Spotify Sides With Epic Games in Battle Against Apple's App Store Fees

[sirozha]

Here's the catch: the desktop/laptop software distribution system does provide more than one store for purchasing digital goods, but the prices for consumers are generally either the same or higher than for mobile. The App Store doesn't actually have a reputation for software prices that are too high. If anything, the criticism is that it doesn't support high enough prices. If you go to web sites that are run by developers for macOS and look at the prices for software, you're not going to see very many $4.99 or lower apps. They're obviously not expecting millions of customers to find their site.

Epic is not suing on behalf of consumers. Epic's argument that Apple is the monopoly when it comes to service providers on the iOS platform. The counterargument that Epic could leave the iOS platform altogether because the consumer still has a choice to access Epic services on Android is like saying that the town residents could always move to another town. This is undue hardship that doesn't counter the anti-competitive behavior established by Apple on the only app store that they allow.

Let's change my illustration a little. Say the mayor of the town is also the owner of the store. The mayor refuses to allow any other stores to come to the town. The mayor (as the store owner) sets excessive margins. When the residents file a law suit, the mayor argues that the residents can always move to another town. Will this hold in court? You be the judge.

 

[123]

What if those apps are malicious and cause great harm to Apple customers (exposing Apple to great liability)

How do you even come up with such an idiotic idea that Apple would be liable?

So, people should not be allowed to install any software on any device, console, computer, server, etc. except through Apple because Apple is the only entity in the world capable of detecting malicious software, and nobody should be able to circumvent this to prevent "great harm"?

 

[gnipgnop]

Epic is not suing on behalf of consumers.

I know. I was responding to your own post that used a consumer perspective as an argument, i.e., the "one store town". You're still trying to use that argument in your most recent post.

 

[gnipgnop]

When the residents file a law suit, the mayor argues that the residents can always move to another town. Will this hold in court? You be the judge.

What if the mayor's store is generally cheaper than the stores in other towns? Like I said, macOS provides the alternate stores that people say provide more competition, but the fact remains that prices for software on macOS are not typically cheaper than on the App Store. You can expect to pay higher prices for desktop/laptop software in general.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Imagine that. Whiny babies sticking together because they want something for free.

 

[WiiDSmoker]

30% is the gold standard. Sony, XBox, Nintendo, GameStop, Microsoft PC Store, etc. Apple is not alone.

Tell me, is it possible to buy games digitally through a different store on a PlayStation?

you’re missing the point. You can go to other stores to play games on any console.You can’t do that with Apple

 

[InnocenceMyth]

Spotify has had exactly one profitable quarter in its entire existence. They really don’t need to be chiming in on what constitutes good business practices.

 

[djphat2000]

I'm perfectly okay with Apple having their payment system and even charging 30%. What I have an issue with, and agree with Epic and Spotify on, is that Apple bans even mentioning other ways to pay from inside apps. This is an anticompetitive practice (because Apple isn't losing 30% on their own services they sell) and needs to go.

Just google this
What is the average markup on retail items?

Then let us know if Apple an or Google is overcharging.

 

[gnipgnop]

you’re missing the point. You can go to other stores to play games on any console.You can’t do that with Apple

You can go to a wide variety of brick/mortar or internet based stores to get a physical copy of a console game, but those additional choices of stores don't typically provide a better price vs the single digital store on the console. The price will either be the same or higher the vast majority of the time.

 

[sirozha]

I know. I was responding to your own post that used a consumer perspective as an argument, i.e., the "one store town". You're still trying to use that argument in your most recent post.

In that town, vegetables and fruit sold in the only store are grown by town residents. They are both providers who trade in the only allowed marketplace and the consumers in that only marketplace.

 

[Frobozz]

My son, his friends, and even myself play a LOT of Fortnite. At the core of Epic’s incredibly transparent claim is that they simply don’t want to pay the Apple Store 30% fee. It’s not an issue of quality, competition, or security. It’s not something noble that Tim Sweeney is after. It’s more money for the largest cash cow in gaming history. I don’t blame him for that, but let us all dispense with the fantasy that these are two nobles fighting over what is right. It is two sets of capitalist successes competing on legal grounds to squeeze more money out of a transaction.

Apple is absolutely right to control quality, ensure safety, and all the other noble things they do to ensure people enjoy and use their services with confidence. They do that to make more money but also to differentiate themselves from the wasteland of spyware on the Android store or the open internet. I’m sure there is significant overhead to do that. Epic would have us forget that they have their own store attempting to undercut costs of Steam and Apple to ultimately generate a new revenue. So would Spotify. So would Audible. If they charge $9.99 on their store they’re taking 30% off the top and they want to take the least off the top they can. Period. That’s all this is about. It’s not noble. They’re not fighting for anyone’s “rights.” They fighting for better margins. In most cases these savings are NOT going to be passed on to Consumers. Ask anyone using the Epic store, Steam, uPlay, Origin, GOG, etc. Most retain first-party exclusives but they rarely truly pass on savings to the dear customer. They pocket it and you chase the sales. They all basically offer the same stuff, and you have to have multiple platforms running passing of auth tokens to each other. It’s a pain in the arse. I’m a heavy user of all these platforms. I have 100’s of games in Steam alone.

Lastly- I’m all about paying for good content. I put my money where my mouth is. I’m happy to pay the game creators more of a cut on their games so we can all get better AAA titles. I’m not criticising the profit model, but I’m fairly sick of everyone pretending they’re a knight in shining armor.

 

[sirozha]

Spotify has had exactly one profitable quarter in its entire existence. They really don’t need to be chiming in on what constitutes good business practices.

Kind of like Tesla?

 

[gnipgnop]

In that town, vegetables and fruit sold in the only store are grown by town residents. They are both providers who trade in the only allowed marketplace and the consumers in that only marketplace.

Not sure what your point is. The mayor of the town can't prevent them from selling in other towns. Apple doesn't prevent app developers from selling on other platforms.

 

[sirozha]

Not sure what your point is. The mayor of the town can't prevent them from selling in other towns. Apple doesn't prevent app developers from selling on other platforms.

This is not a cut and dry case. This will be argued in courts and appealed many times. Both sides have good arguments to back their position. We shall see what happens.

 

[DNichter]

Kind of a joke to me. Apple gives you the most lucrative platform you could ask for, with the best support for developers, and you expect them to make exceptions for your company? You can argue that the 30% cut is too high if you want, but it's their store - take it or leave it.

 

[sirozha]

Kind of a joke to me. Apple gives you the most lucrative platform you could ask for, with the best support for developers, and you expect them to make exceptions for your company? You can argue that the 30% cut is too high if you want, but it's their store - take it or leave it.

Have you thought of becoming a lawyer?

 

[cocky jeremy]

you’re missing the point. You can go to other stores to play games on any console.You can’t do that with Apple

So..you can play a different console. Kind of like going to a different phone, eh?

 

[BeefCake 15]

Surprising that nobody criticizes Fortnite, PUBG, Rocket League, etc. for encouraging gambling (and in in children, no less). When you spend money on virtual box after virtual box, in the hopes it will contain something good (a "win") then that's pretty much gambling. Isn't that taxable?

There aren't any "good" people here, really.

I banned those type of games in my house exactly for that as well as stopped taking my kids to the arcades that have become mini gambling place at this point!


I stand behind Mr.Cook!

 

[canhaz]

I’ve said this multiple times: If IAP is so much better, users will gladly pay the extra $2 or $3 or whatever by choice. There are serious UX and privacy reasons to do so. Current App Store policies don’t allow for that, though; developers must pretend that IAP is the only way to pay for their service or in some cases they may be allowed to go sign-in-only.

Exactly this. People are straw-manning the argument, ie that all hell will break loose, or other app stores will emerge, if they even compromise one ounce. That's not the argument being made. It is in fact about a simple financial option to give customers the decision to pay the Apple tax or not, if they think it delivers the value.

I got hoodwinked by Apple already when signing up for YouTube Premium on my iPhone where it was more expensive only on iOS. And yes, Google or anyone else is prohibited from informing customers of this. IE They have to lie by omission. You see, Apple thinks a one time transaction convenience allows them to take 30% of revenue in perpetuity. Yes, that's totally not obscene at all and definitely pro-consumer stance :eyeroll:

That curated singular app store is great, but ya'll defending Apple to the death on this one have drunk a little too much of the koolaid.

 

[SkippyThorson]

They want to come to Apple’s home and demand what Apple does and doesn’t do in their own home.

THIS. A million and one times, this.

 

[canhaz]

If Spotify and Epic don’t want to pay the price of admission, then they can do without the Apple app store. They won’t do that, though. They want to come to Apple’s home and demand what Apple does and doesn’t do in their own home.

THIS. A million and one times, this.

And here I thought, my iPhone was mine, in my home. Silly me. That corporate boot sure is tasty though

 

[mrcloaked]

That might work.

 

[Grohowiak]

But no one is FORCED to buy an iPhone. Consumers that purchase an iPhone should be well aware that the Apple ecosystem is a closed system and all apps have to be purchased and downloaded from the Apple App Store. If a consumer doesn't like that, they are free to purchase a smart phone from a different manufacturer.

You talk about choice without realizing that this battle is exactly about the lack of freedom of choice in a growing number of "choices" that we have lol.
Ultimately it's giants fighting giants. Interesting to see what will come out of it no matter which side you stand on.

 

[kyleh22]

This was all pre-planned. Epic has been planning on this for last two weeks. They finally decided to pull the trigger and take the chance. They're standing upppp now.

at least two weeks. I'm sure it took months to make that video and draw up the lawsuits! good for Epic. Risky taking on Apple though....

 

[SkippyThorson]

And here I thought, my iPhone was mine, in my home. Silly me. That corporate boot sure is tasty though

It was, is, and will be your phone, along with the previous version of the app that was available before the publishing company violated the terms of service they originally agreed to when offering their game through the Apple App Store and Google Play Store.