Some Power Users Are Unhappy With Lost Features in the New iWork

[Mainsail]

Apple can either compete with Microsoft in desktop Office software, which is a losing proposition.....or, create a simpler cross-platform solution that enhances their ecosystem. No brainier.

It will be much easier for Apple to enhance and update these apps with this approach, so in the long run, iWorks' capability will likely improve. In the meantime, some folks were left out in the cold and that is unfortunate.....but let's face it, how many iWorks power users are there.....really? On the other hand, there are a huge number of consumers that will be delighted about getting all of these apps for free with cross platform compatibility.

One last related note, Excel is still the tool of choice for the spreadsheet jockey that must do sophisticated and complex analysis. However, for other documents, I have watched many office staff members waste huge amounts of time fooling around with animations, shadings, fonts, and all kinds of unnecessary edits just because they can. Very little value added. So, simplifying some of these Office tools isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[TheGdog]

No keyboard shortcuts for styles even?!? Sorry to say, but I'll have to switch back to Office after this.

They got rid of key shortcuts for styles????? What are they thinking!?!?!?! Now I am not happy!!!!!!

 

[unplugme71]

They haven't just lost a 'few' features though, there are dozens. They've not only massively regressed the features of the desktop applications to a point they're a shadow of their former version , but they have done so in such a massively user-hostile way.

i.e. if you opened a document that you'd been working on in the previous version of Pages, the new version will strip out elements of your document which are no longer supported, fundamentally screwing up the formatting and structure that was fine before, and before you have a chance to revert or save a copy it will auto-save the file over your original rendering it broken and unable to open in your previous application.

I've got a couple of 200+ page books I made in Pages. I tried opening a copy of one of those. It quite literally ******** it beyond recognition. Everything, formatting, page numbering, sections, styles, tables, image wrap. All ********

To even call this abortion the same app is nothing short of shameful

I hope you had a backup of your files.

Personally, I'm still on 10.8 and will remain that way for another few weeks. I want to see what else has changed before I end up having to revert back to 10.8 if needed.

 

[windywalks]

Apple has brought Pages in line with Text Edit...

 

[bilboa]

They are used for professional purposes by professionals. Therefore, they are pro products.

Anything can be considered a Pro product by that definition. I'm sure some professionals use TextEdit for real work too, so TextEdit is a pro product by your definition. Same goes for iPhoto and GarageBand, and point-and-shoot cameras, cheap earbud headphones, etc. I think a more useful definition of Pro product is defined by the intentions of the maker of the product, not the users. If the product is intentionally designed to meet the needs of professionals, then it's a pro product, otherwise it's a consumer product.

 

[sjinsjca]

I don't quite understand why all the snark about "power users" and iWork.

I'm a power user by any definition. I present around the world and have fled PowerPoint for the much more flexible and beautiful Keynote. Similarly, my professional posters are very nicely accomplished in Pages but absolutely hellish to attempt in Word, which is emphatically not a page layout program.

All my most complex work loads without issue into the new iWork. All the needed functionality appears to be present, although moved around the user-interface considerably. I'll find out soon enough next time I craft a complex document, presentation or poster whether everything is intact, but it appears to be.

Could it be that the user-interface rearrangements are part of the problem? That is, not so much a loss of functionality as misplacement?

Meanwhile... the free upgrade maintained the old copy of iWork in my Applications folder. Searching Spotlight for "Pages" or any of the other apps shows both versions. Both versions work. So, if I need something that I can't find in the new version, I can always use the older one.

I suspect this will work out quickly and people will stop grousing and snarking. Oh wait, this is MacRumors, that's what we do...

 

[50548]

Has anyone compiled a list of actual lost features? As opposed to features that are implemented differently.

Excellent question - it seems like too much hoopla for nothing.

 

[bob_hearn]

Y'all miss ClarisWorks yet?

 

[50548]

I don't quite understand why all the snark about "power users" and iWork.

I'm a power user by any definition. I present around the world and have fled PowerPoint for the much more flexible and beautiful Keynote. Similarly, my professional posters are very nicely accomplished in Pages but absolutely hellish to attempt in Word, which is emphatically not a page layout program.

All my most complex work loads without issue into the new iWork. All the needed functionality appears to be present, although moved around the user-interface considerably. I'll find out soon enough next time I craft a complex document, presentation or poster whether everything is intact, but it appears to be.

Could it be that the user-interface rearrangements are part of the problem? That is, not so much a loss of functionality as misplacement?

Meanwhile... the free upgrade maintained the old copy of iWork in my Applications folder. Searching Spotlight for "Pages" or any of the other apps shows both versions. Both versions work. So, if I need something that I can't find in the new version, I can always use the older one.

I suspect this will work out quickly and people will stop grousing and snarking. Oh wait, this is MacRumors, that's what we do...

I tend to agree - during the keynote, Apple emphasized that context-sensitive menus would be the rule in the new iWork suite.

 

[RiK]

I hope you had a backup of your files.

Yup. Been a nerd since the ZX-81, I know the value of a proper backup strategy.

Doesn't mean I'm not disgusted at the totally arrogance they've shown in this. For every user who does have a backup there will be many more who just had their work ruined, and Apple just didn't give a toss about them.

----------

Has anyone compiled a list of actual lost features? As opposed to features that are implemented differently.

How's this for starters:

REMOVED:
Select non-contiguous text
Outline view
Customizable Toolbar
135 templates
Capture pages/sections
Drag reorganize pages
Duplicate pages
Delete page
Manage Pages
Subscript/superscript buttons
Select all instances of a Style
Retain zoom level of document
Facing pages
Layout Breaks
Layout Margins
Endnotes
Media Inspector links to iPhoto library on external drive
Media Inspector links to Aperture Library
Alignment Guides
Styles Drawer
Merge Fields
Drag and Drop VCards
Default Start Up page
Vertical Ruler
Style Function key shortcuts
Bookmarks and Links
Images within Tables
Import Styles
Clean Import of older .pages formatting
User Guide
Search Sidebar
Open Type features
Textbox linking
Background Object selectable
Storyboards
Text to Tables
Tables to Text
Tables in Headers/Footers
Export to .txt or .rtf
Multiple Comments view
T.O.C. clean numbering
Selective formating in Character Styles
Insert File Name
Search in Media Browser
Bullet points in comments
Search comments
Two up view
Paste and keep style
Accented characters in Footer
Mail Merge
Mask with shapes other than rectangle
Find & Replace special characters eg paragraph returns
… and more!

Read more at http://macdailynews.com/2013/10/24/apples-pages-5-0-an-unmitigated-disaster/#OVr2Y2J34T4I571r.99

 

[IJ Reilly]

Anything can be considered a Pro product by that definition. I'm sure some professionals use TextEdit for real work too, so TextEdit is a pro product by your definition. Same goes for iPhoto and GarageBand, and point-and-shoot cameras, cheap earbud headphones, etc. I think a more useful definition of Pro product is defined by the intentions of the maker of the product, not the users. If the product is intentionally designed to meet the needs of professionals, then it's a pro product, otherwise it's a consumer product.

The tendency among many people is to define things they use for their professions as "professional" and to disregard things other people use for theirs as being somehow sub-professional. The distinction is pointless and arbitrary at best and blinkered and arrogant at worst.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

dumbing down features for a full desktop computer or laptop is idiotic.


Design simplicity over functionality is something only Jonathan Ives loves. Customers would love Sleek Smart design, WITH full functionality.

Remember, Ives is the guy who brought us glued together macs with zero upgradability, hard to change memory or hard drives and other innovations that aggravate the userbase.

yes, Ives products look nice, but would it be so bad to actually consider the customer better in the actual design?

Let's face it, Apple products are often Design over Function. Not Designed for Function.

 

[TrashCanBin]

John Gruber believes Apple may be willing to sacrifice overall functionality to create parity across the iOS, OS X and web versions of Pages, Numbers and Keynote over the short-term. However, Apple has not yet given any indication as to what future versions of iWork could look like -- or if they will eventually gain some of the features missing in the new version.
]

You could also create parity by upgrading the OTHER apps to the same level, not downgrading the desktop apps to toy story level.

 

[sero]

Lol. Power users use latex, beamer, vi, awk.. etc.
iWork vs. Office... indeed.

 

[Bear]

The inability to export to RTF is kinda big. I wouldn't consider it a power user feature, it is a nice option when working with cross platform applications.

Not a power user feature? Wouldn't power users be more likely to have a cross platform requirement?

 

[champ01]

So far I like Numbers. Seems like a big plus over Excel for the that I do.

Btw I thought these apps were free of charge from now on.
I had to pay for Keynote on iOS whats that about?

 

[autrefois]

Funny what they call an upgrade. Making the desktop less powerful to be parity with a weaker (IOS) platform is a mistake. Lowest common denominator.

Exactly. I had my doubts when I read the announcements on Tuesday, but I thought maybe, just maybe, feature-parity would mean the Mac versions would stay the same with some additional features, not that they would dumb it down so it's more like iOS.

Compatibility should be improved between the various platforms but not at the price of eliminating features. Do they limit the fonts you can use now on the Mac, too?

I updated Pages on my iPhone and see you still can't do fine-tuning with line spacing. It still only goes in quarters (single-space, 1.25 space, 1.5 space, etc.). This is a deal breaker for me and the main reason I don't have an iPad. I adjust the spacing all the time on documents to get them to fit well and look good on the page. Is this at least still possible in the new Pages for Mac, or is this a feature they eliminated?

But I downloaded the new Pages to check it out, as the interface looked quite nice. It was fine for a while, and then I went to change the language settings, as I need to use English (British) and English (US) within the same document.

Is it just me, or have they stripped out most of the language controls? I need to set language by paragraph sometimes, but the only option appears to be a generic spelling setting.

If true, this will be a deal-breaking for me. I have multi-language documents all the time. It's very annoying in Word to deal with this, and something Pages did exceptionally well with overall. I guess I will have to stay with the '09 version until/if they get their act together and add back this feature.

Hopefully now that there exists some semblance of parity between the iOS, iCloud, and Mac versions, the feature set of all three will begin to expand.

Not just pages, but keynote too . I understand that Apple might be trying to re-architect all of iWork, but some kind of communication as to their intent might be nice. As it is, I have to decide whether to keep using the old version of Keynote or switch back to powerpoint.

Yes, we can hope, but I agree that they need to communicate with people: are they going to add features back and, if so, when? Hopefully people will take the article's suggestion and submit feedback/complaints to Apple about missing features.

[*]After the upgrade, you have both version of iWorks on your computer so you can always use the old version until you are happy with the new version.

iWork '09 is NOT deleted when you update - in other words, you get to keep both versions (old and new). So what's the problem exactly?

So we should expect they will support iWork '09 forever? Telling people there's nothing wrong because they can (at least for now) run an old version of an app is short-sighted at best. Obviously they knew after the FCP debacle that people would rightfully be upset at them removing features, so I suppose it's a small consolation they didn't remove the old one.

They haven't just lost a 'few' features though, there are dozens. They've not only massively regressed the features of the desktop applications to a point they're a shadow of their former version , but they have done so in such a massively user-hostile way.

i.e. if you opened a document that you'd been working on in the previous version of Pages, the new version will strip out elements of your document which are no longer supported, fundamentally screwing up the formatting and structure that was fine before, and before you have a chance to revert or save a copy it will auto-save the file over your original rendering it broken and unable to open in your previous application.

This is inexcusable and had better be rectified quickly. Versions is one of the best features of the app. Why would they have it so you can't at least go back to using the file with the previous version?

So, I rather pay for a real upgrade than a crap DOWNgrade for free

Who knows, maybe they've decided to go the route of many iOS developers and start offering in-app purchases. Want to be able to put in two columns in your document? 99¢ IAP...

 

[ihuman:D]

Well Microsoft don't even have a mobile version of their office suite out yet. The office on their Surface devices are still desktop versions.

They've been working on a mobile version with touch capable features for a while, and it's expected to be available for Windows 8.1 next year. I'm sure they already have an iOS version of it available, but they've been holding it back to give Windows a chance to gain traction.

Yes they do, I have it pre-installed on my Lumia 800. And they nearly always release apps for iOS and Android before Windows Phone.

 

[Heb1228]

When I saw the sliders were gone for line spacing, before paragraph and after paragraph spacing, I closed it up and went back to Pages & Keynote '09. I use Keynote and Pages regularly, and those controls are such a time saver. I know you have the numeric controls in the new version, but dragging a slider and seeing the result in real time was perfect. Blew away MS Word where you had to open up paragraph settings and choose, then click OK to see your result, then repeat to refine your result.

Keynote and Pages from iWork '09 were pretty mature products, so I'm staying there. It's sad to see them being taken in such a different direction.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Excellent question - it seems like too much hoopla for nothing.

It's unclear. I haven't downloaded the new versions yet (too busy to mess with it at the moment), but in picking through the infamous 26-page thread on the Apple Support boards, it seems that some of the supposedly deleted features are actually still there, just implemented differently. Also some of them make me want to laugh, e.g., the one about documents created in the new version of Pages being not openable in the previous version. Well, that was also true about '09 to '06, and I don't remember any complaints about it then.

 

[dannyyankou]

This is exactly why they take feedback. If enough people want a feature, they'll add it. Take collaboration in iWork for iCloud for example. iWork for iCloud was introduced in June, and people requested that apple should add collaboration. Apple listened, and they added it a few months later.

 

[panamajack]

Meanwhile ...

... I'm just learning that "iWork Power Users" - at least for Pages/Numbers even exist! I can personally think of dozens of dedicated Mac-users who qualify as "Power Office Users", but I can barely think of a handful of folk (I'm typically working on a University campus) who even use Pages/Numbers as their primary word processor/spreadsheet app. Keynote is another story and is clearly the most popular iWork app.

That said, some of the removed features, rather than the apps ability to create features through scripting, seem inane: removing Endnotes? Basic export features?

 

[darkgoob]

I'd rather pay for an upgrade and not have it suck. I bet they did this so that Microsoft would keep making Office for OS X. If they made Pages too good, I could easily see M$ going, "Nah, no Office for Mac!"

 

[IJ Reilly]

How's this for starters:

Turns out many of these features are still there, but are implemented differently. So I am not trusting these lists just yet.

 

[Kenyanrunning]

I'd rather pay $100 for an improved Keynote 09 than use free Keynote '13

I use Keynote professionally every day as much of what I do is public presentations. There are not that many options out there for this part of my job, Keynote and PowerPoint being the two major ones. In my case, I preferred Keynote, as do many presenters who make their living teaching about presentations.

Whether or not one is upset about the '13 release of Keynote on the Mac (and Pages, Numbers) will probably depend on how much one has invested in using the software. If your job depends on using the software and you were hoping for improvements after four years, one can be quite upset with this release, especially when using it makes years worth of files unusable.

Yes, downloading the new release does not replace Keynote '09, so one has the option to just keep using the old version. It appears, however, that this version will no longer be supported or updated. Plus, opening a complex '09 file is likely going to result in "random" formatting changes, in part because of missing transitions etc. Exporting the new file back to '09 does not fix the problems. You better have an up-to-date backup or start from scratch.

These things will not bug more casual users. But if your job is on the line... The new "iWork" looks more like "iHobby;" perfectly fine for most; problematic for many.

Should you care? It might depend on whether or not you rely on Apple software for your job. I didn't care when I read about problems with new releases of advanced video editing software, because all I need is iPhoto and iMovie. Now I feel I should have paid more attention to their concerns.

If the iCloud version sets the bar for the Mac version of the software to insure compatibility, the latter will not be very advanced. As one writer put it: "Apple's iWork for Mac will only be as smart as his two dumb little brothers" (https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/ba2c9173f666).