So will Apple ever offer us the full web in a tablet device like the others do?

[BaldiMac]

You must remember that you are no more important that anyone else.

But people that want to experience the whole internet without having to rely on the Flash plugin are less important than the people who do?

You're needs and your preferences are no more important than mine, or mine yours. Everyone who uses the internet has their own interests and things that they enjoy. Be it reference works on nuclear physics or seeing how many balls they can throw in a hoop. It is for everyone.

As long as Adobe chooses to support my platform of choice.

What people who are trying to argue in favour of Flash are attempting to explain is that they feel, the best way is for any device to be able to offer people as wide a range of "what's out there" as possible.

And they ignore any possible tradeoffs of supporting as wide a range of "what's out there" as possible.

So that you and a 5 year old child you loves funny animations can both equally enjoy the richness of the internet.

But wouldn't it be better is those funny animations were in an open standard that anyone could access?

You perhaps (I have not followed your text) and/or others are arguing that devices should be made that restrict what can be seen by everyone as you don't like it or want it.

Every device restricts what can be seen by everyone. Especially mobile devices.

As a consumer, you should never argue for less, or for options to be taken away from you. That is a silly way, unless it hurts people like drugs, or guns.

When you use the word "never" in your argument, chances are you are not thinking things through. Especially when you disprove the argument with your next sentence.

What makes this argument even more stupid is that it's not a true belief, it's a constructed belief based upon some argument between two companies and the views of one person at the head of Apple.

For some people. But I suppose the fanboy argument has to come up every 6.7 posts or so. Considering I've been blocking Flash for 5 years because of reasons that Jobs never even mentioned, I'm going to argue that my true belief was not influenced by Jobs. I do appreciate him supporting my decision though.

If Apple had (or did) work with Adobe, Flash could now be running on Mac's and iPads as smooth as silk and PC owners would be complaining that it runs on Mac's better, and then Apple fans would be saying how great Flash is as the company they like fully supports is.

Because you can see all alternative futures.

It's a totally made up argument in the 1st place.

Because standing on principle is only for imaginary people.

But as I said, you should never argue and champion for things to be taken away and choice to be removed.

Except for the things that you agree should be taken away and removed such as drugs and guns.

And you are the one arguing for choice to be removed. People that support Flash have many, many choices. You are arguing to remove the choice of a device that doesn't support Flash. What choice am I arguing to remove? Can't remove a choice that doesn't exist.

There are many things I don't like or don't want, but I don't go telling others that my needs are more important than their needs as that would make me look an ass.

And yet here you are telling people that don't want Flash that their needs are less important than your needs. The lack of Flash on iOS devices is increasing the amount of content available to us.

But then again, I know I'm wasting my breath with all this

Depends on what you are trying to do. If you are trying to have a discussion, than probably not. But if you are trying to convert everyone to your way of thinking, than you probably are.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

I wonder what all the FBs reactions are going to be like, if in the next iPad event Steve is gonna do the "one more thing..." and say "...and it runs Flash!" and the crowd cheers!!!

 

[mKTank]

I wonder what all the FBs reactions are going to be like, if in the next iPad event Steve is gonna do the "one more thing..." and say "...and it runs Flash!" and the crowd cheers!!!

Probably "Wow, I just realized I've always loved Flash."

 

[BaldiMac]

I wonder what all the FBs reactions are going to be like, if in the next iPad event Steve is gonna do the "one more thing..." and say "...and it runs Flash!" and the crowd cheers!!!

Do you seriously wonder that, or are you just trying to imply that anyone that does not like Flash is an Apple fanboy?

If you want a real answer, than the reaction will be varied. You will have your fringe crazies that will change their opinion at the drop of your hat. You will have the majority of anti-Flash people whose main concern is performance and stability. If Apple has addressed that issue with Adobe, they will be happy. If not, they won't. You will have people that have been so frustrated by the whole situation that they continue with the same arguments they used for the last few years regardless of any changes.

Personally, I would be disappointed. But I would continue to disable Flash on any devices that I use, just as I have on my desktops and laptops for the last five years.

And FYI, the Flashblock extension for Firefox was first developed in 2004, and it has had over 10,000,000 downloads from Mozilla's Addon site. Anti-Flash sentiment did not start with Apple or Steve Jobs.

 

[Moyank24]

Probably "Wow, I just realized I've always loved Flash."

Do you honestly think that everyone who has purchased an iPhone and/or an iPad is a fanboy?

You have completely dismissed numerous reasons as to why many of us don't care about the lack of flash in iOS by representing that we are mindless followers. Not only is it offensive, but it is also shortsighted, unimaginative, and immature.

Seriously, the fanboy argument is overdone and makes you seem just as mindless as those of us you are trying to insult.

 

[mKTank]

Do you seriously wonder that, or are you just trying to imply that anyone that does not like Flash is an Apple fanboy?

If you want a real answer, than the reaction will be varied. You will have your fringe crazies that will change their opinion at the drop of your hat. You will have the majority of anti-Flash people whose main concern is performance and stability. If Apple has addressed that issue with Adobe, they will be happy. If not, they won't. You will have people that have been so frustrated by the whole situation that they continue with the same arguments they used for the last few years regardless of any changes.

Personally, I would be disappointed. But I would continue to disable Flash on any devices that I use, just as I have on my desktops and laptops for the last five years.

And FYI, the Flashblock extension for Firefox was first developed in 2004, and it has had over 10,000,000 downloads from Mozilla's Addon site. Anti-Flash sentiment did not start with Apple or Steve Jobs.

It's not fair to say that Flashblock is used by people who hate Flash. Maybe people want content not to autoload whilst using Stumble Upon or sites that automatically play content in the background? Maybe people don't want to stare at Flash apps and would rather dictate what starts?

I think you gotta be desperate if you try to make a point that weak.

 

[Piggie]

Do you honestly think that everyone who has purchased an iPhone and/or an iPad is a fanboy?

You have completely dismissed numerous reasons as to why many of us don't care about the lack of flash in iOS by representing that we are mindless followers. Not only is it offensive, but it is also shortsighted, unimaginative, and immature.

Seriously, the fanboy argument is overdone and makes you seem just as mindless as those of us you are trying to insult.

I'm sorry but your statement, followed by:

"13" Black MacBook; 16GB iPod Nano 5G; 16GB iPhone 4; 64GB iPad; tv"

Does make me smile

 

[Moyank24]

I'm sorry but your statement, followed by:

"13" Black MacBook; 16GB iPod Nano 5G; 16GB iPhone 4; 64GB iPad; tv"

Does make me smile

It's no secret that I love the products...at least the ones I own and I'm proud of it...It's the reason why most of us are on here.

I just can't stand people who imply that I'm just some blind follower and I'll go any which way Steve Jobs goes. I work too hard for my money, and we all know these products aren't cheap. And I'm certainly not going to give it to some billionaire because I think he's the Messiah or something.

I'm all for a lively debate. But it's so freaking annoying when the only comeback is...but, but...you're a fanboy! It's just so old.

 

[Piggie]

It's no secret that I love the products...at least the ones I own and I'm proud of it...It's the reason why most of us are on here.

I just can't stand people who imply that I'm just some blind follower and I'll go any which way Steve Jobs goes. I work too hard for my money, and we all know these products aren't cheap. And I'm certainly not going to give it to some billionaire because I think he's the Messiah or something.

I'm all for a lively debate. But it's so freaking annoying when the only comeback is...but, but...you're a fanboy! It's just so old.

I agree.

For me, this is all some light hearted arguments, nothing serious.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

Personally, I would be disappointed. But I would continue to disable Flash on any devices that I use, just as I have on my desktops and laptops for the last five years.

Would you continue to disable Flash if it would run good? And I shouldn´t even use the "if", ´cause many people are saying that it runs great already. Adobe has made it a lot better.

I haven´t had any problems with Flash. Few crashes sure, but reloading the page has taken care of that. I´ve had even more crashes with iPhone´s phone app and had to restart the whole device. So I could say Flash is more stable than iPhone´s phone app.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

I'm all for a lively debate. But it's so freaking annoying when the only comeback is...but, but...you're a fanboy! It's just so old.

It´s the same as "you´re a troll!".

 

[BaldiMac]

It's not fair to say that Flashblock is used by people who hate Flash.

Luckily, I never said that.

Maybe people want content not to autoload whilst using Stumble Upon or sites that automatically play content in the background? Maybe people don't want to stare at Flash apps and would rather dictate what starts?

In other words, they are not completely happy with how Flash currently works.

Would you continue to disable Flash if it would run good? And I shouldn´t even use the "if", ´cause many people are saying that it runs great already. Adobe has made it a lot better.

Yes, because my objections to flash are not primarily about performance. They are about privacy and the principle of an open internet.

I haven´t had any problems with Flash. Few crashes sure, but reloading the page has taken care of that. I´ve had even more crashes with iPhone´s phone app and had to restart the whole device. So I could say Flash is more stable than iPhone´s phone app.

Good for you!

 

[Irishman]

And yes, I´m talking about the infamous "F word".

It seems that all the other tablets are starting to offer the full web experience. F is now much better and efficient and looks like it´s never going away, at least for a very long time. The hardware is also much more powerful now.

Will Apple swallow their pride? Ever? iPad 2? Maybe 3?

Or do we who would like a full web in a tablet device have to start looking elsewhere? Or maybe just get a MBA then?

Yeah, I don't know what brand of crack the kids are smokin' over there, but around here we realize F to be a waste of time. Shows no signs of going away? HTML 5 is quickly taking over its functionality. If anyone is hanging their "full web experience" hat on F, their giving F much more credit than it deserves.

F is not "the full web".

Period.

End of story.

Soooo, please put down the golden crack pipe and clear your head.

 

[Irishman]

Hmm... maybe you guys are right... or wrong.

I ran many times into many problems when I´m browsing the web with my iPhone 4. It´s quite annoying. And I really wouldn´t like to have that kind of experience on a 10" tablet device. Now don´t get me wrong, I think it´s ok for the iPhone, after all it´s 3,5" and goes to my pocket... But for a 10" tablet.... I don´t know...

The MBA is also tempting, but touch interface is just cool!

What sites are you visiting on your iPhone 4 where you miss Flash?

 

[mKTank]

Interesting.

Jobs has convinced his sheep that a major web standard that powers over 70% of the web is a bad platform.

Because 90% of the market uses Flash whilst held at gunpoint. Instead of the 10% just being whiny fanboys.

 

[Moyank24]

It´s the same as "you´re a troll!".

I agree...and you will never see me calling anyone a troll, a fanboy, or sheep.

I don't have to revert to name calling when I encounter those who disagree.

 

[bpaluzzi]

Interesting.

Jobs has convinced his sheep that a major web standard that powers over 70% of the web is a bad platform.

Because 90% of the market uses Flash whilst held at gunpoint. Instead of the 10% just being whiny fanboys.

70%? are you serious? Wow. Just. Wow.

 

[BaldiMac]

Interesting.

Jobs has convinced his sheep that a major web standard

What standards body oversees Flash development?

that powers over 70% of the web is a bad platform.

And you repeat a made up stat. Source?

Because 90% of the market uses Flash whilst held at gunpoint. Instead of the 10% just being whiny fanboys.

Aside from the additional made up stats, whoever claimed that people were forced to use Flash at gunpoint? It's really easy to make the other side sound crazy when you just pull arguments out of thin air.

 

[ripper998]

HTML 5 will negate the need for flash, its just getting lazy web designers and developers to use it.

 

[mKTank]

HTML 5 will negate the need for flash, its just getting lazy web designers and developers to use it.

It won't. It's not as capable and doesn't run as fast.

Also I like how Steve says that the iPad fully supports HTML5 when most of the content runs like crap. The only thing that runs OK is video content, but everything else is a joke on the iPad.

 

[BaldiMac]

It won't.

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

It's not as capable and doesn't run as fast.

At this time. For some applications. Yes, Flash is generally more efficient for animation at this time.

Also I like how Steve says that the iPad fully supports HTML5 when most of the content runs like crap. The only thing that runs OK is video content, but everything else is a joke on the iPad.

Says someone that doesn't understand the extent of HTML5. HTML5 isn't just animation or video.

 

[sfphoto]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Frash is available for iPad but perhaps this has been mentioned.

 

[mKTank]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Frash is available for iPad but perhaps this has been mentioned.

Yeah, but videos don't work. Otherwise, Frash runs amazingly well on the iPad. No scroll lag, no issues with battery life, no crashing, no freezing. Should have been the number one indicator that Flash would work just fine on iOS. But some people would rather still serve Steve.

 

[Moyank24]

Yeah, but videos don't work. Otherwise, Frash runs amazingly well on the iPad. No scroll lag, no issues with battery life, no crashing, no freezing. Should have been the number one indicator that Flash would work just fine on iOS. But some people would rather still serve Steve.

Yawn.

And FYI, we will now be serving Tim for an undetermined period of time.

 

[BaldiMac]

Yeah, but videos don't work. Otherwise, Frash runs amazingly well on the iPad. No scroll lag, no issues with battery life, no crashing, no freezing.

It would really make this discussion a lot more reasonable if you stopped making stuff up to support your point.

Should have been the number one indicator that Flash would work just fine on iOS. But some people would rather still serve Steve.

Except, once again, performance was not the only reason, or even the primary reason, that Apple decided not to include Flash on iOS devices. And the performance issues that Jobs described have not been addressed.