Spotify Sides With Epic Games in Battle Against Apple's App Store Fees

[BigSur]

The obvious thing here is that it’s not just ‘Epic’ or ‘Spotify’ taking a stand against Apple. It’s two companies partly controlled by Tencent. It doesn’t seem to be talked about much.

Exactly. The chinese communist party may be behind this publicity stunt.

 

[ioioos]

Surprising that nobody criticizes Fortnite, PUBG, Rocket League, etc. for encouraging gambling (and in in children, no less). When you spend money on virtual box after virtual box, in the hopes it will contain something good (a "win") then that's pretty much gambling. Isn't that taxable?

There aren't any "good" people here, really.

I guess you are criticising a game you've never played. Fortnight doesn't have any form of loot box / gambling and any costume purchases give no in-game advantage.

 

[alex2792]

I dream of having an alternative store with torrent clients, alternative browsers and emulators. That would exponentially increase the value of iOS devices.

 

[Rogifan]

The sharks have smelled the blood in the water.

But they will not find Apple such easy prey.

Until governments get involved in force Apple to do things that will probably be worse than what Apple could do on its own. Apple could easily solve this by allowing apps to bypass IAP like they do with Netflix and Spotify or allowing apps to offer their own IAP alongside Apple’s.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Why the **** is Apple entitled to a 30% cut when Epic is using their own payment processing service? Tim Apple’s 10th yacht fund?

Distribution costs for one. Servers aren't free. Reviewers aren't free. Getting your app distributed IN CHINA goes through an entire separate CDN network (which Google Play doesn't even do since they don't exist in China). These services make it easy for users to download YOUR app, growing your user base much more. This is among a bunch of other services Apple provides its developers for free (Apple Maps, CloudKit, CoreML/CreateML/ARKit frameworks to name a few)

There's a reason why App Store apps make more money than Android counterparts, despite Android having 80% global marketshare.

BTW, Tim Sweeney's net worth is 5 TIMES Tim Cook's net worth. You're essentially arguing for Tim Sweeney's 50th yacht fund.

 

[badatusernames]

I'm perfectly okay with Apple having their payment system and even charging 30%. What I have an issue with, and agree with Epic and Spotify on, is that Apple bans even mentioning other ways to pay from inside apps. This is an anticompetitive practice (because Apple isn't losing 30% on their own services they sell) and needs to go.

Exactly. I have no issue with Apple charging their fees to be on their store. That’s fine and good and even fair. My issue is that they should allow developers to distribute directly to their customers using their own infrastructure. Many of us have Macs and a I’m willing to bet you have an app on your computer that isn’t on the Mac App Store and or can’t be on the Mac App Store.

 

[KENPHOTO]

No it's not. If most of your target customers are on the iPhone, and want to help those customers, then you can't just force them to switch to Android. They have a right to your products and benefits too.

You are missing the point here. Apple's App Store closed garden policy has been in place since the first iPhone launched well over a decade ago. Anyone that chooses to purchase an iPhone should be well aware that it is a closed garden system and that all apps need to be downloaded in the App Store. Apple does not even come close to having a majority or smartphone market share, so a consumer can CHOOSE to buy a phone from a different manufacturer if they don't like the way Apple does business.

 

[Zackmd1]

I agree 30% is steep. I would be more inclined to say 20%, but remember that is for the first year. Its 15% after that. Most products don't make the lion's share of their profit in the first year because it takes time for them to get well know. Only companies like Spotify or Epic who have hype over products before they launch will see it truly affect their bottom line the first year. and remember this isn't a purchase, its a service. It's like a masseuse going into a resort and saying "I'm going to do massages for your resort guests in your lobby that people will pay for, but you don't get anything for it."

If these companies were smart, they would just follow Apples rules, then do what every other company does; create a non-profit coop ad campaign that educates people on the need to "support developers" not "big business" by subscribing to services from their own sights. It worked for Johnson and Johnson, Coca-cola, Bacon, etc.

Apple apparently bans the ability to even mention other ways to subscribe. Now of course this is just one perspective, but Luke from LMG paints a pretty crappy picture of the app review process and issues with requiring the use of Apples payment API.

 

[jole]

> Manufacturer advertising on the retail packaging a sale of 50% off retail price if you buy it directly from the manufacturer instead at Walmart where you did see the product. And when Walmart takes the product off the shelves, Manufacturer suing Walmart.

Walmart wouldn't sell if the package had ads undercutting them... It would be removed from the store

Precisely. Apple now stopped selling EPIC package when they started to advertise this

 

[MacCheetah3]

I gotta agree with Epic Games and Spotify on this one. Apple’s demands are quite extreme. They need to loosen their policies and stop demanding such a large chunk of the profits. Apple can still make lots of money without being so extreme.

Also, consumers have the right to install software on their own devices, from wherever they please. Can you imagine if Apple started forcing Mac users to only install apps from the Mac App Store? That would be disastrous. Yet that’s exactly what they’ve been getting away with on iOS all this time. It’s a dang shame.

I do agree that Apple needs to come to a realization but the (big) problem is culture, especially being a U.S. company. "One size fits all" doesn't work and Apple is aware, which is why they've made exceptions. However, the exceptions typically reserved to entities of great power or otherwise the most beneficial to Apple. I think, a good step would be for Apple not to abondon what they've done rather attempt to be more objective with policies -- again, I know, extremely difficult for (most) company execs.

 

[KENPHOTO]

i tried a lot of android devices and apples overall build and software quality together with their ecosystem, AirPods and the watch is just better. I’m fine with Apple charging whatever they want on their store. There should just be another store to choose from so that I as a user have some choice.

You had a choice. You chose to purchase an iPhone knowing that all apps have to be downloaded from the Apple App Store. You answered your own question, buy stating that "apples overall build and software quality". If apps did not have to go through Apple's App Store, then who know what sort of "quality" you would get in your apps.

 

[HudsonSteele]

I dream of having an alternative store with torrent clients, alternative browsers and emulators. That would exponentially increase the value of iOS devices.

If that was the only goal, then you wouldn't need an iOS device. You can get all that on an android. What would be the point to even own a different operating system?

 

[KENPHOTO]

Distribution costs for one. Servers aren't free. Reviewers aren't free. Getting your app distributed IN CHINA goes through an entire separate CDN network (which Google Play doesn't even do since they don't exit in China). These services make it easy for users to download YOUR app, growing your user base much more. This is among a bunch of other services Apple provides its developers for free (Apple Maps, CloudKit, CoreML/CreateML/ARKit frameworks to name a few)

There's a reason why App Store apps make more money than Android counterparts, despite Android having 80% global marketshare.


AND BY THE WAY. Tim Sweeney's net worth is 5 TIMES Tim Cook's net worth.

I am an iOS and Android developer. I make 5 times as much from iOS as I do with Android. I have no problem whatsoever paying Apple 30% of the purchase price of my app. I have priced the app accordingly to factor the App Store's fee.

 

[fbr$]

If a product/subscription was going to cost $7, but due to the Apple fee it costs $10, then it's a huge +42.85% price increase.

Apple plays with maths: the inverse of -30% is indeed +42.85%, not +30%.

 

[buckwheet]

They're not. They get 30% for the initial subscription, then 15% after that. Honestly, I do think the fees are too high, at this point—they were more justified when the App Store was new, and needed to get a foothold with users (which took significant investment, for sure)—but I also agree with other posters in this thread who've pointed out that companies like Epic and Spotify will eventually bitch about lower fees as well.
What I find a bit amusing about all this is that Epic and Spotify are both pretending to be fighting for their customers. Total crap; they're all in it for the bottom-line, and that means milking the customers for as much as they can get. We already know where the Chief Douchebag at Spotify stands on the creators who earn his money for him:

Billionaire Spotify CEO Wants Musicians to Work Harder, Stop Complaining About Streaming Royalties

“You can’t record music once every three to four years and think that’s going to be enough.”

hypebeast.com

Anyone who thinks Epic and Spotify are "the good guys" needs to pull their head out and take a breath of something other than their own netherwinds.

 

[LeadingHeat]

If that were true, Apple would have been taken to court decades ago. Along with countless other computer manufacturers.

I’m not saying they’d win in court, but I could see it at least getting filed. After all, they have to have someone to blame, it can’t be their fault. /s

 

[Wildkraut]

Love it! Both are doing good....

 

[Abazigal]

Until governments get involved in force Apple to do things that will probably be worse than what Apple could do on its own. Apple could easily solve this by allowing apps to bypass IAP like they do with Netflix and Spotify or allowing apps to offer their own IAP alongside Apple’s.

Netflix and Spotify were not allowed to bypass IAP. The companies simply got their users to subscribe via their website, thereby bypassing iTunes. Apple could make the problem go away by giving in, but why should it? If epic thinks they have a legitimate case, let them go all the way then. They wanted to be kicked out so they could raise a huge stink about it, so if they want their victory, I say make epic fight for it.

 

[Dremmel]

For God's sake, Apple's take on the App store is not 30% in perpetuity. It's 30% for the *first* year, after which it is 15%. If you think that's gouging, trying building it yourself. Oh, and Google's store takes 30% too, without the robust oversight that Apple provides.

It's 30% every year except for subscriptions.

 

[KENPHOTO]

I disagree. Its more like, a customer comes into a store, says "I need your store to provide a service people are going to pay me for but you don't get anything." That is literally what they are requesting.

I don't think that person realises that most shopping malls stores actually have to pay the shopping mall a percentage of their sales as part of their rent......

 

[alex2792]

If that was the only goal, then you wouldn't need an iOS device. You can get all that on an android. What would be the point to even own a different operating system?

Because I prefer the integration offered by Apple? Having to switch phone platforms just to get a simple app is pretty retarded.

 

[Seoras]

Problem is they can't because there's no other way to make your app available on iOS.

To be clear, I think it's fine for Apple to decide what can and can't go on the App Store. But equally they shouldn't restrict users from installing apps from outside the app store.

I couldn't disagree more. The focus here is too much on Apple's 30%. I don't really care about it, I'm an end user.
I do care about the security of my Apple devices. I trust them for banking etc.
If you can load any app onto your iOS device, like you can on Windoze, Android etc, then you are making it easier for anyone else to do likewise. How well did that work on those platforms?
I really hope Apple aren't forced to crack open iOS because I only see this Anti-trust BS as nothing other than another attempt by the states of the world to get in.
If there are forced to open it up I hope Apple empowers the user by asking them, when they setup their new device, if they want the locked down iOS we all know and trust, or if they want an open system which can't be guaranteed secure.
I'd guess that 99.99% of users pick the iOS status quo.

 

[ouimetnick]

If Spotify and Epic don’t want to pay the price of admission, then they can do without the Apple app store. They won’t do that, though. They want to come to Apple’s home and demand what Apple does and doesn’t do in their own home.

That’s fine, so give them away to allow users to install their apps on iOS with out the App Store. Already can do it using the Macintosh, why not iOS?

 

[armandxp]

Company’s pay for product placement in groceries stores. To get more space, better displays, etc. they do that because it sells product. There was no App Store really for phones until iPhone came out. Game companies also paid for product placement in stores when CD and disk based games were the big thing. Apple hasn’t raised prices in their store terms in over ten years. If they allowed in game purchases out of the store, what’s the developer to give the game away for free in the App Store and then lead the customer outside the store to purchase ad ons and make 100% profit. It’s like an advertising fee. Everyone pays it. I’m just giving my opinion. I’m sure there are some problems and solutions to be had but Apple has made developers a lot of money to use their platform, gave them the tools, paid for credit processing fees etc. seems dirty to me.

 

[HudsonSteele]

Apple apparently bans the ability to even mention other ways to subscribe. Now of course this is just one perspective, but Luke from LMG paints a pretty crappy picture of the app review process and issues with requiring the use of Apples payment API.

I didn't say to advertise on device. When bacon was in the toilet because doctors were saying it was unhealthy, all of the sudden ads on tv started pushing "pork, the other white meat" because white meat was considered healthy. Advertised bacon. Its been done with eggs, cheese, etc. You will see ads on tv for eggs with no business tied to them. its because they are a "non-profit" spreading a message any way they can. Its what got Marijuana banned. Simple ad campaigns