of the general idea behind what Android will do with the tablet market. And how will they do this? Through a butt load of manufacturers, a butt load of supply chains, a butt load of price points, a butt load of variety, and of course a brand new shiny "Best Android Tablet on the Market!!" every month or so (just what they did in the smartphone arena). Ok then, now that we understand what is expected....

Let me state that I have been in that "android will surpass iOS" camp for a few months now. It won't be instantaneous, but over the next couple years the market will be overcroweded with android tablets and people can be persuaded into anything (and of course Honeycomb will progress). But now I am starting to rethink that idea. The three main reasons anroid took off for smartphones don't apply so much for the ipad. 1) The iPad is already a great low price (and apparently Apple could always lower it if their lead is threatened). 2) The iPad is already in tons of supply chains all over the world. and most importantly 3) everyone who wants an iPad can have one, regardless of their wireless carrier!!! I think a large part of the reason why android took off is because it was seen as the "iPhone-like device on my currrent carrier". Look at the number of ppl on at&t using android... I think that number would be similar across the globe if the iPhone were on every carrier.

So now I'm not so sure what the future looks like for Android, but I'm sure with Android, WebOS, RIM, and Microsoft, the competition will be great enough to keep Apple on their toes! As it should be. I love competition

Hi everyone, and I am Apple Hater / Fandroid / whatever else you want me to label. And I have iPad 2.

Oh boy this is going to be fun!

In my opinion, Android simply needs to mature a bit. When iPad 1 came out, there were no iPad optimized apps. This is what Honeycomb is facing now. Steve laughed at "150 launch apps" on Honeycomb. How many apps did iPhone launch with?

Ok, well first Steve laughed at 100 apps and said that number was very optomistic (and this was a couple weeks after the xoom was released). The original iPhone of course didn't have an App Store (nobody did at the time), but when the iPhone 3G launched with an App Store there were about 500 apps available. And they were all good quality apps too, I downloaded a bunch from the get-go!

and there were over 2,000 iPad optimized apps at the launch of the original iPad... So you need to get your figures straight.

Also, FYI the Mac App Store launched with over 1,000 apps. It would be a disgrace for Apple to launch an app store with nothing available... just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.