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So will Apple ever offer us the full web in a tablet device like the others do?

Irishman said:
Yeah, I don't know what brand of crack the kids are smokin' over there, but around here we realize F to be a waste of time. Shows no signs of going away? HTML 5 is quickly taking over its functionality. If anyone is hanging their "full web experience" hat on F, their giving F much more credit than it deserves.

F is not "the full web".

Period.

End of story.

Soooo, please put down the golden crack pipe and clear your head. :)
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Over here the kids are more grounded in reality.

HTML 5 will never be as robust as Flash.

While Flash is not "the full web", it is part of the full web, and not being able to view flash elements does not give you the full web.

Your dislike of Flash is irrelevant in this matter.
 
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darngooddesign said:
Over here the kids are more grounded in reality.

HTML 5 will never be as robust as Flash.

While Flash is not "the full web", it is part of the full web, and not being able to view flash elements does not give you the full web.

Your dislike of Flash is irrelevant in this matter.
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I agree.

Not including Flash in something the size of the iPad with the processing power of the iPad is ridiculous.

We all know if the iPad offered flash but the competition took the stance Apple has right now, they'd be dogging the competition for that decision.

Anyone that defends Apple's decision about not including Flash with the iPad is the definition of the fanboy.
 
RedWings said:
Anyone that defends Apple's decision about not including Flash with the iPad is the definition of the fanboy.
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If you're criticizing people for acting based on something other than information you can cheerfully look to yourself. Apple, as a company, has many reasons to work against Flash. It is insecure, unstable, and Apple has a history of getting Flash's sloppy seconds. On the mobile platform, it is even more unstable, unreliable, and inconsistent. That's fine for techie folk who understand these things, and are happy enough to have the option present for those cases when it is truly useful, but for the general market—people who won't understand why that video is not working properly, why their scrolling sucks all of a sudden, or why their battery life seems so terrible while they're addicted to some Flash game: Apple gets to take the blame for all those things and field the support calls for all those problems. It damages the conception of their band in the eyes of consumers. Their decision is plenty logical and justified.

Maybe some people hate Flash just because it seems like the right thing to do, using a platform which doesn't support it, and this is in ways the very definition of 'fanboyism', but check your information before throwing out blanket 'fanboy' statements. It may come across as ignorant, demeaning, and uninformed.
 
RedWings said:
I agree.

Not including Flash in something the size of the iPad with the processing power of the iPad is ridiculous.

We all know if the iPad offered flash but the competition took the stance Apple has right now, they'd be dogging the competition for that decision.

Anyone that defends Apple's decision about not including Flash with the iPad is the definition of the fanboy.
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Pretty much. They know it too, which is why there's always such a strong opposition. Like I said, it's scary that some old guy somewhere can change somebody's mind to make them think that a major web standard powering 70% of the web is a dying platform, especially when the desktop OS his company makes barely makes 10% of the market.
 
mKTank said:
Pretty much. They know it too, which is why there's always such a strong opposition. Like I said, it's scary that some old guy somewhere can change somebody's mind to make them think that a major web standard powering 70% of the web is a dying platform, especially when the desktop OS his company makes barely makes 10% of the market.
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Making up the 70% figure. Once again. Not anywhere close to accurate.
 
mKTank said:
Pretty much. They know it too, which is why there's always such a strong opposition. Like I said, it's scary that some old guy somewhere can change somebody's mind to make them think that a major web standard powering 70% of the web is a dying platform, especially when the desktop OS his company makes barely makes 10% of the market.
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Why do you keep repeating the incorrect information that Flash is a "web standard" and that it powers "70% of the web". Neither of these statements is true.

I'm not sure what Apple's US PC market share has to do with anything.
 
BaldiMac said:
Why do you keep repeating the incorrect information that Flash is a "web standard" and that it powers "70% of the web". Neither of these statements is true...
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While Flash is not a web standard, it is ubiquitous enough to be considered the standard method of delivering (non-video) animation on the web.
 
http://www.mobilemarketer.com/cms/opinion/columns/5980.html

o 1.2 billion mobile phones are Flash-capable
o 70 percent of online gaming sites run Flash
o 98 percent of Internet-enabled desktops use it
o 85 percent of top 100 Web sites use Flash
o No. 1 platform for video on the Web – 75 percent of all videos use Flash, including Hulu, Disney and YouTube
o 2-3-million-person Flash developers community
o 90 percent of creative professionals have Adobe software on their desktops

lol flash is dying
 
mKTank said:
http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html
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I'm impressed that they list their methodology (sample sizes, representativeness, etc.).

Yet the temporal measure, used to track penetration over time, is what version of Flash player is installed. This prompts more questions than it answers -

How many computer users have Flash installed for them?
How many people have Flash set to update automatically?
How many people update Flash out of habit?
Since what date has there been an alternative to Flash?
What is the penetration of HTML5?
What are the trends in Flash on the supply side?

This last question is particularly important. Users don't care what format their media is in. They only care if they can get that media (with one important caveat, below). The number of people who go looking for Flash content specifically, rather than information, is not statistically significant. If supply of Flash dwindles, nobody will miss it. If supply of information, websites, games, video, dwindles, then people will notice.

The important caveat: Users don't care what format their media is in. They only care if they can get that media all other things being the same. I'd rather have non-Flash iOS than an 'equivalent' non-iOS device which has Flash, because of other considerations - the quality of the device, App store, design, other features, etc. If iOS ever gets Flash, that's great. If it doesn't, that's great too. I'm free to choose. None of this means that iOS is 'wrong' to not have Flash or that 'full web' is a meaningful term.

Hey mkTank, next time just call everyone fanboys. They'll spend less effort showing how your posts are full of nonsense.

Shorter version: Measures of penetration are not measures of mkTank's point, plain and simple.
 
darngooddesign said:
Your dislike of Flash is irrelevant in this matter.
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Actually, you couldn't be more wrong.

My dislike, and the dislike of many more, of Flash, IS the point. Steve was just the first corporate head who had the cojones to call it out for being a poor example of a "web standard".

Do you work for Adobe?
 
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