Space Black owners thread.

[Apollonian]

Between issues like this which may or may not be due to the process vs. a particular unit not being properly applied, and the issue of the fact that I think the DLC is no less scratch intolerant than the SS (though the SS will show lots of little scratches they both can sustain damage somewhat easily) I just don't see this as an $1,100 product.

Nice: yes.
Premium: yes.
$1,100 value: no.

While I think the value is there I am somewhat disappointed in its scratch resistance. I take care when handling the watch but twice now I have removed the link band and accidentally hit the band against the watch body, without much force mind you, causing two scratches. While the scratches don't seem to go through the entire DLC layer I can still see them and it frustrates me. I'd expect to be able to remove the link or have the link band touch the watch without causing a scratch for $1099.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

A quick update about my call with Apple this morning about my case of the "Peeling DLC Coating":

I was put in contact with a senior product specialist who asked me to send pictures. I did and he asked for more pictures with varying angles.

I was not entirely happy with the conversation. He did say, it will be a good chance that they will replace the link band but he needs to refer this case to the engineering department hence there is also a chance that the engineering department will tell me that since it is on isolated parts of the band, it could be damaged caused by the user hence will not be covered by warranty. He said that should it be a manufacturing defect, the entire band should have been damaged but it seems like a very specific area on the watch.

Which of course I argued if they were accusing me of making some crap up and I said I am a customer who has experienced something that should NOT have happened normally and they are using "possibilities" as a way to avoid responsibility which I, being a loyal Apple user, will not be pleased with.

 

[BarredOwl]

I feel punked (yet again) by Apple over this model. The overall quality is really lacking. My Rado only cost a few hundred more, but is a much more sophisticated piece of jewelry. The SBSS model seems to be the definition of an Apple 1st generation product; so disappointing.

 

[BarredOwl]

A quick update about my call with Apple this morning about my case of the "Peeling DLC Coating":

I was put in contact with a senior product specialist who asked me to send pictures. I did and he asked for more pictures with varying angles.

I was not entirely happy with the conversation. He did say, it will be a good chance that they will replace the link band but he needs to refer this case to the engineering department hence there is also a chance that the engineering department will tell me that since it is on isolated parts of the band, it could be damaged caused by the user hence will not be covered by warranty. He said that should it be a manufacturing defect, the entire band should have been damaged but it seems like a very specific area on the watch.

Which of course I argued if they were accusing me of making some crap up and I said I am a customer who has experienced something that should NOT have happened normally and they are using "possibilities" as a way to avoid responsibility which I, being a loyal Apple user, will not be pleased with.

I can't fathom why Apple seems to default to blaming the customer, but they sure do. Why do I have to debate with them over hardware defects? Why do we have to prove to them that their product has an issue? It all leaves a terrible taste in my mouth for my historically beloved Apple.

 

[iConnected]

... twice now I have removed the link band and accidentally hit the band against the watch body, without much force mind you, causing two scratches. ... I'd expect to be able to remove the link or have the link band touch the watch without causing a scratch for $1099.

I'm not sure that even Apple can change the laws of physics

 

[iConnected]

Glass. I guess I hit it pretty hard though!

Thanks - whilst very unfortunate for you, that seems reasonable. I would have been more concerned if you'd said wood.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I can't fathom why Apple seems to default to blaming the customer, but they sure do. Why do I have to debate with them over hardware defects? Why do we have to prove to them that their product has an issue? It all leaves a terrible taste in my mouth for my historically beloved Apple.

Very sad day indeed. Anyways, I'll let you all know what the engineering department comes up with.

 

[fischersd]

Very sad day indeed. Anyways, I'll let you all know what the engineering department comes up with.

If they do anything but the right thing (which is to replace your band), then send an e-mail to Tim Cook explaining what has transpired thus far. That'll get the executive escalations team looking into your case.
You shouldn't need to do that. The customer service organization typically has a good amount of common sense. I'd hate to see them trying to cheap out now! They're going to need to up their game if they want to be a luxury watch maker!

 

[d8b17ee5]

After reading mr.anthonyramos' post about the peeling DLC coating, I inspected the underside of my SBSS link bracelet. I'm disappointed to have noticed the same phenomenon with mine. I've been wearing it for two weeks; have not banged it up against anything. The only things the underside of the band has been exposed to has been skin, non-workout daily perspiration, and one quick rinse-off with water.

I took pictures and a video this afternoon and contacted Apple. I need to bring it into a retail store for a physical inspection and to have the defect documented by an employee. At least I now have the issue verbally documented and on file with Apple.

With the (glacial) pace this particular model has rolled out, and given that Apple is not yet up-to-speed with having pre-orders delivered, I'm not realistically expecting to have a replacement band in my possession until July, at the earliest. But, fortunately, I have Apple Care Plus with the watch, so I won't have to surrender the defective band until I have a replacement in my possession. But I do expect to get a replacement band. This -- however minor in appearance -- should not be happening with a $500 band. And it makes me apprehensive about what I might notice after two more weeks, two months, and then several months down the road with daily use.

Finally, I have to say that I'm otherwise very, very pleased with this watch. Absolutely no buyer's remorse and no regrets about being an early adopter on this. This particular watch is a real joy and a pleasure to have.

 

[fischersd]

As I said on the thread for the peeling issue - if one of you shares your case number with the other, the corollary should take place (so you're both equally exposed from a privacy standpoint) - as well as being able to establish that common incidence with Apple CS as well as the executive escalation team (if it comes to that).

As someone still waiting for their watch (July) *sob* - I'm starting to get cold feet about the prospects of this watch, if this becomes a common misgiving of Apple's manufacturing process.

It's pretty apparent that this is being caused by impurities on or in the 316L stainless which interfered with the PVD process in bonding the DLC. (if it's not, then it's a much more serious problem). I really can't see Apple not using a premiere company for doing this work though; one that would be doing the same work for luxury watch makers.

 

[Branskins]

I've had mine over two weeks and wear it almost all day. I've worked out in it, gone on a long bike ride with it, and I even wear it pretty snug and mine is *not* rubbing off on the inside.

The fact that two posters have this happening in the upper links (where skin contact is the most minimal) indicates there is something defective with either that particular link or the DLC process on that link.

There are definitely a lot of space black owners that are not seeing this issue, so I do not think it is normal.

That is unless your skin is made of dragon scales...then I'm not sure there is any hope for you!

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I've had mine over two weeks and wear it almost all day. I've worked out in it, gone on a long bike ride with it, and I even wear it pretty snug and mine is *not* rubbing off on the inside.

The fact that two posters have this happening in the upper links (where skin contact is the most minimal) indicates there is something defective with either that particular link or the DLC process on that link.

There are definitely a lot of space black owners that are not seeing this issue, so I do not think it is normal.

That is unless your skin is made of dragon scales...then I'm not sure there is any hope for you!

Well I am honestly glad to hear that this isn't happening to you but I can't see how your claim that there are definitely a lot of Space Black owners who are not seeing this issue as fact.

There are probably plenty of Space Black owners who haven't noticed and all the more don't scour these forums like we do.

 

[iConnected]

There are always manufacturing defects. You just hope they're very rare. ... We don't yet know how many of these have been shipped, but it's save to say it's 10's of thousands at least. And this is the only one we've heard of. Remember - the membership here represents a very small percentage of Watch customers. If there were more cases, there would be discussions about this already.

I've had mine over two weeks and wear it almost all day. I've worked out in it, gone on a long bike ride with it, and I even wear it pretty snug and mine is *not* rubbing off on the inside. The fact that two posters have this happening in the upper links (where skin contact is the most minimal) indicates there is something defective with either that particular link or the DLC process on that link. There are definitely a lot of space black owners that are not seeing this issue, so I do not think it is normal ...

I'm greatly reassured to hear that some are definitely not seeing this problem, but I still fear that this may prove to be a more common issue than we'd like to hope. Applying some of the previously posted logic differently:

- Members here represent a small percentage of Watch customers.
- Of Watch purchasers here, relatively few bought the Space Black Stainless Steel.
- Of those, not many have even received their watches yet, let alone had them for very long.
- Those who do have them probably haven't been routinely inspecting the inside of their straps.

On that basis, two people (with apparent issues with DLC coatings) out of a very small sample could easily extrapolate into many more cases - especially over a longer ownership period. It has also been mentioned that this issue has been seen on a couple of Space Black watches in Apple Store display cases.

Here's hoping that they're not the tip of an iceberg and that Apple gets on top of any (yet to be established) QC issue promptly. Preferably before they manufacture mine - no offence

 

[fischersd]

I'm greatly reassured to hear that some are definitely not seeing this problem, but ...Preferably before they manufacture mine - no offence

Agreed on hoping this isn't more wide-spread, but we've seen a LOT of MR members move through the SB SS shipping thread. I think people are going to be surprised at just how popular the SB SS is compared to the other SKU's.

 

[Sikh]

GUYS, part of being an early adopter means your willing to put up with minor issues like these. We all know apple, they will take care of us no matter what. Most companies would've washed their hands with you by now. But no, apple wants to document every part and stay in communication with you.

The first month or so of a product release, all of Apple's engineering department, genius bar teams, etc are on high alert. They will document and replace ANYTHING found to be a defect right away because they want to analyze it and fix the issue asap at manufacturing. Thats why cases like these are always few with apple regardless of product launch.

I mean in perspective, it took HP a whole year and few months to realize their chromebooks chargers were faulty. A YEAR. Its going to take apple a month maybe at most to realize some part of the process (most likely dlc) is either being rushed and/or not cured long enough. Maybe their production samples were cured "long enough" and that testing proved to be ok, but these are literally curing and being shipped to customers asap and coming in contact with all the types of oils on our skin. This is a lot more abrasive then a few production samples that sit and get handled every now and then.

Just trust in apple to fix it and they will. If I see this issue on my watch ill be patient and i will be find because I know apple will fix it.

 

[d8b17ee5]

View attachment 558555 After reading mr.anthonyramos' post about the peeling DLC coating, I inspected the underside of my SBSS link bracelet. I'm disappointed to have noticed the same phenomenon with mine. I've been wearing it for two weeks; have not banged it up against anything. The only things the underside of the band has been exposed to has been skin, non-workout daily perspiration, and one quick rinse-off with water.

I took pictures and a video this afternoon and contacted Apple. I need to bring it into a retail store for a physical inspection and to have the defect documented by an employee. At least I now have the issue verbally documented and on file with Apple.

With the (glacial) pace this particular model has rolled out, and given that Apple is not yet up-to-speed with having pre-orders delivered, I'm not realistically expecting to have a replacement band in my possession until July, at the earliest. But, fortunately, I have Apple Care Plus with the watch, so I won't have to surrender the defective band until I have a replacement in my possession. But I do expect to get a replacement band. This -- however minor in appearance -- should not be happening with a $500 band. And it makes me apprehensive about what I might notice after two more weeks, two months, and then several months down the road with daily use.

Finally, I have to say that I'm otherwise very, very pleased with this watch. Absolutely no buyer's remorse and no regrets about being an early adopter on this. This particular watch is a real joy and a pleasure to have.

Update:
1. I called Apple Support yesterday, described the problem, got a case number.
2. I did a walk-in at my nearest retail store so an employee could take a picture and document the issue. They offered to do a possible replacement after some unnamed / unseen 3rd party inspected the band (which I would have to leave with them). If the Obsidian Order determined that it was indeed a manufacturing defect, as opposed to a cosmetic flaw of my own creation, they would have a replacement band delivered to the retail store sometime next week, which I would have to come and pick-up -- or I'd come back and pick up the defective band with a cosmetic flaw of my own creation. He explained that would be a standard return and replacement, and was not being done through Apple Care Plus, so I'd have to surrender the band. I decided to keep the band and see what Apple Care could offer. I got the clear impression that the retail stores have absolutely no idea what is going on with this issue, and consequently, had no idea how to properly respond.
3. Back to the phone with Apple Care, and while it is still clear that everyone at Apple is still scrambling behind the scenes how to handle this issue, I at least had an indication that they -- (whoever "they" are) -- have developed a protocol to deal with it. The rep had to put me on hold for a few minutes to check the procedure, but I wasn't on hold for long, and she came back with a clear idea of what needed to be done. They're going to replace the band, they going to get a replacement to me next week, and they're making sure the defective band gets shipped to engineering for inspection. I get the sense that it's an inspection, not to lay blame on the user, but to understand the problem and how to prevent it from happening again.
4. It looks like Apple is past the being-caught-off-guard-and-initial-reaction-and-confusion stage to being aware of the problem and dealing with it. They're making good on it.

 

[Sikh]

Update:
1. I called Apple Support yesterday, described the problem, got a case number.
2. I did a walk-in at my nearest retail store so an employee could take a picture and document the issue. They offered to do a possible replacement after some unnamed / unseen 3rd party inspected the band (which I would have to leave with them). If the Obsidian Order determined that it was indeed a manufacturing defect, as opposed to a cosmetic flaw of my own creation, they would have a replacement band delivered to the retail store sometime next week, which I would have to come and pick-up -- or I'd come back and pick up the defective band with a cosmetic flaw of my own creation. He explained that would be a standard return and replacement, and was not being done through Apple Care Plus, so I'd have to surrender the band. I decided to keep the band and see what Apple Care could offer. I got the clear impression that the retail stores have absolutely no idea what is going on with this issue, and consequently, had no idea how to properly respond.
3. Back to the phone with Apple Care, and while it is still clear that everyone at Apple is still scrambling behind the scenes how to handle this issue, I at least had an indication that they -- (whoever "they" are) -- have developed a protocol to deal with it. The rep had to put me on hold for a few minutes to check the procedure, but I wasn't on hold for long, and she came back with a clear idea of what needed to be done. They're going to replace the band, they going to get a replacement to me next week, and they're making sure the defective band gets shipped to engineering for inspection. I get the sense that it's an inspection, not to lay blame on the user, but to understand the problem and how to prevent it from happening again.
4. It looks like Apple is past the being-caught-off-guard-and-initial-reaction-and-confusion stage to being aware of the problem and dealing with it. They're making good on it.

This (bold part) is exactly how apple handles all new launch products. The first couple of returns with unique issues get high priority and expressed straight to corporate for engineering to look at and solve the problem at the manufacturing level so they aren't inconveniencing more customers. They do hell of a job. The problem is corporate and the retail stores get disconnected at this time cause the retail stores are suppose to follow a procedure that specifically states "during a new product launch, all returns get sent back to apple corporate ATTN engineering". Most of the genius bar members do a good job with this, but the watch being a "iOS" / wearable, the family room specialists handle this and they aren't trained on how to properly handle this so I expected things to get f'd up.

Glad its being taken care of for you.

 

[daibach]

Got my Blue Leather Loop!

 

[daibach]

Looks much more blue in different lighting!

 

[Pug72]

Looks great, thinking about one in black.

 

[daibach]

Looks great, thinking about one in black.

Yeah, I initially thought about black, but decided to go with something that would change the look completely from the black link bracelet. Planning to use the leather loop as my dress-down option!

 

[Pug72]

Makes sense.

 

[H3rman]

Just a note...if anyone with "DLC issues" is in the UK, then legally the onus is on the the retailer (Apple) to prove its not a manufacturing defect for the first 6 months of ownership! If they come back and say "no, it's your own doing" from just seeing pics and not more, then insist they take it in for RCA (Root Cause Analysis) and to provide proof it's not their fault (defect, etc). They are legally obliged to do so.

Also, I suspect that those people who do have problems with their DLC coating will be most likely due to improper preperation during the coating process. I have not fully read up on the DLC process, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that for it to adhere properly the surface of the metal HAS to be meticulously clean, and even the slightest oil, dirt, dust, etc will prevent the coating from properly adhering and hence causing these issues.

Hope everyone gets their problems sorted and that this is limited to a bad batch or something which just got contaminated after being prepped for coating, hence causing the coating to not adhere properly.

 

[TJone]

It looks like the DLC problems are occurring on the undersurface of the band. With all respect that would not bother me too much unless it seems like it's spreading to an area that is visible when worn. But Apple should still fix this problem and replace link bands upon request. I would not be concerned about it being that it is happening on the undersurface but understand why people might be.

 

[Esexx]

Yeah, I initially thought about black, but decided to go with something that would change the look completely from the black link bracelet. Planning to use the leather loop as my dress-down option!

Blue does look pretty good.

I always liked the Ceramic Panerai's with the vintage brown leather bands. So, I was thinking of getting or at least trying the brown leather loop.

Blue might be a possibility now!