Spotify Sides With Epic Games in Battle Against Apple's App Store Fees

[MacCheetah3]

But no one is FORCED to buy an iPhone. Consumers that purchase an iPhone should be well aware that the Apple ecosystem is a closed system and all apps have to be purchased and downloaded from the Apple App Store. If a consumer doesn't like that, they are free to purchase a smart phone from a different manufacturer.

This so much. Buying the iPhone was a choice with the knowledge of the closed ecosystem

Also, so do developers. They know what the costs are going in. A person needs to weigh it all out. The situation is similar to a "mom and pop shop" deciding if they want to add credit cards, PayPal, instant check verification, and the like to their payment transaction options. Is it worthwhile? If they've had/have a significant number of customers requesting or requiring such payment methods than probably, though not absolutely. It could still be a loss. Then there's also what credit cards to accept. Some, such as Discover and AMEX charge a higher fee for transactions. So, do you limit credit cards to VISA and Mastercard? Maybe. Am I saying Apple is doing no wrong or is completely justified? No. However, as has been said, this isn't a one-sided problem/fault and is based on subjective/circumstantial choice.

 

[BeatCrazy]

You can bet Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave after this. He gave the car keys to Timmy and he wrapped the car around a telephone pole and embarrassed Steve Jobs legacy in the process.


Yes, you can. What is Carplay? You can even drop a Chevy engine in a Ford and vice versa with some effort.
Just because almost no one does that anymore doesn't mean it's impossible. Hell, my Subaru used a faulty Nissan transmission!

You’re basically describing jail breaking. And CarPlay is like and official App Store for your car.

 

[robertcoogan]

The problem is not Apple forcing their rules on their store. The problem is that they prevent any other method from getting an app on a device you own and justifying it with security claims.

Who says an alternative App Store isn’t safe by default?

Who says no one needs a ******* app?

Who says no one should pay via crypto on their phone?

Who says I shouldn’t be able to use a device I bought to its full potential?

Who says it’s okay to censor some telegram groups or other in app contents bc they don’t fit the device manufacturers values which they force upon u?

Apple does.

It’s just about power and control. And they have way too much. Epics move is brilliant and I hope it changes something.

Apple keeps that walled garden in place to provide a secure, malware-free place where customers can download apps and content free of worry. That's pretty important. Allowing just anybody to install whatever they want on an iOS/macOS device is foolish. It opens up a Pandora's Box of potential problems.

Better safe than sorry. I'm sticking with the walled garden.

 

[w00master]

Company’s pay for product placement in groceries stores. To get more space, better displays, etc. they do that because it sells product. There was no App Store really for phones until iPhone came out. Game companies also paid for product placement in stores when CD and disk based games were the big thing. Apple hasn’t raised prices in their store terms in over ten years. If they allowed in game purchases out of the store, what’s the developer to give the game away for free in the App Store and then lead the customer outside the store to purchase ad ons and make 100% profit. It’s like an advertising fee. Everyone pays it. I’m just giving my opinion. I’m sure there are some problems and solutions to be had but Apple has made developers a lot of money to use their platform, gave them the tools, paid for credit processing fees etc. seems dirty to me.

THats all fine and dandy, but why is it that Apple allows for exceptions on the 30% rule then? If they were really true to their word, Apple would never provide exceptions.

But they do.

 

[Rogifan]

Netflix and Spotify were not allowed to bypass IAP. The companies simply got their users to subscribe via their website, thereby bypassing iTunes. Apple could make the problem go away by giving in, but why should it? If epic thinks they have a legitimate case, let them go all the way then. They wanted to be kicked out so they could raise a huge stink about it, so if they want their victory, I say make epic fight for it.

Sure they did. They created a whole new app category just so these apps didn’t have to offer IAP. But if Apple doesn’t need you (like they need Netflix and Spotify) it‘s too bad so sad.

For everyone bringing up the security angle...IAP only applies to digital goods so that’s a BS argument. Anything that’s not a digital good the user has to provide credit card information (or use Apple Pay if offered). It’s not about security its about money. When Jobs first announced the App Store he said they didn’t intend to make money off of it. Well that happened and once Apple execs realized how much money they were making/could make from it (and drive up those precious services revenues) that became the driving force. I mean on the last earnings call Tim Cook crowed about meeting their services revenues goal 6 months early.

 

[w00master]

If that was the only goal, then you wouldn't need an iOS device. You can get all that on an android. What would be the point to even own a different operating system?

So why allow it on the Mac then? Should I now switch to Linux? This is silly and baloney argument.

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

Company’s pay for product placement in groceries stores. To get more space, better displays, etc. they do that because it sells product. There was no App Store really for phones until iPhone came out. Game companies also paid for product placement in stores when CD and disk based games were the big thing. Apple hasn’t raised prices in their store terms in over ten years. If they allowed in game purchases out of the store, what’s the developer to give the game away for free in the App Store and then lead the customer outside the store to purchase ad ons and make 100% profit. It’s like an advertising fee. Everyone pays it. I’m just giving my opinion. I’m sure there are some problems and solutions to be had but Apple has made developers a lot of money to use their platform, gave them the tools, paid for credit processing fees etc. seems dirty to me.

I had a small software publishing company many years ago. In those days, trying to get my software into one of the large retailers was near impossible. Not to mention that they charged more than 30%. Distributers got 50% or more depending on volume. The App Store has given a lot of individuals and small companies opportunities that were previously not avalable.

 

[hot-gril]

It’s not like they wanted the Apple Payment option to be removed

Oh yes they do. That's 30%.

 

[hot-gril]

Take a second to read the complaint. Epic alleges the single option / Apple payment processing is at issue and monopolistic, not the store. I tend to agree given the law.

Look at it from the store out, not from the product down. For instance, say that a mall forced every store to use the mall's credit card processing service. That's ok because there are many malls and business/consumer choice. But now assume that the mall also makes its own product (phone?), and the only way to sell add ons for the product/phone is through its mall using its processing service.

Well, iPhones aren't dominating in market share, so whatever. Switch to Android if you don't want to deal with this nonsense.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple keeps that walled garden in place to provide a secure, malware-free place where customers can download apps and content free of worry. That's pretty important. Allowing just anybody to install whatever they want on an iOS/macOS device is foolish. It opens up a Pandora's Box of potential problems.

Better safe than sorry. I'm sticking with the walled garden.

Do you use a browser on your iOS device(s)? If so you’re out of the walled garden. The walled garden doesn’t allow porn apps but Safari doesn’t block you from loading porn websites. Is that a problem?

 

[w00master]

I had a small software publishing company many years ago. In those days, trying to get my software into one of the large retailers was near impossible. Not to mention that they charged more than 30%. Distributers got 50% or more depending on volume. The App Store has given a lot of individuals and small companies opportunities that were previously not avalable.

Yet Apple continues to give exceptions. Why are you fine with that? Im not. Either Apple should be consistent and to their policies or they should change. Pick one Apple

 

[russell_314]

You do realize you shot your own argument in the foot with that statement...

Of course because that makes perfect sense sure OK sure

 

[w00master]

Well, iPhones aren't dominating in market share, so whatever. Switch to Android if you don't want to deal with this nonsense.

Oh come now. This is a load of nonsense. This suddenly absolves Apple to their behavior?

And again, why does Apple give exceptions to some but not others? If Apple was actually true to their word on that so-called 30%, they wouldn't give exceptions, but yet they do.

Pick one Apple

 

[Salvor Hardin]

As much as I dislike Apple’s practices this was clearly a premeditated setup by Epic with possibly Spotify and the like involved and it’s cowardly for them not to admit this. I also find it despicable that the trap for this involves not being able to milk microtransactions primarily from children as much as Epic would like.

 

[w00master]

As much as I dislike Apple’s practices this was clearly a premeditated setup by Epic with possibly Spotify and the like involved and it’s cowardly for them not to admit this. I also find it despicable that the trap for this involves not being able to milk microtransactions primarily from children as much as Epic would like.

I don't. Loving it. Apple should be called out

 

[hot-gril]

Oh come now. This is a load of nonsense. This suddenly absolves Apple to their behavior?

And again, why does Apple give exceptions to some but not others? If Apple was actually true to their word on that so-called 30%, they wouldn't give exceptions, but yet they do.

Pick one Apple

It does absolve them. You can dislike how a company does something, but if you have viable alternatives, why are you staying if you dislike it so much?

I agree they're not being true to their word about this. Spotify really deserves the exemption if Netflix gets it. The enforcement is really selective in my personal experience as a past iOS dev too.

 

[XXPP]

I removed spotify from my devices.

 

[w00master]

It does absolve them. You can dislike how a company does something, but if you have viable alternatives, why are you staying if you dislike it so much?

Why should one policy dictate my purchasing decisions and why are you trying to make them for me? Apple has changed before (remember when they used to NOT allow Spotify?). They can change (and should) again.

Again, explain why does Apple give exceptions yet they claim to be "consistent" with their policy?

 

[kyjaotkb]

Exactly. The chinese communist party may be behind this publicity stunt.

...That’s not what I meant

 

[robertcoogan]

Apple, the way out of this, allow side loading of apps. And before ANYONE brings up "Web Apps" not even remotely close as a valid option. Macs offer side loading. iOS should too.

And that will open the door to malware. Better leave the App Store secure, just the way it is. The issue here is Apple's fee system.

 

[w00master]

And that will open the door to malware. Better leave the App Store secure, just the way it is. The issue here is Apple's fee system.

So, explain the Mac. Thanks

THis is a baloney argument. Apple has done fine with allowing side loading of apps on the Mac for years. Absolutely zero reasons not to allow this for iOS.

 

[jgdeschamps]

Why not? Is Walmart entitled to 50% of every purchase? Amazon?

You do know that what Walmart does is set up store shelves, and tell manufacturers "Get your product on my shelves, I'll pay nothing to you until the product is paid for at the prices I say, so you will have to adjust your prices and all kinds of costs to my needs, earnings and market analysis as well as seasonal package promotions ideas, and you as a producer/manufacturer will sacrifice earnings when compared to other outlets because I offer worldwide bulk sales due to my physical space resources. You will also have to set up factories that follow my standards and near my stores so product distribution is fast. Oh, and if a product doesn't sell, you will have to come and pick up your crap off my stores, at no cost for me."
And believe it or not, manufacturers agree to those terms as long as they can sell products on a massive distribution chain. App Store doesn't sound so bad for intangible goods, right?

 

[hot-gril]

Why should one policy dictate my purchasing decisions and why are you trying to make them for me?

Again, explain why does Apple give exceptions yet they claim to be "consistent" with their policy?

Sorry, I forget if I ninja edited, but Apple isn't consistent at all. You decide what to buy. I'm ticked off by the removal of the headphone jack, that's why I have an iPhone 6S.
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So, explain the Mac. Thanks

THis is a baloney argument. Apple has done fine with allowing side loading of apps on the Mac for years. Absolutely zero reasons not to allow this for iOS.

The Mac is a far less successful product, always has been.

 

[w00master]

Sorry, I forget if I ninja edited, but Apple isn't consistent at all. You decide what to buy.

And that's the point. That's why so many app devs are complaining. Lack of consistency. Apple claims to be consistent with anyone which is absolute lie. Either be consistent as Apple claims or don't and change. Pick one.
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Sorry, I forget if I ninja edited, but Apple isn't consistent at all. You decide what to buy. I'm ticked off by the removal of the headphone jack, that's why I have an iPhone 6S.
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The Mac is a far less successful product, always has been.

So what. That's absolutely not an excuse. Also, (using the defense of Apple by others here) iOS doesn't dominate any market. Remember that line?

It's a BS excuse. Period

 

[derekamoss]

Spotify should remove their app from the App Store immediately to show their support of Epic Games.

I would agree with you other than spotify is also paying royalties and removing the app would affect the artists as well. And that's another thing people don't take into account. Both Apple and spotify pay royalties so add the 30% to that for spotify and not Apple which does make it harder for spotify to thrive.