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Sox Sweep Yanks
- Thread starter keysersoze
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MacNut
macrumors Core
I will give you that argument, but the Red Sox are not that far behind the Yankees in their spending thanks to the new owners. I do believe that Schilling was a big purchase just to try to stop the Yankees and trying to deal for Arod is just like the Yankees ways. While years ago I would say it was a yankee problem now it is becoming more of a wide spread issue and the Red Sox are now just as guilty.
jxyama
macrumors 68040
MacNut said:
right, but yanks are still ahead by $60 million. 50% more than the sox. and sox doesn't just go out and pull every single free agent to their team, or pull "impossible" trades by stacking so much cash that the other team can't refuse. (notice that they haven't had much minor leaguers to trade - their farm system is a big mess because they've pursued win now, who cares about the rest attitude for so long now.)
brown, vasquez, sheffield, a-rod, giambi, lofton, etc., etc.
yanks are gluttons. "oh, aaron boone hurt his knee? ok, let us just dump another $100 million so we can convince the best SS into playing 3B." 🙄
MacNut
macrumors Core
The problem isn't that the Yankees paid $100 Mil for Arod, its that the Rangers were paying him $250 mil. That is when the commissioner should step in and put a stop the the union and the overspending. But Bud wont do that because he can't control the Union and he gives what ever the owners want.
Koodauw
macrumors 68040
jxyama said:
And neither did Jeter. Its not Jeters decision to choose where he plays. And ANYBODY who is anybody knows what DJ means to the NY Yankees, on and off the feild. Moving him from SS, would of been the wrong decision.
And we know your just mad about Arod because the bosox didnt get him.
jxyama
macrumors 68040
Koodauw said:
not particularly, i'm kind of glad to not have him. i despise his character. he's a good player but so was giambi and he nothing but a bench warmer now. wait until a-rod's huge contract becomes a handcuff to yanks in a few years.
well, i guess if that happens, they will just up the budget to $300 million. yeah, that'd be really fun to win then. 🙄
generally, i hate yanks preoccupation with just winning. what happened to competing, as opposed to just winning? is it just as fun for you to win fantasy baseball league if you had 7 of the first 10 picks? is it that fun to win when you are in such a better position to begin with?
QCassidy352
macrumors G5
Koodauw said:
Give me a break. The decision was made to protect jeter's ego and for no other reason and everyone knows it. Had jeter done the right thing and gone to management saying, "he's the better shortstop, move me to 3rd," they would have done it in a heartbeat. And ANYBODY who actually knows baseball knows that Jeter is possibly the most overrated player in baseball history.
And no, I'm glad not to have a-rod because we would have lost manny, who had a much better season for less money. And we would have lost nomar for ordonez who spent the whole year on the DL. Cabrera may not be much but he's better than a hurt outfielder.
MacNut
macrumors Core
They must of forgoten the great catch Jeter made in that July 1st game against the Red Sox, he risked season ending injurys to catch that ball in the seats. Ive never seen Nomar make a catch like that. But I guess Jeter caught that ball by accident because as you say he is overrated. He is just maybe the greatest post season player in the history of baseball. 🙄
jxyama
macrumors 68040
MacNut said:
one play doesn't make someone not overrated.
as for the number of rings he's won, that's a team achievement.
koodauw: i love it when someone challenges me to look at jeter's oct. numbers without actually doing it him/herself.
here it is, straight from baseball-references.com, up to 2003, jeter's 99 postseason game averages compared to his regular season:
regular season: avg .317, obp .389, slg .462
207 hits, 32 doubles and 17 HRs averaged in 162 games
post season: avg .314, obp .385, slg .441
123 hits, 16 doubles and 13 HRs in 99 games
(which roughly translates to ~190 hits, 25 doubles
and 20 HRs averaged in 162 games)
what were you saying about his oct. stats? if anything is a definition of "overrated" it's someone who everyone thinks is better in oct. but isn't at all. 🙄
QCassidy352
macrumors G5
Ok, first, yes the sox are done. Even if they came back, which they won't, they can't win the world series without shilling. What a horrible ending.
Re: Jeter.
One catch he made proves not a single thing and if you really think otherwise... well, I won't finish that thought because it would get me banned for violating a certain forum rule. 🙂 Other shortstops would have been there soon enough that they wouldn't have HAD to dive in to the stands. He doesn't have very good range and even you can't dispute that unless you just want to lie outright.
You think nomar, a-rod, or tejada wouldn't have won those world series rings if they were on the yankees in jeter's place? Come on. 🙄
Yes, he's a better player in the postseason than the regular season. But he's still the most horribly overrated player I've ever seen. Jeter basically gets credit for anything and everything that the Yankees do right. If he drives in a run, his is the name you hear. If he scores a run, you hear about him. If he makes a good defensive play, the announcers go on and on about it. If he does nothing at all, they just talk about how he's a "winner" and a "leader." if he were the best player who ever lived he'd still be overrated because he gets all the press, all the time. And he's very far from the best player ever, or even the best player on his team on his side of the infield.
See, you don't hear anyone calling Randy Johnson or Barry Bonds a "winner," or other unprovable crap because the numbers bear out that they are simply unreal. It's when people want to elevate a guy but don't actually have the stats to back up their BS that they trot out the meaningless "winner," "leader," and "intangible" labels.
People love to *talk* about how great jeter is... but when it comes time to give the MVP, his name is nowhere on the list. That's because when you come right down to it, you simply can't make an argument for him as a great player. The numbers aren't there, and when it's actually time to give out the hardware, everyone cuts the crap and gives the awards to the best players, not the media darlings.
Edit: oh, he's not a better player in the postseason than the regular season. See, there's so much media BS that they even had me fooled. 🙂 Thanks so much for those stats. Great to see. 🙂
Re: Jeter.
One catch he made proves not a single thing and if you really think otherwise... well, I won't finish that thought because it would get me banned for violating a certain forum rule. 🙂 Other shortstops would have been there soon enough that they wouldn't have HAD to dive in to the stands. He doesn't have very good range and even you can't dispute that unless you just want to lie outright.
You think nomar, a-rod, or tejada wouldn't have won those world series rings if they were on the yankees in jeter's place? Come on. 🙄
Yes, he's a better player in the postseason than the regular season. But he's still the most horribly overrated player I've ever seen. Jeter basically gets credit for anything and everything that the Yankees do right. If he drives in a run, his is the name you hear. If he scores a run, you hear about him. If he makes a good defensive play, the announcers go on and on about it. If he does nothing at all, they just talk about how he's a "winner" and a "leader." if he were the best player who ever lived he'd still be overrated because he gets all the press, all the time. And he's very far from the best player ever, or even the best player on his team on his side of the infield.
See, you don't hear anyone calling Randy Johnson or Barry Bonds a "winner," or other unprovable crap because the numbers bear out that they are simply unreal. It's when people want to elevate a guy but don't actually have the stats to back up their BS that they trot out the meaningless "winner," "leader," and "intangible" labels.
People love to *talk* about how great jeter is... but when it comes time to give the MVP, his name is nowhere on the list. That's because when you come right down to it, you simply can't make an argument for him as a great player. The numbers aren't there, and when it's actually time to give out the hardware, everyone cuts the crap and gives the awards to the best players, not the media darlings.
Edit: oh, he's not a better player in the postseason than the regular season. See, there's so much media BS that they even had me fooled. 🙂 Thanks so much for those stats. Great to see. 🙂
jxyama
macrumors 68040
by the way, the same kind of postseason comparison can be made for bernie wiliams and jorge posada and you'll realize that they are pretty much the same player they are in the regular season. (in fact, williams is slightly worse and posada, even more so, in the playoffs.)
the true reason yankees have been a dynasty and one yankee who's never been overrated: mariano rivera.
it's not jeter's team, it's mo's team. you could have replaced jeter with pretty much any decent SS and yanks would have still won. the same cannot be said for rivera.
jeter *is* overrated. mo isn't. give credit where the credit is due if you claim to be a true yankees fan instead of listening to media hype about pretty boy jeter.
the true reason yankees have been a dynasty and one yankee who's never been overrated: mariano rivera.
it's not jeter's team, it's mo's team. you could have replaced jeter with pretty much any decent SS and yanks would have still won. the same cannot be said for rivera.
jeter *is* overrated. mo isn't. give credit where the credit is due if you claim to be a true yankees fan instead of listening to media hype about pretty boy jeter.
dizastor
macrumors 6502a
I'm guessing the Sox won't pull this series out of their a$$, but my only hope is that they win a series before I die. I was thinking about this yesterday... my uncle was a big red sox fan, and even though he lived 77 years, never got to see them win the world series... he also missed the Patriots two Super Bowl Championships... I just want to see the Sox win one so I can actually believe "the Yankees Suck" when I say it during the offseason.
It's truly depressing being a lifelong Red Sox fan.
It's truly depressing being a lifelong Red Sox fan.
wdlove
macrumors P6
The Red Sox made the announcement yesterday about Schilling's heel. My first thought was, it's an indication of the Red Sox's loosing. Today they announced that Schilling will have surgery, so will not play anymore of the playoffs. Red Sox fans are used to this, the old refrain "There is always next year."
jxyama
macrumors 68040
man, have some faith, if you are a sox fan...
schilling not pitching won't be an issue for the immediate future. sox must sweep at home and to do that, we need to hit, hit and hit some more. it would have been nice to steal a game in the bronx but the series isn't over yet by any means... (well it is over if sox doesn't start hitting!)
pedro pitched well enough last night to win. gotta get more than a run to win against the yanks...
schilling not pitching won't be an issue for the immediate future. sox must sweep at home and to do that, we need to hit, hit and hit some more. it would have been nice to steal a game in the bronx but the series isn't over yet by any means... (well it is over if sox doesn't start hitting!)
pedro pitched well enough last night to win. gotta get more than a run to win against the yanks...
yoda13
macrumors 65816
jxyama said:
A different take on this. The fact that his stats are so close to his normal season stats suggests that he isn't that overrated at all. The pitching is ten times better in the postseason than it is in the regular season. You are facing nothing but another team's best. You have to step it up just to put up the numbers you put up in the regular season. Besides stats are misleading. Its when he gets the hits and makes the catches. Besides the list is long and distinguished of great players who were fabulous in the regular season and couldn't get it done in the postseason. But I am not going to disagree with all the sentiments made about the Yankees here. W/O Mo the Yankees would not have won any of the World Series that they have won the last several years. That is no secret. It is also a team sport, I agree with that. Jeter is the team leader so I don't know that you can say they would have won with any adequate shortstop either. Jeter brings other things to the table besides what he does on the field. But being a team leader, he SHOULD want the best player at each position playing and that means he should have moved to third...he could have volunteered. AROD is the better short stop, but for those that say Jeter isn't that great, I must disagree with you. But, I am a Yankee fan, so I am sure that you will dismiss what I say 😀
jxyama said:
An excellent attempt at being rational, but these figures, which are not bad at all considering post-season pitichers, are only offense. He makes great plays on defense and has intangible qualities, i.e. character that lead to an improved team chemistry. He's a resilient, proud, hard-working and consistent competitor who sets the tone for the whole team. By affecting the group so positively, you can't discredit him by saying "winning championships is thanks to the group, not him." He's the captain, and captains guide ships. Of course ships can't move without a crew, but they need a wise and able guide.
By the way could you check his stats for hitting with runners on base? Are they good?
Closing my rant, suffice it to say, "Jeter is the most overrated..." is simply the most ridiculous baseball statement I've ever heard.