Sony suffers a minor setback/MS gains an arguably might-be-large-but-maybe-not win

[0098386]

And it looks like complete ass while doing those things. They would have been better off focussing on a few effects and making those look good rather than doing too many effects and making them all look extremely bad. Plus the NPC's dont even cast shadows.

And ya the Wii can do self shadowing, any GPU that can render cast shadows should be able to do it. My 7600GT can do it. The downside is that there will never be a playable game with self shadowing on the Wii since that would pretty much require a single character with a single light source in an empty room to get more than 2fps, or maybe they could just remove all textures to achieve self shadows.

I'm pretty much certain Strikers has dynamic shadows and there's certainly more than 1 character and textures...
The problem with such a system is that by unifying lighting and shadowing you can potentially end up with Doom 3-like lighting and is best used for games where lighting is important for atmosphere purposes.

I guess you didn't read that link I sent you and you don't seem to like being proved wrong so I'll give up the Wii isn't as powerful as either the PS3 or 360 but you can't seem to grasp the Wii can emulate effects (360/Ps3 has to do this to achieve DirectX 10 effects) without much processor loss (as seen with S3 texture games that were even possible on the Wii and the various shaders the Wii can run). But the other 2 aren't powerhouses either compared to what a cheap PC was producing last year.
You can go on not liking the Wii and dismissing facts as "whatever it looks like ass" if you like.

half way through i got bored reading this thread but you are either a xbox fanboy...

This is funny

 

[stainlessliquid]

uhm self shadowing is where the character casts a shadow on itself, not just casts a shadow on the ground. Mass Effect has a lot of it, MGS4 has a lot of it. Like this http://files.playstatic.com/ps3/metal-gear-solid-4/metal-gear-1.jpg

Most games only use cast shadows on static objects like the floor and wall, casting shadows on a dynamic object is entirely different. The most self shadowing you will ever see on Wii will probably be vehicles casting shadows on themselves since they are mostly static and flat. Play Mass Effect on PC and watch how hard your framerate takes a hit when you enable them.

The article you linked to only talks about the features of the Wii GPU. Which I have said repeatedly dont mean anything. The geforce 5200fx which is probably one of the worst gaming cards ever made is capable of all the same effects that the 5900ultra can do, it does not mean that it can run all those same things simultaneously and maintain a playable framerate.

 

[JackAxe]

Even the PS2 supported self-shadowing and you're trying to tell us a fairly modern console with components from the same era as a 360, can't handle it more than on a simple level? Errr, Rogue Squardon 2 did the vehicle self-shadowing back in 2001. Big WHOOP! That was 7 years ago. Something tells me the Wii can do way more than 2 fps in the scenario you setup. That something is called reality, but you were probably being sarcastic.

At least focus on an effect that's somewhat current, like sub-surface scattering. Or become a REAL graphic WHORE and build a BEASTLY SLI setup to brag about. Consoles just don't cut it.

Why do you fear the Wii?

If they had started out on the PC for Mass Effect, not only would the game look better, it would run better on lower end systems. All the reviews I've read state it does look better on the PC and that they fixed many limitations that were inherent with the console version.

On the blurb of fixing, I'm glad they did something about the really F*D up menu system I've been reading about. Other console to PC games usually stick with their PlaySkool control scheme.

5200fx, the worst? You haven't been around that long have you...

You're overly exaggerating the 5200's performance and just like your stance on the Wii, you're not willing to give it any credit. For its time and its budget price, it wasn't a bad performer. It ran Dawn just fine.

I'm going to throw out a cheese-ball analogy -- nothing new. Anyways, it's related to all of these rambles.

Let's say the PS3/360 is a 32oz glass cup and the Wii is a 8oz glass cup. OK both cups can hold the same liquids. Of course the bigger cup can hold more, so it's obviously better. Now let's say EDTV is a small child and HDTV is a fat thirsty bastard.. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure, the child on occasion might want more, but not 32oz more and the Wii's pretty good at filling up its cup as soon as it's empty.

Blah.

<]=)

 

[0098386]

I had a little play on Strikers and it does seem to have self shadowing models, as I said before they have 10 players and a fully 3D audience. Do I know what it is the cheek. I make games for a living

 

[stainlessliquid]

Why do you fear the Wii?

uh right. Why do you fear the 360? Arent you the one who started out with fanboy comments like its "360-letist snobbery" because dead rising looks like crap on the Wii, and then making ridiclous statements like the Wii games could look like 360 games if theyre in SD? The only "proof" you have been able to provide that the Wii is capable of 360-like graphics in SD is Mario Galaxy, which isnt even close. I dont care about the 360 or the Wii, but Im defending the 360 so clearly Im afraid of the Wii?

You're overly exaggerating the 5200's performance and just like your stance on the Wii, you're not willing to give it any credit. For its time and its budget price, it wasn't a bad performer. It ran Dawn just fine.

I cant tell if youre being serious. The 5200 was the biggest laughing stock in the history of video cards (well, maybe the voodoo 5 was bigger). It was barely more useful for gaming than integrated graphics. The FX series as a whole was terrible compared to ATI's fantastic 9000 series (which costed less too), the 5200 was just adding insult to injury. Make a thread on a PC forum asking what the worst video card ever was and I would bet money that most people will say the 5200fx with some other crappy FX cards thrown in. But if you thought that piece of garbage was a good card then its not surprising you think the Wii is good at graphics.

Let's say the PS3/360 is a 32oz glass cup and the Wii is a 8oz glass cup. OK both cups can hold the same liquids. Of course the bigger cup can hold more, so it's obviously better. Now let's say EDTV is a small child and HDTV is a fat thirsty bastard.. Do you see where I'm going with this? Sure, the child on occasion might want more, but not 32oz more and the Wii's pretty good at filling up its cup as soon as it's empty.

I cant figure out how that is relevant

I had a little play on Strikers and it does seem to have self shadowing models, as I said before they have 10 players and a fully 3D audience. Do I know what it is the cheek. I make games for a living

Where? http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/210/reviews/935184_20070730_screen014.jpg

 

[JackAxe]

uh right. Why do you fear the 360? Arent you the one who started out with fanboy comments like its "360-letist snobbery" because dead rising looks like crap on the Wii, and then making ridiclous statements like the Wii games could look like 360 games if theyre in SD? The only "proof" you have been able to provide that the Wii is capable of 360-like graphics in SD is Mario Galaxy, which isnt even close. I dont care about the 360 or the Wii, but Im defending the 360 so clearly Im afraid of the Wii?

HURRAY! Once again, you've taken what I stated out of context and WARPED it to your own selfish post.

You're a 360 poser!

Ahh, Mario Galaxy. It's visually one of the best looking games on any system right now. That's not just my opinion. Mabye it's technically not a Mass Effect, but it's still a visual feast of fun.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SARCASM?

Let's look at what I wrote;

You people and your 360-letist snobbery.

NOTICE SOMETHING?

HERE's what I stated about the Wii producing 360 visuals;

A true Wii port would be fairly close to the 360 DR at SD.

THIS IS REFERRING TO DEAD RISING BTW!!! You pulled this out of context and generalized it. THANKS!!

I then went on to to say this;

When it comes down to it, the 360 visually is not a huge leap over the Wii.

Unless you're BLINDED by the EYE-CANDY, or HD, you'll know what I'm referring to here. And notice that I'm clearly stating the 360 is better, which I have many times over. But yet you've gone back to my first statement and misconstrued it.

I'll stand by my comment, because Dead Rising is NOT the 360's best showpiece, it's an early title.

Did I say dead rising looks like crap on the Wii? NO! Here's what I said when using crap;

I see the same CRAP all around, regardless of it being the latest PC game on my 30", or a Wii game.

My comments about DR Wii were regarding it using the CUBE engine and not being a true Wii game.

STOP MISCONSTRUING MY POSTS!



Let's LOOK AT YOUR post;

The wii is literally an overclocked gamecube, it has the same hardware but a slightly higher clock rate.

Literally? Same hardware? I don't even need to misconstrue it to see that it's silly.


And if you're a PC gamer, you should take notice of MS's attention to the 360, because it has lead to a noticeable drop in gaming quality. So if I fear anything, it's the dumbing down of the types of games I've liked in general. At least the PS3 supports a mouse, but then again, it's optional.

I cant tell if youre being serious. The 5200 was the biggest laughing stock in the history of video cards (well, maybe the voodoo 5 was bigger). It was barely more useful for gaming than integrated graphics. The FX series as a whole was terrible compared to ATI's fantastic 9000 series (which costed less too), the 5200 was just adding insult to injury. Make a thread on a PC forum asking what the worst video card ever was and I would bet money that most people will say the 5200fx with some other crappy FX cards thrown in. But if you thought that piece of garbage was a good card then its not surprising you think the Wii is good at graphics.

Hey, it was a budget card. It could handle Doom 3 at 30fps at 800 x 600, which someone buying this card was probably running as their default rez. Think of the time period it was released. I made fun of my friends that bought one, but it was a HUGE upgrade over some of the 7000s and GF2 MXs it replaced -- which made the 5200fx look like the crown jewel of gaming.

I had a 9500pro at the time(Ran it like a 9700pro), but I wouldn't touch a 9500, or 9600.

Voodoo 5. You're new to gaming?

I'm being realistic about the Wii's visuals, you're not. Hey, were you one of those PS2 fanboys that calmed it was better than any PC when it came to gaming visuals.

I cant figure out how that is relevant

I figured it would be a bit above your cognitive skills.

Where?

This was a comment about the Cube from julian, that guy that actually knows hardware:
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=1906

Planet GameCube: How flexible and useful is Gekko in assisting Flipper with custom lighting and geometry? Are you using this feature? Does it compare to the vertex and pixel shaders on the Xbox's graphics chip?

Julian Eggebrecht: Maybe without going into too much detail, we don’t think there is anything visually you could do on X-Box (or PS2) which can’t be done on GameCube. I have read theories on the net about Flipper not being able to do cube-mapped environment maps, fur shading, self-shadowing etc... That’s all plain wrong. Rogue does extensive self-shadowing and both cube-maps and fur shading are not anymore complicated to implement on GameCube than on X-Box. You might be doing it differently, but the results are the same. When I said that X-Box and GameCube are on par power-wise I really meant it.

Hmmmmm, he's talking about a Cube, that thing the Wii replaced. Hmmmmmmmm, maybe Nintendo took a huge step back with the Wii, just so peeps like you could feel superior about your choice of console.

<]=)

 

[CalmEnvy]

Well, S-E just announced a **** load of games for Sony at there DKΣ3713 party... mostly PSP but a FFXIII PS3 demo will be on the Blu-ray of Advent Children Complete and FFvXIII is PS3 exclusive.

Also, a huge Final Fantasy VII announcement has yet to be made. This is according to website and I believe Nomura stated that in an interview. Could just be a rumor but I'll wait till the end of DKΣ3713.

 

[stainlessliquid]

STOP MISCONSTRUING MY POSTS!

If you want me to stop misconstruing your posts then for the love of god start making more sense. Calm down. Take a breath. Dont ramble. Im guessing english isnt your native language because your posts are usually difficult to comprehend, especially your latest one... jeez

like this:

Unless you're BLINDED by the EYE-CANDY, or HD, you'll know what I'm referring to here.

huh? no I absolutely dont know what youre referring to. What are graphics if they arent eye candy? What the hell are you talking about??? I dont know how to respond to that or most of your weird points.

And "360 Poser"? huh?

 

[JackAxe]

I do say some weird things, but I'm also pretty clear with many of my points.

If you want jeez, I don't grab parts of your posts, then string them together to into something that's skewed just enough that it changes the entire meaning. Like my crap comment, that was not me writing something that was hard to comprehend, that was you not recalling in what context I had used it.

Yes, I ramble, so I can understand if you get lost in some of my long posts, but my earlier posts weren't as long winded and it's them that you're not remembering correctly.

Unless you're BLINDED by the EYE-CANDY, or HD, you'll know what I'm referring to here.

Here, I'll translate that from weird into english.

When I refer to eye-candy, I'm referring to any Hollywood type effect that distract from imperfections in the visuals. Like the overly used bloom effect.

I'm not referring to graphics as a whole, because even the latest games still share the same limitations as previous generations. I still see lots of facets and heavy use of sprites to create vegetation/foliage.


When I mention HD, I'm referring to the hordes of younger guys that have only gamed on TV consoles, so this whole HD-Digital thing is something new.


I should have written it like this;
"Unless you're still amazed by higher resolution graphics and lots of Hollywood-type-effects, you should be able to see that visually games still look fundamentally the same.


English is my first language, but I'm an artist, so that's my excuse. My wife knows english up and down and she doesn't always understand me, but when I speak with other artists or tech-geeks whom are just as nerdy as I, they never have problem comprehending my gibberish. I guess I'm used to communicating with other nerds that have been gaming since the seventies.

<]=)

 

[2nyRiggz]

You guys are still running on with this graphic thing....okay then well continue don't let me stop yall.

Did SE announce Parasite Eve: Third Birthday, KH: Birth by Sleep and some other FF games I care nothing for. Well thats like final fantasy for years to come for PSP/3 owners so enjoy it and shut up

I am interested in Birth by sleep though so I hope they mention something about it.



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