Some Power Users Are Unhappy With Lost Features in the New iWork

[RedOrchestra]

"at least we can still use the iWork '09 apps until the iOS/Web/Mac version achieves parity."

You missed the point, it already has achieved parity in '13, by dumbing down the Mac App.

It is what it is - I wouldn't be hanging around the Apple fort waiting for '13 to become more robust - '13 has been gutted.

 

[dombi]

I agree with trying to make things simple. But not by the expense of usability and features.

I use Pages on a daily basis. Version 5 is a complete disaster.
I deleted it after about an hour of trying to figure things out.

I am back to Pages 4.3.

 

[Chlloret]

This is all very troubling. Another instance of dumbing down. I use Pages, and Numbers for my business and was rather looking forward to some new features. A solid foundation was built on IWorks, and the last few iterations have built on that. Now from what I see, there are lots of features that I use that have gone. I don't like the direction that Apple is taking now, they screwed up my IPhone 4 with IOS7, can't downgrade, screwed up FCP, and now the software I use for my quotations, invoices, order tracking etc.
.....

Apple did no such thing. They left you your software, you can continue to use it, there is no one holding a gun to your head saying you have to upgrade. Just because a new version of a software exists (free at that) is not meaning that you HAVE to use it.

We have hundreds of macs in the office, on the mac Pros (lots with G5 prozessors) some years and years old, runs the old FCP that suits us. Why is everyone thinking, that as soon as something new comes out EVERYONE changes? Why should I throw away perfectly working workstations? To save a few minutes over the month? Word is waiting faster in the latest version until you can hit the keyboard?

And seriously, a three year old phone got screwed up because of Apple? Or did YOU install that system without informing yourself first? What is not working anymore? I just put iOS7 on my iPad, I am very happy. I think it looks better, it is faster, the Batterie seems to run longer. I can not see any screw ups.

 

[tardegrade]

A lot of the time, people are essentially saying that they want to work in the way they did in 1998, and stressing that they find it difficult to cope with change. Luddites.

The world changes. Embrace it and find new ways to work. Or choose to stay in the past and become increasingly irrelevant.

So many people seem to think they are "professional" because they use Word or Excel. Good grief, Word and Excel are far from professional tools. Boasting about using Word and Excel stresses the fact that you're an amateur stuck in the last millennium.

The future isn't yours. It isn't Word's. Excel's. Or Microsoft's. The future is racing ahead of you. Learn to embrace change and to master new software. Don't whine about change. Whining will do you no good at all.

So if you took the engine out of an 18 wheeler truck and replaced it with a bicycle chain and told me to peddle, would you then call me a Luddite if I complained about it?

This has got nothing to do with not wanting to embrace change. Pages has been gutted.

If Apple re-introduce the missing features in future releases then I'm sure that the new layout will 'eventually' make for a more fluent application. But what has been released now is crippled software. And this whole "Some power users..." fluff is very disingenuous. It's missing some pretty important basics.

Apple surely knew this was going to happen otherwise why retain the old apps in a separate folder in Applications? What's dumbfounding is that they thought that this was a good idea in the first place. To avoid confusion they would have been better off forking iWork into two suites until the new version is usable.

 

[RedOrchestra]

"Just because a new version of a software exists (free at that) is not meaning that you HAVE to use it."

Absolutely correct EXCEPT everyone has been waiting for continuity between OX and iOS - Apple delivered that by dumbing down the Mac App.

So, yeah, you can still use '09 but you ain't doing it in the Cloud.

 

[peterdevries]

my friend peter.

you cant be this much of an apologist?

you dont think the same thing is going to happen with office apps (libreoffice and google docs are improving as opposed to regressing) as happened with fcp and the customers go elsewhere?

they got all this money and all this revenue yet they can only release half baked solutions? come on.

when people get set in that workflow they dont just jump right back on apple behest.

apple has pretty much destroyed imovie since its 06 version and plugin support

Like I said, I'm not defending this at all. They removed functions that are essential to many users. Bu again, the reason for a rewrite can only be that this is the platform for the future. This means we will see a development of the software. Possibly a development that was not possible from the previous platform.

I used iWork only occasionally but always reverted back to Office due to my requirements in work and some more or less advanced requirements that Pages or Numbers couldn't provide. I will probably use it even less now, but I can see myself coming back if the package improves.

Although I can see that people will abandon the package for good, I can definitely see also an uptick in total usage due to the fact that it is free and the basic functionality being enough for 80% of household tasks. It's fine for most families.

 

[Chlloret]

"Just because a new version of a software exists (free at that) is not meaning that you HAVE to use it."

Absolutely correct EXCEPT everyone has been waiting for continuity between OX and iOS - Apple delivered that by dumbing down the Mac App.

So, yeah, you can still use '09 but you ain't doing it in the Cloud.

Thats right. And you could do that before? You can do that (with ALL features) with MS Office? No? Really?

Everyone wants everything now. Free. In the real world, that might need a bit more time.

 

[IJ Reilly]

It is a rather vague term, although in all the years I have used computers, someone who could use a word processing application and a spreadsheet was not defined as a power user. Obviously that's changed.

Not so much. It was always an arbitrary term, typically used by people who like to feel superior about their knowledge or skills. Back in the day (mid-'80s and earlier), word processing required quite of bit of skill and knowledge.

 

[mattburley7]

im assuming they will fix some of the issues in .1 updates?

 

[mayermiller]

A lot of the time, people are essentially saying that they want to work in the way they did in 1998, and stressing that they find it difficult to cope with change. Luddites.

Insane. It's the other way around: some people wanted to work like in 1998 and now they got it with Pages 2013.

It's hard to believe that so many people get fooled by an 'upgrade' that has no significant changes except removing features to be on par with a weaker and less ergonomic platform like iPad or iPhone. Reason for the blindness must be because it's free. People turn into monkeys when they get free stuff.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Maybe we are not talking about sharing capabilities because we don't need it

And if you want a comprehensive list look this one:

We have already established that some of these features are actually still in iWork, but have been implemented differently.

 

[mayermiller]

Apple "dumbed down" GarageBand as well.

There is no way to use 3rd party amp sims anymore. And there is no way to use Ezdrummer anymore either. No way to add any Apple or other 3rd party effects to any of the channel strips. It's a MESS. Horrible.
The quality team should be ashamed of themselves.

Not quiet correct, you can turn on AUs in audio preferences.

 

[Akula971]

Apple did no such thing. They left you your software, you can continue to use it, there is no one holding a gun to your head saying you have to upgrade. Just because a new version of a software exists (free at that) is not meaning that you HAVE to use it.

We have hundreds of macs in the office, on the mac Pros (lots with G5 prozessors) some years and years old, runs the old FCP that suits us. Why is everyone thinking, that as soon as something new comes out EVERYONE changes? Why should I throw away perfectly working workstations? To save a few minutes over the month? Word is waiting faster in the latest version until you can hit the keyboard?

And seriously, a three year old phone got screwed up because of Apple? Or did YOU install that system without informing yourself first? What is not working anymore? I just put iOS7 on my iPad, I am very happy. I think it looks better, it is faster, the Batterie seems to run longer. I can not see any screw ups.

1. I was thinking about getting a new Mac, can you guarantee that I'll be able install the old IWork on it? I don't think so. It will say that a newer version exists! Most people expect IMPROVEMENTS with new software, not steps backward.
2. When I installed IOS7, there was an option to downgrade it to IOS6.1.3, but before I could Apple stopped signing it on their servers. The sound for music, video's and airplay is now screwed up. Works OK on headphones. Volume slider is greyed out. I am not alone in having this problem. Everything fine in IOS06
3. So what if it is a 3 year old phone. It works, not as well as it did on IOS6. Why replace a perfectly good phone?

I am so pleased that IOS7 on your IPad is making you so very happy. Good for you. And your Battery is lasting longer? How very nice for you. Nothing to do with my post, unrelated nonsense.

----------

We have already established that some of these features are actually still in iWork, but have been implemented differently.

Why change then? So I can spend more unproductive time finding them? No thank you.

 

[TheGdog]

The major achievement with this release is that Apple was able to attain feature parity across all the different iWork apps. Web, desktop, and iOS versions now all have the exact same features. That is a big deal because now you don't have to worry about files being altered depending on where they were created or opened. All features are available in every platform. Even the web.

And that's why they were able to add collaboration too. You can now create a Pages or Keynote document, share it to someone who uses a Windows PC or an iPad and not worry about them messing up your document. Or open up the document you were working on at home while on the road to edit a cell in Numbers on your iPhone without worry.


Microsoft currently has some web and mobile apps for Office but in my experience they are completely useless because using them destroys formatting, messes up your document, and does not offer the same functionality as the native desktop apps. You're constantly wondering if you can use any particular feature if you want mobile access. I don't think Microsoft will ever be able to get feature parity with Office because they can't afford to basically start over and rewrite Office from the ground up like Apple just did. Hell, they can't even get feature parity right across Mac and Windows!

And all Google has is just some web apps so they could add collaboration easily but then you're stuck with just using a web app. No native apps at all.

So it seems Apple has the best long term strategy here for a cross platform and mobile productivity suite. There will be some short term pain though while they build the features back in. But now they can add back features across all platforms simultaneously which will be crucial for true cross platform use.

I agree, the iPad is getting more capable every day. So as time goes on we will get to the point where everything is powerful and cross compatible.

It also seems iWork 09 and the new version work fine with iCloud. I was working on a document yesterday on my work mac (has 09). I had the same document up on my mac at home which is on the new version. When got home and woke up my personal machine, it updated instantly. Im pretty impressed.

 

[IJ Reilly]

"They are used for professional purposes by professionals. Therefore, they are pro products."

While I understand and sympathize with this point of view, this comment is not really helpful to the debate. In every profession there are tools that are considered professional level and consumer level. This is true for photographers, auto mechanics, accountants, doctors, etc. This does not mean that a particular person cannot do pro level work with a consumer level product. But there are certain features or build quality in pro set tools that only professionals need that help them work more efficiently in a wider variety of circumstances than the average consumer will usually encounter.

In this case a writer can use a simple text editor to make his or her living, which therefore makes said text editor a professional tool for that person. However it does not mean that said text editor would have all the features needed that a wide variety of professional writers would need to accomplish a wide variety of professional tasks, and therefore it cannot be classified a "pro" tool.

It's helpful to the debate because it points out the fundamental arbitrariness of the terms of the debate. Quite a few posters to this thread have sniggered at the entire concept that Pages could be used professionally. Well, I've been doing it for the last seven years. Does that make my profession an amateur pursuit? By the terms suggested by some in this debate, it does.

Pages (at least in its prior incarnations) put a lot of power in my hands that Word might also provide, only at the cost of a much steeper learning curve, and with more junk to wade through to find it. To someone who regards himself as a professional, this is a power tool. It gives me more time work on producing product instead of learning software. And most importantly, I think the results are better. More professional, you might say. I would, anyway.

 

[KALLT]

Utterly disappointing, there is no other word for it. I have been using iWork during my studies for years, but find it almost unusable now. I don't want to use MS Office or OpenOffice, I dislike those apps.

Aside from the missing features, I am also puzzled by the new interface. Nothing can be customised anymore. The toolbar is static now, you cannot change it to your workflow anymore. Inspector windows are gone to, replaced with a 'context-aware' sidebar which may work sometimes, but not always. I appreciated that I could open as many inspector windows as I wanted and positioned them where I needed them. You don't have to, but you could.

Is this the future of OS X? Dumbed-down apps without bells and whistles purely to be on par with iOS? If this is what OS X is becoming in the future, then I am really worried about it.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Why change then? So I can spend more unproductive time finding them? No thank you.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing but think this point has been beaten to death already, and mine was that at least some of the feature deletion comments are alarmist, and wrong. To my knowledge nobody has been examining the new version Pages long enough to establish an accurate, comprehensive list of what's been removed vs. just implemented differently.

 

[seclusion]

Using Numbers on iOS filling out forms that I created is working great.
Using pages on iOS filling out a form seems to be extremely slow and laggy.
Never had a problem before.
Hopefully in pages it's a wee bug that can be corrected.
Otherwise all working fine here.

 

[ValSalva]

Wishful thinking.

True. This move by Apple leaves an opening for the Microsoft Surface. Let's see if Microsoft has the marketing savvy and credibility to take advantage of this hopefully temporary Apple weakness.

I think another misstep is that Apple didn't get their iPads ready for immediate availability or a least immediate preorder for right after the October 22nd event. I'd be willing to bet Apple lost a lot of impulse purchases. They left too much time for people to consider alternatives to the iPad or to reconsider whether they actually need updated iPads.

 

[whtrbt7]

The upgrades help with churning out quick and beautiful documents, spreadsheets, and presentations. The downside is that the missing features are normally for more complex functions that I probably wouldn't even use iWork for anyways. Apple might put back features once they've integrated iOS and OSX more.

 

[rayhigh]

Ridiculous. Pages '13 doesn't even have facing pages as an option - WTF?

Luckily was able to restore the old version from Time Machine - I had deleted the old version, never imagining Apple would turn it into retarded crap.

This is the first time I've said this, but I now think Apple has lost their way. Inexcusable.

 

[stuffradio]

As do many of us, when forced by my employers. Thankfully some of us have been liberated from that world on our personal computers with iWork, Google docs, or Open office. .

Some of us do not think those applications are better than MS Office.

 

[Chlloret]

1. I was thinking about getting a new Mac, can you guarantee that I'll be able install the old IWork on it? I don't think so. It will say that a newer version exists! Most people expect IMPROVEMENTS with new software, not steps backward.
2. When I installed IOS7, there was an option to downgrade it to IOS6.1.3, but before I could Apple stopped signing it on their servers. The sound for music, video's and airplay is now screwed up. Works OK on headphones. Volume slider is greyed out. I am not alone in having this problem. Everything fine in IOS06
3. So what if it is a 3 year old phone. It works, not as well as it did on IOS6. Why replace a perfectly good phone?

To 1, yes, on all atm available Macs, all OS, iWorks 09 works. It depens of course, how long you wait. In 1,2 or 3years the situation might change. Also, what you expect and what you get are always two different things. We use iWorks a lot and I did research the new version before I bought it. Since none of the "missing" features affected me, most I did not even know, it was a no brainer.

To 2, if you needed 2 weeks until you decided you now wanted to downgrade again (thats how long it was possible) then I really do not see Apple at fault here. If your volume got messed up, you notice that normally strait away, not weeks later. And to

3, yes I absolutely agree, I hate to throw working gadgets or computers away without reason. I just keep them in there natural habitat. My iPad1 runs on 4.3, my iPhone4 on 6.1, the 4s Phones the same. I know I could go one Version up, same on most of my computers, but the old saying, never change a running system, served me well over the last 30 years, everything is purring allong and just because one COULD somehow squeeze the newest software onto a device that was never build for it, one is not obliged to do it.

With the phones its also a special case, provider support runs for two years (I get every two years new handsets) everything beond that is at your own risk. That was why I said "a three year old phone", I would have left it alone if everything worked.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Ridiculous. Pages '13 doesn't even have facing pages as an option - WTF?

It does. Click in the bottom left corner of the document window.

Again, the list that everyone is taking as gospel is not accurate.

 

[blackhand1001]

Keynote still smashes powerpoint out of the water, Numbers has all the functionality you could need and Pages personally I have found no features missing, I use the suit daily too as I'm studying a degree.

You must not have used a recent version of Microsoft office then. Powerpoint 2007/2010/2013 are all better than keynote. Especially 2013.

Numbers is not even close and neither is pages.